in general and people who follow the stock and published their findings. >> god forbid he devote his life to itt. i am kidding. >> cost freedom continues in the business news. >> crossing the graduation line and stand negligent bail out line. student loan defaults . banks are writing off more than three billion in debt and we are at crisis levels. some here say it is time to get the government out of this business before it is too late. welcome to forbes on fox. rick unger and rich and elizabeth and john and morg an, so steve, the president said getting the private bankings out of the student loanand more government has it

made it worse. >> it is. college costs continue to go up killing the middle class parents and kids. instead of catapulting a career it is it an albatross because the degree is indebtedness. get the government out so colleges learn to cut costs and have it three years instead of four years and on line and those reforms so you get an education to get ahead and starting out behind. >> student loans are up 90 percent of all student loans are begin bypass the government; is that too much? >> i acknowledge the problem. it is difficult for the kid andchools. but there is it a critical public policy issue here we can't forget. you take away studentoans from the government, you are really saying from this moment on, people only with money can

go to college. you don't want a country where you have to be wettley to go to college. it is it a way to destroy the middle class. >> rich, one of the worst thing about goverent loans, they don't check rorpeds. privat loans do. they check credit history and the government does not. guess what is defaulting, the government loans. >> you have a negative feed back loop. college costs are going up 7 and half percent per year over the last 20 years. why? because they can. the government loans will be there. the bubble will pop. state universities costs prohibitively $30,000 a year? most kids will not get a return on that iestment and they will default on their loans is a big bubble thal pop

and damage the economy. >> morgan, we are reaching the trillion dollar mark and as i said 90 percent of them are government and they don't do credit checks and this ease are dangerous loans. >> the whole system nes to be revamped. right now currently it is it the lesser of two evils. look at private loans for a second. they might do credit history checks and do variable interest checks if you depefault and repayments are more stringent and sally may is selling them off in slab loans that. is an issue. talk about the bubble beyond student loans, look at private loans. >> haven't we learned anything. we are suchering from the subprime housing crisis. we learned that nonchecked loans are dangerous and now we have a trillion worth of these loans from students?

>> no income, no job, no problem. we'll give you the loan. no income, and no job is what students are fac with. this is the problem. it is the universities and collegeshat are gouging the middle class. they are charging a lot much money for degrees . that is the issue. the business model for universities and collegings - colleges are nonprofit and live off the taxpayer nickel. universities, stop gouging middle class and get the degrees that are useful . in you do that and degrees that people can get jobs with, get rid of the 83 overlapping federal training work training and do it right in the beginning with the college doing right. >> we are see heavily weighted with the government loans. federal reserve bank cited 93 percent of the student loans

are made by the government and again they are not credit tested. i can't emphasize it enough. anyone who fogs a mirror can get a student loan. >> absolutely. rick talkthe feds get out of the student loans that. is what is happening, the feds are volved in student loans. if you remove the federal government distortion and bring costs back down and if costs, and degrees are as valuable as rick said. banks will readily loan students less money to go to college at a lower price. >> i see morgan shaking the head. lending standards are not existent morgan. >> that is true. but there is any other reason college tuition is going up. state government is cutting down the subsidies to the

local colleges. >> why, wait a minute. we are we throwing subsidies in a rotten system. they are gouging the american people and they have to change the business model and stop overcharging. >> but either way i agree but government money is involved. >> it is in the middle of the fight. go ahead. >> what it boils down to, instead of continuing the bad thing how to get out of the it as soon as possible. >> you phase them out and make it clear to the universities at the days are over . you want to borrow. go to a ask you if the government is not back stopping. what degree will you get? >> hold on a second. rick, that is a great question. what am i getting for this student loan. not only is the country at risk with a trillion dollars down the drain.

but things like psychology. >> and number one. you try to get a decent white collar job without a college degree. it is not happening. you talk about credit worthiness. how many 17 year old kids have a credit history. you can't check it. >> the family should . by the way, you can check it and john, the private sector sally may which is the private lender does good credit checks and their default rate is going down. government default rate is going up. they do credit checks in the private sector. >> they should. you shouldn't give out loans that you don't think will be paid back . if they are making if more difficult they are goingo college in three years rather than four years. >> i'm sorry, that's what you do in college.

cut the nonprofit status. >> quick last word from steve. >> sector reduced costs and get more for less . we should do it in education and stop ripping off the middle class. >> coming up next. remember this. >> we'll insure that the reform we pass bringings down the crushing dosts of healthcare. >> if healthcare costsere crushing back then, wait until you see what is happening to them now. new numbers on the president's healthcare law that could make copd makes it hard to breathe, but with advair, i'm breathing bett. so now i can be in the scene.

