or above, and still pay the mid-size price. this is awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is, business pro. yes, it is. go national. go like a pro. neil: we are celebrating the deficits come and is not as big as we thought. only in washington. only in washington can they celebrated us a visit that is no longer a trillion dollars. welcome, i am no curto. when it gets down to $700 billion or so, you'd think the you hit the jackpot, sort of like the guy 700 pounds loses 10 pounds and thinks that he is

winning the battle. ababout $231 billion last than this time last year. that is $16.7 trillion. a flood of retiring baby boomers just keeps getting in. it usually proves that they grow to have a depressing and they ultimately end up in those places. so let's not get ahead of ourselves and think that we have t a triple this because we broke up on third base. we did not.

former house republican leader dick armey warned his colleagues not to use this as an excuse to give up the spending fight. but dick, i'm worried that's what will happen. >> i think the republicans need to understand that they have a special place right now in this country. the whole obama administration, 90% of the press, they are in a sea of delusion. and if the republicans don't compel some sensible, solid ground and understand that the biggest threat to american prosperity is the size and

clumsinessf the american government. we must correct that or face dire consequences for generations to come. the republicans don't claim that ground -- if they don't asserted strongly, we could all be ou there on an iceberg or headed for one like the titanic. this is a serious problem. neil: they have given up the ghost. i am hearing their latest negotiating tactic, they are going to push for a simplified tax code. but in the quest for tax reform, they have essentially taken away is push for spending cuts. would he make of that? >> well, i think it is the old cart and horse velocit obviously since it was put together in 1984. that is the correct answer on taxes. but remember what milton friedman thomas. e real level of taxation is the level of spending. the real problem with this

nation is burden with, we have a government that is too big and too wasteful. we have a government that spends $11 million to create one green job in an area of the economy that is nowhere near mature to contribute to the overall well-being of the economy. we have to correct this. the republicans can't understand , the requirement is to be on the spending side, and no amount of tax simplification can compensate. >> when i hear the administration bragging about the revenue coming in and saying that it justifies tax hikes and republicans then sort of give up the fight on spending cuts,for whatever meritorious reasons.

>> minimizing is what it is. let's take something that is laudable, and we will take that as our second-best solution while we surrender on what is urgent and necessary. we will take what is convenient they are slow learners, but they are also people who only learn that which is politically convenient to their ideologically define objectives. we must voice reality. >> my fear is they have given up another chance to raise our voice.

>> the president using a money-based schemin the white house to showcase women and children that he said apple benefited mightily from the wall ready, including free mammograms and other preventative care. look all the good that it is building. >> it is meaning that women who depend on their husbands, which they do depend on their husbands

for health insurance, are going to be left out in the da when it comes to health insurance. not to mention one of the groups today at the white house is planned parenthood and they don't provide mammograms. also, they areheavily invested in air force history, whi is completely opposite of mother's day to. neil: the one thing that i see here is the dismissal of the other nasty stuff. but it doesn't seem to be fizzling for as many people. before a lot of average americans, paying higher premiums, dealing with the curto benefits, it's not panning out. >> you have senior premiums go

up. >> for this to work, you need a big risk pool. and we need healthy people to be in the pool. now the exchanges have so many regulations, they are supposed to be guarteed issue, meaning no prexisting condition. might as well get your insurance, because it's going to be too costly. neil: i thank you both very

much. in the meantime, instead of being ready to part with $25 billion today, that is a deal for dell that has everyone saying that this could be the saying that this could be the start of something very all stations come over to mission a for a final go. this is for real this time. step seven point two one two. rify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers.

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neil: making it big play for the struggling computer maker dell. you're on the phone with us, karl, good to have you ck on. how are you doing thiis a

company, you honestly disagree. why is that? >> i'm a little surprised by that. it seems li this sale is a giveaway. i can go into details with you if i want.

because dell has a lot of great stuff there and you know? neil: what you like about it? >> well, first of all, if i may say, it has been disingenuous as far as i'm concerned. i won't go into the ambiguity the issue really is that one part is the enterprise software. they put this together, buying

software, putting it in together for 26 years. so dell has a bunch of enterprise software. they are entrenched in many businesses. they are working with peop that are in there and this is a business that really has great potential. >> it's a no-brainer. >> have you talked to michael about this? have you guys and your people ever talk about it?

>> with all due respect,. >> you have this company for $1.65. i think the software business will increase dramatically. it still has a great deal with

microsoft and intel to a possible merger. so my basic point is you have a company earning this and had tremendous potential. so without question, you don't have to be a financial phd to understand. neil: >> your deal is almost too good be true. it's just too unmolested for words. now, how do you come back and say that you are just preventing this as a no-brainer, when in fact, it is not. how do you counter that? >> i mean, get them on the show if you.

