charles: happy birthday ronald reagan, something tells me if you were around today you would not be celebrating, welcome i am charles payne in for are for neil cavuto, ronald reagan was born 102 years ago from today. boy things have changed since then.

democrats are moving to push top rate more and government bigger, if reagan were alive today, he would be horrified at both parties, author of upcoming book. the corruption of capitalism in america, he is joining me, david, thank you for your time. david stockman. lately over last couple years, you have become something of a person who says pox on both houses, i'm finding it hard to pin you down, you seem to be upset and angry about almost everything going on with everyone involved. why? >> i think we've drifted 180 degrees from where we started in 1981, and where i think ronald reagan was trying to take us. in the end he didn't make much progress and failed but he had three principles which are solid. number one, sound money. number two, fiscal rectude. and three liberate the free market allow pro prosperity to k

out in the private sector, we hardly have a free marke left, we bailed out autos, and wall street, medical, education, emergency are call heavily impacted a manipulated by government, fiscal rectitude we cannot mention that. and sound money, he would be appalled to see the kind of reckless wild almost lunatic money prints that is going on by the fed today, especially it was done by republican appointees. high thought greenspan was a solid conservative gold standard man, high turned out to be the biggest money printer to occupy federal reserve, then republicans appointed bernanke who is an out and out keynesian, and has monetized trillions of the debt, ronald reagan was opposed to all of, that here we

are 30 years later, this is where it has done, not only because of the democrats that is why i'm upset, because the republicans have taken us down this path. charles: interesting because, ronald reagan worked with volcker. at the time he of a question mark to his policies, but do you think one essential thing that that changed is the inability of americans to accept any form of pain, the notion there should always be a soft landing delivered by whether monetary policy or fiscal policy, because then, what paul volcker did was tough, the initial first year, under ronald reagan it was not easy, it was tough, people report through a certain amount of pain before they become out on the other tied feeling better. >> that is right, and greatest achievement. in office that ronald reagan had, he backed volcker all the way without hesitation, even when there was a huge political pressure from the republicans on

the hill. from a certain faction of the white house staff that reallimented to actually drum volcker out, i remember once, leader baker said, get your foot off the back of american. but, ronald reagan stuck with him. he said, this wild massive inflation we had in the 1970s, was caused by too much money, too much money printing, too much ease of the fed, it had to be reversed and stopped. it would be painful to get from here to there. but, he saw it through. and that is the main reason we had a recovery in mid 1980s, because we defeated inflation, and we allowed the private sector to have at least a few years before we got into the wild money prints of the greenspan era. charles: we're there is talk of somehow not lets sequest

raising -- sequesting going through. and it gets back too again to the idea then, if we can't accept even a small pause, sort of a pinch in the way we live, then are we destined to make this a bigger problem? i always said weiujump off a one story now or 10 story building later. >> it is inevitable. and opposite of principle that reagan had, he understood there is no gain without some pain, if policy is way off track, you have to reel it in, it may be difficult to de get from here to there, he wassal responsely an anti-keynesian, he learned his economics in 1927s before this nonsense with new deal, and

keynesian era became established policy, what we're doing today is pure keynesian can kicking, the economy has to be supported by a tril do i don't know dolla- trillion dollar deficit, if it is not we're going down the drain, that is nonsense, we cannot keep borrowing from future generations, and passing out money, and so we could have a little more gdp a quarter of a time, we have to face up to this, we did in 1980s, the system today is incapable, i blame the fed and greenspan for creating thar ofa wall street coddling. once they said they could not allow the stock market to drop more than 5%, and prop up the big wall street houses -- . charles: david, you criticized

romney a lot during the election, talking about crony capitalism but the same token have you been a critic of paul ryan as well. so who has a solution? if mitt romney did not represent capitalism, this defore may be of capitalism in your book, what is that about? >> it is getting back to first principles and remembering what we used to think in the 19 70s, and 60s, and the 1920s, today it is such a lincoln day dinner rhetoric. romney was unwilling to cut defense, he said nothing about social security. it has to be means tested, he danced around medicare that is a monster that is out of control, only program he was willing to name he would actually cut was big bird stipend if you remember. charles: you started talking about a housing bubble. now for many, we have only just