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>> the consequence of the affordable care act premiums are going to be lower than they would be otherwise. healthcare costs over all would be lower than otherwise. reduces most people's premiums and brings down our deficit one trillion over the next decades because we are spending our healthcare dollars more wisely and slowing the growth of healthcare costs. >> it is a big let down and new study revealing that healthcare companies would pay 32 percent more in claims .

it is it will all because of the healthcare laws. you say it is a tine sign of more bad news to come. >> it was verified by kathleen sebluous. she couldn't hide the fact like president obama does. it is going to get worse. recent survey of companies now say that 50 percent of the companies are going to drop out of covering health insurance despite paying $2000 per person to do. a year ago it 30 percent. every time you look at the monstrosity, the news gets worse. >> the wall street had a well reported piece saying that premiums are going to double. >> rich is right when he pointed out secretary sebluous did identify it. >> he left out the details.

this makes great headlines. let's get in to a few of the details. this only applies to individual market place . number two it does not speak to premium costs and not taking into consideration that it is in the individual market where you are going to see the subidies . it doesn't talk about the $20 billion fun for insurance that lessens the impact. you have to dig into it deeper. >> steve, hasn't the main stream media been very kind to the -- >> and absolutely . what hay leave out is that people will gn the system. why pay up? pay $2000 and a year and a fine instead of $8000 and where does the money come from. get sick and you get the insurance . you will have higher costs

because people only get it where they need it young people's insurance costs will go up more. they are taking it from the elderly. >> emac, you have a wonderful track record of predicting costs going up and down. >> i am flattered that you say that. i don't like to be self referencial. but my mental health premium is going up listening to what the president and to cover dram mine that i need listening to him. it is it up 13 percent under obama care. aetna, said 20-50 percent . they are hiking healthcare premiums. why? they have figured it out. we will pay the penalty . we'll not pay for healthcare right now. we'll sit it out and wait it out. you get sicker people in the pool and that's why the health

exchange . we talking aut subsidies are paid for by the federal taxpayers. we'll have pay for that just like california's did. >> john, it comes down to simple path. if you force companies to do more which they have to, it would cost more? >> if you offer more it will cost more. this is a federal government disaster. the simple truth sthere is no health insurance without healthy people . steve and elizabeth pointed out. they have no incentive to get health insurance until they need it you have the least healthy into that . that will drive up prices. rick lasteek talked about how one size fits all for collegings. why does he want that for healthcare? >> sabrina do you think? >> i agree with everybody here. snee>> she said everybody

here, rick. >> and the majority of obama care is not going affect until 20flane and we have hundreds of provision . think about the provision so-call would children can stay on their parent's insurance plan at age 26. now i can be on my parents plan but i was married? >> this costs up to $450 and not even in the guaranteed issue provision. there are serious costs out there. >> not necessarily a bad thing but the fact is, you can't do it for free. >> premiums will come up for younger people but come down for older people. who will get the subsidies? the younger people who make less money. >> wait a minute. the mandate tax will go up, david. it is not a big enough stick to get them to buy health insurance.

i tell you something, you think health reform expensive. wait until it is supposely free. >> look at the soviet union. you can't get healthcare . why not move in the free market. turn scarcity in to abundance. government means scarcity for all ofulse. >> steve is absolutely right. it is a squandered opportunity and we should be able to seize and with all of the technologil advances, we can have both and better and wider coverage at an affordable costs. >> let's leave it on that optmistic point. >> and why does the new nike ad shows tiger woods. upset some. company putting money over morals.

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>> pay for what you weigh. plains packed and expert plan to make club passengerings pay for. declaring they pay their weight and pony up a fat sur. john, this is harsh but a good

business mood. explain the flip side. >> modern times, airlines are going through bankruptcy . s firsts. in this case. one airline experiments and something that could expand and if it doesn't no one will do it. >> it is important to experiment with the idea and how we move forward. >> and so steve give it a shot. >> this is a mother load for trial lawyers. discrimination and scales in the airport and bad enough for the tsa . the traffic most of the us are over weight and we'll be humiliated and a nonstarter and talk about kiss did crimination asians little smaller than africa-american and caucasians and the discrimination suits will flied . the airline that try it they

will be weighed down in bankruptcy. >> i am not saying it is a good pr and how they would implement it. if it costs more to provide serve they have a right to stry this. it is going to be difficult. it costs more the heavier the plane is . an economist said if they reduce 2.2 pounds it saves 3000 gallons of fuel. >> don't you have to weigh people before it flies straight. >> weight is a serious concern when you are taking off from denver on a summer day. 20 people had to be off loaded or it wouldn't get off of the run ways and they are long in denver. steve is right it is cruel . we don't need to do it. it is it self limited because

the seats limit how big people can be to fly in coach. it is don go airlines. >> i am with steve on this. i wouldn't be able to fly. i gained a few pous. and the guy who came up with this must way 105 pounds. >> strong earningings for the first quarter and find out which stockings you should buy for the rest of the year. for the rest of the year. thatatatatat the capital one cash rewards card gives you 1% cash back on all purchases, plus a 50% annual bonus. and everyone but her... no. no! no. ...likes 50% more cash. but i don't give up easy... do you want 50% more cash? yes! yes?! ♪

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>> we are back and so far so good. we had a strong quarter earnings . for the rest of 2013 . emac ogempt>> they are observingly the parent company much oklahoma's biggest gas and electric utility d diversifying in natural gas and sweet dividend yields. >> what do you like morgan. we have seen two analyst down. >> and you like travelers company . it is upgrading the stock. and that is a recent warning came out of travelers and hangs on whether they can raise the rates on customers and face stiff competition. aig insurance division.