>> we've never done well with land war in china. i agree, if they make a move, they fire one rocket, we fear 10 bacfire 10back at them. lou: thank you for joining us. >> immigration push that has so businesses telling washington, to pullback. welcome i am charlie gasparino in -- charles payne in for neil cavuto, business and union leader work with congress to come up with a framework, some republicans are worried that a rushed bill will not work, they are concerned this will turn into a health care debacle. i am sure you remember that washington watchers, and michelle fields and jenna loud en. you know, it seems like everyone on the same page, so-called gang

of 8, everyone is making nice, marco rubio expressed something that a lot of us are worried about. push out a bill to appease the public. and finding out unlikely bid. >> you know, i think that democrats and republicans are looking to fast track the bill, marcoube rubio is putting out a stop of. that will provide time for grassroots conservatives to mobilize, and pro amnesty folks to mobilize and call their congressman and demand they vote one way or the other and have protests. they are worried if a congressman has their constituents down their throat calling them, they will vote no. but right now with legislative momentum, someone on the fence is more likely to join yes. charles: what do you make of

this? a lot of people have fingers cross that maybe both sides can get something done, and washington does work. >> i think it like they put a preverbal bomb on our front porch, we don't know what is in it until we open it we have seen this before, that is a pattern of our elected officials in washington d.c. who think they know better what is good for us, that is not the case, we already have evidence of obamacare finding out what we're getting after. we know what that has cost. and you look at our unemployment rates and spending on social welfare, i don't see how we can afford a surprise package. i think being delib rahtive, and calm and getting the opinion of american people might count for something. charles: one reason that

politics are not popular, they feel they don't get a lot done, easy to understand anxiety over a possible pand dora's box. it has been talked about for a long time, both sides agreeing something should be done, what kind of pace should be taken. >> first, as general policy it is good when things don't happen in washington. our founding fathers created a system of separation of power because they did not want a lot happening in town. having said that, there is no question, nobody is happy with our current immigration sim, we have to see what is the bill. i am confident. that hopefully we'll get something that is rational and moves the country forward. charles: i guess it does come down to that maybe we have to accept the fact that people who are involved in this, rubio,

flake, maybe for some people mccain, they have our best interest at heart, they will look out for us. or otherwise it probably -- >> no. charles. you don't think so? >> i don't crust politicians -- i don't trust patrol tigs, they need to allow importan americane know what is in the bill, the last significant immigration bill was in 1982 that was put forth in senate. before it was there were 300 witnesses, 100 hours of hearings this bill we had 3 hearing this year, that is not enough. it needs to be taken more seriously and slowly. slowly. charles: we will put you down in a nancy pelosi column. what is it that people are afraid of? >> you know, michelle is right on this i think whether we rush

-- when we rush, this is an o rule, moms know this, haste makes waste, you just down jump into things like this, and cynicism among american people is something that politicians need to listen, there is a big opportunity here. and that is for politicians to say, hey american people, we care what you think. let's have a dialogue. let's stop pontificating from about what we tell you, you need, but let's step back and listen to the american people, i think that american people are ready to be adults about this. charles: i think that gina has a great point, i think that american public have, they talk about the adult in the room. it has been the american public so far, but having said that. we have this public debate, you will get halff the people say i like this,ment this, demand, that and other. half. is there a certain way that

would move us backward? >> i think it depends on the package, whether they did it with one hour of hearings or 100, if the 4 republicans in gang of 8 manage to hold firm in terms of getting something good in terms -- garycharles: hold on one second, what is good thing you want or that you think that republicans should be fighting for? >> we believe, that imgrowt immn has been good for america. we want it to be lawful, we don't' illegal immigration, the question is, whether or not they are putting together a good package. that is what it boils down to. when you want immigration, you want people immigrating here for work and studdnt, not for welfare state. in the long rain we better figure out you to to deal with this dependency agenda we've been getting from crowd in washington for last 12 years.

