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border security. all these pieces out there and holding hearings on the legislative language to hear the strength and weaknesses.

we'll hear from our constituents and members on the judiciary committee and on the full house. we'll have input in this process and we'll move it up that way and do something that we think can address the fact that on it while we're a nation of immigrants, we're also a nation of laws and we have to have something that works to recognize both. >> let me just say,fy m fif i m mr. chairman, you're talking so much good sense and judgment in the way to proceed here. i got to -- i've got to compliment you on it, congratulate you on it. do you have the support of your caucus and leadership on this? >> we are building support by the day. we certainly have support from our leadership in terms of recognizing that this is something that we are going to be proactive on and introduce the legislation on. we have to see what the group of eight in the house produce. we are not discouraging them.

in fact, we're encouraging them to see what they can produce in a bipartisan fashion. we'll certainly take that and look at what can be utilized there along with what we're producing and try to produce a bipartisan bill that also has the overwhelming majority of the majority party in the house. and then if we're successful in passing something through the house, sit down and negotiate the differences with the senate. that's how it's supposed to work. that's how i think the only way it will work and have the acceptance of the american people. it wasn't done that way in 2007 and the whole thing collapsed from the top down. we have to make sure it doesn't happen this time. >> it's also because both political parties were trying to gain the american people as hard as they could rather than be for forthright and open and add public opinion from the citizens who have some right and privilege to understand the public policy that's being

created by you folks. i think that's terrific. and i hope that the leadership, if you will, stands up for precisely that process. let me ask you one other question. a federal judge, as you know, has supported the immigration and customs challenge to president obama's deferred deportation policy and is the judge in the case even intimating that i.c.e. may be successful. what is your reaction to that preliminary indication and that case before federal court? >> it's very encouraging because the union in had this case which brought the suit on behalf of the 5,000 i.c.e. employees who are charged with enforcing immigration laws in this country says the immigration is keeping us from doing our jobs. if we're going to do immigration reform, the first thing we're going to have to do is convince the american people that this will not be a repeat of 1986,

where we gave legal status, in fact, a quick easy pathway to citizenship for 3 million people and then never honored the commitments on enforcement, including employer sanctions. all of that will be a good measure of whether or not the administration and the senate are willing to recognize something that i think, has to be right up front in doing this. and that is, there has to be both border enforcement and interior enforcement legislation. and that has to be put into effect as we do this, not we're going to give legal status to 11 million people and then we'll take care of figuring out how this worked. that was tried once and a lot of people were fooled by it. we shouldn't be fooled again. >> congressman, we appreciate you being with us. congressman bob goodlatte. the republican party has conducted what its leaders call an autopsy. what's next, a funeral?

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joining us now, former reagan white house political director and fox news political analyst, ed rollins, new york post columnist and fox news contributor, michael goodwin. michael, let me start with you. john boehner says no to 117 members on a select committee on benghazi. he says, accelerate immigration legislation as his members and those in the -- many of those in the senate are saying, let's stop and think about this. what's happened to the speaker? >> probably nothing. that's who he is. just looks to me like this is a man who doesn't want trouble.

he's not looking to pick fights. he just wants to move forward. not -- particularly on immigration, anything that he thinks is controversial and would be seen a let's call the president obstructionists, anti-latino, anti -- >> they're going to do that name. >> of course. but boehner is not going to give them the rope to do it with. that's what it sounds like to me. >> ed, your thoughts? >> i think that's a fair assessment. i think the speaker doesn't want any battle within his own group. you have to remember his history. >> what about the 117 members. >> they can change speaker any time they want to. he has to learn to count those votes. i think the immigration is going to slow down. i think the gang of eight basically got sort of schnoookerred by schumer, knows more about anybody. he knows the issues, knows it well. you have two freshman members, one is famous, rubio, but i