hitterra firma, -- terra firma, but you say already that is a bubble. if that is so is the only bright spot in the economy we're in trouble. >> it is just the same money printing by the fed, if we lock at these markets that were badly injured, during the bust. phoenix, and southern california, florida, this is all, you know hedge fund money. lbo money, fast money coming in buying them by the dozens and hundreds, they are in their for a trade, this is not healthy. these are single family homes spread out in former subprime neighborhoods, there has never been in last 50 years any real economy basis for insteadal visitors -- institutional investor on wildcats to own single family homes in scottsdale, this is easy money, chasing prices for a short time,

and we're going to be back in the soup. charles: you know, back with that infamous atlantic monthly interview you talked about being taken out o to the wood shed, i think that the american public is glad you never stop offed stopped raising your voice. >> thank you. charles: coming up, the health care hit that is giving people a fit, another white house promise broken that will keep people just broke. >> and hackers hitting the feds. officemax is celebrating our new collaboration with go daddy!

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charles: the federal reserve smacked by hack attack. central bank confirming, that a

interal web site was broken into, claiming it stole personal information about thousand of u.s. bankers, it could have been worse. sandra smith, and cyber security expert are concerned, if the fed is not safe from these attacks who is? >> this is a vital organization, there are many out there, this day in age this is a very real concern, a very real threat to companies, in this case it was the st. louis fed emergency communication system, that is used in times of natural disasters, when messages need to be sent out, some things vehicle happened. but one of the vendor was responsible for the breach, however i find it amusing. they see that the breach was short lived, i said they broke into the fed they founding in in nothing there but ious and banker names.

a bunch of debt. charles: that is a great point, but if the federal reserve is not safe, then that means no one is safe, right? >> well, actually, this is really a growing concern, not only large institutions but commercial banks and companies, should be concerned about their on-line banking activity. or other activity that they are using today. charles: no doubt everyone is concerned, but despite the concern, anonymous, it seems they can go anywhere they want, and hack anywhere they want and get away, people watching the show, we're in a cyber world, this is our reality, which is unsafe. >> actually, if companies and consumers imminent even -- implement the most simplest security proceed ires they are safe from almost most of the attacks. many companies actually either don't continue their security

policy or let the policy lapse. that is what causes the problem. charles: you are not suggestioning that someone at st.lst. louis fed did not have a password that was password. >> i am not saying that cannot happen. but there is perhaps malware or other viruses that can be left unchecked. charles: sandra, you know, the experts are staying sanguine about this, and saying it is no big deal, and saying they have turn control, yet, i don't think they do. it is pretty common, if you can get in federal reserve that means no one washing this show is safe. >> bottom line this is an embarrassment, this is a high profile security attack, federal reserve is using outside vendors, that is where the breach occurred, it was not with the fed, but with a vendor.

if the federal reserve has these vendors, they said no passwords were compromised. charles: but they got personal information on bankers. >> and who knows what other personal informationy. we only know what the fed is telling us at this point. charles: during that whole occupy movement, big crowds showed up at big bankers homes, they shouted add bankers and the banker's kids, they are. were vile, it seems that will be used for something we will not be able to brush off, ultimately from real dire consequences? >> absolutely, that information will be used by cyber criminals to further attack the other banking institutions. that is why this is of such concern. charles: so what do we do as an expert, you know, you talked about basic simple things.

but i have to tell you, i don't necessaaily feel secure. i have like i guess my thing is about 12 letters, a some bolle and a cup -- a symbol and a couple numbers long, is it this simple we come up with a creative password and we're okay? >> no, no, actually for banking applications, you should be using a hardened computer that is -- has been made immune or preveprevent the cyber threats,g your general home computer, which could be infected could lead to the issues. charles: at the end of the day that is what we use, there is also mobile, and telephone, we see is almost every day. >> and we're just worried about your e-mails, this is the federal reserve, we're worried about people finds out how much money is on balance sheet, how much is not on the balance sheet, how much gold they have, there is a lot of vital

information, and let alone reports that have yet to be released, this is a big security breach. but as i talked with a security professional, their answer will always be, it happens, right now we're in that state of mind where we have to know, and have to be prepared for the fact that security can be breached in all forms. we've not figured out how to lock up the federal reserve web site in a safe. charles: it feels like the bad guys areal ways still one step ahead of the experts. >> thank you, thank you very much. >> thank you. charles: unionized postal workers delivering badews, refusing to cut back, and refusing to cut back, and mailboxing taxpayers