charles: we're getting closer, a lot of people felt president obama more or less buying votes pushing that deal. what would make this a bad deal for the american people? >> well, a bad deal for american people is millions of people coming into this country, and continuing social welfare bilking as we have now. i know. a bad dial for americanss -- del would be we have how many people out of work? how many millions, and we're going to add to that job waiting list? a bunch of influke of workers coming here, and taking american jobs, one good thing that become out of this is securing our borders. i am curious why this is not something that a lot of folks are not talking about. i think that republicans should be pushing hard for that. charles: ironic that mccain

was at the border and saw someone jumping over last week. to you, michelle, feels weird, we send people back to their home krein country to set up soe firms and their own business, should that be a tralart. >> we want to keep those people here in this bad economy we want people who'll open businesses, and add to our economy, i think deporting those people after they get their education, is the wrong move. >> by the way, switzerland, australia, new ze land, and canada, they have immigration simms that havehat component we should copy that. charles: you are right, you cannot become a citizen in new zealand, if you do not have something to offer. all right, guys thank you. >> coming up here, if you goof off your boss is not paying up,

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charles: so, if you are slacking off, don't expect your employer to pony up, but those rules don't apply for union teachers. they don't want salaries tied to performance. to scotty neil hughes who said this is textbook exam else was example of how out of touch unions are.

for a lot, merit pay is like the basis for work. we sort of work, we're measured by our work and paid by how well we do that. >> this is a great example of it does not matter what you do, what you teach, how well you teach or if you show up, as long as you have tenure, you get to keep your job. that is only place in america that this work is in our education system. charles: we're talking about you know, teachers who say, you can't evaluate our performance based on how kids do on tests, you can't base it on this or that. well how do we encourage you and get a better school system when everyone agrees we have a bad one. >> this shows we have a track record of education not makes sense, why would teachers expect get paid off merit if they never had that issue. unfortunately teachers do not live in the real world if we

judge every other le we have with education system, no wonder we're going bankrupt. charles: this seems logical, maybe logic 101, we understand in third grade, our students understand it earlier they are sort of rewarded based on merit? >> you know, charles, i don't get paid by fox, i'm not sure what that says about my merits. but. going to teachers, this is one of those legislative initiatives that in theory, in logic makes sense, but in application, you need to be careful could for example, woo teachers it is not about your work product or mine. it is about -- will about the students, nnw what they are talking about basing the merit bay, or tenure on is how students do on the standardize test, fine, but the tests are only based on 40% of the

students subject. so if you are gym teacher, your subject is not on the tests, right? so you are being -- >> come on. >> you are being knocked for the student's reading level. charles: oh,. >> that is what it is based on. charles: to gary, that stuff c be worked out, you start with a student, you say kid takes an aptitude test, we see a base, and judge how well the kid does, what is wrong with that? >> i think that is perfect. account built billty is key wor, through out country costs are high, results are low that has to be changed in real world, in your world and my world, we are basically looked at and rated on how good we are, we get promoted, we make more or get

demoted and make less if we're not doing a good job. if you are a teach te teacher io be based on something, braids grades maybe with something along with this. >> sasha, i think that is something we can agree on, this is a serious problem. and it feels like, teachers, their power their job, job security always coming before the kids, that at some point, everyone has to be honest about this. >> charles, i'm not disagreeing on the idea of being paid based on merit. i am saying if you don't have any control, because you are an art teacher or history teacher, 60% of teachers we're talking about if you have no control of their reading level, because you teach them gym that does not make sense, they are putting a hole on it buzz this -- hold it othey are saying does that paper

performance make sense. do we judge a teacher because of their classroom, but not a test of reading level. charles: beam me up scotty, what is wrong with that. >> there will be basic exceptions. charles: gym teacher will noting responsible. >> not the way it is writt right now. >> let's look at it, reason why we're having this conversation because unions, have corrupted our education system. they have broken it, and they are causing the local governments and school sims to go bankrupt, even teach that are paid average $774,000 like in chicago are bankrupting those cities, and they are shutting down 54 schools, that is reason we're having this conversation, not only are they producing in the classroom but they are bankrupting our country. >> i was going to say, you can have a issue with the teacher

union but to make blanket statement about teachers, you know, i had a lot of great teachers. charles: i guess, sasha, let me -- before i switch to you gary. that is what we're talk ba great teacher has a chance to e elevae them 12s, migrate teachers, they would have seen great grades from me, it would have reflected on them. >> that is a great point, there are great teachers out there there are good teachers but there are also crappy teachers, we have to ferret them out if they are not getting the job done, there has to be some way, some measures stick in florida, there is going to be more specificity on who gets what and who is graded on what, no longer your teacher -- so they are moving toward that, and i think it will will work. but most important thing, if teachers know they are being looked at, a little bit more closely with a little bit -- with bigger microscope, they are

apt to be worked that were harder to make it better going forward. >> called accountability, we want to put great teachers on a pedda stool. >> when a government backs a company and it fails you don't hear a peep from mainstream media but when that same company makes a little bit of money, makes a little bit of money, there is

