today. ♪ all right, baby. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ imus in the morning ♪ ♪

>> you know, disaster relief was something that you didn't play games with, but now in this current atmosphere everything is the subject of oneupsmanship. and for the political game and it's why the american people hate congress. it's why they hate them. stuart: awe, the fight over sandy relief. three sides to the outrage. why hasn't congress acted? why is the pibill so stuffed wi pork? and why is it loaded like a christmas tree? that's the news, new york, new jersey and others will get money, the fight, that's laid bare america's fundamental problem. even with trillion dollar deficits congress can't put limits on its spending so we may get another downgrade. ratings agencies repeated the warning because we can't get a grip on spending and debt and

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>> here it is, the big story of the day, a big fight in congress over aid for victims of hurricane sandy, lots of outrage all around after that 60 billion dollar relief bill did not go up for a vote in the house. here is today's news. speaker boehner says he'll hold a vote on friday with a 9 million dollar deal for flood payment insurance and 51 billion promised by january 15th. new jersey's governor chris christie, he was absolutely furious yesterday, putting the blame for the delay squarely on john boehner. >> there's only one group to blame for the continued suffering of these innocent

victims, the house majority and their speaker, john boehner. stuart: right, well, while christie and others are outraged for boehner and others for pulling the bill, there is outrage because the bill is flat-out stuffed with pork, it's almost comical. a couple of examples of pork in the senate bill, that is. 600 million dollars for the epa to support climate change issues. 150 million dollars for alaskan, repeat, alaskan fisheries, 336 million dollars for expenses related to amtrak, they only asked for 30 million they're getting 336. and finally 2 million dollars to repair a room at one of the smithsonian buildings in washington d.c. that is a loaded christmas tree, if ever i saw one. more on the story coming up in just a couple of minutes. we're going to be joined by new jersey congressman, and should the house have voted on the sandy bill and given them the

money with the pork? tell us what you think on facebook, please, we may reach some of the comments later on this program. now, the patriotic millionaires, remember them? they got their wish, they will pay more tax thanks to the fiscal cliff deal. they're claiming victory, they wanted millionaires, they wanted to pay more tax. question, are they ready to write a check straight to the government? you remember this? >> did you bring your checkbook. >> i don't have my checkbook. >> will you write a check to the government and pay them voluntarily. >> taxes are not a voluntary process. >> his answer is no, but he's coming up in the next hour, is he happy now that he will be paying more in taxes and i'll challenge him again at 10:35 this morning. fallout from the fiscal cliff deal. two warnings about america's debt. we may be talking downgrade again everybody. plus, a record number of people

apply for gun permits in december. both of those stories after the opening bell, which is next. and of course, frank pallone, on the sandy fight. i'll ask him now, why so much pork in the bill? this is $100,000. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back. th didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally.

imus: >> thursday morning, every thursday morning at 8:30, you get the weekly jobless claims number. this morning was negative. 372,000, lining up for unemployment benefits, 372,000. last week, 350,000, and it was revised to 362. you get the story, 372 is a bad numbbr, that's not an economy that's enjoying a robust

recovery and numbers from adp, private sector employment grew by 215,000 in the month of december, but manufacturing lost 11,000 jobs, so, you wrap it all up, and when you combine it with potential down grades of our credit rating here in america, then you're looking at a rather negative economic back drop to the start of today's trading. plus of course, we're up 300 yesterday. you can expect a bit of a pullback today. that's what we're getting in the very early going. the opening trend, you've got to say is pretty flat. we're down just a couple of points. now, ladies and gentlemen, i have news for you out of north korea, yes, north korea. sources tell the associated press that google's eric schmidt is getting ready to visit. he's going as part of a private humanitarian mission led by former new mexico governor bill richardson, could be travelling there economic growth through technology? we're not expecting a stark reaction, but let's bring in

nicole. will kim jong un be being searches in pyong yang. >> it's very interesting, they're going to pyong yang, for what reason? the country is closed off. we'll start to learn more i'm sure the next month or so, but obviously, a closed off country that he's exploring here and i'm sure his visit there, the visit is sure to gain some publicity there and here. so we'll see what the visit is really all about. we don't know when it is, it's so secretive. stuart: i wonder if it's a quiet piece of diplomacy, eric is a good friend of president obama's and-- >> i like it. stuart: how often do you get financial news, technology news out of north korea? not very often, i expect. nicole, thank you very much indeed. the dow down 21 points, just below 13-4, okay? a modest, very modest down side

move after the big rally yesterday. now, this, background checks for guns hit a high in december and truly astonishing number. the fbi conducted 2.8 million background checks last month. 2.8 million. some of those for the purchase of multiple weapons. 2.8 million. 49% higher than in december of 2011. now, look at gun stocks, please. we've got smith & wesson. $8.56 a share. not much movement this morning. and sturm and ruger the same and the gun stocks, the past year i should say. let's get past outrageous relief for hurricane sandy, and the house not voting on the 60 billion dollar package passed by the state. the problem with it, it's loaded with pork and gives millions of dollars to a whole raft of things other than hurricane relief. with more, let's bring in congressman frank pallone, a democrat from new jersey. great to have you with us on the

show. >> thank you. stuart: now, we understand the outrage that you haven't got the help that you want and need. we've got that. but my question is, why was this senate bill so loaded with items that appear to have nothing to do with sandy at all? because that is a source of outrage elsewhere in the country. so, my question is, why the pork, congressman? >> well, i don't know what they mean by pork. i mean, i know that some people were concerned about the fisheries disaster aid. they thought that you know, why do we have fisheries disaster aid, but, for example, i have fishing ports where they've had their fish processing plants destroyed and their boats destroyed so that's important. stuart: but it was 150 million dollars for fisheries in alaska, 600 million dollars for climate change for the epa, 338 million, i think, it was, to amtrak. 2 million dollars to repair one roof or one room at smithsonian. you know, the people object to that because we're a trillion

