neil: forget benghazi nothing scares americans more than the irs, that other threa from over there, and what officials here knew, and when they whether or not you it is one thi. unleashing the force to unwitting public is there are thing, i am neil cavuto, apology not accepted, many conservative groups still mad, demanding committee hearings and more, a scandal that seems almost nixonian. the irs admitting it targeted right wing groups for amounted to nothing less than harassment. this is not the case of a few

irs agents "going rogue," this is the case of irs getting orders to go after republican or republican-leaning groups, but the question is, who gave those orders, and how high up did they go. for now obama administration says they are inappropriate. you know thing are bad when mainstream media is not buyg it, that tells me between benghazi and this, the white house has the makings of a mess. self-motivated, and now self-detonated, we look at far reaching implication of this. of what it says about whether irs can be trusted. to whether the add mone adminiss stressing on consititutional law. to market fallout if this gets worse could and legal battles to come. now let's say, a scandal ripe for investigation, and republicans not wasting a

moment, promising more than a few of their own, with me republican congressman from pennsylvania mike kelly, who serves on house ways, and means committee, how bad do you think it gets? >> well you know, we don't know how bad. but this is a pandora's box, as it gets more revealing we're seeing an administration that almost has blind ambition, we talk about things before. but when you look at irs, and you are given the directives, and you know it is wrong, and do you it this was revealed in 2011 we're. this is something that shakes the faith that we have in our government, and trust we have. you don't want to mess with that foundation, this administration has done, that again, i say, like blind ambition, it does not matter what it tak we're going to get it done, but this is so chilling, something that

american people, this is not a republican agenda or american agenda this is say -- >> mainstream media still by and large covers for president and white house, but i tnk will change a lot of that indicating that justice department had been targeting a number of ap phone reporters collecting of their phone records, called in and out of their offices. and to findut when they were getting when it wws -- process of gathering news on top stories, now, that cuts to their core, and i tnk gets their attention, what do you think? >> absolutely. you know old story, it depends who whose bull is getting gored. it was all right before, i do not accept it for one minute. american public shoul not what is scarier mainstream media has stood back and watched this

happen, thank goodness for fox, and benghazi this irs, escapade this is so chilling. this goes far deeper than i think anyone would have expected now this group who thought of themselves as sacred cows they findut they are being looked at different. people are becoming more alert, and finding out maybe eeror has no clothes, it is our duty in congress, this is an obligation, we have to the american people, to get to the gm of bottom of this agree there is not an agency that strikes fear in hearts of too many more americans than the i irs. 70,000 something pages, ty are targeting groups, they targeted it them on purpose. somebody did not push the wrong button, this was an effort to go about after these folks, now

justst the question comes, not just conservative groups we're seeing others come forward, i hope other people are emboldened to come forward, do what they know to be right. right. neil: it cuts the mainstream media to the core, when their phoneecords and logs and coverage of governmentatters, we ask the question now, that we asked congressmen, did barack obama have his own enemies list? the shear mention in media years ago that richard nixon kept tabs on those who did not like them, innighted a media -- ignited a media theory, but not so much today. whether irs or looking at conservative group or justice department, targeng ap reporters. something is foul here,

gretchen, is a privacy advate. we have tea party katrina pearson. gretchen let's talk about how big it is, the al reporting is just the latest news, talking. a lot of pressure put on folks, who might not take kindly to that. and don't. >> right now you have the president, who has a major crisis happening, everything from benghazi to irs, now associated press, he has a credibility problem that is erupting, this abusiveower cannot become status quo. this reinforces reasonhy we need the watch dog organizations, they were targets groups with government or government spending or wantso make america's better place, they targeted these people, this reinforces a need for those groups. neil: karina, this latest development, on ap reporters,

nothing, nothing getting reporters in mainstream media attention like going after me too! we could deal can be right wing groups. and tea party, and deal with you lying about any of the above, but when you go after u that is a whole another matter, could it be a turning point? >> we have always discussed this in beginning of tea party movement, media will issue will become a target. they are per over everything, i have been on your show several times trying to warn the american people what is going on with ts obama administration, how many scandals does it take, to let american people know our country is headed dn a very dangerous path. neil: this does call into question, who and what you can believe. so that is not a great defense.

