the "the cost of freedom." we continue with neil cavuto right now did is group of two already derail this gang of eight? hi, everyone. >> ed to have you. i'm neil cavuto. immigration reform plan that looked rey to roll now just looking like it might get rolled. the senate judiciary committee will start marking up a bl in less than two weeks. lawmakers are already saying that because of boston, maybe we need to stop things, period. this coming as the house gets ready to roll out a series of immigration plans of its own. the first of which won't touch border security pretty much at all. so if dc can't get it together on keeping us safer, is anyone safe? to ben stein, glad to see you. as you can tell, he's glad to be

back. charles payne, dagen mcdowell. we've also got adam and charlie sparino. welcome all. charles payne, what are we to make of this? >> the thing we got to worry about, everyone tching the show has to worry about something that's rushed, hand fisted, wait fort fog to clear because you're going to really love it when you gethe details kind of plan. we don't need anything to score political points. but you can't push a plan through without border security being first and foremost. i think almost every other day we learn about how awful this obamacare thing is. so just to put something through that both sides can stay to a certain bloc of voters we like you you is a huge mistake. >> ben stein? >> 100% agree with you about the political pandering this to this panic vote. i've never seen anything quite so explicit in my life in terms of pandering to an ethnic group. it's embarrassing on behalf of both parties.

i think -- >> i think whether you're pandering or not, the fact is you're delaying what looked like close at hand reform. i don't know if that's a good or bad thing. >> may i respectfully ask why does the connection between border security and the tsarnaev brothers who came over on an airplane, they didn't slip through the border and as far as i know, none of the terrorists suspects in any of the major terrorism have come slipping through th mexican border. >> okay. i didn't think about it. charles payne, i think the issue that i agree th and gasparino raised with you is now they want to police the focuses who are already here to ben stein's point. so for all good valid reasons. but it is going to complicate this process or make for a thicker bill or whatever. >> shouldn't it complicate it a little bit? listen, i have a problem with having a welfare state and open borders. that, to me, is problematic. milton freedman said, you can't have both and pay your bills.

when you have terrorm, it's another dimension. listen, yes, we haven't had a terrorist jump across the rio grande lately or since 9-11. but it's the same sort of checks and balances that go on. those guys got into the country pretty damn easy. people can come in from other parts of the world pretty damn easy. immigration reform, when they do it, will affect not just mexico, but it will affect every country that com -- anybody from any country that comes here. >> dagen, when i talked to marco rubio about this, this is a name dropper. >> no kidding. a boot liquor, apparently. >> thank you very much. but anyway, when i did talk to marco rubio, who is first exclusively on my show, one of the things he raised was, look, neil, we can address these provisions. they're provisions for tighter border security, but we can go ahead and have a stricter process to focus on the individuals who are already

here. but we're not at that in the legislation that you put out just yet. so it does mean, going back to the drawing board, right? >> it could possibly mean going back to the drawing board. but what those senators are trying to do is a lot more pallatable than what's going on in the house because they want to address all of these things in one fail swoop so they don't get in fight after fight after fight with interest groups. what's going on in the house, they're trying to deal with this piecemeal. first you move on agricultural worker visas, then you move on, say, security checks by employers, and then they push border security down the road. that's where it will never get done. >> that, igree with. i brought that point up as well with rand paul. anyway, i think this thing is dead. stick a fork in it. i don't think it should be, but i think in this environment, no one wants to be in the front of the line saying, i got a legal

immigration plan. i just don't think it's going to happen any time soon. >> well, neil, i found that over my many years of talking to you, that's my name droppingor this segment is that you are almost always right on these tactical political issues where it doesn't have anything to do with ideology. i'm sad to hear you say that. >> what's the rush in this environment? i don't want to look like i'm giving up on these things at all that neil's panelists were talkingbout. >> i think you're right. the reason i say i'm sad, pandering, we -- politics is pappedderring. -- pandering. that's a given. but we're not rushing here. we've been trying to do immigration reform since president george w. bush tried and failed because his party wouldn't support him on this. >> actually we did that to ronald reagan and rouxed the day because ronald reagan said he

was hood winked. >> what we can say on this program because we're not politicians is that there is no connection between the boston bombing and immigration reform. these were two legal immigrants in the united states. that's a horrible police and terrorism issue, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact we are a nation of immigrants and we want -- >> but they want to make it part of it. ben stein, and maybe for perfectly valid reasons. maybe it should be a separate bill or separate matter, but they want to make it part of this bill and this matter to police those who are already here and include in this bill. good or bad idea? >> we've got to police them somehow. if the guys who are here should have been already picked up, the tsarnaevs should have been picked up by the f.b.i. under existing legislation, under existing law. they were tipped off by the russians. their c.i.a. tipped off the f.b.i something went badly wrong of the the law was -- >> if you're right. >> i don't think we need new laws.

