listen live every weekday from 3:00 to 6:00 is the radio she. >> lou: hello, everybody, and welcome to lou dobbs tonight. north korea ratcheting up almost an daily string of threats against the united states and south korea. leader kim jong un hinged, as we call him here, vowing to expand its nuclear arsenal and giving final approval to launch military strikes, nuclear strikes agait the united states and the pentagon taking no chances, deploying a missile defense system to guam, strengthening the region against a possible attack. the defense secretary, chuck hagel, warning it takes only one mistake to have a disaster on our hands. >> it only takes being wrong

once, and i don't want to be the secretary of defense who was wrong once, so we will continue to take these threats seriously. i hope the north will ratchet this very dangerous rhetoric down. there is a pathway that's responsible for the north to get on a path to peace working with their neighbors. >> lou: in addition to the missile shield deployment to guam, the united states is dispatching bombers, stealth fighters and ships to the korean peninsula. they're taking the north korean threat up with k.t. emergency md and david grange, retired army general. the dow jones and the s&p climbed to record levels not seen since before the recession. wall street veterans join us to give analysis of where this marveght is headed.

also, we're joined on the dobbs forum on immigration, and we'll discuss the secretive gang of eight discussions and plan that senators are hoping to unveil next week. new signs that conservatives such as mubarak an marco rubio z aren't thrilled at this point. north korea will increase production of nuclear weapons material, and secretary of state john kerry vows the united states will defend itself following a meeting with south korea's foreign minister. >> we've heard an extraordinary amount of unacceptable rhetoric from the north korean government in the last days, so let me be perfectly clear here today. the united states will defend and protect ourselves and our treaty ally, the republic of korea. >> the secretary of state's

commentsome as the pentagon confirms its move of a second warship to the korean peninsula. joining now, former pentagon official, fox news national security analyst k.t. mcfarland and joining us as well, general david grange, retired u.s. army general and former commander the first infantry division, a combat veteran who saw action in vietnam and iraq among other places. we thank you for being with us. we'll start you, k.t.. the secretary of state met with the foreign minister of south korea, saying very clearly as he did that this is it. there will be no more games from at least the united states' side. is that a correct infence? >> i'm not sure what that means. the biggest problem, i think, with the whole korea thing is everybody'everybody's new atth h korea does this every year. they have a crisis, we get nervous, we go to the negotiating table, we give them aid and everything is fine until next year when they come back

and manufacture a new crisis. the reason i think it's different this time is because you have new leaders in south korea, south korea, japan, china, new secretary of state, new secretary of defense other than the americans, the other guys are all hawks, and so it's not clear they've not been through this stance before. do they know when to stop and when to start? i think that's the biggest concern, plus the fact that the north korean leader, he shouldn't even be allowed to play with matches and he's about to get his hands on nuclear weapons. >> lou: general, your thoughts. you've been stationed in korea. you know very well the region, and the issues here. what is your take on where we are right now and what is a building confrontaon with as, k.t. suggested, a very young new leader of north korea? >> well, lou, a very dangerous leader, and it's been for over 60 years the same set of crazy leaders in north korea. the one thing that hasn't changed is the gis that are on

the demilitaryized zone up in the dmz, and the families korean and u.s. and other allies that arare within rocket and artilley range right in seoul, korea. there's little time to react to any crazy action by north korea. they're very, very powerful with rocket artillery and special operating forces. they're dug in like rats throughout the mountain sides, so it's a tough foe. yes, it's a lot of rhetoric, but you've got to stay on top of your game just in case. >> those forces, the 35,000 or so of our troops in south korea along the dmz, i said hereast night it's time to get them out. we don't need to expose 35,000 of our troops to the prospect of injury or death as a trigger point to understand that the north koreans are serious. they're exposed mightily.

