neil: a gener who wanted out of the benghazialking points. and now out to make a point, two of latest revelation that prove this white house has a credibility problem. now it has a second term problem, an agenda on ice, likely more players who could get iced. welcome i am neilavuto. when an these common thoughtful marco rubio talks about a culture of corruption and intimidation, you know you have problems for the administration, so ugly,o distorted so fast, they call into question anyone cooperating with this ite house on anything. senator rubio was their best

hope at immigration reform, but now he is backing away, just the latest. growing signs that barack obama is losing friends on both sides of the aisle, faster than he knows, rich with more. >> reporter: much of the president's legislative strategy has been an appeal to voters, more the president is distracted the less he can lobby voters, america skeptical that american become about president, and his priorities, that strategy has mostly failed to cnge any minds in congress, the president's agendas on thin ice, almost like a week ago, president has about same chance of getting tax increases on wealthy and certain boosts in federal spending as he did about a week ago, which is about none. if investigators find a white

house influence on just is department or irs on this situation that could hurt democrat chances of taking house or holding senate next year's midterms, they can be referendums on the president. wilhave a impact on his agenda, if you lose law make freres both side, too -- makers from both sides, that farm offensive, that could become problematic, that seemed like an area where there could be a bipartisan achievement to get something done. president as leader it could be probletic. neil: rich edison thank you. >> tomorrow we might get an indication it all hits fan, house, ws and means committee holding a hearing into this mess. and kansas senator pat roberts sits on that commiee with a

lot of queions and consents, what do you want to know? >> i want to know why they lied to me, i want to know why i have a letter in my hand i senne clear back in july, i did not get a respond until 9/11 of all dates, i asked specifically, was there any targeting, steve miller. the man who president asked jack lew to ask him to resign, he i still there he did not fire him. i asked him, was there and specific targeting, he said no, i have the letter, is there anybody in this administration that will come clean. that is just not you want we're not getting answers. neil: we have gotten slightly different stories from jay carney a the president as to

when the president knew about the inspector general's report. i'm wondering if this is the fit of mmny inconsistenties? what do you hope to get out of the hearing beyond who knew what and when. >> we'll ask those specific questions, there is a criminal preeding or investigation over there with the attorney general. i don't know if i really have that much trust with t attorney general. you have a situation where jay carney not president said we have a current investigation w can'tomment bout that, come on, these are questions you could pretty well answer. neil: ty have already launch aid criminal investigation, when you are launching a criminal investigation, leaving aside ap reporter thing, it is approach that severity of magnide to warrant more than your usual

reassessment. what do you think is going on? >> that is his quote, mr. carney one person's view of what actions were taken or individual did is not enough for us to say something concretely happened that was inappropriate. that is not a tepid response, that is no response, that led to what headline said president fired steve miller, he did not fire him. he asked jack lew to ask him to resgn, but he is still here. that is a good thing, i don't know what haze status. is since he has resigned, is he ill acting i don't know. we'll ask him the tough questions, and then we'll go from tre. is is the politics of intimidation. if you are a whistle-blower on benghazi, you are intimidated, if you are a taxpayer that said byhe way i'm in favor of u.s. construction, a patriot or another key word, all of a

sudden, your tes are auded. american people get this, they get it strong, they fear the irs, now they have real reason to fear it don't mention patri or constitution or less government on your show, it is going to be hard for you, i'm just warning you. neil: any combination raises eyebrows, thank you, sir. >> you bet. neil: i wan you to look at this, in markets worried about a watergate summer bummer, stocks are pretty much on a roll despite today's downdraft. justice department revelations, and irs revelations, so many revelations you wonder why the markets are not more roiled. they are not. marknows is ising there more gog on. >> i don't think that politics

is affected by -- the markets yet, president was very quick to see this is wrong. and all these he was asked a spes yospecific question about f anybody in white house was involved he said, i don't know anything about it sidestepped it. ybe too soon to call it irsgate, you wonder if that is where we're headed. but for now market are happy only game in town is the fed, fed adding liquidity, question this is lurki in background is about new lower deficit estiting the mean that fed will have a hard time committing itself to all ofhe liquidity it has been pumping into the market, even though the economy is not looking great, one day it looks great. neil: reliable adult in the room providing a lot of goodies, as long as that is there it could weather the other stuff. >> so long as security purchases

