collapses. >> we look at long-term cost savings, not only for country and the economy and the rising overall healthcare sector, the individual costs over lock term will be lower, we're covering things like preventive care, we talk about low income smokers, many do not have comprehensive health reform, their only access to means to emergency room. >> there are a lot -- >> yes, the costs may go up. >> a lot of studies show if people take advantage of preventive care it is more expensive, it costs a lot of money, if everyone is using it that is more than just one person needing the cure. >> well, the whole thing is going to be quite a little dri drill, i hope there is a

discovery, i can't see obamacare staying like it is. >> why am i scared this is just promises and promises, the folks that i deal with small business owners, 37% of uninsured are small business owners, i hear, i'll get insurance when something pops up. >> david, thank you all very much and for you, thank you for coming by and watching the cavuto show. >> super bowl weekend. you going to bet on the game? watch out your government may punish you, even your poker game may be illegal, but government likes to ban things like ticket scalping. >> we have to get the resellers out of the process. >> some people want to ban missioned martial arts.

>> high school cheerleading is more dangerous than mmo . >> and how about that ban on drugs, with so much money in sports should college stars be paid? >> no. >> let's ask, what if government ran sports. >>. john: sunday you will make a bet on the super bowl but the trouble is it your a baltimore fan your team is expected to lose a had to make a bet that is fair? pilot get the point* spread which is about 2.5 points points, as san francisco could bid you could win your bet that makes it more interesting and makes the game more fun but where does

the point* spread come from? bookies, a professional but takers. that is illegal in most of america yet they are ever wear and billions will be bet, most illegally. isn't it time to legalize gambling? >> should betting on sports be allowed? >> never. >> it encourages poor people to spend money they don't have. john: politicians agree and banded on the internet say it is not the right moral choice, or sound public policy. there is enough dysfunctional families but tonight my guest says the government should get out of the way annie duke a former poker player and patrick basham author "gambling: a healthy bet."

what are you talking about? >> it is a real healthy for the individual and society that you have not read this before because research says it has problem gambling but the truth is the evidence doesn't back up. john: how is it healthy? >> it helps our brain and hearts. older folks who play the go there is proof it helps to stave off alzheimer's. you're laughing but it is true. the evidence is there but has not been looked for because there is no government funding. john: it teaches kids about risk and probability. >> we learn to deal with risk that is why kids should

appreciate earlier. john: annie duke you don't by the healthy part? >> when i teach about probability i think there is some use to it but i think some people argue it is immoral or general harm to society with it and identify that they step back from society but when you argue the of the side to say there are good things coming you lend weight to the argument that she left to the legislative issues. >> the moral argument has run out of political steam so what they have done is taken cues from tobacco and obesity.

it could cost of a society. john: as a professional annie duke, uc the casinos lies, chain-smoking, people lose all their money. >> less than 1% in any kind of gambling activity have a problem compared to alcohol which is between seven and 9%. but even with problems they make those tweezers for themselves, they're not hurting anybody, we don't legislate should not protect people from their own bad decisions and hurt the for geordie to enjoy in a healthy way like a restaurant or movies. >> to british generals trillions have far more gambling is no bigger.

john: they assume it will get worse. >> they have a thought experiment if we have gambling on the internet than society will fall apart. john: then you have to go to the casino. >> then what about online shopping? >> with prohibition people do it anyway. there are all kinds of revenues it is it regulated the government gets taxer is a shady? john: it is harder to do with the problem gamblers when it is illegal. >> it is harder to keep children on line as well. john: we tried to get opponents. [laughter] but one group stop predatory gambling, addicted gamblers are abandoning their children and casino parking lots.

>> scare stories. it is anecdotal but it shows the extent is massively overstated and we'd never hear about the positive side of gambling. >> we don't legislate by anecdote. john: we do. >> we shouldn't. fair point*. there was an anecdote about a kid who lost money on line and robbed a bank but blaming it on internet gaming, would get the kid that has good statistics, free internet gaming there was no increase of gamblers with issues. these are not the causes. for them to say anytime somebody robs the bay was the day shopping problem, a gambling problem then we

will be and what made them make the bad decision is a slippery slope. we have a deadline of how are you doing direct harm, is a consensual? then they don't let people still doenitz to people who are overweight. >> that may be coming. >> a big unknown they have paid for studies on what distinguishes gamblers from non gamblers and the american government found one slight difference difference, gamblers are more social, a more involved in their community and likely to donate to charity. john: i believe you but i want to see the studies. super bowl week talk about legalizing sports betting

betting, david stern nba commissioner -- commissioner, one thing i am certain of commonage jersey says they have no idea they're doing because they are just interested in making it the dollar. >> but if you legalize it is in the light and where you get more problems with college sports when they don't pay the players. >> whether sports betting or on-line gambling, it is projecting another domestic industry. john: nfl, nba, national hockey league have joined a lawsuit against new jersey that it threatens the integrity of sports sports, fundamentally at odds with the contest must be perceived as being determined solely on the basis of honest athletic competition.