why in the world are we continuing to leave those troops in that position and why are we not instead of exposing our pilots and our troops to the enemy, why aren't we just simply saying you know, if you cross this line, icbms will be falling on your head? >> well, a couple of reasons. historically they were there as a trip wire, an intentional trip wire to say to the north koreans you mess with south koreaia, so, you've got to come through us. i agree with you. we should have reconsidered our position in the koreas a long time ago. why we have 30,000 still there as a trip wire, within a minute, a missile can go from north to south korea. >> i don't understand this pen chant, general. you were one of those trip wires at one time. >> lou: i don't like the idea of describing an american service member as a trip wire in any regard, but i certainly don't want to see them erase 35,000 of

our troops lining up against a million man army of the north koreans. what sense does that make? >> well, it's a difficult set, there's no doubt about it. i agree. you don't want to be called a trip wire. you have that feeling a little bit because you're right there, and when they start, it's going to be fast and furious. but having american gis there has been a deterrent, no doubt about it. they know because of that, there's going to be commitment or tre better be commitment of the united states of america to unleash hell on the enemy if something like that happens. i mean, when you're a gi, you sign up for that. that's part of being a soldier, but it is tough to be that close. you have to stay on top of your game. there have been adjustments made over the last 60 years on the disposition of troops, but it is a dangerous position to be in. but i'm not sure you can pull totally out. i'm not sure i agree with that. >> okay. that's why you're here. to offer me better counsel.

kt mcfarland, thank you very much. general david grange, thank you as always. good to talk to you. tepid economic growth. but the market is booming. we're going to talk wreflt ling, too. stockton, california, becomes the largest bankrupt city in america. it will not be the last. we're going to take a look in the chalk talk about the reality that now confronts financial america.

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my next guest says the economy is growing despite the government. as stocks continue their record run. joining us now with this outlook, the principal at for

thforthe resident investment gr. good to have you here. this market is unrelenting. it's just -- what is driving this market? >> it's interesting. the old adage don't fight the fed is completely at work here. it's not just the fed. it's the ecb, it's the boj, it's a global liquidity push. if you look at underlying market, you have multiple expansion. the growth side isn't doing great. it's dividend stocks. globally people are putting money to work. they're doing exactly what the fed wants them to do, they are taking more risks. >> we have a number of shorts out there, pushing hard, talking about 12% unemployment and the euro is down. they're talking about this rhythm, the fifth year of this tired old bull market. things have to drop. the only question is by how much. will b it be 20% or 10%? what's your thoughts. >> you had the election in the

u.s. last year so you had tail risk in the market. it doesn't exist this year. we had two minor ones, the italian elections and and the cs crisis. those are gone. not a lost big events out there. >> lou: what do you see he for the rest of the year? >> i literally see the markets don't go straight up forever. there will be some corrections, but we're going to take out these highs. usually when markets take out highs, they put a new leg in. i can see in the next six to 12 weeks another 10% rally in the s&p and the associated markets. the economy is growing. >> lou: not as fast as we'd like. >> we've got a drag for the government. that's known. it's priced in the market. you've got auto sales doing ne. you've got the construction industry and the housing industry really making a comeback which is big. the tech business continues to do fine, and the energy, do not

underestimate in energy revolution providing us cheaper energy and jobs. put it all together, and it's a decent 2 and a half or 3% growth rate. >> lou: a year ago most people would have signed up for that in a second. i want to turn to something you're fighting for and most most americans probably aren't aware of it, but the fact is you're a former wrestler. you may insist you're still awrestler. i'll leave that alone. a former captain of the princeton wrestling team but one of the great fill lan throw phi, trying to get a lot of support for kids across the country, and then the international olympic committee says they're going to take wrestling out of the olympics. what's going on? >> you know, every once in a while there's a decision made that you scratch your head and say who in god's name made that decision? this is exactly one of those. you know, the ioc is a big organization and they have a small executive board.