dollars in debt every year, they want to know, why can't we have a bill that addresses those people who are victims, and that's it? that would have passed? >> i would say the same thing, in other words, you talk about amtrak, but there was major damage to amtrak in the northeast corridor and you talked about the alaska fisheries, well, that may not have been for this particular storm, but it was another fisheries disaster related you know, natural disaster event that occurred, i think, you know a few months ago, so every one of these things is linked to either hurricane sandy or other natural disasters that have occurred and i think that the bottom line is, in every case, it's something that's important for relief in the aftermath of the hurricane. so, at this point the main thing we're concerned about is the fact that there's been no movement at all on this legislation and if it had passed yesterday or the day before in the old congress, we would be on the way to rebuilding the jersey

shore. now, we're just sitting here waiting and it may be weeks before we get any kind of relief which is really unfortunate and deplorable. you know, my constituents-- >> can we say no to anything or anybody in america today? and if we do say-- >> i don't want to say-- >> if i were a congressman and i said, no, i'm sorry, new jersey and new york you're not going to get 600 million dollars for climate change in the epa. i would be-- >> i'm sure that's related to -- look, i'm sure that's related to it as well. stuart: but can we afford it congressman? we're a trillion dollars in debt, can we afford this? >> it's not fair to say that we in new jersey and new york can't afford to have the federal government provide relief in the aftermath of the hurricane when in kind of relief has been given to people in new orleans after katrina and tornado alley in the country. we pay a lot of money to the federal government and i have people that don't have housing and towns that are going to have to raise taxes because they haven't gotten the reimbursement

from the federal government. i have shore protection and dune restoration if it doesn't take place very soon, if another flood comes, there's going to be more damage to the towns. so, i really feel right now that it's the federal government's responsibility to come together on a bipartisan way and pass this bill so that my constituents get some relief, i mean, you've seen the damage that we've suffered. >> i've been in new jersey. i'm a taxpayer in new jersey, i've got it. i've got two numbers for you, when hurricane andrew just really hit hard in florida, the relief bill that congress passed was 7 billion dollars. 7 billion. the total budget for the state of new jersey for one year is 30 billion. now we have a relief package for 60 billion. primarily for new jersey and new york. it seems like the amount of money is so vast that there has to be full debate on it and it should not be passed real fast.

>> we haven't had the debate. stuart: why not? >> the speaker wouldn't bring the bill up. all we asked was that the speaker bring the bill up on the floor and we have debate in as part of the democratic process and have a vote on the amendment, up or down vote and we were never given that. the speaker never brought the bill to the floor and that's not fair to my constituents who, you know, are suffering, frankly, that they don't have a full and fair debate. we didn't ask for anything else other than it be brought to the floor and that we have the debate and we have a vote and we have not had that opportunity. and that's not fair in a democratic system. stuart: our democratic system is running a trillion dollars a year deficit. you know that. >> i do. >> 60 billion, congressman, 60 billion dollars. >> i'm sorry, it's all documented and this is a natural disaster and i think that the federal government and both democrats and republicans have

an obligation to bring this to the floor and have a debate. if there are those who don't like it, they can vote no, but we never had that opportunity and that's not fair in this system, particularly in the aftermath of such a horrific event. stuart: congressman frank pallone, we appreciate you being with us, and we appreciate the situation you are in. appreciate it. >> thank you. stuart: okay, sir. congress finally reached a deal on the fiscal cliff which means more taxes for you. no spending cuts and it puts the national debt up 3.9 trillion over the next ten years, i think it will be more than that. that's not all. moody's and s&p both say the agreement was not enough to cut the deficit and if congress doesn't act fast, another downgrade could come. okay? that's another cliff that we're facing. at ten o'clock this morning, totally different story. japan, it has the most extreme demographics of any society in recorded human history. had a growing older population, a shrinking younger generation, now the number of births hits a

record low, that will be a very interesting story and it's new for you at 10. also coming up the top of the hour, the fiscal cliff deal is done, no spending cuts, in fact, turns out congress is doubling down again on wind energy. billions in tax breaks for the industry, find out how much 10 a.m. eastern this morning. watch out, cable companies. forbes i should say, forbes is reporting that intel is getting ready to offer people the ability to subscribe to individual channels. nicole, we call intel a door stopper stock, never goes anywhere. >> and yesterday it was higher. it's pulling back a little bit today. you're talking to develop internet-based tv service and this could seriously be competition to cable companies, to the idea of apple tv. it's only in its development stages, but this will be something interesting to follow for intel, completely different

than now. >> i figure the cable operators lose if this happens and i guess the content providers-- i'm trying to work out the winners and losers on that one, i'm not sure i can do it. i need some help. thank you very much indeed. the dow is off 42 points now after a 300 point rally yesterday. i've got seven early movers for you, thursday morning, unilever agrees to sell skippy peanut put tower hormel forwards and hormel is up on that one. and reports that the gap will buy the fashion boutique intermix. and costco reports better than expected rise in december sales. costco, of course, they pay that special dividend to avoid this year's high tax rates. data storage company, melnox expects less money to come in, it's down, way down. biogen's lou gehrig's disease,

and it's down. target, that stock is up. family dollar posted lori than expected and family dollar is down big. it's off, what's that 12%? that's down significantly. all right. we've got more and more people, they think the best days in america are behind us. but according to john stossel, there is still reason to be optimistic, it actually has to do with freedom. he's next.