>> is already happening. there are bookies on it every corner and a tremendous amount of illegal gambling. bring it into the light. >> the most ardent supporters of those leaks those of the most ardent illegal gamblers. >> nobody will watch the bull without the spread is published in "usa today." [laughter] people are watching the game because of the spread. john: half of the state's ban social gambling, a friendly game, i occasionally play poker it is still legal it might stay as long as nobody profits from running the game. >> we are intelligent enough to know our limit.

leave the government out. >> if we're not strong enough to govern ourselves. >> the.development forces the government to step in. >> that's stupid. smoking cigarettes is predictive of behavior. >> did not prevent us from smoking or drinking in our home. >> the liberal guy makes that argument they protect us from ourselves. >> we are unable to make rational decisions. john: with the casino they say it is a kid. >> it is the slippery slope that you want to protect people from their own bad decisions. there are bigger problems but then all a sudden you just have no freedom to make

choices. when i think is a bad decision is different than what you think. john: what shows the hypocrisy of government, the state lottery because there was a numbers racket, organized crime you could pick a number, we cannot do this, we have to stop it well then maybe if we compete we will drive them out of business. we have state lotteries for they are worse they take 50% mostly from poor people and run distrusting commercials that says quote your job and happiness caused nominee did not earn some makkah the pri has cornered the market. >> is aimed at the airport neighborhoods.

>> gambling is no different than any other enterprise when the government runs it it does not go well. >> there is no competition with the lottery. >> the worst lot machine a loss vegas will take $0.5 if there were competitors you'd get a much higher return but the lottery is $0.50 on the dollar. john: 50% from my government? thank you annie duke and patrick basham. ticket scalping, should that be legal? what about steroids? should college athletes be paid? next. law officemax knows... ...tax time can be...well...taxing.

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john: motor game linebacker may have made millions even without concocting a fake girlfriend. basketball forward would have made millions and they are worth at least that the college because they make millions of their services some bring in $50 million profit tickets, and meteorites, clothing, alabama

football coach paid five point* $5 million last year. college sports is big business but they are paid nothing. the top players get scholarships, no tuition because college should be imager time. that is not fair says professor of entrepreneurship at syracuse university, dr. boyce watkins. >> the burden of proof is on the n.c.a.a. john: is to show that runs college sports. >> they do give the scholarship but if you went and said we will take away your $5 million salary and give you a free education how would you feel about that? john: the alabama coach? >> we live in a society we

have labor rights for people can negotiate salaries. it doesn't make sense they make millions of dollars nobody turns on the college basketball game to see the coach they look for the players. icahn the parents share in the revenue? john: there's not much of a movement they don't complain >> the complaint. if they speak freely on the issue the ones understand how much money is made are very resentful. remember the fab five from the university of michigan's chris webber talks about seeing his jersey on sale for $100 if he cannot afford to go to mcdonald's. nobody gives that many to be next. the quickest way to get a fair result is for players

to get to the final four and say we don't go on the court and tell the family gets many. then they don't get paid and i guarantee they would come to the negotiating table quick. john: i agree with you. but most americans do not agree with us. >> no. >> no. >> no. >> no. absolutely not. >> they go to school to learn. >> it takes away from the greatness of sports. john: they play for their team. >> we have a free labor market people can negotiate salaries. if you are nine years old in the blockbuster film, they cannot pay with a scholarship.

john: it is consenting adults, they can and would never contract they make. >> in my opinion the n.c.a.a. can operate in a way that controls the labor market would be illegal in any other industry. k mart cannot collude with wal-mart and target because the justice department steps in. it will not regulate itself itself, the outside force has to bust up to do with the right way or do with a different way. or go back to fundamentals of academic integrity which is fine. john: we did try to get the n.c.a.a. to appear but they did not call me back. >> i am not surprised. they know they are wrong. former executive director

once left the post said these guys should be paid like everybody else. everybody is says they should not get many are making tons of money. commentators, coaches, the have the money for the players but the coach gets the million-dollar salary. love of the game is wonderful but we have to agree it is wrong to have a star player the schoolmates $20 million and the coach will get a bonus but the player's mother cannot even come to the game became she cannot afford a bus ticket. i have seen that. john: asked a famous football coach lou holtz and i said you are ripping them off he said we're not they are getting the opportunity for an education and perfect their skills. >> imagine if the nfl got away paying with