the other is, old chicago politics style of keeping your enemies on watch. that is where it gets scary, no? >> right now i think there will be a big breach in this tha trut that we have wh the governme, government does not have a great approval rating to begin work congress with barely any approval. you will see, president obama's numbers probably go down because of this you will see the trust in government we should have, we should be able to trust our government, and to do them to 2 the right thing, you are going to have a lot of americans questioning that, as this story evolves i think we'll learn more and i think you will see this become a real issue to be play into 2014 election. neil: katrina, do you think this extends like watergate, a drip, drip of information. i remember those hearings

started argument was this is a left wing cabal. the same said inverse now. but when thissi extendingive degree it has. targeting reporters is much bigger is it not? >> well, absolutely, much bigger, but interesting thing, i brought our irs return from the dallas tapper tar tea party datk 20, we still do not have our status, but interesting is the timing, leaked out friday on the cusp of this benghazi discussion, is there another conspiracy to cover-up the cover-up? who knows what is going on, it is very important we do not refocus on the shiny object in the room, but make sure that the benghazi investition is fully investigated. neil: thank you, very much. whit house having trouble getting a handle on the

scandals, they don't end with benghazi and irs, and ap reporters, the president's health care fix is broken, and now may could breaking the law. eaking out another fix? listen up, you will be paying with the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewas for his all business take theseags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjors small busiss earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve limited reward here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choo double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button?

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neil: out of dough, panhandling for more. so far h&r block, and robin wood undation are jumping to donate. they are wondering if it is legal, former mississippi governor barber said, does not pass the mell test, what do you make of this? >> well, we have a law called antideficiency act that ss if an ainistration tries to raise private money to pay for a government activity, that congress has refused to

appropriate the money for, that is a violation of the law. because the power to a prepiate a okay appropriate moneests with congress. you may remember iran contr was about this matter whether north was getting private money to support policy that congress refused to support. i'm a recovery lawyer. i don't want to alike -- >> you raise a good point, media was all a pickle over that. not so much jumping on this, yet. but, it does call in to question the timing of this. now, we're going to have a statement i think from health and human services saying, effectively, we have always worked with outside groups, and efforts ramping up or one more part of work, there is a special

second that allows secretary to support and to encourage others to support nonprofit working to provide health information. ing iin other words nothing illl is going on, what say you? >> we cannot just the justice department to investigate this, i think you will see a serious investigation by congress. and i am not going to rejudge it. kathleen sebelius has the write trightto be presumed innocent ul proven otherwise but there must be a serious investigation, i guarantee there will be, here is an act that monkeyed with rules to get it passed not a vote to spare in senate. and now we have ts that looks s bad, smelling bad, feels bad, there ought to be and will be, a

intense investigation about this. and but i do think it is important. i thought senattr alexander who broke the story was prudence to not say this is a crime. he said it may be a violation. i think that is position we ought to take. neil: between this, and the irs, allegations, of going after groups, that not friendly to the administration, and separate story wre justice department might have targeted a number of ap reporters, i'm not saying nixonian by proportions but it is harkening back to watergate-like. if even's fraction of this is true. >> well at least in nixon administration, using word patriotic did not put you on the enemy's list. yo were here, in obama administration if you use the word patriot you are suspect. you are under suspici of being

subversive. president today rightly came out said this was terrible, i hope we'll learn more about what actually happene but i hope that is going to be the administration's true feelings about this because, this is really scarey to the average american, that your government, sics the irs on you because you are the political enemy. neil: irs will have a pivotal role inhis health care. >> the enforcer ishe irs, they have hired thousands of new agents to enforce this. but i will tell you, the rule of law is essential to american

exceptionalism, and american people, do not like the irs being used for political purposes. by republicans or democrats. nixon was accused of it. th republicans were upset about it too. neil: you are right about that. governor, always a pleasure thank you. >> thank you, neil. neil: well, when states say no to jobs folks need, we drill down to see if the state politicians making thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it.