think a real battle is coming. i think conservatives -- >> rubio -- >> as theshy should, learn this bill and no more rushing through. all these bills rushed through and we have to know the details. >> just a few weeks ago rubio was saying, slow down, we have to be careful, we have to focus on first securing the border and now he's saying, full steam ahead. >> lou, your point about hearings, unraveling and untangling these big pieces of legislation is what our government doesn't do anymore. it's almost as though the public doesn't trust the government, but the government doesn't trust the public. so we have the government taking on these big issues. everybody wants immigration, but then when they get to it, they won't really unpack all the details because they're afraid of getting sidetracked. >> do you think they care one way or the other what the facts are? in all seriousness, on illegal immigration, they have no idea the number of illegal

immigrants. they'll never say they're going to provide 11 million visas because they know they want 50 million. >> this is a hot-button issue for republicans across this country. even though everybody is talking about how important it is to get latino voters and what have you, if they cave in on this issue they'll lose a lot of their own constitue constituency. this president isn't going to spend money on border security if he's making faa slow down, if you think there's going to be money spent on border security, you're nuts. >> do they care about what's in these things, look at gun control. it was way off the mark in terms of the mental health issues and all that, but they had a package, rushed it through and expected it to pass. >> i want to know what you think, 5:00 wednesday, news conference by the fbi is canceled. up steps the president 30 minute later his anger with the senate.

>> i think we should put the justice department under oath. that's the only way we'll find out. >> that's the last place eric holder is going. >> we've all been around the game. when the president says i want to go on at 5:00 and do my thing, they clear the path. there's a coordination that goes on on a daily basis in those various agencies and there's no question that, you know, who's going to stand up and say, no, mr. president, you can't talk about guns. we want to talk about an investigation going on. >> we talked about immigration reform. it appears to be in a lot of trouble. one, because the american people are watching this ugly display of people about a terrorist attack on the great city and people of boston. could be used as a political prop, premise, as this administration is fond of doing. both -- those who oppose and those who support that legislation, using it as a

fulker, unseemly, but the result is going to be delayed. >> facts are facts. this is a new situation now. something has happened that hasn't happened since 9/11. much of the immigration debate is not about the borders, per se, but national security. we have a national security breakdown. look, we can't say there will never be another terrorist attack but this was a guy who was on the fbi radar. we knew he was here. and he still was able to pull it off. >> going to ed's point, this political correctness becomes not only language control, it becomes mind control and a mindset in a bureaucracy is a frightening thing, particularly if it happens to be those enforcing the law at any level. but what i -- i have a very strong -- well, i have a lot of trouble with the fact that very few people in the national media are pointing out this administration is suddenly using two terms they have been loathed

to do, one of which is radical islamist terror, which they're still holding back from, and the other is terror itself. >> well, they're afraid to use it, as michael said before, it's admitting defeat. we're spending billions of dollars on intelligence, security and all the rest of it. and many wonderful -- many women and men doing the job but it's not failsafe. the russians wanted to investigate this guy a year ago, six months ago. we should have put him on a list. why did we ever let him leave the country? >> that goes exactly to your point, and that is, there is this -- there are miles of distance between the professionals who make up our security law enforcement, national security and defense establishment, and a political codry that is the administration itself. michael, good to have you here. ed, thank you. immigration reform, a

priority for democrats and republicans alike. is it about the national interest or is it about politics? we take it up in tonight's chalk talk.

president obama wants immigration legislation on his desk and he means right away. the gang of eight wants an immediate vote. senate judiciary vote chairman patrick leahy is holding three hearings on the bill. one last friday, one today, one tomorrow, they're done. which had to be -- the one tomorrow, homeland security secretary napolitano withdrew the hearing because of developments in boston. why do you think they're in such a rush, because a rush it is? this is even a faster pace than obama care. we all know how that turned out. almost half of our senators weren't in office the last time immigration reform was being debated, back in 2006 and '07. you would think people would

want more hearings to get a few answers to some questions, to hear the american people on this burning issue. everyone keeps talking about a path to citizenship for an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants. i don't know anyone who believes that number. some say more, some say fewer. but don't you think those congressional hearings should reflect a definitive answer to that? well, that's just one question. we don't know. how many have a college degree? if you thought, we don't know, you're right. how many have jobs? we don't know. how many have skill? what kind of skills?