>> so i guess that you have not talked directly to them? >> there's no sense in talking to them for that. if they are, it's easier to say that the risk of this, if you look back at our records, there's well over 20% a year since 2000, so if you look at some companies, i think that we need to change his management and look at all the other ones.

and in each case, we change manageme in new york says this was no good. but in this case, can even understand how they can say it is so good. so you have to tell me what they are saying. neil: the company - if they are investors in the company to get richer with your deal, you would think that they would need that deal. >> i would think so. >> and they are not. neil: maybe they don't like you. >> excuse me -- neil: maybe this is all personal. >> they should've done it

themselves. i mean, now i think it is too late. because i really think the new management team would make us feel a lot more profitable. but i don't think shareholders feel that way. they have been commendably critical. >> yes, they have, they must certainly have. >> so who would be improper for not having those around? >> and is always a pleasure, thank you very much. >> sure thing. neil: in california, if you are an illegalome you can go to college. in new york city, pretty soon

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>> the big apple in this immigratn debate. letting noncitizens vote.

the premise of this is what? >> this is not something that i've been talking about. this is an initiative on what i have read that some council members are supporting. yet a large percentage of the population can vote. and yet they are not engaged in this life. >> is a measure that allows residents to vote in new york city election.

>> all right, so if they are here on visas or green cards, green ard holders, but they are not citizens. >> that's right. >> and you say that they should know? >> they are part of the city. but they are not citizens. >> if you look at the history of the country. >> i know that. >> what i am trying to save say is that for most of our countries history, citizenship wasn't a requirement for voting. what was required was that you own property and therefore you pay taxes. neil: it is 2013. >> in california, there a lot of states are doing free education in a variety of things that

include legal citizens of this country. now you are expending the last right to vote. what would compel you to become a citizen? >> well, people want to be citizens. >> want to be american. we want to be citizens. >> the backlog to become a citizen could take you 10 years, from the point where you become eligible to be a citizen to the through the bureaucratic nightmare. >> we should be engaging people. >> i see the democrats trying to lock in a vote. okay, but disavow me of this remark now the tea party is different. back then, they very clearly there should be no part of the.

>> a part of this do not get? >> no taxation without representation. that is what this country is founded on. >> you don't get what i'm saying. >> one last thing is the right to vote. until you become a citizen, you don't vote. >> that they want to become citizens. >>es, i want to be michael phelps, but i'm not going to be in the pol. okayyouare in the race for mayor. neil: anthony wiener wants to break into this.

obviously he needs work things out ith his wife. >> do you think he should do it? >> yes. >> there are already a lot of candidates, you already have the republican party to the democratic party, there a lot of people who wan to make some changes. >> this is city that gravitates. and you are a great guy. but you are just not resonating as much as some of the better-known names. >> this is what an election campaign is all about. the campaign is just getting started. >> thank you again.

neil: we are talking real estate on fox business. you are selling, it won't just be a chunk of cash. just be a chunk of cash. now, uncle sam wants you hurt my feelings, todd. i did? when visa signature asked everybody what upgraded experiences really mattered... you suggested luxury car service instd of "strength training with patrick wils." come on todd! flap them chicken wings. [ grunts ] well, i travel a lot and umm... [ male announcer ] at visa signature, every upgradedxperience comes from listening to our cardholders. visa signature. your idea of what a card should be.

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have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪ neil: the president has been planning a lot of freebies and hihealth care law.

for one thing, the 3.8% medicare tax on proceeds from asset sales like a home. they admire the president, but not when it comes to this. including a big real estate developer who feels more for the hit. especially if they try to sell this property. do you think this is real estate potential undoing? >> i don't think it's on undoing. but what it will slow the process down. the challenge here is that it will discourage sellers who don't have to sell. by now we have new york city that is a hot market. real estate has really turned around. new york, miami, washington the week, the lack of inventory. as the impact of slowing things

down. what this does is accounts for a 60% increase in long-term capital gains tax rates. what that does is commercial office buildings, commercial property buildings. >> absolutely. you are you're thinking about the price we have to pay to ake up for that. >> even if y get a big bump in sales prices, sales prices are up in real-time price increases. all this is taken away.