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neil: well forget keystone this will get you fracking fuming. i had to practice that washington putting kibosh on new drilling in california, epa, aaong others need more time to assess the matter. while in illinois they are blocking fracking will state

politicians assess the iact. any timoue they are assessi, i woulded to tell my parents i'm assessing my grade, they know you don't have a clue. impact now is no jobs, that is one thing this economy needs. that is being delayed more. >> it is, and it is sad, if is happening in -- it is happening in n york with governor welcomcuomo,up state new york hl gas resources, that is better than the paying jobs, pennsylvania a hundred thousand jobs due to fracking. and natural gas. neil: would there be more than that if all of lands were opened up or drilling were allowed and fracking? >> sure. and there have been over a million wells fracked over the last 60 years, how many reported actual incidents are there a

darn few. neil: obama administration argument and environmentalists ists argument is all you need one bad like bp gulf spill, you say. >> like saying some people get killed i automobile crashes, you ought to ban automobiles. neil: don't throw logic back at me. >> the fact there will be an oh, occasial incident in any industrial process is the way it is. i make the analogy to cars, why would you ban cars just because someone has a correct up? you know another thinghat happened when you have tough political decisions like this, say you are a left wing politician. >> me? neil: let's say you could argue assessing gives y time to cover both sides, keystone comes to mind, have not made a decision, you are placating your environmentalist groups that don't want you to bend on this and at the same time, you are

tryi to keep your union frnds happy by saying, hey we might make a decision to your like figure you hang in there. we're trying to find a way around it. >> delaying the decision is making a decision. every day that we don't have mo fracking, we import more oil, more natur gas from countries that are not our friends, every day that happens, we don't have the jobs we would have had. every day thatt happens, we don't have the geopolitical that would have if we were more energy self-sufficient. every day, you holdi back chemical industry, plastics industry, fertilizer industry. neil: i don't kw whether you have heard obama administration does not flip overall of those above. >> i bli over it. neil: do yo think that is the problem? democrats particularly in senate want tovoid to anything to

help oil industry o natural gas industrior frackers, the bottom line is they might provide jobs they are not the kind of jobs these guys like, which are greens, and batteries and solar. >> let's talk about the green, sometimes i think that greenies think electricity lives in the wall of your house. and all it needs is a plug in order to liberate it. you have to combust something to make electricity. wind and solar are intertt intermittent they can never be the base power load, leave aside the fact they are wildlly expensive. people would go with natural gas, with a be load, replacing coal, no questio it is less pollutive than coal, and use renewables for when they are

availabl that is a reason ale way to glend down the cost -- reasonable way to broaden down thblend down thecost but keep t. neil: just your thoughts on the scandals in administration right now with benghazi, and irs, and reporters, what is going on? >> well, i'm glad onne hand to say they are not just picking to wall street they are being more universal. neil: fair and balanced if you will. >> in picking on. but notion that word patriot is a code word for being a subversive is news to me. that is a really scary thing to have the ide that enemy's list. neil: yeah. and we should say, just wilbur's point what triggered a lot of irs stuff, any group with name patriot in the name is originally how it started, it is weird, wilbur ross thank you

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and associates' customer service award 4x in a rorow. in the end, there are countless reasons. but one choice. >> my housing plan has alrdy helped more than 2 million people refinance their mortgages. neil: he is the president he should take credit for housing %-taking blame if it were awful,

but he says rescues and mortgage rewrites are a big reason why and he's more to keep going, does that beg the credibility thing? to robert wolf on whether it makes sense. >> thank you, i think we should allow these people to refinance. if they are playing by the rules, even if there are mortgage is underwater. because, it is good for the country. >> a frack of them -- a fraction of them make good on it, it pushes them further to same old condition. >> they are on the balance sheet right now, credit risk is already there for fannie and freddie, the chances of these being paid off because interest rates will be at a lower level is higher percentage then paid identify at higher level. -- paid identify at off at a h.