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charles: the electric car gets juiced by the media. read the headlines, tesla got 465 million bucks from federal government, but when it was struggling the media did bash it but they failed to mention that the white house backed it.

i guess one out of x, y, z is not too bad. you see a lot of media hypocrisy. >> first off we don't know if they are going to turn a profit. we'll see what the profit. is and hois andhow much it is. and a lot with bad press that tesla has gone getting because of the "new york times" test drive. when the companies like solyndra go south, it is not obama's fall but, if they show some promise, then oh, he gets all of the credit. charles: it drives me nuts, this is not isolated. this is modus operandi of media. >>ure, president obama can do nothing wrong, everything he touches turns to gold, if

something fails, it is george w. bush fault or that is the way it happens. arles: not a lot of solyndra, it was a big political issue. we don't see a lot with some of the green companies that seem to go out of business almost every day. or either real media, i have a problem with, real media old school reporting where someone digs in says, you know we give this solar company x amount of money, a couple hundred million, they admit on their web site, created 15 permanent jobs, i never see outrage over that. >> no we've not had a full accounting of 80 billion-dollars of stimulus money that went into green jobs, and clean tech industry, we have another company like fisker, another company, backed by obama administration, they are on the verge' perspectiv' bankruptcy, y maker, a123 who almost went

bankrupt, they were bought by chinese and they changed name to b456. charles: really? >> yes. charles: i never heard that. we gave china pretty adam lanza vaadvancetechnology with that d. >> it is chalked up as a sale not a failure. charles: again most of media, and it is just way it goes, like there is really no shame, no pride in what media used to be with respect to a role, if felt like media had a role, an obligation to the public, it did not matter whether they liked person they were reporting bore not. >> well -- reporting about or not. >> this is civic journalism they found something good, which is

president obama. they want to push it the important thing about green engineer stuff, you look at california, they said a couple weeks ago they have been losing 10% a year on clean energy, they are getting out. but, you never read that in mainstream media, because clean tech is future, and president obama is behind it, and isn't that great, and that is the way it is. you have to go to alternative media and fox to find out reality. charles: do you technology chan? do you see -- do you think it will change? any hints there will be more responsible journalism. >> no, i think it is going to get worse with a crop of young journalists that have come of age in he their media, where truth is relative, and dependso on who says it, i don't think they know how to do honest, shoe

leather journalism, i cover a lo of science. at junk science.com, coverage is horrible that is why this is giving rise to this industry on web sites like mine. charles: looking at the agenda and how things are being pushed on us, and new reality, and real norms and truisms you will be busy for a long time, thank you. >> thank you, charles. charles: well you know republican party is launching a search party, trying to find itself, but could g.o.p. be reverting back to same problem that led to a big 2012 loss?

charles: the grand old party, a party in search of an identity, who conservatives are blasting back at republican establishment, arguing that g.o.p. did not lose the elect on social issues, and tea partier, says they are focusing on wrong issue they should be focus on on taxes and debt on win back voter, katrina. immediate post modum, how could you lose all those voters and you say after that not it. that is still place guided? >> i do, i believe that republicans are having such a hard time communicating to their

base, and i don't think that going outside of their principles will win them over any more votes, we have to stick to when we know works, tea partiers turned out and returned congress to republican party in 2010, not because they were republicans, not because they were morally on the right side. but because we topped return the fiduciary issues back to where u.s. government should be within the u.s., and the people who make it great. charles: do you feel like at some point, you talked about the base, hard to argue that base is not getting older and smaller. at some point do you have to articulate your core values to your noncore audience? even if you say have won last elect with strategy you describe, there some point, you have to figure out how the to include other people or get other to embrace that message? >> well, absolutely. you know, in the last -- 2012