they ran a process >> threw out the oldest sport in the olympics as of 2020. >> they did it because they were angry at the international wrestling federation and the guy that ran it. >> lou: for what? >> because the guy that ran the international wrestling federation, he didn't take their process seriously enough. he was arrogant. he didn't give them the respect they deserve. remember, every other sport, they show up with hat in hand, do whatever they can, hire consultants to pitch their sport. quite frankly, wrestling fell down on that side. >> lou: are you going to fix it, you and vladimir putin? may 18th there will be a meeting in russia. putin said he wants a meeting. >> on may 15th right here in grand central station we're having the iranian national team, the russian national team, and the american national team in vanderbilt hall to have a big wrestling match to raise money for our youth program in new york city and also to kind of

say hey, if we can get together, iran, russia, and the u.s., this is a pretty cool sport. >> lou: very cool sport, and we're glad you're on the right side. get it back, will ya? >> thank you, lou. >> lou: thanks for being here. stockton, california becomes the biggest city ever to go bankrupt, and it won't be the last. we'll have the frightening figures in tonight's chalk talk. senate judiciary chairman pat leahy offering the public out of the kindness of his heart, his generosity just runs over. offering to consider holding maybe one hearing on the immigration reform process. isn't that nice of him?

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[ chuckles ] -whew, so many choices. -take your time. -the service center. -okay. giving you choices -- now, that's progressive. call or clictoday. >> lou: a federal judge today ruled that the city of stockton, california is eligible for federal bankruptcy protection. that makes it the most, well, the larest city by population in the country to go bankrupt.

stockton wants to default on $165 million loan that it borrowed back in 2007, to pay an installment on it of $900 million that it owes to the california public retirement system known as calpers. california lawmakers it official that debts to the state pension fund must be honored no matter what. the heck with your bankruptcy, the heck withhatever, but today's ruling brings federal law in over the top of california law and stockton will not have to pay its debts in full because it is now bankrupt calpers or no calpers which is actually a trustee in the proceeding. how did the city of stockton get into such a big mess, so much trouble? for one, stockton has the most generous health care benefits in the state of california, and folks, that is saying something.

the city of stockton, california with just about a 1% unemployment rate, it's lost 70% of its tax base over the last ten years. that municipality offered full health care coverage for life for all of its employees no matter how long they worked there, all retirees, plus a dependent, just one dependent. can you believe that they couldn't be more generous? and nearly a quarter of the workers on stockton's payroll last year, a quarter earned more than $100,000. that's down from 30% in 2010. stockton, however, is not alone in its troubles, and many expect detroit, michigan to surpass stockton as the biggest city to file for bankruptcy. that's coming up soon in detroit. the city there owes roughly, well, this sort of makes them -- you know, this is just minor potatoes. detroit's the big leagues, all

right. we're talking $14 billion in detroit in retiree pension, health benefits and long-term bond debt. go a little east to baltimore. our report from an outside consulting firm was brought in to help baltimore face bankruptcy if it doesn't take drastic steps to close a budget shortfall. that budget shortfall will be $2 billion over the next decade. a little minor item. oh. and the pension system for most city workers in baltimore? $700 million. $700 million in unfunded liabilities. 700 million. it's seven cities, towns, counties filing for bankruptcy since 2010. it's a mess. get ready because it's going to be a bigger mess because u.s. states and cities have a stunning 3.9 trillion dollars in

unfunded liabilities. 3.9 trillion. so now that the federal court has held that stockton can go bankrupt, look what's waiting. whether it's baltimore, whether it's detroit, the question now is how many more cities will stofollow stockton path to bankruptcy and when will american people say enough is enough of this vicious cycle? go over to public employee unions who then support the democratic party with their contributions, and then that works to influence who gets elected to the city council, the mayor, and it determines how these cities in turn will spend that money. it is not just a vicious cycle.

it is, without question, a cycle of shame, and it is going on in communities all across this country. and i think it begins to stop with today's ruling in stockton, california. border security. absolutely essential to immigration reform, so why do the democrats keep gaming the issue? we take it up with our immigration panel tonight. [ jackie ] its just sorustrating... ♪ the middle of this special moment and i need to run off to the bathroom. ♪ i'm fed up with always having to put my bladder's needs ahead of my daughter. ♪ so today, i'm finally talking to my doctor about overactive bladder symptoms. [ female announcer ] know that gotta go feeling? ask your doctor about prescription toviaz.