>> do people know about this? the capital gains in all of this? >> a lot of people don't know about it. the commercialarket understands it and knnws about it because they're more sophisticated about what is going on here. >> would you guys do around the? you just hold off on asset sales? >> you wait until prices are increasing or you refinance. and you don't selloff this building. >> we waiting for? >> well,you can take cash out without having to pay taxes. >> summer hoping we don't know where we will get the money. real risk fiscal reform is not

happening yt. >> it's just not happening. >> in the business community we do have a voice within the administration. >> i agree with the goal. >> they there complete with this medicare tax and all these other tax. it is the beauty of a two-party system, hopefully there will be some checks and balances. >> there are checks and balances in the congress to get rid of this. so i'm hopeful tt they will get greater reform. >> the adversarial process.

>> okay, not for a while. you know, i believe that all this should, who can, bring the private sector experience. >> obviously you see what a process that is. well, you have the private sector to do this. >> it is challenging. we have michael bloomberg for 12 years, he is an amazing manager and others at how to run a city like a business and ne york city got through a very difficult time. so the private sector, those of us -- >> you are seeing more than that. neil: wen you do wrong, run, will you announce it first with me? >> yes.

neil: okay, thank you very much. both parties instantly should make their decisions. espn, phone home. espn, phone home. sports everywhere, all over, all

at od, whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in. with premium service like one of thbest on-me delivery records and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business. od. helpg the world keep promises. omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business.

and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could. go national. go like a pro. neil: espn in the phone business and young folks not exactly buying into this real estate business. we have more with jonathan hoenig. es really wants to watch their network so much that they are looking to flip the bill to your wireless data plan if you watch their programming. is that a smart move? >> that is an incrediblymart move and it's one of the reasons that there is a new 52 week

high. espn is owned by the parent company disney. they're trying to figure out how to service their customers. they are navigating what is a new media environment without asking for a subsidy from government or anyone, they are actually thinking about their customers and obviously the responsible amount of time as well. >> two things come to mind, the place where your cable television industry tookwing. i am really struck by how similar this is.. i am really struck by how similar this is. would have been a very established order of three big networks and that's the way it is, that's the way the world works, suddenly we are pitched into this wildly different environment they went from very

predictable to suddenly it is alover the map. mobile has become so important to to espn that they are saying that they will pay for it. it is a crazy time in the business. >> all right, guys. sales are down, allwing cuomers to leave big-ticket items with an option to buy them later on. jonathan, you see a little bit of risk in this? >> well, the risk is government. i mean, doctor but the economy goes south are you saying that he made leases to people who could not afford those washing machines nd plasma tvs >> and it is acting as a non-bank wonder here. and government has tightened the

restrictions, even going back a number of years to the credit card applications. a lot of custer customers don't have credit or they are going to shoulder that credit and leasing merchandise out he went for them come into went for customers, and i get will be a win for shareholders as well. >> government notwithstanding, everything goes coolly and you know what. would he think of this? >> were this is a storyf things not working. this is the brick-and-mortar retail business, having real struggles, trying to figure out innovative ways to stay relevant. the story of the credit and financial system not providing what it needs t end the retailers having to respond and i think it's a story of the middle class not working right. where economic vitality is being drained that retailers have to find a way to pump new life into it. this is the downside of the economic revolution.

>> i always thought if you can't afford omething, don't find something. in the meantime, real estate prices are beginning to rebound. but is that good for the younger generation. despite low interest rates and prices, all my nails know is that they just are not into it. would he think of that? >> well, it is hard to tell. the one thing that i will say is that everybody has to have a place to live than it does feel ke the housing market, while it is certainly absorbing the body blows and taking the shots, it's something that you always find rebounding. we look back at the carter era interest rates and the early reagan era interest rates. it took a body blow and people manage to adapt. >> when you talk about kids needing a place to live, they just move in with her parents and they don't leave. >> i think that is a possibility.

those demographics and those economics will clearly play into the next just as they did in the past. >> well, i think they are smarter this time round. they saw the danger to your point of buy more stock, buy more anything than you can afford. this time they are actually being a little bit smarter about it. government is manipulating interest rates so low that we have had 30 years of this incredible oil market. i think that smart young people want to walk in those raids just as they have in the past week. neil: thank you guysvery much. with the spark cash card from capital one... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smitcontract, ease? thank you.

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neil: maybe you don't like it, maybe you're taking things personally. >> but they are taking away his@ deal. they should've done it themselves. >> they could have done it themselves. and i think it's too late. i really think a new management team would make this deal a lot more profitable. >> this s both business and now it is personal. telling you a short time ago that this is something that is not quitting and we wonder how michael dell and his cohorts could dismiss it so easily. maybe it is personal. would he make of this? >> is essentially saying that he sees value in he toldyou

exactly where the value is in jail. he talks about an enterprise software business. he also said here's what his plan is. he would break it up and sell it toicrosoft or hewlett-packard. we have seen this in the past with time warner he got in a fight there, and the other story is motorola in 2007, but you should basically be more about the patent business.

