neil: we are celebrating the deficits come and is not as big as we thought. only in washington. only in washington can they celebrated us visit that is no longer a trillion dollars. welcome, i am norto. when it gets down to $700 billion or so, you'd think the you hit the jackpot, sort of like the guy 700 pounds loses 10 pounds and thinks that he is

winning the battle. about $231 billion last than this time last year. that is $16.7 trillion. a flood of retiring baby boomers just keeps getting in. it usually proves that they grow to have a depressing and they ultimately end up in those places. so let's not get ahead of ourselves and think that we have hit a triple this because we broke up on third base. we did not.

former house republican leader dick armey warned his colleagues not to use this as an excuse to give up the spending fight. but dick, i'm worried that's what will happen. >> i think the republicans need to understand that they have a special place right now in this country. the whole obama administration, 90% of the press, they are in a sea of delusion. and if the republicans don't compel some sensible, solid ground and understand that the biggest threat to american prosperity is the size and

clumsiness of the american government. we must correct that or face dire consequences for generations to come. the republicans don't claim that ground -- if they don't asserted strongly, we could all be out there on an iceberg or headed for one like the titanic. this is a serious problem. neil: they have given up the ghost. i am hearing their latest negotiating tactic, they are going to push for a simplified tax code. but in the quest for tax reform, they have essentially taken away this push for spending cuts. would he make of that? >> well, i think it is the old cart and horse velocity. obviously since it was put together in 1984. that is the correct answer on taxes. but remember what milton friedman thomas. the real level of taxation is the level of spending. the real problem with this

nation is burden with, we have a government that is too big and too wasteful. we have a government that spends $11 million to create one green job in an area of the economy that is nowhere near mature to contribute to the overall well-being of the economy. we have to correct this. the republicans can't understand , the requirement is to be on the spending side, and no amount of tax simplificatn can compensate. >> when i hear the administration bragging about the revenue coming in and saying that it justifies tax hikes and republicans then sort of give up the fight on spending cuts, for whatever meritorious reasons.

>> minimizing is what it is. let's take something that is laudable, and we will take that as our second-best solution while we surrender on what is urgent and necessary. we will take what is convenient they are slow learners, but they are also people who only learn that which is politically convenient to their ideologically defined objectives. we must voice reality. >> my fear is they have given up another chance to raise our voice.

>> the president using a money-based scheme in the white house to showcase women and children that he said apple benefited mightily from the wall ready, including free mammograms and other preventative care. look all the good that it is building. >> it is meaning that women who depend on their husbands, which they do depend on their husbands

for health insurance, are going to be left out in the dark when it comes to health insurance. not to mention one of the groups today at the white house is planned parenthood and they don't provide mammograms. also, they are heavily invested in air force history, which is completely opposite of mother's day to. neil: the one thing that i see here is the dismissal of the other nasty stuff. but it doesn't seem to be fizzling for as many people. before a lot of average americans, paying higher premiums, deali with the curto benefits, it's not panning out. >> you have senior premiums go

up >> for this to work, you need a big risk pool. and we need healthy people to be in the pool. now the exchanges have so many regulations, they are supposed to be guaranteed issue, meaning no pre-existing condition. might as well get your insurance, because it's going to be too costly. neil: i thank you both very

much. in the meantime, instead of being ready to part with $25 billion today, that is a deal for dell that has everyone saying that this could be the we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪

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neil: making it big play for the struggling computer maker dell. you're on the phone with us, karl, good to have you back on. how are you doing this is a company, you honestly disagree.

why is that? >> i'm a little surprised by that. it seems like this sale is a giveaway. i can go into details with you if i want.

because dell has a lot of great stuff there and you know? neil: what you like about it? >> well, first of all, if i may say, it has been disingenuous as far as i'm concerned. i won't go into the ambiguity the issue really is that one part is the enterprise software. they put this together, buying

software, putting it in together for 26 years. so dell has a bunch of enterprise software. they are entrenched in many businesses. they are working with people that are in there and this is a business that really has great potential. >> it's a no-brainer. >> have you talked to michael about this? have you guys and your people ever talk about it?