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charles: the u.s. postal service, planning to cut saturday deliveries to cut its budget, but the le ter carrier

union is fighting it tooth and nail. talking about my next guest, postmaster general patrick donahoe. you have been a busy man today, law talk about this decision. no more saturday delivery of mail but there will be delivery of packages, right? >> correct. what has gone orville redenbacheover the last fewyearn first class mail, billions of dollars in revenue, and at same time, a nice increase in package business, we know the american public wants the package delivered on saturday, but they also do not want to take on tax burdens to bail us out. in terms of delivering mail more than 5 days a week, we take no tax money now, and we don't want

to take it. charles: by the same token, this will save perhaps $2 billion a year, but post offers lost $ 1 billion last year this is something akin to the pro verbal drop in the bucket. at some point unions they have to come to the table and make some sacrifices? >> the unions have played sacrifices, -- have made sacrifices, to give you an idea in last 4 years we reduced a head count by 193,000 people with the same work lloyd, key thing to remember about finance with we lost 15.9 billion last year, 11.1 was due to our inability to make a prefunding requirement for retiree health benefits, operating cost was closer to 2.5 billion, moving to things in our health care give us the ability to close the gap,

we have a 5 year plan if we make that happen, we get profitable, and can payoff our debt. charles: i don't' to be disrespectful it sounds something like a pipe dream, these are the same unions are saying they are considering suing you on this first move, what looks like the low hanging fruit of any part of your 5 year plan, you know stopping saturday delivery. you need some more participation to make this profitable, because right now it does sound like a pi dream. >> well, change is tough on anybody, like i said our employees do a great job, the key thing is we have to getur finances in order, there are three big product lines strong, commercials, first class mail, bills septembes sent to you, an, they are all good product lines get the rest of our finances straight we'll have a good

future. charles: and i have to tell you, i agree with you, it sounds like a business with that has to down size, and focus on profitable areas, which means fewer employees, you also have a problem with congress. it should be determined by legislation, rather than arbitrary action by postal service, not only will you have to fight against unions to achieve that plan but congress of the united states of america. >> congressman cummings is a very good guy, he is on our oversight, wild be -- we'll be working with him, i'm sure we'll come up with a win-win. charles: before i let you go, it is realistic that old folksy y americana, post office in rural america that gathered a gathering place we cannot support that any more, a lot of

changes will have to be made, a lot of people will lose their jobs, and a lot of small towns will lose their post offices? >> no, no, we have a good plan on small postal post offices, we can cutback on hours, and service but we can keep them all open. charles: thank you, mr. donahoe, a tough day for you, we appreciate your time. >> thank you. charles: columnist coachy said thi oncoreby said this is typicl union behavior, joined by jonas and sa sabrina shafer, what do u mine. >> the le letter union carriers have a point on one specific thing that congress is such on theed to have oversight of the postal service. so the fact there is no plan in place for postal service -- to pass a comprehensive reform, and a failure on the senate part,

they have not pass a budget in more than 13 hyundais, but that said -- 1300 days, but there will be painful cuts, and union at some point has to recognize the demand has changed. and we cannot continue to have %-always had it.ce as we've charles: sabrina, we've seen this play out in auto industry, and airline industry, and most recently hostess, you cannot fight the natural progression of economics, in this case there is a l against the post office including technology. are unions going to have to come to a reality, either we give in or the whole thing falls apart. >> they are going to have to come to the table. the reality is that americans e continually looking down on unions, they want to see them have less influence, because they seem to most americans to think about interest of