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>> lou: a generous offer from the senate of the judiciary committee, patrick leahy. he'll consider holing one, one single hearing on immigration reform if the spirit so moves him. joining us to talk about where we're headed with this, the executive director of the national immigration forum, an

attorney for vincent and elkins, and the co-author of numerous state anti-illegal immigration laws, the kansas secretary of state. thanks for being here. we'll begin with you. i've got to put it just like this. i mean, leahy talking about maybe he'll consider one hearing. a third of the senators in the united states senate weren't there the last time comprehensive immigration was attempted. >> already the judiciary committee has had handful of here's on immigrationestorm. there have been numerous oversight hearings. >> lou: you're satisfied with it? >> this is not an issue that's new to the u.s. senate. >> lou: a third of the senators -- >> i mean, i think that the congress is ready to debate a law enforcement let's get this going. >> lou: just like that. just sort of like health care? >> these are pretty smart guys. >> lou: all right. how smart are these guys, first? >> no. > >> lou: what do you think of one

hearing? let's get these? >> how smart are these guys? the voters elected them. i'm not going to insult the voters. >> lou: we'll leave that to the elected officials. >> no, no, no, no. look. the senate will work its way through the process. they've already had hearings this year in the judiciary committee on immigration. i don't doubt there will be even more. the way i read the letter was this bill would have a hearing, not that the issue would be forced to just one hearing. >> lou: chris? >> we haven't seen the bill. we'll see how it looks. >> i would say this, lou. any time you have legislation cooked up behind closed doors by a small group, a gang of eight, a gang of six, gang of whatever, usually it's because they think there are parts of it that the american public won't like, so they want the protection of closed doors. they throw it to the senate, sounds like obama care in some respects. throw it out there, give us one hearing and try to ram it through. i would say be aware. bevery afraid when it's done this way. if they believed these

provisions would be popular with the american public, they would want to have lots of hearings and be open about the deliberations. i think we'll see basically something worse than the 2007 amnesty proposal, worse in the sense it will be even less serious about the law enforcement side and they don't want the american public to start talking about it. they want to get it out, get it through before the discussion can get going. >> lou: very quickly, townhall.com is reporting yesterday border patrol agents saying that border crossings have doubled across all sectors of the southern border, in some places tripled. this is not a happy piece of timing, is it? >> well, the fact is that article cited one unnamed source within a customs border protection. one unnamed source is not a real data point. when you look at the data from dhs, you see that the border apprehensions are lower, lowest that we've seen since the 1970s. i would rather look at actual data instead of one unnamed source who is probably awaiting a furlough. >> lou: i'm sure that's the

case. so a data point that's missing, and it must concern you deeply, is border patrol does not keep track of illegal immigrants who get away. do you need that data point as well? >> the thing is that when you look at the people being apprehended, you look at the people who are being seen and tracked, those numbers are actually lower than they've ever been. the border is more secure than it's ever been. it's time to move forward with the solution. >> lou: well, it's kind of exciting. the afl-cio and the chamber of commerciacommerce reached agreea guest worker program. we just don't know what it is. since when do they have so much power. >> we're talking about 250 visas out of a work force. let's get this on paper. let's see what the bill looks like. i actually agree with chris that this negotiation and debate needs to take place in the open. >> lou: in the open. well, chris, you've got buy-in already. how many hearings do you think

we need and what is the likelihood? why don't we have national discussion about this? we learned in 2007 trying to ram this down the american people's throat, i mean, this could destroy the republican party for certain. > what do you think? >> well, a couple of things. one is that you're already starting to see senator rubio take some steps back and say wait a minute, i'm not necessarily going to be in favor of what people say i'm in favor of in the gang of eight. >> lou: chris, i heard him saying let's be thoughtful and be in the open and be clear.