we still don't know. how many don't have jobs? how many -- well, how many make a living wage? how much do they make? we don't know. how many pay taxes? we don't know. how many will pay taxes if they get jobs? how much will they pay in taxes? we don't know. what is the real cost of illegal immigration to the united states, the real cost? an honest square accounting of it? what's the real cost of medical and social services for illegal immigrants? what is that answer definitively? what are those illegal immigrants paying in taxes and providing in the way of services to others in this country? because they are. some are immensely productive. what is the cost to american citizens and the industries and the jobs that illegal immigrants hold, or is there no cost?

is it really true that they only work in industries where americans don't want to work? and that's fine. just give us the answer. do we as a nation make money? do we benefit, do we prosper because of illegal immigration? you hear everybody say we're a nation of immigrants. why don't they say we're a nation of illegal immigrants? why don't they do that? the questions go on and on and on. is a path to citizenship appropriate? is it good or bad for our economy? is it in the national interest? is it good for american society? but the real question becomes, after ten years of debating this issue, why in the world don't we have these answers? that's the big question. and if you've been watching politics in washington as long as i have, you know when they don't answer questions in washington, it's because they don't think the american people are going to like the answers.

and so they want to run it by you. i could write question marks all over this board to represent the questions that haven't been asked and more to those who are not answered. there can only be one reason, as i said, those running our government don't like the questions and they think we won't like the answers. that's why we actually need real hearings, where citizens actually get to express themselves. a careful, thoughtful process. you know, the senate poses as a great deliberative body and then they treat us as subjects rather than citizens. and they need a very strong reminder that we are, indeed, citizens. we have every right to demand those answers and our elected officials have every responsibility to provide answers to all of these questions. a new analysis as the obama budget is fair on taxes.

it raises them on everyone. details ahead. the gang of eight has a plan to reform our immigration laws. congressman lamar smith says the plan is worth than we expected.

remember when president obama promised he wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class? they find the 2014 budget does just that. in fact, people earning between $100,000 and $200,000 a year would pay $150 more in taxes each year. some earning less than $100,000 a year would pay just under $100 in additional taxes. congress, not expected to take up the president's budget any time soon, however. a new report find the irs overpaid billions in tax credits designed to help low income families. and help, they did. the irs overpayments amount between $11.6 billion and $13.6

billion. that range, i guess, is a government calculation. to put that into some context, the entire budget for the fbi was just over $8 billion last year. well, turning to the debate over immigration reform, our next guest calls the gang of eight plan mass amnesty.sses the fact more than ever we need to take it slow and to get if right. joining us is congressman smith of texas, member of the house judiciary committee, chairman on homeland security. great to see you again. welcome to the broadcast. >> good to be with you, lou. let's start with what has been just a reflexsiv response on the left and right on the boston bombings. one group saying the bombing should accelerate the passage of immigration reform.

and the other group saying immediately that it should stop it. where do you come down on the issue? >> we really need to get all the facts before with we determine how the bombings are going to impact immigration policy. one thing i hope we can all agree upon, that is that we need to put the safety of the american people first. and that means, at least to me, we don't immediately legalize most of the 10 million people in the country illegally before we have secured borders. it seems to me that if we rush this bill through, we're going to jeopardize american lives. so i think the message is, let's go slow. let's wait and see what we need to change as a result of these bombings in boston. but let's not rush to get this bill through any time soon. >> you've called the gang of eight plan mass amnesty. why? >> that's correct. i call it mass amnesty because under the senate immigration bill, in six months after the

bill is enacted, almost everybody in the country illegally is going to be legalized. they're going to get amnesty. and they're going to get amnesty and legalize millions of people before the borders are secured. on page 14 of the bill it says that the borders not secure after five years, a commission will be appointed to make recommendations. that doesn't sound to me like any kind of a deadline for border security. >> that is the guarantee in the legislation. talk about border security, i mean, secretary napolitano today testifying border security would be satisfied in coming years. she talked about safety triggers. before the expression, the term of art was operational or operative security, i believe, is the expression. >> yes. >> what in the world? how about just securing the borders? >> yeah. i don't know where the