unionized workers at the expense of other workers, in this case the taxpayer, who no longer sees post office as a vital institution as it once was, there are many other private sort of competition now for the post offe from fedex to ups and that is causing problems, as much as they have tried to adapt it has not been adequate. charles: you know jonas it would be fantastic maybe if there was a way, in my mind for post office to sort of privatize and operation the business to the postmaster general's points. but a it doesn't look like it happens, unions have too much power and sway, it is not going down without a fight if you will. >> you know, the internet and congress, is what is destroying saturday delivery, the unions are not a positive, i don't want to say they are, it would be great if they could cost their labor cost in half. but, their competition, ups, and

fedex have labor problems and costs as well, difference is, ups can raise rates if fuel prices go up, and poor donahoe is doing a good job running post was with congress as oversight he cannot raise rates for first class stamps he has a lot of issues, more broadly speaking, is the post office model basically socialized anyway, you can mail a letter to alaska for less than 50-cents, it costs the same to go across town, the business mod sell suspect, -- model is suspect, it is subsidized rural delivery. you know phones north profitable -- are not profit i think to have this day through rural areas. >> tina, back to washington d.c., and we see a real inabum to cut spending any of kind but we know that we have a serious

fiscal calamity just up the road, so, what happens? what do you think happens with in post office situation? this whole thing did not happen overnight, yet if feels like it is scrum bells quickly -- crumbling quickly. >> charles, i am with you, and congressman darrell issa has made proposal to create a separate commission to oversee the postoffice, there are ideas to the table. and this proposal has been out there for a while, just now that postmaster is actually putting it into effect, it should have happened a long time ago, what happens, goes back to jonas' point, we have decide whether it is important to communicate to rural areas even if at a loss. charles: three or four day deliver to make it work? >> i agree, tina hit on

important points there has been a loss of 15 billion, but there has been a drop in the actual need or actual supply. people are using the post office much less than years past. in the end there is not the demand, i think that people will be satisfied with five-day delivery. charles: i think so too. it is progress, thank you. >> first north korea threatens to blow up new york city, now iran saying it is duked up, and iran saying it is duked up, and washington is stepping up dentures are very different to real teeth. they're about 10 times softer and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. polident kills 99.99% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. that's why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day.

charles: halftime in defense cuts kicking in big time. aircraft carrier in persian gulf 2-1, the same day that iran's president said quote, it's a nuclear state. >> angry as propaganda video released showing an attack on new york city, foreign affairs committee ed royce is leading this charge, congressman thank you for joining us. we're used ted toed to belidge m north korea but, really you say we must put an end to it right now. >> we need, to we found

something that worked in the past, you recall years ago when we cut north korea counterfeiting our $100 bills we put sanctions on the banks that did business with north korea so they could obtain no hard currency, that was very effective. and frankly, whether you bridge bring an economy down like that, for months, as a consequence, "the dictator" could not pay his generals, that is never a good position to be in, if we cut off that hard currency again, that is type of sa sanctions we're pushing more are for right now, we could have a real deterrent effect. charles: but, the fact is no matter what we've thrown at them, it seems they are 100% determined on this nuclear mission, not only to be a nukel ar power by export it as their

only form of income. >> now you know what the head of state is dreaming about. you see their three-stage icbm take off and headed toward the united states, then you see it hit new york city. i think given the fact that first of all they are involved in continuing with this program, second they have the iranians they are working with to give them the capability, yes, now is the time to move with types of sanctions that might also implode the regime, not only will it make it hard to get hard currency but it makes it hard to stay in power under a set of circumstances like that. it is too bad that state department lifted these sanctions some years ago. because they were -- they were proving so effective at the time. charles: representative, you mentioned iran, today, mahmoud ahmadinejad visited egypt. we talk about the difficulty of trying to you know to gather

these two bad actors, and it really make its more difficult, when to our point, we don't keep sanctions in place, and whether would be allies -- when would be allies that we give a lot of money to reach out a hand of represent to them legitimizing those regimes? >> that is a good point, today we put in place a new sit of sanctions, which ratchet down the aim of oil that any government can accept from iran, but also require this is a universal suddention imposed in -- sanction imposed to world, instead of sending hard currency in exchange for that oil, only goods will be sent to iran, if your currenciy is virtually worth lesless as it is in iran r north korea, and you put