primary, republicans spend 3 months during president's primary talking about abortion, which in fact, the federal reserve is pumping out trillions of dollars from thin air, and the congress, is complacent in spending trillions of dollars. when we had have been fighting on the economy, we were talking about birth control, that turns people off, national republicans need to understand that social engineering is outside of the scope of federal government anyway. charles: i guess you would see i don't know, ronni, ron -- ironya party person would talk about this, a lot of candidates made these huge mistakes? >> let's correct the record, most of candidates that made those mistakes were not tea party candidates, let's talk about todd akin. respectrepublicans like to calla

tea party candidate but he was not, moving forward, is focus on founding principles of nation, the founding document is there it is being eroded and republicans have been complacent. they will continue to lose, they should be fighting today they continue to kick the can down the road, they areondering why vote for a republican if they are just going to govern like a democrat. charles: interesting, becse now, when you talk about recent polls, i have seen where, people are more concerned about debt then almost anything else, that was a huge winning midterm election item that shifted dynamic in washington d.c. and to your point it felt like republicans forgot about how bad the economy was, the deficit, and debt, and this thing. how could that happen. is this that there is no central

leadership, if feels like a rude rudeless -- rudderless ship right now. >> you are right. considering the base is the one they need to get behind the party, and base is concerned, about the solvency of our nation, about the col centsy of our state -- col centsy of our sol vents of our state. charles: i have less than a minute, i want to ask about you since sequestration it feels that president obama over played his hand, just snatching victory from defight or one of those scenarios, but, where does g.o.p. go from here, they seem to have something that proves to public, you know, the doom and bloo that president talks about with respect to living within our means did not come.

it do not ered o erode our coury overnight. >> if they are smart they will picky back off that. this just reinforcing base to hold republican's feet to fire to press on. charles: tha you, katrina pearson. next time you get on a plane, you may have to step on a scale, one area line, has decided to charge you by the pound. oh, roh not your luggage but you. can airlines make you pay up for weighing them down? that is next.

charles: airline fees out of control, they charge you for snacks and your bags and for gas, one airline is charging for

how much you weigh. samoa air will charge per pound. now to attorneys whether it is legal. tamara disagrees, it sounds like it is their airline. >> i think that best part is people who travel with kids, they are paying less. i think if you travel with kids you should pay more money. because, you know -- nobody wants to travel with a screaming kid. but look, you are paying for real estate of your seat. and for them to pick and choose, who how much they will charge you, you are not a protected class legally. it still unfair, not a good business practice. charles: i got to tell you, why would it be samoan airlines, first one out of gate, they are -- you know not the slimmest population out there you know.

>> well, that is true, you know charles, simply put in airline industry, weight is money, the heavier the plane the more fuel is takes more it costs airline, this policy is taking that into correction, and i think that is fairest way to charge. because you are only charged what it costs to transport yourself. you know if you do it any other way you have like tamara said, smaller people, smaller size individual subsidizes cost of airfare for bigger people. charles: what about notion, then, last time i was on a small plain, i could not fit in a toilet stall, you know, if you charge me by pound you better give he a bigger say the, a bigger toilet and a bigger soft drink that keeps us fat. come on, where do we draw the line? >> charles you are saying that, large person, is a fat person, that is what samoa airline is saying, that is not necessarily

true, you are a big guy but under that suit you are fit, trim. charles: i am choice illed out you are right -- chiseled out. >> you are chiseled yes. charles: we call i hard fat. if i am going to pay extra should i get serviced you know, take care of me. if i pay more, and i am spilling out over the safety belt, i am being mistreated. >> you should not be rewarded, should we have smaller people subsidize cost for you or others to fly in it is not discrimination. you can have an guy, 6-4, the guy here at venice beach he will pay more, why because it costs more to transport him. charles: i tell you, i read before the segment in '93% of

american samoan population were overweight, this is to me discridiscriminatory. >> number one weight is not a froakd class. not like gender or race something like that however, aside from more detailed legal argument, if you look at what their statement circumstance samoan airline statement, they said to bring walkernes -- awaro obese people. charles: is this a copiration that is -- corporation that is doing something forked good of the people. >> that is a bit -- the end of the day airlines are a business. that is the purpose of businesses, as long as the policies are not discriminatory,