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that's compared to december of the previous year. the stock, a-- that's not a modest gain that's fractional, 3 cents higher, 13 bucks a share on ford. americans, we are more and more pessimistic about the future, yes, we are. the latest gallup poll shows half of us believe that the country's best days are behind us. things seem rather bleak. however, there are some positives when it comes to freedom in the new year, with more on that, here is john stossel. the host of stossel which appears here on fox business on thursday evenings. i want to hear good things about freedom, for a change. enhanced freedom in 2013? >> well, it's a folly to predict 2013. but we're rightly talking about the horrible things happening and the new rules, but the animal spirits of capitalism and the invent tiffness of innovators get around that and we tend to forget that. think about things like ebay.

i'm a consumer reporter. i say, you can't have total strangers telling each other stuff over the internet and shifting money through paypal, whatever. then there'll be all kinds of scams, you have to have government regulate that and yet, ebay self-regulated before the government could get in and kill them. wikipedia did the same thing. how can you have an encyclopedia without central controls? it's hugely popular like the fifth biggest website in the world after just five years, without government. so, things do happen outside. stuart: so you're saying technology enhances our freedom because it gets on with the business of getting people involved before government can get involved? >> before they get there. and the next scary version is robots. robots will soon be smart enough to build new robots. now-- >> what's the word on freedom with robots? you say that's more freedom or what? >> it's more freedom if we

basically merge with the robots and we get artificial body parts and live longer and more comfortable lives and we're smarter, it's less freedom if the robots decide they don't need us, and they kill us, which is possible, too. stuart: you're not forecasting that now, are you? >> a lot of the people who do study this do forecast that. stuart: really? all right. let's move swiftly on shall we? what's this about an anonymous currency used on the internet which is real freedom, go. >> it's called bid coin and paypal had the idea, but paypal had the central control that the government could sit on. bid coin has no central-- it's on a thousand anonymous computers and allows people to buy currencies, which you're not allowed to do in america, and also guns or drugs and you can say that's a terrible thing, and yet, it's freedom. stuart: so, it's untraceable, i can run up an account on bid

coin, as you say. >> and the government can't-- you still have to have an address if you're going to take delivery of the guns, the government could follow you there and arrest you if you're buying illegal. the bid coin itself is independent of government. stuart: you say that's enhancement of freedom. >> it is. stuart: i guess it is, but it's the opportunity to be illegal, isn't it? >> yes, since they're passing a thousand new laws every week, every month, then-- >> why do you always equate illegality with freedom? >> well, i wouldn't say always because we need rule of law to keep order and to make us safe, but when government wants every day to tell us you can't eat this, you can't drink this, that's being outside that, that's part of individual freedom. it's key to the dignity of the individual is what life should be about. stuart: i want to digress for a second and tell everybody what's on your show tonight. and i want your opinion on the sandy relief bill, 60 billion dollars.

you heard my interview with representative pallone, what do you think? >> i'm glad that you pushed pallone. it's disgusting. it's give me this, i'm entitled to t election year, emergency aid, it's always gone up. we can't afford that. stuart: we can't say no, can we? if you say no you can't get elected. >> so we're going to go broke. stuart: the show is called stossel? >> it is, nine o'clock tonight. stuart: and the subject is freedom 2.0. >> freedom 2.0. stuart: a good one. appreciate it. and coming up on 9:50, we give you the gold report every single day. 1,679 an ounce and we're down 9.50 this morning. it could be an inconvenient truth for former vice-president and nobel prize winner al gore. current tv being sold, he owns it, part of it. he's selling it to al-jazeera because he couldn't get the deal done in time he'll be paying

much more in taxes. inconvenient? elizabeth macdonald and charles payne are here and you don't want to miss their reaction on the tale of two al's next. ♪

>> al gore is selling current tv to al-jazeera. saying he sold it it for 500 million to win 100 million for himself. the former vice-president missed out on a bigger pay day. they were rushing before the 31 to avoid the higher taxes when he did the deal. charles, what am i missing in the story. charles: you've got it, the

typical hypocrisy, raise taxes on everybody, but not on me. i think an interesting tidbit, beck, his company tried to buy them last year. and interesting thing, apparently someone said that current, the legacy, they want to sell it to the legacy of the network, it's important that whoever it goes to they sort of share the same point of view saying that glenn beck, the american did not share their point of view, but apparently al-jazeera does. stuart: very interesting. >> that's the comment, but reports indicate that the co-owner of current tv al-jazeera had the same goals as we had for current and giving voice to those, and this is the videos of osama bin laden after the 9/11 attacks and by the way, time warner has reportedly dropped current tv. and this is a big deal. a big story for today. >> what happens to keith

olbermann. >> he's out. stuart: i was one of his ten worst people in the world. charles: one night i heard him saying he felt bad, stu used to be a good guy. stuart: i knew him 30 years ago, a long, long time-- he felt bad you fell off the rail. stuart: i was never on the rail, baby. not that rail. >> is that when you lived in san space fran. what about joy behar? >> yeah and eliot spitzer. stuart: are they going-- >> it's remarkable. stuart: i'm glad we've got it. your taxes, they're going up. thanks to the fiscal cliff deal, but oh, the wind industry gets to keep 12 billion dollars worth of subsidies, we'll talk an environmentalist about this. a very interesting story, the population crisis in japan keeps getting worse, new numbers showing an aging country, more old people than young people, far more. bad for the economy, got new

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stuart: new at 10:00, 12.1 billion dollars in the fiscal cliff deal for subsidies for the wind industry. your taxes are going up for the wind industry gets billions. more on that. also new at 10:00, japan's population drops by 212,000 last year, that's a record drop. more old people than young. it is a population and economic crisis. we have you up-to-date on this one. check the big boards, down 29 points right now after that 300 point rally yesterday. and here's our company to discuss it all this thursday morning: elizabeth macdonald, charles payne, nicole petallides. she's on the floor of the new york stock exchange. first to nicole, family dollar, now, why is it such a big loser? >> when you come out with quarterly profits that disappoint analysts in wall

street overall you get a move like this one. this is quite a volatile day for family dollar stores, down about 13%. number one loser in the s&p 500. so i don't know if the folks are just not hitting the stores, but with a -- i have to tell you we have to watch a lot of retailers. i've been hearing a lot of sales numbers we're expecting to hear for december may not be as good as many hoped. stuart: i hear the same thing. another sign of a pretty weak economy as 2012 finished out and we get into 2013. keep your eye on it. thank you very much nicole. let's get to the big story of the day, outrage in congress after a big fight over aid to victims of hurricane sandy. after shelving a 60 billion dollars relief bill, house speaker john boehner will hold a vote tomorrow on a smaller 9 billion dollars deal which mostly covers payments for flood insurance. let's go to you first liz because you have covered the story. here's my position, let's see if you agree with it, yeah, get some relief money, but don't