sanctions in place, and you cut off mark fret petroleum exported, that also will create many difficulties internally for the iranian regime, we should do this 24/7, applying to every pressure point. >> one minute that we have left, how does this relate to what is going on in washington with respect to sequestration, it feels that republicans are behind going through with this, but we feel there is a serious impact including a morally lidge belink belligerent iran and north korea. >> other cuts in the bureaucracy is the approach that i want to take because an emboldened north korea and iran is very

problematic, given attitudes of kim jong-un and mahmoud ahmadinejad, they are unstable folks, and you don't know what they will do, we want a credible defense, and we also with a new set of sanctions would like to bring these governments down. charles: representative royce, one of your colleagues called the north korea video tasteless and vile, i have to agree, i am glad you are up there fighting a good fight thank you. >> thank you, charles. charles: what do you think? with north korea threatening us, how some the u.s. reaction, tweet to us, we'll read them letter this hour. >> democrats are pushing for more spending but the budget was on the said they might have it

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jedediah says this is prove this will need to stop, but dennis kucinich said more spending will help. a lot of people were somewhat surprised by that. we talked about tough medicine that ronald reagan and paul volcker put in place that hurt initially but blossomed into the most, amazing economy recovery. >> the bottom line is that the cuts need to happen, if you don't look at the reform of entitlindictments and made cared made cade. these are -- medicare and medicaid, we're seeing to future generations you will be carrying a debt burden, there ma may be e short-term pains for long-term gains. charles: we can all do the math.

we all see what happened in greece. we know where this leads, yet we keep being told it is not the right time, not the right time. not the right time. >> you cannot payoff the debt. by cutting spending, only way to pay off the debt is through tax revenues, not raising taxes. by creating jobs so people can pay taxes, what is going to happen, if they go through with sequestration, we'll lose 2 million jobs, that is 2 million families issue of real people, adding to that 9% unmuch. that drains the economy, this is the wrong approach, i'm here so day it. >> that is what mitt romney was saying, he said, i'm not looking to raise people's taxes, i am looking to get more people employed that will in turn bridge more tax money into the government. let's not tax job creators but get more people working.

charles: that -- what do you cut? >> you have to look at how debt is created. we're all worried about the debt, got that but the fact is, that you could spend every dime that government has,. charles: and we do. >> wait, in retiring debt. you will still have debt. there is an exponential increase in the interest, we have to get our heads away from the fact our first thing is to just retire debt by cutting spending by saying let's create jobs, and grow the economy then you can gradually improve the economy profile of the country. charles: here is the problem. can we have a world where there is so much government borrowing, and so much government spending and still have an optimal economic situation, you talked about interest, at some point wild pay a trillion in year in

interest, can we have a nation that is paying a trillion in interest, and still take advantage? >> no, we have to take a different approach. i talked about national emergency employment government defense act, the government plays a role by taking control, not borrowing money from china or japan or south korea, but by creating the resources to be able to grow america. charles: you say creating resources printing money? >> to create jobs. >> wait, here is the thing, we need to grow the my vat sector private sector, and public they work synergistically, if you talk spending. do we need to cut waste less spending? absolutely, 16 years in congress, i can tell you trillions of dollars are wasted, the people have a right to pects

their money will be spend wisely, we have to be careful we don't put people out of work, the government should be involved ied in opportunity, not raising taxes but incentivizing the private sector. charles: this porta part bother, when i hear that government should create jobs, this feels bet for government getting out of the way, instead of an avalanche of rules and new taxes, and the rhetoric that goes with that. they would move out of the way, america has proven over last 200 years, that the private sector will do the rest. >> that is the problem ideology light now, barack obama and his administration value truly belit is the government's job to create a stimulus, what can we

do to help? what they can do to help is get out of the way. the cuts need to be targeted cut. we know what is driving the debt, it would be absurd to ignore that fact and go after random things or go after defense at a time when national security is concerning, and go after the entitlements, every politician is afraid it talk about the indic the entitlement, they are afraid they the inspect will not be voted back in. >> that their money. charles: the first person that got a social security check, put in a hundred bucks and took out 20,000, people do put money in, but let's not suggest that someone who put in $ 100,000

will live from 65 to 90, and get a million. >> they are not. charles: but we have over promised, w cannot deliver on a promise we made unless something draft 6 done. 6ic is done. >> what is -- draft 6 done. >> we're a country that should value entrepreneurship. that should make it possible for people to grow wealth, but when people have made a contribution, and paid into the system they get something back that is what i'm concerned. >> that is true. >> we'll have to leave it there, this is fantastic. i think we will chipping away at it. -- >> the president's health care law may sound sweet to some but we have scary news that wi officemax is celebrating our new collaboration with go daddy! with an online package including: domain name, website builder with five pages and basic email just $49.99!