are not so big t distort the markets eif they do, then that is a problem. neil: is there a case they are distorted anyway. >> i'm talking about normal market functioning in narrower way. but, i am find of concerned about the size of the fed balance sheet. neil: another argument to -- a friend of mine works in financial community, he said, in a way it uld be good news, anything that stymies obama spending agea or slows healthcare, he termed albatross, all to the good, in a flip way. >> if you are post-obama anything that gives him a problem is good for you, i would rather we focus on the issues. i'm concerned about politicians lying about bad statel security. neil: not doingnything about it. >> we still need to do, that and

lower before at this times may put -- lower before at this ti t off more. neil: thebo numbers game them a backbone pass, right, now you add scandalshe are not going to be addressed. >> tax revenue, this year, are going above historic normshere is really no ground for president to say i'm going to take away tax breaks, it is time to start cutting spending and set priorities, but we spend we get a new program, we never cut. it just gets lumped up, and inefciencies are never taken out, you have tolectric at revenues as -- look at revenues as sharee of gdp and say we have do something about that. neil: we're more different trammed now. >> we are. >> robert brusca thank youery much. enjoy the markets now, if david stocstockton is right, there ise

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>> you have the stock market in a mania, high on some kind of fed month fare crack cocaine. that is the stock market, you have washingtonisacted with scandals, a couple years are burned up. we are adding to the national debt. neil: so many scandals so little time, leaving no time for washington to address our budget or pending, but choosing to focus on unexpected good news on revenues coming in. you heard rald reagan'sudget director boaning the fac we're taking our eye off this could panding debing -- expandi.

>> i have to agree to some extent. i would not say that scandals are distracon or i'm not trying to down play them, but, we have be paying equal attention to national debt, and out of control spending that is going on in the country, as we are to the sndals, gernment accountability office came out with their annual auditf federal government this year, and they said that the fiscal th we're on is unsustainable, it is an immediate threat right now, interest payments alone in my lifetime will be the driver of our national debt, we have president saying we don't have a spinning problem, we have a revenue problem or a health care problem. and to me that is a scandal. neil: i will say, this. one thing that concerns me is that washington cannot multitask. if you want to have hearings,

have at it, therere a lot of questions, but we do have this debt, we do have even though news is improving on the short-term deficit. u know, maybe something about our times we could celebrate $682 billion deficit, i'm saying, i think weadock this bu we are forgetting about this, that worries me. >> i think w should celebrate a little bit to extent we had a record peacetime deficit 2009, over 25% of gdp through tremendous effort of public engaged on the spending issue like i've never seen before. it wl be around 22%. >> do you think our eye will be off the ball now? >> fortunately the big spending fight is not going to be in the summer, but it will be in the fall. theebt seatinget get --

ceiling will get rolled together, we have a big fight over this in september, i think that scandals may inform that debate in a productive way, they show there a lack theontrol wi that out of control big government, even david axelrod said it is too vast for white house to know what is going on. when the government is too vast for the white house to know what is going on i hope they down size it. neil: that worries me when anyone in the white house doesn't know whattis going on, that gets to be a theme of late. so, there is a sense out there, that at the least, this stymie's the president's agenda to some, not all of the financial community who are loath to gove, that is a good thing , what do you think of that? this hurts president's pending agenda and will help the economy as a result.

>> i think all of these grandstanding hearings and vote on repeeling obamacare, it all a different trachfrom focus -- differendistraction from focusse laser beam on the economy. but, looking at the scandal, as a whole, you know what is really happening here circumstance as you said, washington cannot multitask, and i am worried we're taking our eye off of the economy, just when the recovery is starting to pick up, there are still millions of americans that are hurting and need washington to focus on them. neil: i think you can do everything, that gets back to the point that washington cannot, let's say, like a scandal. they have multiple hearings, i and read that it will be the case weather, irs or benghazi or

justice deputy after reporters, or whether the hhswent too far with the company pay for publicizing health care law, it could be mess, and that is like, watergate summer-like, do you agree? >> i do. i think that washington can't multitask, but maybe president obama is almost relieved he does not have to talk about the economy right now, he can try to cover-up what is happening in the white house right now it is takingocus off one happening in the economy, to be hones-- -- >> he has been liking what has been happening to the economy. >> but, the economy is not doing much better, people still are leaving, workforce, while we can say that unemployment rate has dropped it is because tre are thousands of people still leaving the workforce, every month, tha we can point to. and that does not point to an economy that is starting to

thri. neil: phil, a read onhere this es. do you think these are going to be sort of obsessing points good or bad for the summer? >> yeah, i do, i think they will be where they have been front and center, and even the hhs scandal with secretary sebelius calling ceos for cash that off and the radar. i think they will continue to dominate, i think it will is important tt people who think like i do we need to government government spending under control, that should remain focus, use this as a window on the problem of big government rather than making it about specif, personalities and sensational. neil: okay, we'll have you back. this just in, so far. just two guys, fired as a result of the mountain scandals, we're told, fired. irs commiioner on his way.