secretary's getting her information. the government accounting office recently said only 6% of the border is under full control. only 40% under operational control. that's less than half. that's a failing grade. and as far as the triggers, again, that's just a hope and a wish. if it's not done within five years, they'll appoint another commission. so, under the senate bill it's amnesty or legalization first and border security later, if ever. >> well, i need you to, if you will, share with us the temperature you've taken of your colleagues there in the house. is it likely, because you've got your own gang of eight. i don't want to sleight the house. you have your own gang of eight working on this issue. but the first words are, they love what the gang of eight and the senate has done. are we just going to watch this thing get rubber stamped and rushed through? >> not at all. in fact, i do not think the senate immigration bill, as it now stands, is going to pass the

senate. as far as what's going on with the gang in the house, they haven't made their plan public. i like what we're going to do on the judiciary committee, which is a piecemeal approach. we're going to pass a guest worker plan. we're going to pass a bill to admit more immigrants who had the skills we need in america and the skills they need to get jobs and take care of their families. we're going to pass an e-verify bill to make sure employers hire workers who are in the country legally. and make sure that american workers are protected. so, i think we're going to do it right on the house judiciary committee and i think that's th1 direction you'll see congress go. >> congressman, always good to talk with you. appreciate you being here. >> thank you. make your voice heard. join the discussion, go to loudobbs.com, go to our facebook page, tweet me @loudobbsnews. the advertising industry goes viral. how the internet changes the way people advertise and you'll meet

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♪ ♪ ♪ >> stop it! >> call the police! call the police! >> stop it! >> that video, well, it's gathered some 6 million youtube views since it was posted a month ago. part of a viral marketing campaign inspired, created by our next guest, joining us co-founders of the viral marketing firm, james and michael. good to have you both here.

i mean, that's -- we're watching people react on the web to what would you do if you were watching a murder in progress? i love the fact that you decided at some point that you would have people who didn't react at all. i love the people who just sort of, well, murder in progress. i've got to get the mail. i mean, that's an extraordinary response but it's a response that you guys are used to, right, james? >> we create scenarios that are really engaging. not only engaging for the people in the moment, but more so for the viewers and across the board, this is what we do to attract audiences and introduce them to our clients. >> and, michael, what inspired that? i know the movie was a purpose of it, but what inspired you? >> it's a dark and gritty thriller. we wanted to do something along that goes with the theme of the movie. there's a movie.

there's a key theme where a strangulation happens so we decided to do a real life social experiment and that typical water cooler conversation, what would you do? it's a fascinating, engaging thing. >> i would want to be behind the woman with the umbrella. >> you want her to be a friend. >> absolutely. she was taking charge. how long does it take you to shoot that video? >> pretty quick. i mean, a few days. >> it's that quick, really? >> yeah, we work fast. >> it's for the web and for what you're trying to do. >> it's very different than a commercial. oftentimes the camera we use is less expensive than the meal that we serve. >> let me -- now, i have to confess, i was unaware of popinator which may be the most famous of alled videos. here is popinator and see what they created to drive a product.

you'll never know what the product is, i'm sure. >> pop. >> it's pretty cool. ♪ >> one thing that never changes about popcorn is how people get it in their mouths. >> the popinator is a fully automated, voice activated. you say pop and it figures out where it comes from. it uses a microphone system. >> we started passing it around the office. we have it for lunches and meetings. people were skeptical at first. i was one of those people. now everyone really loves it. >> the product you're driving here is -- >> popcorn, indiana. >> popcorn, indiana. and i'm one of those people, i suppose millions, who would like to have a popinator with my

popcorn, indiana. what was the result for your client? what was -- give us the metric of success. >> the web traffic just exploded. i mean, it went up by literally thousands of percent. their facebook page gained new fans. i mean, they were the most talked about brand. that was the problem, they were not on top of any other major brand. they just wanted awareness. we gave them exactly that and more. >> well, in keeping with the weekend's festivities and the masters, we thought bubba watson, who won last year's masters, might be the appropriate one to go to. there he is now. what is that? >> a golf cart hovercraft. the first hovercraft that's a hybrid golf cart. >> the decals i saw on the back.