scholarships. the n.c.a.a. makes money on par with the nfl and nba so they should acknowledge that they are a professional sports league. coaches say i expect athletes to be professionals over the last 20 years the athlete has a different set of pressures they and the difference student body. >> they are told what courses to take, . >> wanted to major engineering but my football coach says that does not fit with my schedule. >> if they were paid there could be some wrinkles, if the ballplayers are paid, a female field hockey players must be because of title mind gender equity mandate. >> and not have a problem with that may be allowing players to be released from

the restriction to go outside the university to get paid. if i am the star and go to the local car dealership and bob will pay me to buy his cars, why can't they do that? wife forced to live in poverty protecting the revenue stream? we need that many rules chances are you're doing something you should not be doing. john: thank you dr. boyce watkins. some employees -- athletes take steroids is it a job for congress? >> everyone is responsible, the union, of the players and the commissioners. >> we won steroids out of sports. period. earns 2% cash back

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>> lance armstrong is

despicable slug not because he injected drugs or did doping to improve performance, i don't care but i hate lance armstrong because he cheated and a threat and people if they told the truth. he is a liar and ee but the drugs? so what. i don't care why aid they are not legal my opinion is minorities. >> should the government investigate steroids? >> yes. >> everyone should be drug tested. >> it is harmful. >> the government has to take a stand to show there is no cheating in anything. john: for the future of our nation government must take a stand? nick gillespie agrees but if the athlete dopes he is

cheating. >> he is a liar and a lovely but it is categorically wrong to focus on performance-enhancing drugs the only way to gain the unfair competitive edge over colleagues. and '50s and '60s there innovative trading regimes that was kept secret. is that unfair? using technology, a longtime critic bicycle rider the first to win the tour day france, he beat the french champion by using technologically advantages and by the with the french man he beat use drugs he admitted to steroids and amphetamines. to think it will take any of us to the top is not true with then they are vilified

because they think people are afraid of drugs but not to eat a diet or training. john: i would add wes sick i surgery. tiger woods improved his vision and his game. >> why isn't as more reprehensible? baseball pitchers have reconstructive surgery who can throw better than before. athletes are competitors first and foremost, looking for an edge. but with the tour day france back at 1903 people have been dumping the entire existence only in the mid-60s it became illegal but the activity has never ceased to one place lance armstrong did not have the advantage was performance enhancing drugs but they are accused them.

john: what about cheating? >> some don't get caught. john: they all use them? >> it is ubiquitous in professional sports. john: but not baseball or football, i don't think all of them. >> but is a cheating if people do extras brands or weight lifting. >> one is legal. >> these arbitrary distinctions because not all drug czar banned. but mark mcgwire was openly using certain performance enhancing drugs that were the gold but now they are not. it is a gray area with where this is legal and moral but this is cheating. john: people say these drugs

make people into freaks, they're dangerous. >> there are two ways. we like to see freaks like lance armstrong and absolute freak of nature the better he was at cycling the more people watched when people are not as good, fewer people watched. question of lot of athletes to damage by using drugs the first thing you should do is ban athletics. a problem with the football players not the steroid but he puts his head against iraq wall for his entire career. you should bring it up above ground so doctors and coaches can open the deal with what works and what doesn't for regulation of best practice.

john: how would that work? i look at the list but it acne, diabetes, kidney damage, death, as. >> i don't disagree with that is already happening. then nothing is made better by saying it is illegal. so it is only available to the risk takers who take it in darkness. john: some would say yes, we would have guidelines and choices. >> just like bodybuilding that may in mind of the steroid use of the beginning , there said natural circuit and enhanced circuit so audience and athletes can choose then the better we all are. john: nick gillespie from

"reason" magazine. the beauty of ticket scalping and a sport that five of the.has been banned where i lived.

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john: that is mixed martial arts is fighting and you have to be good at all martial arts. so is boxing and football but in your can to netiquette it those are legal but mixed martial arts is banned i could watch boxers smash each other in the face or fake wrestling when people do croupier things and some hired help

is out of control. >> i think it is fake. >> is that fake? john: years ago when he took offense when i said it is they can beat me up but i understand why violent fait wrestling or mixed martial arts is not? from the ultimate fighting championship joins us from las vegas where there is a big event, lawrence white can i go to any event here? >> 1997 the new york state legislature passed a law that banned the sport of mixed martial arts that sport back then is different from today and with the reforms taking place with the addition of a the weight

class, have proper health and medical safety testing is not the same sport but the law that existed is still in effect and we have been trying to get that overturned in have the state regulate the sport. john: it has been 15 years sandy make money, bigger than boxing on tv but my state politicians to represent me say no? we are smarter than the other states? >> it is about educating people. >> are my politicians stupider? they say you have not kissed our ring or given us enough

money? >> no doubt the politicians have been deliberate. we need to get a vote on the floor and we have not had an opportunity. >> the majority leader said i think it is barbaric. we take steps to reduce bullying, it would endorse an entity that is blatantly violent. >> we have heard that years and years. those comments are incorrect >> to set out with a good looking female champions but the proponents said they are getting savvy and the beautiful woman instead of the man was that you? >> i don't think so.