neil: a lot are ineworks, they end up in being just as bad position, but numbers show 7 out of 10 of are not, maybe it is time to this, period. because it is just pro lodging the agony? >> those are two different questions one is refinancing, i think if you are current on refinancing you should get benefit of what fed haseen doing on lower mortgages,t does not help with an ease monetary policy, and these people, okay would help the direct economy do better, they are not really helping. neil: you can understand why general americans who have been keeping up say, how is he getting the benefit and i'm not. i'm not getting this same benefit. >> they should get the benefit, they are not underwater, for example is someone buys a new home they get benefit of low rate. if someone is in their home, but

just loan is under mortgage but they are current. why should we not give them a benefit of a lower rate. neil: what if they are not? >> that is different. if they are not current, game over, then -- >> think you could work magic, vee woul,you would say this is . >> at.where you are undwater and not current we need to start foreclosing these homes. >> switching gears. we were talking about scandals developing. between spying on al reporters with justice different, and irs going after the groups, a lot of stuff bubbling, what do you make of it? >> irs thing, i only know what i am reading, it seems any independent agency singles out any group is outrageous. neil: do you see any logic?

>> i don't know enough, okay, but it seems to be that you know, the irs may have kind of crossed the line on this one. okay. if y are singling out a group, unless of a sudden we saw huge increases of tax credits for certain types of groups they look at that, this is understandable. maybe. >> who would make thatall? there is a well the we don't know. is that something that could be a rogue irs agent, or higher up? by that i'm saying like way richard nixon had an enemy's list, i would call into a lot of things. >> i think have you millions of pele very looked at on their taxes at junior levels before this pyramid would begin, my guess someone saw, you know a group that started taking tax credits. i wld hope that it stayed a lower level. neil: do you think there is a

bigger credibility issue. maybe think that a lot of president supporters had is not real image it has been? >> i don't put -- i believe that president made a come today equall saying that this cannot be taken on anyway that this gets done. i think he would agree that independent agents have to kind of keep -- >> when head of irs says, more than a few months ago this was not going on either he is a liar or stupid. >> we'll find out one way or another how this came about, with respect to ap tng, i just read it, i don't understand you know, what is give someone the right to do this wiretapping and surveillance one way or the other, it has been happening for over a decade. so you know i think we need too figure out the fac here as well, my guess in coming days we will.

neil: i have chatted with you a number of times over the years, one thing you said, the economy, is improving. getting better. i'm thinkingn light of these potential scandals it might be the saving grace for president, nothing like environment 40 years ago this month and summer with watergate hearing. and an environment that was economically atrocious, good economy saved bill clinton, and reagan through iran contra, you make an argument if this good economy continues it could weather any problem for the president. >> certainly we're all glad tha@ the economy is doing well. we would like to see theic toke ic -- economy do better. we're not ringing the bell saying this is amazing but employment numbers are good, north of 175ish. neil: still 7.95% unmen unemplo.

>> still too hh. i am close to the president, i don't think these things touch him. >> you mention that. do you trust him? s. yes. neil: could you see him saying, directly or not, get the justice department on these guys? could you envision any of those nixonion qualities on this guy. >> no. neil: okay, robert, thank you. >> samsung blues for apple? when we come back. we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪

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just getting worse for apple's tim cook, samsung poised to over take apple as most profitable phone maker this is a matter of time, what do you make of the event of making more money on them than apple? >> well, samsung has done a great job, a bunch of new products be one has a bigger screen than iphone. they have de a great job, competition is good for industry. but as they get over taken by msung, apple will come out with a new iphone, like an iphone 6 for example, i will be out there buying it. this is a horse race it should be fun to watch. neil: todd? >> i agree, competition is great, choices that samsung has on their android handset beating apple by and large, apple has

fallen with old ford model-t trap, you can get any color on your model-t has long as it is black. neil: like that one. game makers are getting into your home investing into games on go, td said that is why all entertainment is going, mobile, this would appear to vi end -- vin i didcality that deal. >> that is the way of the future mobile application if anyone has frnds with young children, you know once you get in the car you hand them the phone, and you have your kid entertain the whole time. most young people today have moved away fm land base internet at their home, from cable, and all -- their mobile devices on their hand-held androids, you can watch tv on