load up the bill with ridiculous amounts of pork because this country cannot afford it, and you say what? liz: i say i agree with you. it is turning into a pork storm. it slows down the relief that's needed for the people in the area that was hit by hurricane sandy, which is about the size of western europe. we saw this with hurricane katrina too, stuart. katrina turned into a big thing for government bureaucrats who instead of cleaning out the debris from the hurricane cleaned out taxpayers wallets for things like laptops new soccer balls. we saw that katrina. time and again, this is the way -- what happens when you nationalize disasters. stuart: now we can't afford it. we can't do this. charles, this shows us america's fundamental problem. you can't say no to anybody. you can't have a spending bill in congress which is not loaded up with goodies for somebody in alaska or texas so that they will vote for the bill. charles: right. i think you can't say no just no and leave it at that.

i think you have to say no with an explanation. stuart: i will go for that. charles: you know, here's my problem, i think they should have stayed a couple extra hours and told the public listen, e with want to put -- we want to put something through. the way it was put out in the media, i think yesterday the thing with chris christie was really -- it's not just that he threw john boehner under a bus he threw the entire party under the bus. liz: what did he say? charles: he said we have people suffering in new jersey and there's only one person or entity responsible, the majority of the house -- here's the thing, this is the second time in a row -- nothing about the abysmal response by the obama administration. why are people suffering? why has the response been so awful? why has the response katrina like when bush got all kinds of criticism? all of a sudden one person is at fault. liz: it's worse than katrina. at least that area got the money two weeks after that hurricane

hit. we're now more than a month and counting. this is being called, you know, call it the no politician left behind act, that's the issue. stuart: two months after sandy hit, a lot of those people are still suffering, okay, we've got that. why? is it because the money hasn't come through from washington? or is it the abysmal performance of fema? who is it? liz: it's both. here's the thing that broadens the perspective, don't nationalize disasters. have the locals handle the money. they know where the money is needed, boots on the ground. charles: definitely. new jersey and new york has to send so much money to d.c. in the first place. this is my problem, i don't get it. i don't get how this has become -- okay, it was boehner. if he took on boehner, that would be one thing but to go on and talk about red states and blue states and republicans in the house, i mean really -- chris christie, he's gone into some sort of bloomberg like hybrid politician. it might be fantastic for him numbers wise.

i know a lot of democrats who hated him a year ago but love him right now. i think it is irresponsible. boehner did mess up. i think think should have told the public, you know what, this thing is filled with all kinds of stuff, we're going to take it off and get these people help. stuart: a lot of our viewers of scrapping the sandy package because of the pork that's in it. here's what you are saying on our facebook page. here's from alan, first of all: >> then karen agrees with that. she chimes in with this: >> interesting. perhaps bill's thoughts sum up how a lot of the country feels about this. he says: stuart: actually i do care. i'm not west of ohio. i live in new jersey. i do care when i see hour

taxpayer money being spent like this. we have a trillion dollars deficit we can't afford this. liz: this is a landmark pork-barrel. stuart: it is. liz: it is a pork storm. this is an area of the country that was responsible for 15 to 20 percent of the country's gdp. so it's important to get it back up and running. charles: that's the only thing i'm saying is they have to figure out a way, boehner, the republicans to articulate this kind of thing in the public so it doesn't come across that they simply told staten island and other parts of new jersey and new york that they weren't important. stuart: i have another new at 10:00 story, the fiscal cliff deal made in washington includes a one year extension for the wind energy subsidies, that is, that will cost taxpayers an estimated 12.1 billion dollars. that's for one year extension. joining us now is bob deans from the natural resource defense council. bob, look, i'm very interested in this story, but i'm going to throw something else at you before we get into the wind subsidy and that is the keystone pipeline. we got a report yesterday in the

new york post that said president obama is seriously considering building that pipeline. what do you know about this? is this possible? >> well, he rejected it a year ago, stuart. we think he will reject it again. it was a bad idea a year ago. it is still a bad idea. it needs to be rejected once and for all. stuart: but the post said that lisa jackson is resigning as the administrator of the epa because she got word that maybe president obama was likely to go ahead with the keystone pipeline. so it looks like it is being discussed. and it is at least possible that the president reverses his earlier opposition. >> he has that option. we hope he won't. this is disastrous for the climate. it takes three times the carbon to get that oil out of the ground as it does stuart for conventional oil. that's a real problem. they are destroying something like 250 square miles have been turned into industrial wasteland, of the forrests, size

of chicago -- of the forests, size of chicago. charles: chicago used to be a giant forest too but then they had to clear it away for people to live there. but go ahead. stuart: hold on a second, bob. i have a breaking story. general motors december sales figures for you, up 5%, year over year, gm up 5%. the stock has gone to $29 a share. earlier we had ford with a 2% year on year gain. back to bob dean, natural resource defense council. we have an extension of one year of wind industry subsidies. 12 billion dollars. a lot of us are not happy about that because our taxes have gone up. we've got a trillion dollars a year deficit. and yet, we're giving wind, which is so far being largely unsuccessful in generating serious electricity, they get 12 billion. what's your defense of that? >> well, stuart, that's a serious problem, we know that, i know as an economist you understand the difference

between investment and spending. this is an investment in our future. we're building a whole new generation of renewable power across the heartland of this country. we're building new industries, putting americans back to work, steelmakers in indiana, workers in ohio. >> there's only 84,000 jobs in the wind industry. that's it. that's absolute peanuts. you haven't gone over the problem of storing electricity once you've created it by the wind. you cannot transmit the electricity, a significant loss of the juice, and you can't get electricity when the wind doesn't blow. you have so many problems here, but you're spending 12 billion. however, i've had my say. here's liz macdonald. liz: i hear what you are saying, sir, but didn't the shale gas and the natural gas revolution make uneconomic these subsidies for wind because i have to tell you something the nat gas does lower carbon emissions and much cheaper? >> sure, it's brought the price of those fossil fuels down, but this is about our future. this is about the kind of future