>> the republicans are running a major risk. there's an impulse to reach out to the hispanic community just as immigrants do, but if they buy into this, they're playing with fire here. they've got to be intelligent. i don't see the sign of it, frankly. >> i think quite frankly, we're missing the boat. hispanics are american. we're part of the country. we're part of the discussion.

>> lou: how long have i been talking that you would waste your breath saying such a foolish thing. are we going to see a resolution? >> if you hold a bible, you wear a bge, you own a business, you need common sense solution to the immigration system. i am more optimistic than ever that we'll see a law passed. >> lou: i know chris is. thank you very much. we appreciate it. dozens of atlanta teachers and principals and supervisors indicted for falsifying test scores. quite an example for those students in atlanta. dobbs law takes it up ... next. ♪ [ male announcer ] how could a luminous protein in jellyfish, impact life expectancy in the u.s., real estate in hong kong, and the optics industry in germany? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds

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>> lou: at least 11 of 35 atlanta educators have been booked for their roles in an alleged conspiracy to falsify students' standardized test scores. ey face racketeering and related charges. those surrendering today include

three testing coordinators, a school improvement specialist, and that's an ironic title, isn't it, an assistant principal, a so-called success for all facilitator, and five teachers. an attorney for beverly hall who is the former superintendent of schools is expected to turn herself in today before midnight. that is the deadline that has been set by follo fulton county district attorney, the attorney for all of the suspects who surrender themselves to authorities. joining us now, fox news legal analyst and criminal defense attorney. this is an outrageous case. i mean, this has gotta be devastating for the state, for the community of atlanta. my gosh, how could something like this have occurred? >> i don't think it's just occurring in atlanta, but the one thing that i disagree with, listen. if these educators -- >> lou: we barely got started and we are disgreig. >> if these educators are dead

to rights, the one thing i disagree on is we don't need to set a million dollars bail on anybody's head. it's not to punish, it's to make sure they show up for charges. you can put electronics braces on their anxious. they'll show up. > >> lou: i would have them doing perp walks up and down peachtree in atlantath is such an abuse of public trust. >> they've been pocketing money from the scam for a long time, making all of this money, these raises they've been getting. up to half a million dollars a year. they've got the money to pay. it's only 10% -- not only, but it's 10% of the amount of the bail. >> lou: are they going to plead this deal or will this be a full on trial? what do you think. >> there's no way he they can go to trial. absolutely no way. >> here's what i would do. i would have my come to jesus moment with all of them. i would start with the lowers.

come to me as a prosecutor. if you snitch on everybody else, i'll cut you a deal. >> for those who don't know, they had a wire in the rooms with the conspirators, all of these fks, nearly awful these folks, at least, i mean, they've got them dead to rights, scenario tfair tosay? >> a package deal will avoid the trial. >> none of them will teach again. their careers are obviously over. >> lou: what about jail time? >> oh, yeah. at least the people at the higher end of this will be going to prison. that's where without a doubt. will they go for 30 years? no. a couple, yeah. >> white collar crime, racketeering, yeah. >> lou: racketeering and more than white collar crime in texas. two prosecutors and one of the district attorney's wife murdered in texas. this is, you know, they've been talking about it was the aryan brotherhood. now we're hearing that it is the drug cartels. now, was this -- what is happening here?

there's a shift. there's a lot of people in texas, understandably scared right now. >> righ >> lou: the question is, are the authorities also intimidated because corruption is not just on the southern side of that border. there's too much money for it. you know, you've had district attorneys gunned down. of course, they're intimidated and frightened. absolutely. are they going to still keep doing their job? of course. it's a horrible fact of life that prosecutors do get killed. they get threatened more often than we'd like to think about that exists, lou, but it does. >> defense attorneys, too. defense attorneys, too. this is the type of crime w may never solve. it's a mystery that may never be solved. that's the scary part. >> lou: you know what else is scary? they had a sheriff's deputy protecting the district attorney and his wife and they pulled him off, apparently, just a matter of days before. >> right. >> lou: this occurred. a lot of bad judgment being made there, but we don't know what's going on, and the fbi has moved in. what i don't hear?