it, and plug in a wireless speakers and a project or that projects on to a small screen. you don't need internet at your home or phone at your home or cable as long as you have a mobile phone. neil: that too could be short-lived, ty? >> it is natural progression, we went from the pc to the laptop to the tablet then smartphone, then a gaming standpoint from pong on tv to pc to laptop to tablet now to the smartphone, this is a natural progression, downloads of digital content is the wave of the future, i think they are going the right direction. neil: and the craft beer makers, that want to get you blitzed, they are getting hammered. now 18 senators are looking to slash a tax on beer produced by

so-cal micro breweries, ty, saw a brouhaha ovee taxes, is or is not worth it. >> i'm in favor of any kind of tax cut. and if they could throw in repeal of regulation on the way, what i'm not in favor is favoritismn tax code, what about tv business? what about health care business? how about energy, oil and gas. if they have a fairer, simple lower corporate tax rate, and throw in regulation repeal, we would have an explosion of employment that is shot in the arm that our economy needs, if we need to start with micro breweries find with me. neil: start of something you could extend across board. i don't envision that, todd. >> i don't either. >> i'm for craft beers, i am for. neil: drinking them o letting them prosper. >> yes, and y. ben franklin, beer is proof that

god exists and loves us. i agree, if it is good enough for a craft beer company it is good enough for all. funny thing nobody tal about you want income tax rate, and policy rates to below enough, but you raise moment amount of revenue. neil: all right. >> that is key on taxes. neil: that is the key, the goal, the dream. >> they came, they met, they quit? let's say churchill-roosevelt, these guys are not. you hurt my feelings, todd. i did? when visa signature asked everybody what upgraded experiences really mattered... you suggested luxury car service instd of "strength training with patrick willis." come on todd! flap them chicken wings. [ grunts ] well, i travel a lot and umm...

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neil: well forget about budding scandals here, did the president and british prime minister just bail on dealing with far more pressing problems? an opportunity lost today that had nothing to do with irs or benghazi or spying on al ap reporters you argue they pass the baton on it. >> a term that a lot of people in europ are willing to talk out. we heard about that last couple years bthe sentiment that chged. a lot of people thinking way out of a mess in europ spending not cuts, and look at numbers, something needs to be done. neil: the fact that it was not on the agenda. they seem to be of the view, we didn't do aggressive cutting in united states we're doing okay,

you, should cool it on that, do do what we do because then you will look better? >> it may be one side of the argument. but we need to keep in mind what broughturope to this position is spending out of control. the way of spending more than they did ear in past, did get them to the point where they are, last double years the growth has not been there european commission came up with numbers revising growth rate down. it is not work, you may be correct. neil: off th as terty. >> and we saw problem in portugal, prime minister deali with unions trying to cut labor force that is not going well, sentiment is turning the other way. french did get the benefit of extending another year their gdp debt ratio.

neil: i look at them, we talked about it before. we look good-bye comparison, i -- we look good, by comparison beuse we're just taller dwarfs, is that only thing saving u.s. is we don't stink as much as they do? >> we look good compado europe, they do have problem, they have for some time. u.s. looks better if tha for tht reason but there is a lot good things happening. neil: what if the euro goes away. that just a mter of time. is that reality they are facin it. >> politicians do call the shots, they are elected for a certain period of time, somete it makes more sense to kick the can down the road. the view is more kick the can to

-- is that. that. neil: that will wh produce more violence? >> we will see what happens in germany, merkel is facing reelection -- >> what if the are repudiated? >> then more to go down path away from austerity to fiscal spending. neil: would the euro be in danger then? >> wheneve way you slice it it e euro is in danger. >> you but scandals here, taking the eye off the ball? >> there are to a certain degree, but issues for europe are still there. >> all right nick thank you very much and nick marcola. people forget there is a world going on or not going on over there. meanwhile, don't look now, time

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neil: get ready for what could be the summer bummer, not like the last big one 4 decades ago. it would go into fall. following winter, and spring and on. no mystery market tumbled through that then, what happens in this benghazi, irs, scandalized washington now? and fallout for your stocks and money. rob, what do you think? >> i brought a prop, i think it is important on the back of our

currency it says go god we trt, the word is trust. once you eradicate trust that american people have and business owners have with our federal government, everything stops, maybe make deferred decisions. they don't make decisions they need to run their business properly this is damaging. people should tnk long and hard about the things that are government is doing. neil: they are not sure how far that extends. and everything else. it does sort of bubble? >> we just had a blip up in consumer confidence, finally. we seemed that we were getting and budget deficits, oh, my god everyone can relax, get the economy go. then we have that wet blanket all over.