>> he doesn't have to stick around to make a lot of money. >> that is right. how much is in this for the long term. >> they backed out of that, yahoo fight -- he does get in and out. when i heard your interview with him, i immediately thought to my elf that he is in this for the long term. he wants to keep that publicly traded. he thinks there is value there. a couple of months ago he di have $15 a share. and that is after blackstone backed off because the news came out that business is eroding. >> he would walk away.

>> neither is the other team. i think the name of the game is here. they don't want them to be private,. >> you know that u could make a lot more money, no matter how much the personal issues are involved here. >> there are 16% over the board. >> out of 60% that is going to make a lot of money make a lot of money. >> yes. that is the thing.

they can't even do what they did he threaten to say that i am going t put thisgainst you and wipe out your whole record. he said he has targeted. again, he is telling you exactly what he sees and anything else that goes with it. neil: okay, thank you very much it is so smart that it is scary. okay, we have heard it all from the president. the health care love will save money and save lives. but you won't believe what it's

but you won't believe what it's going to do now, it will welcome to the new buffalo... where new york state is investing one billion but you won't believe what it's going to do now, it will dollars to attract and grow business. where companies like geico are investing in technology & finance. welcome to the state where cutting taxes for business... is our business. welcome to the new buffalo. welcome to the new buffalo. welcome to the new buffalo. new york state is throwing out the old rule book to give your business a new edge, the edge you can only get in new york state. torow our start your business, visit thenewny.com

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>> i had a friend that had a bad marriage just so she could have health insurance. we hope that this results in less bad marriages. neil: a democratic lawmaker says that the health care law will be good for marriages because it won't force you into the wrong one. in other words, i'm going to hook up with this dude because he or she has health care and i don't. have any of you actually done that? >> anyway, are you buying any of that? to gina, what do you make of her argument?

>> what she was talking about with your friends, but this bill has done to families, what this administration has done for families, you can never say that anything this administration is pushing out, it's strengthening the ties. >> what she is saying is that it will strengthen the proper relationship and not the improper ones. >> essentially this reminds me of welfare. it destroyed this, just the idea that peoplcouldn't get

married. people came to the house to check up on you. it is saying that it is okay because you have obamacare taking care rebels are at of course,. >> there are fewer bad marriages that are out there. >> this talksbout how we are. >> it disappoints me about the congress and you are really perverting what the subject matter is. i had no idea this was going to prevent people from choosing this because they want access to

insurance. the important thing is that we are helping more americans get insurance. >> obviously there is a connection. >> i have seen the movie. i think we know a lot more about this. >> i can tell you the number one thing that breaks down marriages is financial. >> the health care law now means that you don't have to do that kind of thing. >> opinions are going up. the costs are going up on middle-class family. we know that this is hurting real working families and young

people who don't have access to medical savings accounts are all kinds of impacts that are very unhealthy. >> regardless of race or backgrounds or not that's right. >> i'm just thinking from a personal point of view. t theoretically not on paper. and i'm telling you. neil: just to get the benefit. >> you're going to get all the benefits that you could've gotten in the manage. and it chips away the notion of the foundation of being married. >> this isn't about welfare. it's about insurance. neil: is a glorified welfare? >> drying from what i know, because we have discussed this many times, many people want a single-payer plan. but that isot what we went with her had we have a plan that is getting more people insurance. it could turn into something

like that, but that's not how it is envisioned right now. this is about 80 people who would've gone to the emergency room or insome circumstance, would've gotten married to someone they don't love. you don't have to do that. >> if you look at a teenage girl, let's say she turns up pregnant. she started her family. if you look at security and all the measures out there for the elderly, if they have it build relationship with their child, well, the government will take care of them. >> we are a generous country and i don't think anyone is upset he

. >> ali are saying is that we can't use it as a pickup linear. melissa: happy mother's day to the moms. nicole petallides is up next. nicole: i'm nicole petallides and fort melissa francis. here's some 85 today. gabba announced stronger than expected sales in april. shares rallied more than 5% on the news. owning 39 million shares. that means she made $85 million today. also making "money," pulse em, the u.s. government's court its biggest monthly surplus of five years. the budget surplus, said to be because of higher taxes and improving income. and ryan gosling making "money." warner brothers is buying the u.s. rights to a