>> that's what i was going to say. if you're right. and by the way, let's cut the f.b.i. some slack. it's very easy to second guess that not everybody followed up on this or that. they have a lot of work to do. >> i agree. >> we always know about the things they miss and hindsight is always 20/20. but the fact of the matter is, that is coming to light. what'slso coming to light in this environment, charles payne, is that this heightened security push is pushing almost everything else off the table. you could talk about illegal immigration. you could talk about ever getting the budget under control. you could talk about a lot of other stuff. this is front and center and obviously multi tasking. >> definitely bad at multi tasking, particularly something like this, which to your point, it's consuming a lot of energy. public relations energy, hindsight energy, forward looking energy. but we do have to do something with immigration. it's been too long. our population is aging. our birth rates are down. but we need to find a way to get smart people into this country.

>> that's good for the economy and the number one issue in that new fox news poll were jobs and the economy. >> you said that we need to get smart people into this country. are you rulingutb people? >> we've got 2 million stem jobs and we're not graduating enough people who can do them. >> there is an agricultural guest worker programs. >> i believe it when i see it. >> it's in the bill. >> it's in the bill. >> john mccain told me just that. he said, neil -- and he's from a border state. >> right. that was monday on fox business. anyway, do you think tha the president's health care law is not going to cost you? think again. don't take my word for it. listen tow back to cavuto.

>> you'll have to get the money from sewhere else to pay all of this. where do you think that's going to come from? >> more taxes. there are so many hidden taxes in the affordable health care bill, which is a strange name, that we all are going to be paying, you know, initially, just the rich. and then the semi rich. and then the nonrich.

>> neil: yeah, that ben carson, talking to me. anyway, dr. ben carson's diagnosis is looking spot on, especially with washington state, among others now looking to put thousands of state workers into these health care exchanges at the expense of taxpayers who are probly getting f.b.i.d off about it because they'll be paying for it, right, dagen? >> absolutely. if you think medicare looks bad, medicare is a walk in the park to what this thing could be in terms of the complexity of it, in terms of the cost of it. >> neil: i don't know two people who know -- in other words, who can agree on its provisions, even how doctors are going to get paid. >> look at senator max baucus, one of the authors of this, looks at sebelius and says this is a train wreck. >> neil: but i admired him early on. wasn't he the guy who said, charles payne, we have people to read this? >> exactly. >> neil: when you start saying, i had people to read this --

>> hhs has missed dozens of deadlines -- >> there is a lot we don't know. but what we do know, draconian interpretation is full time work. this is going to destroy people. their hours are going to go from 40 to less than 30. we know a -- >> neil: a lot of this is already happening. >> a lot of states aren't prepared. the $40 an hour to tell you there is a platinum gold, bronze, that's a farce. >> deadline is october 1 for these state exchanges. good luck meeting that, too. >> neil: in a way, what's going to happen, we will get a singer payer system. >> absolute israeli -- absolutely. i really do believe that the idea was eventually to get to that and this is a way to make sure of that. >> yeah. and what was scary about the debate around the health care, i believe, is that there weren't enough -- the media didn't do enough work in talking to people like dr. carson.

my brother is a doctor, works in icu area in philadelphia. they will tell you the thing is a mess. they don't know how it's going to happen or be rolled out or paid for. particularly in inner cities. that's the scary part, too. >> neil: adam, what do you think? >> i just think i'm disappointed with my friends, with the pessimism of my friends on this panel. [ laughter ] you people -- >> hey, breaking new we're not your friends. >> neil: no, no, no. >> you know that's not true. >> seriously, if charli if you had been at th continental congress, you would have said, we can never put these 13 colonies together. >> give me a break. >> you would have said, this is never going to work! >> come on, come on. >> neil: ben stein was at the continental congress. and ben, it's night and day, the comparison is night and day, right? >> this is a train wreck is

putting it mildly. a train wreck into a junkyard, a catastrophe. they're never going to be able to figure it out. the idea that the congress voted on a bill that they did not -- they're unaware, is almost unbelievable. the fact they're making the insurance companies take even the sickest customers, it's going to drive up heth care costs. it's going to be a nightmare of confusion. i feel very sad fort doctors. i feel bad for everybody. it is a nightmare. >> neil: i was surprised it's costing more. are you surprised when you get that many more on the covage and the premiums don't go up that if you want to get the medical device, that you're going to be paying more, tt bottom line it will cost more. >> i want to defend the continental congress just so you know. they did read the documents in front of them. >> neil: there was not one italian at the continental congress. >> i'm not going there. but in any event, they read the documents in front of them. what was scary about this is