>> with all due respect,. >> you have this company for $1.65. i think the software business will increase dramatically. it still has a great deal with microsoft and intel to a

possible merger. so my basic point is you have a company earning this and had tremendous potential. so without question, you don't have to be a financial phd to understand. neil: >> your deal is almost too good to be true. it's just too unmolested for words. now, how do you come back and say that you are just preventing this as a no-brainer, when in fact, it is not. how do you counter that? >> i ean, get them on the show if you.

>> so i guess that you have not talked directly to them? >> there's no sense in talking to them for that. if they are, it's easier to say that theisk of this, if you look back at our records, there's well over 20% a year since 2000, so if you look at some companies, i think that we need to change his management and look at all the other ones.

and in each case, we change management in new york says this was no good. but in this case, i can even understand how they can say it is so good. so you have to tell me what they are saying. neil: the cmpany -- if they are investors in the company to get richer with your deal, you would think that they would need that deal. >> i would think so. >> and they are not. neil: maybe they don't like you. >> excuse me -- neil: maybe this is all personal. >> they should've done it

mean, no i think it is too late. because i really think the new management team would make us feel a lot more profitable. but i don't think shareholders feel that way. they have been commendably critical. >> yes, they have, they must certainly have. >> so who would be improper for not having those around? >> and is always a pleasure, thank you very much. >> sure thing. neil: in california, if you are an illegal come you can go to college. in new york city, pretty soon in new york city, pretty soon [ kitt ] you know what's impressive? a talking car. but i'll tell you what impresses me. a talking train. this ge locomotive can tell you exactly where it is, what it's carrying, while using less fuel. delivering whatever the world needs, when it needs it. ♪ after all, what's the point of talking if you don't have something important to say?

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>> the big apple in this immigration debate. letting noncitizens vote.

the premise of this is what? >> this is not something that i've been talking about. this is an initiative on what i have red that some council members are supporting. yet a large percentage of the population can vote. and yet they are not engaged in this life. >> is a measure that allows residents to vote in new york city election.

>> all right, so if they are here on visas or green cards, green card holders, but they e not citizens. >> that's right. >> and you say that they should know? >> they are part of the city. but they are not citizens. >> if you look at the history of the country. >> i know that. >> what i am trying to save say is that for most of our countries history, citizenship wasn't a requirement for voting. what was required was that you own property and therefore you pay taxes. neil: it is 2013. >> in california, there a lot of states are doing free education in a variety of things that

include legal citizens of this country. now you are expending the last right to vote. what would compel you to become a citizen? >> well, people want to be citizens. >> want to be american. we want to be citizens. >> the backlog to become a citizen could take you 10 years, from the point where you become eligible to be a citizen to the through the bureaucratic nightmare. >> we should be engaging people. >> i see the democrats trying to lock in a vote. okay, but disavow me of this remark now the tea party is different. back then, they very clearly there should be no part of the.

>> a part of this do not get? >> no taxation without representation. that is what this country is founded on. >> you don't get what i'm saying. >>ne last thing is the right to vote. until you become a citizen, you don't vote. >> that they want to become citizens. >> yes, i want to be michael phelps, but i'm not going to be in the pool. okay, you are in the race for mayor. neil: anthony wiener wants to break into this.

obviously he needs work things out with his wife. >> do you think he should do it? >> yes. >> there are already a lot of candidates, you already have the republican party to the democratic party, there a lot of people who want to make some changes. >> this is a city that gravitates. and you are a great guy. but you are just not resonating as much as some of the better-known names. >> this is what an election campaign is all about. the campaign is just getting started. >> thank you again.

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neil: the president has been planning a lot of freebies and his health care law.

for one thing, the 3.8% medicare tax on proceeds from asset sales like a home. they admire the president, but not when it comes to this. including a b real estate developer who feels more for the hit. espeally if they try to sell this property. do you think this is real estate potential undoing? >> i don't think it's on undoing. but what it will slow the process down. the challenge here is that it will discourage sellers who don't have to sell. by now we have new york city that is a hot market. real estate has really turned around. new york, miami, washington the week, the lack of inventory. as the impact of slowing things

down. what this does is accounts for a 60% increase in long-term capital gains tax rates. what that does is commercial office buildings, commercial property buildings. >> absolutely. you are you're thinking about the price we have to pay to make up for that. >> even if you get a big bump in sales prices, sales prices are up in real-time price increases. all this is taken away. >> do people know about this?