i don't hear the justice department making this a big deal. i don't understand why the justice department sending attorneys in there. >> i don't understand that either. i'll give you a peonal experience. when i was a prosecutor, one of my colleagues was assassinated, gunned down in his home. the department of justice was on that case. that case is still unsolved, that case, all these years later. they sent the department out. they immediately got an fbi squad dedicated just to this case. that's all these people do. >> doj makes a big deal, then every d.a. in the entire united states is going to want some sort of security detail. i wouldn't bleam them. we don't have the resources for that. >> we don't have the resources. >> lou: this is not a coincidence. >> no, it's not. >> lou: two prosecutors have been assassinated in texas. that's where to put them. that's where the first problem is. whatever it takes. >> there's intel apparently there -- there could be more coming down the road. >> lou: your judgment. is this aryan brotherhood, is it

the drug cartels, or is it something else? you first. >> i don't think we're ever going to know unless we have other prosecutors and other police agencies that are willing to take a chance and start arresting people, kind of shooting first and asking questions later which we don't like to do in this country, but this is a really heinous crime. >> i don't agree we won't find out. if we have this many leads so close on, we probably will. will the fbi and investigators keep it very close to the vest? absolutely. we're not going to hear a lot about what they're doing. >> lou: i hope we do hear they've brought the responsible guilty people to justice. thank you very much. >> lou: coming up, the latest threat to the second amendment. originating at the united nations. texas attorney general greg abbott said the arms trade treaty must be stopped. he joins us here next. reports showing the mental health of the sandy hook and tucson shooters in question

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>> lou: the united nations yesterday approved a treaty to regulate the international arms trade. my next guest threatens to sue the administration if that treaty is ratified. he warned president obama in a letter, quote, agreeing to the treaty does more than trample second amendment rights. it also threatens to erode all liberties guaranteed to americans in the constitution substitutioestablishing the pret the united nations has some level of authority to govern our

lives. joining us tonight, the attorney general from the state of texas, greg abbott. great to have you with us. >> great to be back. >> lou: it's striking that the united nations general assembly passes this. it's going to move to the u.s. senate for ratification. we've seen already a preliminary vote that says they will turn it down. you are obviously concerned. why? >> right, because, lou, all these stories that you've been talking about in the beginning of your show tonight actually fit together as pieces of a puzzle. remember, that in september right before the election, the president came out and said that he would work with congress to pass his agenda, but if they failed to work with him, he would work around them. before the election, the president did not come out and strongly support the un treaty. the day afteris election, the president came out and began pushing this treaty. remember, last week joe biden said that the arms regulation being proposed by senator feinstein is just the beginning, so put all these pieces together

and here's what you see. that is that the president and his administration are trying to air chief through the united nations what the president may not be able to achieve through regulation and through congress. my fear and concern is the president's going to be able to accept defeat of arms regulation in the u.s. senate but arm twist the senators to ratify this treaty itreaty. if they do, i'm loaded for a double barrel lawsuit aimed right at this treaty. >> lou: and the ratification of such a treaty would simply abrogate second amendment rights for all u.s. citizens and it would do so, as you say, through the united nations, an institution that many people think should be dissolved rather than sway over the lives of american citizens. >> lou, it's bad enough if our own federal government is trying to strip away our second amendment rights. it gets even worse if we have the united nations in giving them authority to undermi our second amendment rights. lou, that's why our potential lawsuit is so incredibly

important, and that's because we believe that treaties do not trump the constitution. i will wage this lawsuit if the eaty passes which it has now passed if the president signs it into effect and if the u.s. senate ratifies it. we have to file a lawsuit to make sure it does not go into effect. otherwise, we will lose more than our second amendment rights. we will also lose the authority this country has had for its own independence and be giving that to the united nations. >> lou: 388 sheriffs across the country have vowed to uphold the constitution and defend second rightamendment rights against g control and the federal government. what is your posture should something be undertaken by this brez by executivpresident by exr that would contravene, in your judge, the second amendment?