then, they can do; that it is legal for them to do that. charles: i bet you they don't have a lot of competition, in the areas they are flying, if they do the competition will win, they will lose, i have to tell you, i heard about it a got nervous, i hope at very least, put a few spinners or a treadmil in the lounge. you know, help me out a little bit. i'm worried if every airline does this, i'll be taking trains and buses from now on. thank you, really appreciate it. all right forget throwing granny off the cliff, now news that more college kids are looking to live with granny. why the new reality show could become everyone's reality. >> i really don't care what you people think. >> that is an old man mentality. >> i can't find my underwear. >> i only wear thongs. >> what? with the spark cash card

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>> oh, my god, we're going to be living with old people. >> no. >> i don't use this [ bleep ] >> this generation is so busy with texting, they are not talking to one another. >> i'm ready to party, and let loose, woo! >> can you teach an old dog new tricks? charles: all right, 5 old-timers, 5 youngsters living under the same roof, a new reality series, forever young, with our national debt soaring through the roof, they may have to get used to it news, one in four teens are planning to pooch ofpoochoff their parents and

grandparents. series premiers this wednesday, 10:00 p.m. on tv land, welcome. >> premises is fantastic. when they told you about the show artur, what did you think? are they serious? >> serious, they put me through mental and physical test in new york city before i was since to california to make sure i of ready. >was ready. >> muscle. >> to have earth, wind and fire. charles: you were ready? >> he was ready more than me. charles: we talk about this, and there is a generation divide, and people, this generation does not understand that generation, i assume that initially there was a lot of conflict between the two generations, did you find yourself as show progressed fined more in common than you initially thought. >> absolutely.

what i did was i fell in love with the young 5. all 5 young kids. they touched my heart. >> there were crazy high jinxes i would imagine? >> definitely, the whole thing is, you know going in there age, you know, but, when you actually got to know people's personalities and see how they are add individual -- are as individuals yo are like wow, i can hang out with that guy. charles: what about respect part? that is where you get a lot of problems, you know i am sure you had different backgrounds and producers were selective in mixing the right cocktail, i am sure they wanted some edginess. was there a problem with respect on both sides? did you feel that? >> at first, a little bit. because, you know, the first day, you know, the older guy, lou and emily were stubborn as far as learning something from

us. that kind of got on my nerves, i was like, i feel like i learned something from you, why don't you feel that you can learn something from me, you know. charles: i guess there was a part about the wars that we've been engaged in, i want to clay play that clip. >> come on, mike. >> which war came first, world war ii, the civil war, or the vietnam war? >> world war ii. >> incorrect. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> anybody that went to school should have knew that right there, it's in the books. >> i'm n going to read books about things i don't want to know. >> moving on. charles: mike. stuff like, that we're all getting embarrassed but that is the like world will get a chance to see that. did the oile older guys rub it n

a little bit. >> a little bit, but since this come on, my mother is killing me, my friends are going to watch this, what are you a dummy? she said they will remember you for this. >> at least they are remember me. me. >> this was unforgetable experience for me to meet out in west coast, a kid in staten island who is a warriors, it was a blessing. charles: my son, i listen to music he listens to. and my wife can't listen to it we'll put it that way, we're not as far apart in age as you are, did you listen t the music? >> i did not hear too much of their music, they brought me into the world of beer pong.

charles: were you a natural. >> like i was bob "kooz"y. charles: you had trouble getting on internet. >> the worse. charles: okay, as show progressed it looked like you were getting pretty good. >> i was disqualified. chars: you were? >> yes. >> did you get redemption, like i might not have known about world war ibut there are things that you don't know about that seem like common sense? >> i think i taught them a lot, at first it was okay, you are in your 20s, what can you teach me, what have you been through? i out the them, i have been through cancer, and i overcome that, after that, say were like, wow, okay, maybe this younger generation has something they can teach us. so -- >> what country learn from it, you taught each other a lot. we feel this edge, we had protest, occupy wall street,