>> it rhymes with oakley. >> oakley. and the hovercraft, i think, is a great idea as well. by the way, i have oakley glasses. i'm partial to oakley glasses. but havei have to say, that loo like something every golfer should have. what's the reaction? >> life imitates art for what we do. now neiman marcus wants to put it in the christmas catalog. >> that belongs in the neiman catalog. >> absolutely. >> how is the client responding to this? tell us what the reaction is. how you -- this is a relationship, obviously, between you and guys, your company and your clients. how does this continue? >> we got a call from oakley after this video launched. we launched it a few days before the masters and they said, we have never seen anything like it. this is the most powerful marketing initiative. it increased their awareness,

even during the masters they became one of the most talked about brands. it announced their relationship with bubba and the sponsorship. it was just wonderful. >> i've got to know, who came up with the idea of the bw1, the hovercraft on the golf course? i love that idea. >> we collaborate with everything we do. the proof of the effectiveness is that oakley's web traffic and sales went up 40% in the first day of this video. >> and i've got to ask you, the think modo, what is the origin of that, your trade style? >> like everything else, we created it. it's a word that just had a cool sound and the url happened to be available. >> what do you think of that one? does this seem like a rip-off, does that look like a rip-off? i kind of like it. >> maybe a subsidiary of us. what do you think? >> we're not sure if we would

let you get away with it. >> we'll be negotiating for the remainder of the show. thank you very much for being here. much success. think modo. i still don't know what it means but i know one thing, it means success. appreciate it, for you guys and your clients. the obama administration says the boston bombing suspect is not an enemy combatant. well, then, what is he? fox legal analysts with the answers in "dobbs law." uestion: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed: the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you ed to enjoy all of these years. ♪

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senator lindsey graham today railed against the government's handling of the boston marathon bomber case. listen to this. >> we don't believe we're at war. we're fighting a crime. these are wayward people and this is really not that big of

deal. give them a lawyer, read them miranda rightings, we'll plea bargain and we're not finding radical islamists who hate our guts. the signal we're sending is we're disarming ourselves. >> the senator had a belly full of the nonsense he's been hearing about what's happened in boston and the fellow who's no longer an enemy combatant. lis wiehl, fox legal analyst. what in the world are they doing in boston? how do you feel about what lindsey graham said? >> i don't agree with him. i don't think they could try him as an enemy combatant. it was a crime, a terrorist attack on u.s. soil by a u.s. citizen. that equals a federal court. they didn't mirandize him for a couple days.

>> the administration said you can kill an american citizen with a missile from a drone but you can't call him an enemy combatant. help me through that. >> i'm a little upset because i said i would only do this segment if lis took her normal position that everybody should go down -- >> i now. >> now she's being rational, legal, and that's what makes this country great. litigators, those who study systems all over the world, this is at the heart of what makes america a great nation in achieving justice. the same day we want to use all of -- >> by the way, though -- >> what make this is a great nation are the hundreds of thousands of americans who have gone out in uniform to defend it and our rights and who have killed the enemy -- >> lou -- >> and have done so and will do so again. >> and our rights. we're a nation of laws. those laws apply to everyone. that's why if we don't have a king like there was 300 years

ago -- >> speaking of the king >> sorr. i'm think they should go with death penalty, they can with what they charged, weapons of mass destruction. >> mayor bloomberg says the constitution has to change after the boston bombing. he compared it to the gun debate. i mean -- >> it is -- >> what in the world is going on??3 c1 >> his wording is trying to say, completely inarticulate and the wrong way, there is no expectation of public privacy, especially on the public street, especially in big cities. >> he's talking about people taking away our rights as he tries to take away our rights. he wants to roll back the second amendment. >> and cigarettes. >> come on. >> mayor bloomberg's -- >> he's a one-man terrorist -- >> i will quote justice scalia, he said, when you find people as intelligent as the people in the room who created the