we want to have for our children. do we really want to be anchoring our future to the fossil fuels of the past? do we want to be addicted to oil 50 years from now? we don't. we invest in our future. we're investing in wind. you go across kansas, there are hundreds of these wind turbines generating electricity. they're helping keep families and farmers intact. you mentioned 84,000, that's more than people coal mining. it's growing. stuart: how many decades before we get to say 20%? >> about 15 years, stuart, according to the department of energy. and 20% as you know will be equal to what we're now producing with nuclear power with none of the dangers, none of the hazardous waste. liz: we have been at this -- stuart: 4% to 20% in 15 years. liz: wind industry came out of

the netherlands in 79. we have been at this in this country from 92. how do you get from 4 to 20 in a shorter amount of time? >> the real growth of course has been in the past decade and really it's gone up in the past five years. these public investments are helping out. that's what the doe says, if we continue to invest, we can get 20% of our electricity from wind by 2030. that's about 15 years now. looking forward to it. stuart: thanks for joining us. we appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. stuart: patriotic millionaires, they got their wish, they will pay their so-called fair share in taxes. so are they ready to cut a check? remember this? >> -- your checkbook today. >> i don't have my checkbook. stuart: will you write a check to the government and pay the taxes voluntarily if -- >> taxes are not a voluntary process. stuart: no, they are not. the patriotic millionaire, he will be here again, 10:35 this morning. we're going to challenge him. he's one of these patriotic

millionaires, they want to pay more taxes, but they don't write a check. okay. nicole, facebook shares yet again a winner. i want to know what's going on with this. nicole: another day, another analyst upgrade with a price target. so today an analyst has come out and raised their price target on facebook, which has been doing exceptionally well over the past 3 months. here it is, price target raised $32, up from $28. yesterday jpmorgan raised their price target to 35 bucks, up from 29. we're getting closer and closer, to that ipo price back in may of 38 bucks. stuart: closer and closer, $10 shy? okay. nicole: eric schoenberg, during the interview when you're talking about taxes, he didn't look too happy, in the head shot he's smiling, i can't wait for the interview, if he's smiling or not smiling. stuart: he's back at 10:35.

we're going to have some fun. nicole thank you very much. new at 10:00 story today, japan's population showed its biggest drop on record, it declined 212,000 people last year. that is the 6th straight year of declines since the health ministry started recording the information back in 1946. here's frequent varney & company guest keith fitzgerald using his own economic indicator about japan when he was talking about japan last month. >> you can see that anecdotally they sell for example more adult diaper products than they do infant diaper products. stuart: is that true, really? >> yes, it is. yes, it is. stuart: you can tell we were shocked, more adult diapers than baby diapers in japan. that shows you the population. america is nowhere near there yet. but japan's economy is suffering because of demographics. charles: even before the great recession happened around the world, most economists said

japan would have a huge problem because of the situation. old population. europe is right behind them. then america, last year was our worst year i think for having kids. i read where one report said in 200 years japan will have a population of less than 10 million people at this rate. right now it's 128 million. the problem they have that's really unique to japan is the immigration thing. they treat immigrants or they have at least in the past very poorly. stuart: they won't allow it. charles: the ones that do come in are treated so badly, so miserably, and, you know, by the way it is a lesson for every one in these situations, you have to have immigrants, you like to have smart ones, energetic ones, ones that are willing to assimilate, bottom line, they are in a very unique and desperate situation. although i do like this guy they elected not for money printing i think he will try to bring something back to them, some sort of spirit that's been gone for about 20 years.

stuart: do you want we want the warrior spirit in japan? charles: i don't know if we want it. but they need it. we may not want it, but they need it. everyone who talks about -- i'm getting the wrap thing. i have a real unique connection here between this and our fiscal cliff talks also. stuart: we will get there shortly. we have to wrap this one up. the push for gun control is already starting. state lawmakers in illinois close to passing much tougher gun laws. a ban on the possession of all handguns and semiautomatic rifles. that and a fight with the judge on the debt ceiling. both of those issues next. this is $100,000. we asked total strangers to watch ifor us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back.

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stuart: hormel foods has agreed to buy skippy peanut butter that's the brand that unilever has. they are buying it for 700 million dollars for skippy peanut butter. shares of hormel foods are up, 700 million for skippy peanut butter. "wall street journal" announced this morning that the gap will buy women's fashion boutique, they are paying 130 million. this puts the gap into the luxury clothing market so i am told. the gap though is down 8 cents. president obama signed the fiscal cliff bill while on vacation in hawaii with his family this morning. next, the judge and i will fight

over the debt limit. don't miss this.

stuart: democrats in illinois are pushing a tough new gun law that would restrict semiautomatic weapons and high capacity magazines. the illinois state rifle association says democrats are trying to push legislation through before the state's new general assembly is sworn in next week. the judge is here with a reaction. straighten it out. what exactly is illinois trying to do? >> there are democratic politicians in illinois who would like to ban the ownership of all handguns by everyone even in the home, they cannot do that. in fact the leading case involves the city of chicago's efforts to do that, the supreme court invalidated it. so the legislation that is proposed now will ban the type of weapon that was regrettably used in connecticut last month. it would also limit the amount sof ammunition -- limit the amount of ammunition that you could purchase and it would