they didn't understand it. >> did not read this! they didn't read it. that's why it's unfolding in this bizarre way. >> i just want to make a prediction because you can see this coming with health and human services missing all these rule making deadlines. millions of dollars set aside for people to help get workers on to these exchanges, the government is going to ask for more and more and more money because they can't implement it the way -- >> neil: you have not seen the master plan, back to my theory. with all due respect to adam -- >> you may be right about that. >> neil: aha! you agree with that, that was part of your strategy, to get people sucked in. we're going to cover you for everything, the insurance company will raise their premiums to the point that everyone will hate them. state workers will leave their present system and join these exchanges and then private workers will follow, especially those who have been dumped from their employers' plan, and then it will be uncle sam poviding coverage for all. >> there is no doubt that a

single payer system was what many of the policy makers wanted and obviously would have worked better than the mish mash we've got. once again, neil, i think your tactical -- >> neil: i'm telling you, that is where this is going. >> you're right. >> common sense, everyone knew it was going to be a disaster. if you were honest about it. but i think to listen to dr. carson sound bite from that exclusive interview. before get to your master plan scenario, i think everyone in this country is going to pay a lot more than they were told. >> neil: they already are. >> and the master plan -- >> the medical device thing will probably goway. almost everyone involved in the behindhe scenes cobbling this together, which this industry is going to get a break -- >> neil: let's take away the medical device because that's been a real burden. you got to get the money from somewhere. where are you going to get it? >> what's already happening is the best doctors don't accept insurance at a. you have to pay cash. the rich are going to get great health care and everybody else is going to suffer at the hands

of the government. >> neil:en stein is like first in line. when we come back, the latest union power play isn't on the assembly line. it's on the fast food line. they're trying to cook up higher wages for fast food workers. but is it just a move to see up more union members? the forbes gang digging into it at the top of the hour. up next, apple riding $100illion check -- writing a $100 billion check this week. i want you to forget about how much cash apple is spending and focus on where it is spending

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>> rand paul. i wond what are he'll tell them that he didn't tell me. shoppers still loving apple products, but not shong much love for its stock. do arod 40% sin it hit00 buck remeer tt? th wasevenonthgo. at 7 mons a. w th comny is sndin 00illi tingouy t ve bac ad wil it wor >> itillrk ierms stilizg th sto pce. theyre browi mon to pay neyut i th unid stes. mo ofhat ney is sting abro. en? >> the money would have otherwise been stashed in the bank. it is better to give it to the people in the company. >> looks like a turn quiet and open wound.

it stabilized things and not much more. >> not much more. the president a year ago railed against ton of cash. you are the bad guys and spend that money. we saw a wave of bay back dividend increase. >> he didn't want them to spend it that way. >> if he was honest he would give them a break and let them bring back 400 billion. a hundred in buy backings and we would get a stimulus program of two or three hundred billion. >> last time -- >> core late the unemployment when bush gave the exemption and over the next 12 or 24 months unemployment rate dropped. >> what year did that happened? >> who cares? >> that is what we are talking about the cash on the balance sheets. he was asked why is it still

still there? >> he said we live in a post 9/11 world. >> you keep cash on hand. >> if you are a shareholder, apple. you don't want them to make stupid acquisition to spend it like when sisco bought. >> you should should makes. sam sung is catching up. >> tt's not how you do it. >> i am no expert but that has hendenberg all over it. i thank charl yedagen. i thank charl yedagen. sell your stock negligence [ male announcer ] it's simple physics... a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion.

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>> get out of the market in may and start in the fall. our gang am buck that trend. this one, higher demand and prices. >> adam, what do you think? >> i love it but it is already way up. look at illinois tool workings that is expensive and pays a generous dividend. >> ben, what do you >> it is a great company. >> what are you doing? >> i like the taiwan, they make everything and well. they are a power. >> i love it, too.

three and four billion came to taiwan. familiar the money and follow ben. >> guysing thank you very much. the cost of the freedom continues on this place for business. you are watching, fox. >> we draw the line in the sand that we are about america. we are american jobs. i am sick and tired. can you imagine paying the dam crazy countries that we get ou oils from instepped of brothers and sister necessary canada. >> a slam bang defense . key stone pipe line. unileaders demanding that the white house stop draggg their feet and c jobs and help a industry that is booming with private money and make the police less dependent on foreign oil. welcome toor