constitution, then we'll have a constitutional convention. until then, the constitution is staying just the way it is. >> but it doesn't have to change to do this. >> we'll be right back. we'll take a look at the fbi's -- well, part of it's been a pretty tough week. they got the wrong guy in the ricin letter case. we'll hear the counselors on that important issue. ♪ right.ut the most important feature of all is... the capital one purchase eraser. i can redeem the double miles i earned with my venture card to erase recent travel purchases. d with a few clicks, this mission never happened. uh, what's this button do? [ electricity zaps ] ♪ you requested backup? yes. yes i did. what's in your wallet?

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let's turn to the ricin case. now the mississippi elvis impersonator is no longer a suspect after his name, picture and everything has been broadcast across the world. what's going on, arthur? >> it was a huge mistake. i mean, they spent a week -- incarcerated for a week. they went to his house. found no traces of the beans to make this. they found no evidence of the materials it would take to make this, like a blender, nothing in

his home or cars. or nothing on his computer. they made a great mistake but the greatness of our system, they figured it out -- >> and they had probable cause to search his house and vehicles. there must have been enough there to at least go in. >> let's get to it. is he a rich man now? does he have a great lawsuit? >> he does have a lawsuit against the government, absolutely. such a high profile -- >> how about they go into your home, we're accusing you of trying to kill the president of the united states, a judge -- think about the mental part of it, as well as being behind bars. i'm trying to kill the president? ♪ nothing but a hound dog >> keep your day job. >> you're so mean. lo >> you know the government is going to say, government in unity, we had probable cause for the warrant. they'll shield themselves with that. >> it shows why we need to follow the rules and follow the

law. you take this story and you -- and you piggyback it to the boston story. that's why we need to be a nation of laws and follow the rules that have been set down for over 200-some odd years. >> i couldn't second you loud enough on that. and i would probably conference in mayor bloomberg, as you said it. let's turn to the facebook situation. a guy is giving away an ar-15 and facebook shuts him down. i mean, that's pretty rough. and then they leave up -- they leave up, you know, these apologists for terrorists in boston. what's that all about? >> this is a frightening evening, lou -- look at arthur -- because i'm going to agree. this is really scary. look, facebook has a thing that says right there on the terms of the agreement, you can't have contests, you can't be promoting products and things like that. a very clear violation, again, of the law of facebook, the

agreement with its customers. they had to shut it down. >> but facebook's got a political group itself. this is becoming -- it's a gateway on ideologically, politically and now in terms of the public arena. >> so, this is going to go back to bloomberg, right? he has this huge superpac, he has a blind hold over bloomberg media properties and he's the mayor of the city of new york. it's the world we're living in. it's all blurring, right? media, money, politics -- >> it's not blurring. you're talking about a concentration of power in the hands of a few. and there is nothing -- there is nothing -- >> scary. >> -- in our nation's founding that anticipated this -- >> correct. >> -- circumstance. >> capitalism at its worst. >> are we agreeing on everything tonight? i'm sorry. >> i'm a capitalist. i'm also a great believer in this great republic, but i sure do like that democracy.

>> i love the moms and pops. >> and we love lis wiehl and arthur. thank you both for being here. that's it for us tonight. we'll see you tomorrow. good night from new york. >> announcer: the folling is a paid presentation for the nutribullet, brought to you by nutribullet, llc. [♪...] >> ...my muscle aches, my backaches really started to decrease significantly in one week. >> the first night that i actually used the nutribullet, i actually slept really well. that was exciting. that was phenomenal. >> the bad cholesterol, which was 290, went down to 0. >> the changes that i saw in myself and my family were just amazing. >> announcer: join these people and thousands just like them and discover a machine that finally has the power to take years off the way you look and feel. learn from nutrition expert and bestselling author david wolfe, who speaks to sold-out audiences around the wor