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neil: only an acting irs commissioner and one of his deputies, only so-called victims thus far. steve miller who was already headed out is one of two guys out, randy thinks he knows why. why? >> well, i if a tree fls and everyone is there to hear it, what happens in in has been an explosion, now government will sit back, let everyone come to them, you hear sounds of pattering feet, people are going

to lawyers, what is my exposure, what is my criminal exposure, i better not talk to any irs, look at martha stewart that is a felony. civil rights violation, crimes, people can go to jail, people are lawyers up, people will sit and see, w is going to come to me, who will help me, lineup over here, and those who are not coming to help me, maybe get prosecuted, lineup over there. neil heading up this oversight. on top of acting commissioner, coincidence. >> nothing is ever a coincidence, you are talking about the brightest of the bright, they kw full well. there is a problem, you lawyer up, you talk about options and issues, whatever we do in internal investigaon, we represent a company, we sit

back, like, michae mike said. >> we town out in a lot of @%nghazi memos, wait, i did try to warn, i did try t get word out, i don't like this being white washed, there must be the eqvalent o that a irs, maybe no we're not just targets folks, i tried to warn this is a bad idea, whatever the original rpose it veered into a politicalit game. >> if youo enough, you get out of the way of the bus, if you don't do enough, and say i tried, though are the ones with tire tras on their back. people will look to make deals. neil: do you think that is happening now? >> tt is happening as we speak, first step people lawyer up, they say, what ii my exposure? if i have exposure, and a

problem, can you make me a deal? i don't want to go to jai i don't want to be ruined. then people who have information, now they havent parlay that information, can i avoid exposure, can i government as a whistle-blower? can i make money outf this, people are meeting with their lawyers trying to figure out why they sit on the line, what line that i want to get othe lawyers reach out to government, say, okay, let's play. neil: but what if its in the end, a intramural fight, zel zel out rogue ages. >> i would respectfully submit that the e has been broken, i don't know you could put it back

in, about there still has to be face saving down the road, 6 months from now, a year from now, because you know the next elect this will be an issue, the smart lawyers in the world, anybody can tell you what is wrong, smart ones tell how to avoid the problem, deal with it before it becomes a problem. even if justin personal it has to be addressed -- internal it still has to be addressed, one of these days it will be messy. neil: you are a great lawyer, but i notice in hearings when they start they are never expected to go anywhere, like watergate -- then, the inconsistency in witness' testimonies and material. so surprises happe is it the intent of hearings to get as many witnesses as possible to show overlap to show

incontins stanes a race concerns that way? >> i think hrings serve tolis -o different goals, as humanbies we protest too much we talk too. as crimina dense lawyer we say shut up, you request only talk yourself -- you can only talk yourself into trouble. hearin do, that they have a deterrent effect. you want to be next moron in this chair? at some level, it is supposed to, peas us a citizens, look, the government is doing something, we're on top of it, don't worry, i'm in control! but we're not. neil: you think they are wheeling and dealing as we speak? >> listen, they are out there,

they are meeting they are rushing they are on cell phones, deals areeing cut as we speak. neil: i can't hear anything just now. >> i hear it all. neil: randy, the best, amazing, anyway. forget tea partiers and whether they sue the irs, did you hear about national organization of marriage that is suing the it as simples this. at bny mellon, our business is invtments. managing them, moving them, making them work. we oversee 20% of the world's financial assets. and that gives us scale d insight no one else has. investment management combined with investment servicing. bringing the power of investnts to people's lives. invested in the world. bny mellon.

>> here is another situation at the very least, clearly, their

allegation here. that had, fix of chilling speech of a political organization. that happened to be on wrong side of the current administration. neil: top set of republicans, that we know. but it goes way beyond the kind of groups you think of. national organization of marriage, is suing tax giants. not for singling it out, but for getting too much information on the organization out. john ease man is with the organization, and joining me to eplain. john, spell it out for me. what are youuing over. >> wl, very simple. in march 2012 our confidential tax returns were disclosed to ourolitical opponent, human

rights campaign, we know that. the pdf document had redactions on if and our computer technician unlayered it, it it d internal irs marks on it. neil: that is someone from within irs leaking this out into hands of folks to do deliberate embarrassment and harm to you. >> we shod point out, reas that human rights campaign and others' our list they can post them on web site, harass, and intimidate them, and scare them from donating to cause of traditional marriage. neil: by the way, i rememberhe 8 wealthy individuals that gave money to romney campaign last year, tgeted and broadca for world to see, several gting audi from hell, a lot of them