young people are afraid, they think this maybe college does not work any more. ing in works, is there a central message you think we're get. >> absolutely, challenges. youth is searching for the truth, and on for ever young. in 6 episodes, they will see the truth. and that will win, in the long run. charles: you feel the same? >> i honestly, i was shocked on how much i learned and how much -- how close i got with everyone, the people watching will -- it will hit every emotion. you know, not just going to be funny. you will feel for the people, you will learn, you know a lot. >> i have to tell you, i think one of bigger problem in america isby don't know each other.@ different races, and different religions and young and oil this might prove that -- young and old, this might prove if we know each other it might be a beautiful thing. >> i have 27 annual double a

racquetball championship coming to my birthplace from new york we get to know each other by doing battle. charles: i can not wait to see the show. oh, listen, i'm not going to rub it in this is fantastic, sounds like amazing, i wish i thought it. , you are fantastic, appreciate it. >> thank you very much. >> premieres wednesday. >> yes, wednesday, 10:00. charles: here is some good news, dollar stores are popping up every where. bad news, taxpayers are paying bad news, taxpayers are paying for it. shoot. now with the share everything plan from verizon, connect your camera, along with your smartphone and tablet. all your devices connected by one simple plan on the powerful network. record video. connect more. so you can do more.

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you are gonna need a wingman. and with my cash back, you are money. forget him. my airline miles will take your game worldwide. what i'm really looking for is -- i got two words for you -- re-wards. ♪ there's got to be better cards than this. [ male announcer ] there's a better way with creditcards.com. compare hundreds of cards from all the major banks to find the one that's right for you. it's simple. search, compare, and apply at creditcards.com. first round's on me. charles: a retail milestone. dollar general announcing plans to open 11,000 stores a according to one analyst 40 percent are on government

assistance. 40%. washington is popping up an entire retail sector is a scary sight of the times. >> you will get me kicked out of my home now. they do a lot of gre work so please do not with a paper my yard but when the economy goes down dollar general goes up. now was a great time to y stock cover barack obama is at t helm is how the stock will go but if we balance the economy and budget i guarantee we will come back down to see the normal leveling off. charles: the last week we saw a report that said the government assistance like food stamps willo up even if the economy improves. >> their advertising for

people to get food stamps and the requirement has been no word. i hate to use the terminologybut the game is rigged as they continue to grow and grow. when i saw 40% that is just with dollar general imagine wal-mart and other discount stores. no doubt the big transfer of wealth is doing the job for these places. >> obviously we take pride of america being a generous nation but are you alarmed at all by the statistics or trends? >> not dollar general. it is in taking over corporate america. charles: what about food stamps? >> do want people on welfare? absolutely not. we want the economy to grow in peole to get off welfare

the food stamp program is of mess that has to do with part of the farm bill and the subsidies that go with peanuts and sugar and corn wrapped up into the food stamp program. it needs reform to but it doesn't have to do with dollar general. charles: no, no, no but they are a beneficiary and the larger point* is the retail store 40% is redistributed from taxpayers so there is something alarming that raises of red flags. >> for every one job that the obamacare administration has created, 75 people went on food stamps. charles: one job? five people on food stamps. one out of 75? >> the growth is phenomenal the only times was decrease

under ronald reagan and bill clinton and it has almost now doubled in numbers. thank you obama. charles: under break-in food stamp recipients went down every single year and under the clinton second term it dropped dramatically under welfare reform but they seem to be going opposite trying to encourage more people to get on food stamps. >> it seems that they just want to give more tan they give it from the taxpayer and running deficits. it is not just food stamps but unemployment benets for as far as the eyes can see that incentivizes people to get work and there are so many other programs that are given out, so phones, it you name it and if you just keep giving when that is more

than a job this disincentive eyes is everything if the president would turn thing around unemployment would be below 6% the e. is in to the giveaway. >> we get t critics and there'll be a lot to say we are heartless but ultimately isn't it just as heartless to have somebody on food stamps their entire life they never get a shot at the american dream? >> i am absolutely in favor to get people off of welfare about one out of five americans lives in poverty. there is a reality there we have to do with. i think food stamps should not cover anything except nutritious food but people would say governmt gets too big to say ou cannot