reduce the size of the ammunition clips. it would also require additional -- impose additional registration requirements. stuart: all these legitimate restrictions on 2nd amendment -- i mean constitutionally legitimate restrictions. >> wearing my judicial hat, the court has not ruled on the extent to which the limitation on ammunition is a legitimate or illegitimate restriction on the right to keep and bear arms. the city of chicago last year proposed a tax on ammunition where the tax on each bullet, each round would have been greater than the cost of the bullet, and their own lawyers persuaded them this would never hold muster and the courts would invalidate it the minute it was enacted. stuart: we're interested to see where gun control legislation is going to go. >> the very very liberal/progressive legislature in illinois. the democrats have a super majority after january 9th so expect a major gun control legislation to be enacted there. stuart: now yesterday on this program -- >> what do you want to beat me

up about? stuart: i would never do such a thing. but yesterday on this program you got things totally wrong. you said if we get to the debt limit, the ceiling, we should stop borrowing. >> oh absolutely. it is not even a close call. stuart: wait, wait. >> surely you didn't think i would change my mind. stuart: we stop borrowing immediately and live within our means, immediately; right? >> yes. stuart: no more borrowing. >> yes. stuart: in maybe ten seconds could you tell me what you think might happen to our economy if you did that. >> it depends on what the government does. stuart: they've stopped borrowing money. >> if the government shrank the government, if it shrank each department by 10%, it would save a great deal of money, there would be is a lot less obligation on the part of debt service for us to pay. i know there would be an initial reverberation here. stuart: reverberation? >> you could call it an earthquake if you want. an economic earthquake because we are so addicted to government

borrowing. stuart: it would be -- >> it's the reason our friends on wall street were so happy with the fiscal cliff. they like cash even if it's freshly printed cash. even if it's cash they have to pay back. stuart: hold on a second. >> we are addicted to the federal government being the engine of our economy. it shouldn't be. individual initiative should be. stuart: i think you admitted there would be an immediate economic crash. there would be, and you know it. >> i said earthquake. we would get over it and we would be far better in the long run by not having the debt service. stuart: wait a second. take the case of a meat inspector in iowa, he's paid by the federal government to -- >> he shouldn't be, but he is. stuart: but he is. he's part of the deficit; right? go with me for a second. he inspects pork, inspects hog farms in iowa. suddenly he's not getting paid. so he is not going to inspect -- wait, he's not going to inspect the hogs, so those hogs cannot be sold. so they are slaughtered and they cannot go to market. you have a breakdown in the meat industry and every other industry --

>> you're assuming that the government when it is required to shrink each department by -- stuart: you know they would do exactly that. >> what could be more essential than meat inspection? stuart: they would do it. >> then i would tell you what would happen is, then the purveyors of the meat would hire an insurance carrier and the insurance carrier would do the inspection. stuart: you cannot sell meat in the united states of america unless it is federally inspected. >> if the feds won't inspect it, then the law is impossible to force. stuart: it does not matter. you could not sell that meat. by the time it's gone through the supreme court -- >> -- can do x and if others can do x, they will go to jail for doing it? that's preposterous. stuart: judge napolitano wants a

crash. i don't. i don't. >> i don't want a crash. i want a government that lives within its means. stuart: and you get a crash. >> i suspect you do as well. you just have more patience than i. stuart: oh, that's a neat little compromise. [laughter] >> you do agree we both want a government that lives within its means. i want it tomorrow. you want it eventually. stuart: i think we can agree on that. [laughter] >> okay. charles: we also want one other thing, stuart can't live without his pork. >> oh, but it must be inspected by government inspectors. phillip, no more non-inspected pork in the castle. stuart: are you done? >> yes. [laughter] stuart: america has a spending problem everything from the fiscal cliff bill to the sandy relief package, loaded with pork. when will it end? my take on that is next. [laughter]

>> speaker wouldn't bring the bill up. the speaker bring the bill up on the floor and we have debate as part of the democratic process and have a vote on the amendments and the up-or-down vote and we were never given that. the speaker never brought the bill to the floor, and that's not fair to my constituents who, you know, are suffering,

frankly. stuart: that was new jersey congressman in our last hour on john boehner's decision to not even bring the sandy relief bill up for a vote. that's the 60 billion dollars. it's twice the amount of new jersey's entire budget. it is loaded with pork. big controversy. let's check the markets again. we're down 29 points. remember, we were up 300 yesterday. so this is a minor league's pullback. the patriotic millionaires, yes, they got their way. the so-called wealthy will pay more in taxes. they say it's all about fairness. listen to this. >> i think it is perfectly reasonable for those who have done well by the society we live in to contribute to that society. stuart: more than 50%? stuart: more than 50%? in just a few minutes that same patriotic millionaire will be here again. we will ask him if the deal on the fiscal cliff is fair.

must be obvious to everyone that we have a spending problem. we just can't put a lid on it, can we? we can't say no. two examples on full display this week. here's my take on the cliff deal and sandy relief. you would think that when we're spending a trillion dollars a year more than we're taking in, that some spending restraint would be in order, but no. first, look at the deficit reducing cliff deal. 4 million dollars for electric motorbikes. 70 million dollars for nascar. 430 million dollars for -- [inaudible]. 59 million dollars for algae. what does have to do with deficit reduction? answer, that's how the system works. you buy votes with taxpayers' money. then there is the 60 billion dollars sandy relief bill, outrage from new york and new jersey politicians when the house failed to schedule a vote on it. but wait, 60 billion dollars? is the relief bill for hurricane andrew was only 7 billion.

turns out the sandy package was loaded up like a christmas tree. amtrak needed 30 million for repairs. it got 336 million. alaska fisheries got 150 million. alaska? and by the way, the total budget of the state of new jersey is 30 billion dollars. yet the tab for washington is double that. america's fundamental problem is obvious, politicians buy votes with your money. both sides do it. scene the president, well, he's the master of the art. but we know deep down we just can't keep doing this. can we? i will end this by again quoting margaret thatcher when britain's economy was near ruin, she stood up and said enough, with the following words: the trouble with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money. where is america's lady thatcher when we really need her? [ male announcer ] where do you turn for legal matters?