the capital gains in all of this? >> a lot of people don't know about it. the commercial market understands it and knnws about it because they're more sophisticated about what is going on here. >> would you guys do around the? you just hold off on asset sales? >> you wait until prices are increasing or you refinance. and you don't selloff this building. >> we waiting for? >> well, you can take cash out without having to pay taxes. >> summer hoping we don't know where we will get the money. real risk fiscal reform is not

happening yet. >> it's just not happening. >> in the business community we do have a voice within the administration. >> i agree with the goal. >> they there complete with this medicare tax and all these other tax. it is the beauty of a two-party system, hopefully there will be some checks and balances. >> there are checks and balances in the congress to get rid of this. so i'm hopeful that they will get greater reform. >> the adversarial process.

>> okay, not for a while. you know, i believe that all this should, who canbring the private sector experience. >> obviously you see what a process that is. well, yo have the private sector to do this. >> it is challenging. we have michael bloomberg for 12 years, he is an amazing manager and others at how to run a city like a business and new york city got through a very difficult time. so the private sector, those of us -- >> you are seeing more than that. neil: when you do wrong, run, will you announce it first with me? >> yes. neil: okay, thank you very much.

both parties instantly should make their decisions. espn, phone home. espn, phone home. sports everywhere, all over, all ♪

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high. espn is owned by the parent company disney. they're trying to figure out how to service their customers. they are navigating what is a new media environment without asking for a subsidy from government or anyone, they are actually thinking about their customers and obviously the responsible amount of time as well. >> two things come to mind, the place where your cable television industry took wing. i am really struck by how similar this is.. i am really struck by how similar this is. would have been a very established order of three big networks and that's the way it is, that's the way the world works, suddenly we are pitched into this wildly different environment they went from very

prictable to suddenly it is all over the map. mobile has become so important to to espn that they are saying that they will pay for it. it is a crazy time in the business. >> all right, guys. sales are down, allowing customers to leave big-ticket items with an option to buy them later on. jonathan, you see a little bit of risk in this? >> well, the risk is government. i mean, doctor but the economy goes south are you saying that he made leases to people who could not afford those washing machines nd plasma tvs. >> and it is acting as a non-bank wonder here. and government has tightened the restrictions, even going back a

number of years to the credit card applications. a lot of custer customers don't have credit or they are going to shoulder tt credit and leasing merchandise out he went for them come into went for customers, and i get will be a win for shareholders as well. >> government notwithstanding, everything goes coolly and you know what. would he think of this? >> were this is a story of things not working. this is the brick-and-mortar retail business, having real struggles, trying to figure out innovative ways to stay relevant. the story of the credit and financial system not providing what it needs to end the retailers having to respond and i think it's a story of the middle class not working right. where economic vitality is being drained that retailers have to find a way to pump new life into it. this is the downside of the economic revolution.

>> i always thought if you can't afford something, don't find someing. in the meantime, real estate prices are beginning to rebound. but is that goofor the younger generation. despite low interest rates and prices, all my nails know is that they just are not into it. would he think of that? >> well, it is hard to tell. the one thing that i will say is that everybody has to have a place to live than it does feel like the housing market, while it is certainly absorbing the body blows and taking the shots, it's something that you always find rebounding. we look back at the carter era interest rates and the early reagan era interest rates. it took a body blow d people manage to adapt. when you talk about kids needg a place to live, they just move in with her parents and they don't leave. >> i think that is a possibility. those demographics and those

economics will clearly play into the next just as they did in the past. >> well, i think they are smarter this time round. they saw the danger to your point of buy more stock, buy more anything than you can afford. this time they are actually being a little bit smarter about it. government is manipulating interest rates so low that we have had 30 years of this incredible oil market. i think that smart young people want to walk in those raids just as they have in the past week. neil: thank you guys very much. we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone

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neil: maybe you don't like it, maybe you're taking things personally. >> but they are taking away his@ deal. they should've done it themselves. >> they could have done it themselves. and i think it's too late. i really think a new management team would make this deal a lot more prfitable. >> this is both business and now it is personal. telling you a short time ago that this is something that is not quitting and we wonder how michael dell and hisohorts could dismiss it so easily. maybe it is personal. would he make of this? >> is essentially saying that he sees value in he told you

exactly where the value is in jail. he talks about an enterprise software business. he also said here's what his plan is. he would break it up and sell it to microsoft or hewlett-packard. we have seen this in the past with time warner he got in a fight there, and the other story is motorola in 2007, but you should basically be more about the patent business.