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>> no matter how we reform healthcare, we'll keep this product it to the american people, if you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. period. >> you can keep your doctor, if you like your doctor, or health care plan, you can keep it. >> if you like your doctor, keep him. >> you will be able it keep your health playe care plan. period. charles: well, president of the not right, 7 million people will be pushed out of their health care plans, nearly twice as many as expected. is the plan all wrong? tina? >> none comes as a surprise. the cbo report is telling us what we already knew.

who said they were not going to be able to abide by the new restricts on cash, they want to cap the amount of benefits they pay out. it is common sense if you make it unprofittic for insurance companies to did business, they don't. charles: the key word is common sense, if i'm an employer i can pay a certain penalty for not insuring my wor workers or a hue aim to insur them under that plan, we should have known this was going to happen, i think when they continue to sharpen their pencils i believe this number goes higher. >> i agree, estimated that 78 million americans would not longer have a while car -- healh

care plan, businesses are bebetween a rock and a hard place, they are being mandated to provide a government approved budget or pay a moderate penalty and send their workers to state exchanges, the math is easy for a lot of businesses, a lot of americans are losing their plans. charles: the counter argument the whole time is that a good employer the go ahead and pay for this, as something akin to a fringe benefit. it does not look like it is happening. >> first of all, it's not your health plan, it is disney's or ups or whoever you work for. the fact that you have did discretion over it is a fantasy, a lot of companies i heard that 90% will provide it a huge hole in the tax code where company pays your insurance, it is not

taxable income to you, they would prefehr to pa prefer to pr -- i lot will get kicked out. because it doesn't make sense for all levels of employees of the income for company to do it, there is a subsidize plan cooked up by the governmt if you are low income that makes more sense for people to be on. charles: sabrina? >> we're seeing the impact of this, look at darden restaurant, and red lobster and the olive garden, this is a jobs killer, they are transferring people from full-time jobs to part time jobs to get out of paying for health care benefits, only real solution is to look away from business sponsored while care plans for people who own their health c.a.r.e., when they leave a job or government interferes they own the dollars. >> isn't that the result, if you

get kicked off the company plan, you have to buy a plan yourself, is that a better solution than current plan when which is nonsense where your company has to pay for your insurance anyway, they don't pay your car insurance or momen home insuran, why should they pay our health insurance the. charles: negative in a sent that certain promises were made to the american public, a lot of people are not prepared to follow the plan and go out and buy there are own healthy care, they are looking for their implementer to buy it -- their employer to buy it, that was promised to them by federal government. >> i keep thinking of 48 million who was uninsured before, they were uninsured for a lot of reasons one is that it is just hard to get motivated and research and look for a plan.

there are problems with that under obamacare as well, if is clear they had no plan for what to do if states decline to build exchanges, my home state of oklahoma declined there is no legal funding mechanism for federally run exchanges in the state. those people who are depending on the exchanges they might be out in the coil a cold as well. charles: i want a sense, do you think that the -- we will not have single -- but government will do the bulk of ensuring of employees, jonus? >> employees no, nonemployees yes, they already are with medicare, and medicaid. the workforce, until they get rid of tax deduction, there is some effects of that down the road, but in general, tax deduct exists where an employer has an insense offer tincentive to payy

will for a while. >> my gust said that government will be more and more involved, but i bishe wish that were not the case, i think that private companies could do a bitter -- bet ter job, government cannot do charities,. charles: sabrina. >> sadly, government will get more involved. but people should pay attention to fact it does not make sense for everyone to receive everything. it does not make economy sense. charles: a lot of people will not get to keep their health care provider, thank you we appreciate it see you soon. >> all right. this is kim jong-un our viewers are going off over this north