but that is an exact -- example of what an athlete is about. long time to go to a lead player that participated in two olympics so she is a classic example that is part of the ultimate fighting organization. john: john mccain calls it human cock fighting, those are illegal but he has changed his tune that they have cleaned up the sport. you talk to these guys, i try not to. do they not have time to vote? >> new york is a special place for this tousing can.

john: i hope it does. >> what have been if government transports? ticket scalping. what you think may not be so.fi recommended gaviscon®. only gaviscon® forms a protective barrier that helps block stomach acid from splashing up- relieving the pain quickly. try fast, long lasting gaviscon®.

john: day you have your ticket to the super bowl? is not too late. you can get from us gelber. but internet sites still has thousands listed for sale flight stub of it will set you back a couple thousand or when it doesn't which is why people say it should be legal. >> should ticket scalping be allowed? >> no. >> no. >> held know it is hard to buy tickets and you cannot get one for yourself. >> if stub hub buys them i cannot get them but sometimes they do take them up but it is simple-minded and counterproductive.

>> the reality we have a limited number of seats and more people to buy those sometimes tickets are sold far in advance and we don't know the value purpose oftentimes the secondary market sells the high value ticket at the high price or low value at the low price. it is the arbitrage opportunity the secondary market takes advantage of. john: why is that good for the consumer? >> people have tickets to do not value as much so those who sell to the scalpers are those whose say i don't want to go to this. every year of his friend cells of the tickets to fund his season purchase. >> but then the rich goes to the game.

>> there are a lot of disparities if we're worried i make sure getting tickets is at the bottom. john: even sports teams use them. >> some realize if you're a baseball team and you don't what -- shall the you'll be good set the price low then you have a big team coming you said if you sell tickets , and sold them back to us and we will solve this back this started with the chicago cubs and they realized we need to make as much money as we can so they set up the secondary market for their own tickets. john: politicians are upset at there bruce springsteen concert people complained,

always quick to pander senator schumer said he would promise. >> we have to get three sailors out of the process of the average buyer has a fair shot to purchase a ticket at a fair price and my legislation does that. john: that did not pass but if a fair price seems reasonable. >> we have to remember it is the arbitrary face value. i am not sure but we have to allocate, who will get in first? if you let more beautiful people in first, we have a problem with scarcity and price is a simple way to solve the problem. john: and the fairest. >> politicians pick on this because everyone hates

paying higher prices. john: defending the indefensible, and the book brought my mind around to the adm of the ticket scalper but there is a downside, how do you know, your ticket is legitimate? >> this man hands over when a dollars for two tickets with than finds out when he gets to the gate he finds out they are fake but a person this sculpture was nowhere in sight. john: about 200 people last year were turned away because they were phony. >> when you have the driving secondary market as a people who have limited information >> there is a reputation here, we will figure out a way to get you in. that is the downside to the

black market if people wanted the black market will figure it out taking advantage of eager concerts' goers you are right. john: and the politicians beginning it does not make it better. arkansas, massachusetts has a law against helping but they're not enforced. >> goes to buy the tickets are happy. those who sell the tickets are happy because they wanted to sell. john: thank you jc bradbury what if government transports? -- ran sports?

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john: if you watch the super bowl think about this, two teams will fight and when one wins they will shake hands and move on. lots of money made, people have fun and everyone participates voluntarily. would've government ran sports? i asked mark q. been under a former champion basketball team. >> first of all, new team could be good as soon as one team showed there were better we would have to go back to reevaluate so things were fair.

you could not start with a jump ball because somebody may lose you have to have a coin toss but at least not because of somebody's effort you do not want them to look bad or you have to give them a badge. john: it is a little extreme and professional sports have fairness rules, the best team gets the last pick and revenue-sharing to be competitive is it is voluntary and his thought experiment has interests. >> quarters would just b-12 minutes long because you have got to make sure everybody has an equal chance in each team had the same number of plays. john: is that a fair comparison? >> without question. the american way is to take chances, create opportunities, take the initiative and it ite