>> he doesn't have to stick around to make a lot of mon. >> that is right. how much is in this for the long term. >> they backed out of that, yahoo fight -- he does get in and out. when i heard your interview with him, i immediately thought to my elf that he is in this for the long term. he wants to keep that publicly traded. he thinks there is value there. a couple of months ago he did ha $15 a share. and that is after blackstone backed off because the news came out that business is eroding. >> he would walk away.

>> neither is the other team. i think the name of the game is here. they don't want them to be private,. >> you know that you could make a lot more money, no matter how much the personal issues are involved here. >> there are 16% over the board. >> out of 60% that is going to make a lot of money make a lot of money. >> yes. that is the thing.

they can't even do what they did he threaten to say that i am going to put this against you and wipe out your whole record. he said he has targeted. again, he is telling you exactly what he sees and anything else that goes with it. neil: okay, thank you very much. it is so smart that it is scary. okay, we have heard it all from the president. the health care love will save money and save lives. but you won't believe what it's going to do now, it will

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>> i had a friend that had a bad marriage just so she could have health insurance. we hope that this results in less bad marriages. neil: a democratic lawmaker says that the health care law ill be good for marriages because it won't force you into the wrong one. in other words, i'm going to hook up with this dude because he or she has health care and i don't. have any of you actuallyone that? >> anyway, are you buying any of that? to gina, what do you make of her argument?

>> what she was talking about with your friends, but this bill has done to families, what this administration has done for families, you can never say that anything this administration is pushing out, it's strengthening the ties. >> what she is saying is that it will strengthen the proper relationship and not the improper ones. >> essentially this reminds me of welfare. it destroyed this, just the idea that people couldn't get

married. people came to the house to check up on you. it is saying that it is okay because you have obamacare taking care rbels are at of course,. >> there are fewer bad marriages that are out there. >> this talks about how we are. >> it disappoints me about the congress and you ar really perverting what the subject matter is. i had no idea this was going to prevent people from choosing this because they want access to

insurance. the important thing is that we e helping more americans get insurance. >> obviously there is a connection. >> i have seen the movie. i think we know a lot more about this. >> i can tell you the number one thing that breaks down marriages is financial. >> the health care law now means that you don't have to do that kind of thing. >> opinions are going up. the costs are going up on middle-class family. we know that this is hurting real working families and young people who don't have access to

medical savings accounts ar all kinds of impacts that are very unhealthy. >> regardless of race or backgrounds or not that's right. >> i'm just thinking from a personal point of view. not theoretically not on paper. and i'm telling you. neil: just to get the benefit. >> you're going to get all the benefits that you could've gotten in the manage. and it chips away the notion of the foundation of being married. >> this isn't about welfare. it's about insurance. neil: is a glorified welfare? >> drying from what i know, because we have discussed this many times, many people want a single-payer plan. but that is not what we went with her head we have a plan that is getting more people insurance. it could turn into something

like that, but that's not how it is envisioned right now. this is about 80 people who would've gone to the emergency room or in some circumstance, would've gotten married to someone they don't love. you don't have to do that. >> if you look at a teenage girl, let's say she turns up pregnant. she started her family. if you look at security and all the measures out there for the elderly, if they have it build relationship with their child, well, the government will take care of them. >> we are a generous country and i don't think anyone is upset he

. >> ali are saying is that we can't use it as a pickup line >>. >> tom: just when hillary clinton was safe to go back in the water now comes the invented truth of benghazi. she previously testified and she said she was responsible for all that went wrong but now we know details and there were lies and a cover-up. we are talking about how much will this hurt hillary's chances right here and right now. >> tom: thanks for joining us. here at the top of the stack. is hillary clinton's star crossed. she was the undisputable presidential nominee for the democrats until a young senator came along named barack obama.