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rosales figures, december numbers are up 9% from the year before. toyota stock moved up $95 a share recently down $0.52 as of right now. let's go to chicago and bring in scott, to discuss all the pork and i'm going to the center of pork futures, of a port that is in the sandy relief bill. you are in chicago. here in new york everyone is complaining. why couldn't you pass the bill? we don't care out the pork. we want relief. how do you feel about that pork stuffed into that bill when you are sitting in chicago? >> the best word i can come up with it is embarrassing. they could pull the wool over

our allies using another animal analogy is futile. given the opportunity to disappoint the think politicians do number one. , about the standee bill, is laden with pork but it is $60 billion. we expected to raise in revenue this year anyway so that would be a big watch. if anyone sitdown and looks at the math, $60 billion what the revenue raisers it is only 5% of the deficit this year. if you want to look at that match your more embarrassed about that than the pork. stuart: you can't have a spending bill today in america without loading it up with goodies for people to make them vote for the bill. fisheries in alaska get $150 million from a c and the relief effort for new jersey in new york. is crazy. last word to you. >> it is all about getting reelected. a lot of these problems will be over with term limits. we have to address that because we need people to represent the people and not worry about their jobs and do things that have to agree with the other side.

and we get some commonality and move forward. stuart: i didn't know you were at term limits died. i will remember that in the future and we will discuss it. thank you very much. our next guest is a happy man, happy as a clam to pay more in taxes. it is exactly what he wanted. after the fiscal deal was past his group called the patriotic millionaires said, quote, we did it! here to take a victory lap is one of the patriotic millionaires, eric show andburg --shoenbe --shoenberg. >> it is the first step. stuart: you want to pay more? >> we have a significant fiscal problem. stuart: the president said we will have a balanced approach in the future to spending cuts. in other words we may cut some spending but we are going to tax some more. you are happy about that? >> even the republicans have been in favor.

we need significant change. stuart: i you happy to pay even more on top of the increases the fiscal quick deal delivered? >> i'm willing to pay more above and beyond what has been agreed to. stuart: you would the date you are an academic, a professor at columbia university, adjunct prof.. why is it all you professors, academics, why are you still liberal? >> part of it has to do with the fact that it is definitional what is liberal or conservative. given that often people think attitude towards taxation have an important component of the political spectrum, part of the reason is the academic do not rate themselves based on how much money they make. charles: are you kidding me? nothing has outpaced inflation more than how much you professors make in college. $1 trillion in student loans, the biggest burden in this country to pay professors whose

salaries outpacing wage in the way secretaries could be me to the corner and you don't care about money? >> you are not going to get me to defend the university industrial complex. they're too expensive. the salary of the faculty is only a small portion. liz: here is to the point. isn't it naive to think you can let government spending goes so out of control? you tax 1 hundred million -- millionaires and only raise $600 billion, a fraction of the $16 trillion in the u.s. deficit. there is no lock box in washington d.c. for your tax revenues going into the system. >> i am not disagreeing. i am in favor of reducing government spending. that is an important component of what needs to be done in order to get our fiscal -- [talking over each other] stuart: why didn't president obama reduce spending?

>> he tried to negotiate a bargain with congress but found the house of representatives was completely unwilling to consider anything -- [talking over each other] stuart: $620 billion in tax increases, $15 billion in spending cuts. >> i find it baffling that republicans just voted against a bill that would cut taxes substantially relative to current wall. they were voting for allowing the bush tax cuts republicans passed that only lasted for ten years, they were voting to allow them to lapse. remarkable thing for republican congress to do. stuart: the top rate on income tax is 39.6%. that has gone up from 35 to 39.6. you are happy about that? >> i am. stuart: when you're prepared to pay even more. how much more? >> what i think should happen next is there should be a grand bargain that includes

suustantial spending cuts as well as reform -- [talking over each other] stuart: how much more? >> it is not just a question of marginal rate. you talk about -- you talk about work and i agree. [talking over each other] stuart: i am insisting on a response. 39.6 now. what would you be happy going to? >> the 9.6% of what? i agree with republicans, widen the base and apply these rates to more -- [talking over each other] let's talk about where the deductions are taken. liz: to the middle-class. [talking over each other] >> i get deductions like everybody else on an income of $1 million a year, i get to deduct charitable donations -- [talking over each other] stuart: when you don't think you should? >> i think we should get rid of

all of these things. let's go back to the point i just made. you are complaining about the pork in this bill. there's a lot of pork but it is in the form of tax reductions, benefits for individual companies for racetrack owners -- stuart: let's get back to marginal income-tax rates. forget deductions and forget spending cuts. where would you be happy? what would the marginal rate go up to that you would still be happy? 45%? >> i frown -- stuart: 675%? >> 39.6% is not a bad rate for marginal rate on earned income but what about an errant income? what about capital gains? stuart: can you give me a number yes or no? >> i am telling you you can get substantial increase in come without changing that marginal rate. stuart: are you going to give it to me? >> i don't understand what the

question is. stuart: in france the top marginal rate has gone to 75%. >> i don't think -- that is too high. 50% is a perfectly reasonable number. stuart: the top marginal -- so then you got 50% from the fed is. half of your money goes to the treasury and if you live in new york city you have another -- 11% or 12%. in california 13%. at that point you live in a wealthy area, $0.63 on the dollar goes out of your pocket and goes to washington or your state capital and you are happy with that? >> i would be ok with it. [talking over each other] i'm not paying anywhere near those rates. stuart: -- >> the maximum rate of 20%. stuart: what our audience -- >> 20 defense is too high -- stuart: when your july at a more taxes is i am a striver.

i came here with nothing and made it all myself. you inherited your wealth, did you not? >> i inherited some wealth and made some of my own. stuart: made a huge difference. >> one of the good things about this bill is recognizing there is a big difference between someone making $250,000 a year and someone making a one million dollars a year. it is entirely appropriately have higher rates on higher levels of income. [talking over each other] >> income of $5 million a year? you think these people are striving and suffering because they're not able to take more of that -- stuart: this is america, not your. did you bring your checkbook? you think 50% is legitimate take out your checkbook, write that check right now because our government will be needed. will you do it? >> i do not believe taxation is a voluntary process. hold point -- stuart: prof. of columbia

university, a pleasure. more than 800 new laws in california on the books for 2013 and you can bet on one thing. people in california will be paying more in taxes. will love it?