depending how deep and ugly it -ets it will abfe affect the consumer. making a decision. and it could have a negative effect. neil: malia, i think every time you have a potential of a scandal. economic backdrop has a lot to say whether the scandals do that president in. i think. bill clinton of saved in large part becauseethe economy everything doing so well. this predent mig be saved. by comparison it is doing bter than it was. richard nixon was not so fortunate. >> i think you bring up a good point with looking at nixon and lousy economy. that probabl had a lot to do with the lousy economy. i don't think that scandal in washington affects our markets that much, if it did, i am sure

we would not be as well off as we are, scandals in washington have been happening since washington, it is important we remember that what creates strong economies are jobs and government working with citizens to build its economy. >> what if people question that government,nd the trust -- that trust factor? what if people begin to question that. >> i think that country showed in 2008, that it wanted a new government, it didn't have trust for its current government. way americans have beeneeling about their government has been down in the dumbs for a while, i think it may have been bush win in 2000. neil: there you go. it took you three minutes to get to president bush. >> i think the way we feel about our government, our government should be taken more ssrious, it is,a shame how okay they are with our lack of trust for them.

neil: this could now go to other branches. >> let's not be blind, small and meadium size business owners are struggling, we process a billion dollars in other people's payroll, if people don't trust me to do the right job that will affect me, just because parts of the economy are doing well has nothing to do with small businessconomic engin that is fall terring. i know that job are getting created we need 300,000 jobs on a monthly bases to g to our post recession -- >> you know, ias thinking about, it is the irs that is goin to have you know a powerful role in this whole administration of health care law. thousands of agents hired. now thi scandal brewing they were targeting conservative groups. we don't know where they were

gets the orders, but that gives folks' pause. >> and every working american, you have to file as part of your tax return in -- more data gets respected to irs, americans do not trust the easin irs as it i. neil: i love the irs, keep doing that great job. malia, do you get a sense this does question, calling into question government entities that are going to have a lot more control in the months and years ahead. whether health care, and irs or whether it isly galty of all of the -- legality of all of the above, now they are brought up and you know, out right scandals. >> for me, i think for a lot, this is not first time we heard

about stories of justice department following -- or reporters -- but we had a lot of that going on in 60s, and '70s and 80s. i think that government has to beery transparent. i know that predent talked about that in the beginning of his administration, it is something he should revisit. we know that naacp were targeted and groups on left targeted in 2004 election. neil: you are right, there is a history, but rob euare right. >> neil, that is what we need to a-- >> understood, but rob, stop, stop. >> rob when you go after reporters, now you have got a problem mr. president. now that changes the game because media that i think with

all respect for malia, i think it has given - i think that changes. >> i think it will change, you think about just black eye that will give this president a his administration. does he not realize those individuals have pow target him elected or not, wha media says is a haj huge impact if they goa bad way they will set up the eltion process. neil: then what happens? market? >> this. >> a fact we had no growth in the fourth quarter of 2012, look at fiscal cliff and sequester and politics and elections people stop spending money. in this country, somebody does not have a job, zero growth in fourth quarter, not very impresve in first. neil: bottom line, i want to thank you all. whether you are left or right, as all folks pointed out, any

time there ising should huge in something hume like this, it does not help the economy or markets, get ready forr time because of the breaking news for facebook, but more tomorrow, stay tune. melissa: i'm melissa francis, and here is who is made money today. investors, a top competitor to bloomberg lp with bloomberg stuck in the spying scandal, compton rolls out the welcome mat saying they never engaged in similar activities, thompson stock up more than 1% since the news broke friday. also making money, netflix and cofounder ceo, climbed more tha 5%, closing short of a 52-week high, a little more than 1348 -- 1 million shares of netflix, nice job, well done. losing money today, justin eber, struck