>> an executive order will not be acceptable in contravention of the second amendment. if the order is issued in violation of the second amendment, in my view, i will bring legal action to shut it down, point one. point two, behind me is the capital of the state of texas. as i sit here tonight, legislators in the capitol are considering legislation that will barney executive order by the president from having any effect in the state of texas if it violates the second amendment, so texas is prepared to be fighting back against the obama administration. >> lou: greg abbott, attorney general of texas. american psycho killers holmes, loughner, lanza. psychologists with their analysis. in today's markets, a lot can happen in a second. with fidelity's guaranteed one-second trade execution, we route your order to up to 75 market centers to look for the best possible price -- maybe even better than you expected.

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shooting. authorities seized an arsenal of

guns, sores, knives from the home of newtown shooter and his mother nancy as well as more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition, books on autism and as burgers and a holiday card containing a check to buy a firearm. joining us now to give us some guidce as we look at what is happening in the realm of mental health and efforts to control violence, a psychotherapist dr. rob ludwig and psychologist dr. jeffrey guard there. thank you both for being here. let's start with the very idea after all of this time since the moment of the newto massacre, the president is seems to be tearing up. there is sll not a discussion about mental health and its relationship to the shooters, all of which we know to have been mentally disturbed. i'm talking about from colorad to newtown connecticut. why in the world are we not.

>> some people are trying to brinit up as a discussion. there has to be changes legally in terms of how we handl these people who are violence. how do we make sure that they get the care that they need? right now in some cases it's harry hard if you even hospitalize somebody to actually keep them in the hospital due to insurance policy. so there are a lot of things that need to change before we can treat the violence mentally ill population appropriately. >> the other part of that is we don't want to stereotype because there are so many people who do have mental illnesses, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, autism. >> we stay away from it. >> and we don't want to make generalizations that can legitimately hurt people. lou: to answer your question mental illnesses signifies -- stigmatize. lou: you're both talking about effectively political

correctness, hypersensitivity to sensitive people who, perhaps, should reive less, well, deference on a politically correct basis and a helluva lot more treatment from professionals like yourself. >> absolutely. >> and there not obviously getting it. lou: at least in the six tragic instances, and we have a discussion about rolling back the second amendment rights of 300 million americans. >> for also looking at doing background checks and taking a look at people's mental health issues. the thing is to know we are just as scapegoating, and that is the important thing. we want to take the focus of the fact. lou: every gun owner in america is being scapegoating, for crying out loud. >> people who are violent to do

mother. but it was probably the only way she could connection with this kid. she had a kid that could not connection with the world, it is possible, at at the time she was teaching him he was not as disturbed, and progress ofly got worse, and -- progres progressit worse and he was not able to hospitale him. >> he found out, and that is what we know, it may have touched off that rage, he had a cache of guns, and weapons and knives. he was playing those games, he is listings of other mass shootings, what we think is that he really wanted to one-up everyone and was going to take

that rain out of being -- rage out of bei committed against his mom and against innocent victims. lou: how in the world can we convince our elected officials to deal with the real cause of the tragedies, we have a president running around misrepresenting what is going on. you have people exploiting tragedy, in point of fact we are not dealing with the real issue, which is mental health, why are the professionals not saying -- they are. >> they are screaming out, they are writing articles, they are saying please lp us, we need to destigmatize mental health. lou: how about d destigmatizing our politicians, and have them tell the truth, in each case, it is about a mentally disturbed person. >> let's help people, let's protect people, n