stuart: after a 300 point rally yesterday has congress averted the fiscal cliff? the markets are flat, dow industrials down 22. just released this morning the 30-year fixed-rate mortgage rate 3.34%, slight drop from last week. today is the day automakers to lease sales numbers, ford up, take a look at the stock, 1356. gm sales up 5% december year over year. gm stock 29. we told you about toyota, sales up 9% december year over year. toyota stock for at $93 a share. at wapner denouncing u.s.

regulators approved a new standard that will be launched in america at immediately. shares of at labs up 2%. mike reagan on what he has to say about california being the highest taxed state in the country.

stuart: if you add the new higher tax rate from the fiscal cliff the lead the federal level to the new higher tax rate at the state level in california, add them together and you got some money in your pocket, you are paying a ton. how does mike reagan feel about that? he is in california, i want to know how he feels about living in the highest prize, highest taxed state in the nation. what do you say? >> it is not easy. it is not easy prose with lower income levels. the other day i fired my pool man and turned him into a farmer to farm out the out of my pool for $59 million the government just gave us. what is going on in california

is ludicrous and ridiculous. i talked to a surgeon just before christmas who sold his house so he could beat the 3.8% surtax that will be on his income after jan. first. team moved his business, he is going to las vegas, bought a house in las vegas and feels the money he saved from not being state taxes in california he will pay for that house in less than two years and that is what he is doing. i talked to other people who have businesses who got rid of those over the number of 50 employees for their company, reduce it down to 47 employees so they would not be hit by obamacare. this is what is going on in california, 17 businesses month on leaving the state of california because of the tax system in california and regulations like you mentioned a moment ago, over 800 bills were passed this last year by the

state legislature. one of them is this allowing people from using hunting dogs to go after bobcats and bears. these people are out of control in sacramento and now there's a two thirds majority in both houses. stuart: sign any sine die people of california are rethinking the huge taxation rates? apart from people moving their money around and their business around to avoid the tax rates is there any sign of a real backlash to the prevailing trend in california which is tax and regulate? >> no. there is no backlash at all in california. that is not to save a next couple weeks there won't be some kind of backlash when they find out there will be 2% less money in their paychecks and they had before january 1st, 2013. that might wake up some people. the higher tax at 13% plus, the fact that there is a larger sales tax in california that

will last four years, income tax seven years, it will never go away. it may hit by march or april but hasn't hit yes because people in california are very happy voting to allow people who make it on their own and do well very happy with making them pay more in taxes so they can do whatever they do. stuart: is this the new normal in america? i know california is separate in this respect because taxes are higher and legislation is crazy and regulations are lunacy but i know you are out there on a limb. do you think this is the new normal for the united states of america? >> it is the new normal, unless the conservative movement in this country comes up with the leader. i talked to someone yesterday is that liberals are led by ideology. conservatives are always looking for a leader. when they do not have a leader to lead them they are all over the map and that is where the liberals want them as long as

the conservatives are confused, they win the day and this becomes the new gold. stuart: have you got a name in mind? anybody? >> barney. stuart: i was not born in the united states. >> i don't at this point in time. that person has to surface and come to the top. there might be people out there but you can't give a litmus test to everybody on the planet to see if they pass your special litmus test and if they don't you can infect have them be part of your party. you have got to be inclusive. people need to stop talking about my father and start embracing who he was. i was at an event just before thanksgiving down in florida and are was speaking and said maybe i could explain it to you a little bit better. will all the blacks in the audience please rise? there aren't any. with the hispanics the stand up and there were two. there is your problem with the republican party.

you become exclusive, not inclusive. when you become inclusive and embrace who ronald reagan is and was, you may find yourself again on the winning team. stuart: mike reagan, always good stuff. thank you very much. see you again soon. back to recurring theme on "varney and company," women in the senate. will the new senate be productive because there are record number of women in the chamber? are women more collegial and collaborative? find out what one long serving female senator says.

stuart: history will be made in the senate today one record-breaking 20 women are sworn in. one of those senators, senator dianne feinstein gives her opinion why the senate may be more productive with the many women in it. we are less on testosterone, we don't have that need to always be confrontational and we are problem solvers and that is what this country needs. liz: you can have all the collaboration in the world but it depends on what conclusions and decisions you make and within there is good for the country. i created the world's most powerful women's list for forbes magazine list when inspiration was margaret thatcher's that you cannot lead from the crowd. you have to budget within your

means. dependencies to degradation and at one point she said to a conservative venture the problem is it doesn't reach your brain. that is the issue. we need women leaders. what is the right thing for the country who know how to run a household budget, save for a rainy day and do what is good for the country. that is the issue. charles: it is important to have all the views and different ideas. you don't want roomful of men who don't understand the consequences of their actions. some of this is stereotypical and some along the lines of certain myths but i think liz hit exactly where it needs to be hit. i like the idea of having a balance in there but also -- stuart: you can be as compromising as you like, collegial and friendly as you like but if you come up with decisions which don't work, you cannot stop a runaway spending and debt of this country. whether you are male or female.

liz: collaboration is not the end. is the idea the conclusion is where the mine comes direct. stuart: out of time. last word to the lady. that is the way it goes and the highlight reel is next. lyric can. lyric can. lyric by phonak is the world's only 24/7, 100% invisible hearing device. it's tiny. but lyric's not just about what you can't see. it's about what it can do. lyric can be worn 24/7 for up to four months, without battery changes. incredibly easy to live with, lyric can be worn showering, sleeping and exercising. in fact, you might forgeit's there at all. call for a risk--free trial. and you'll see lyric can also give you exceptionally clear, natural sound in quiet and noisy environments because of how it works with your ear's own anatomy. (testimonial section)

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