paying big money to have their name cleared, this would reek of intimidaon? >> it does. and i think it is no accident that head of han heating campaign at the time was also -- human rights cpaign at the time was serving national co-chair for the obama reelect campaign this federal statute that protects your pry vate income tax returns, it is a felony fornyone in irs to disclose that information we are a nonprofit, we do have a portion that are made public, but there are portions of tax rerns that list of donors, that are as private as your individual tax return. and like i said, this is a felony, it is goes back to watergate. back in early 197s this is one of charges of impeechment that was already drown up again president nixon before he was forced to resign, and congress in 1976 changed the disclose ear pinaly froyeradisclosure pen pea

misdemeanor to a felony. neil: justice department thinks this warns criminal investigation. which begs this question for y you. we asked for an investigation a year ago, department of the justice said it is up to inspector general at treasury, we never got response. as they are obligated to do. we sought 3 different times with freedom of information act request, status of the investigation, and their latest response, well very identity of perpetrate or, since he is a taxpayer is itself protected from the law against disclosure

heiolated. it. neil: all right, john thank you. keep us posted on this. john eastman. consider this, this was not an organization that had tea or liberty or patriot in its name this goes beyond the others, national organization of marriage. nothing that would have like a telltale trigg to warra those who are opposed to it to target it. that is why so many of beginning to thinks is much bigger than mere conservative groups or tea party groups, or just a few that might not be within the administration's line of thinking, this is much wider, some having nothing to do with what was oginally supposed to target. that is why this is a big dial. this information was leaked from within irs, and given to folks with no good intentions. all right.

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>> the explosion and fire, and resulting oil spill in gulf of mexico never should have happened, i ameeply sorry it di neil: tony is back, this time heading up commodities temporarily chairman. he leads off our biz blitz. scott, tony, is back. what do youhink

>> it is amazing, maybe glen corps wants its life back. now you pull all gold and silver and oil and natural gas, it falls in place. he was due for a comeback, it is great for him, i don't know if it will help the company. he made a ton of gas -- not just only onene we'll seeehow he handles this. neil: despite his obvious failure at bp, and handling that mess. people forget all victories prior. but, you know smart move? kimberly, what do you think? >> only thing is, everybody getting a second chance, we'll see, te will tell, but, loose lips sink ships, leadership arts from the top down, let's see what happens, i don't have a

lot of faith in him. neil: we'll see. issue two. up again walmart retailer sales slowing, now management is warning, they are not looking good, scott, are worried? >> well a little bit. this is a curious one to me because, walmart is the big discount retailer, if you are out there and a consumer and loing for deals, now that wee or taxpay roll cut holiday, you are lookingor chea stuff, walmart seems to come to mind. but, as we've seen, walmart is really complained about the impact of the tax payroll tax going away, it is interesting, it shows how bumpy the retail space is, and how fickle the consumer c be. neil: i don't see same impact from dollar store and others with lower price point than walmart if i missing somhing? >> walmart is the 800-pound

gorilla in the room, that accots for 8% of so, you know people look to is tr at is -- a bellwether. and just week in people are not get their tax returns back they are not spending those people are still trying to recover from the last couple years, let's wait, and see what happens in q2. to see where they are going, but i'm not too concerned about walmart, they will be slow and steady that continues the race. neil: and issue three, jcpny, a lot of pennies numbers out after the bell,imberly, it will come back? >> i don't know. i got to tell you, my mom used to shop at j.c. penneys, that is why i got my school clothes,

this loyalty runs long and deep, but people don't like change. there was a lot of change, and ron johnson came in took the model and threw it out, and said here is the new change, earnings per share down a buck 31, did not set well with consumers, bottom line in business, youre supposed to know your client, know your consumer, they have missed park. whethe mike will be able to turn that right now, i don't knoww it will be have to be a rabbit out of a hat to change j.c. penney. il: sometimes i think a hot commodity maker, you could be afforded a misstep but big box stores, they are like dinosaurs, oncwon wound they are dead. >> they becom stink. we heard best news all year f jc penny frony fm that means soe

cool kids are still wearing them. >> not now. lou: scratch. >> j.c. penney, i don't know they know who their customers are, they have ge through so much rebrands. how do they know what products to carry. neil: a good point. i remember j.c. penney as a kid with lamps. thank you both very much. >> now we know general petraeus had his doubts e-mail out has had his doubts e-mail out has former different under secretary you hurt my feelings, todd. i did? when visa signature asked everybody what upgraded experiences really mattered... you suggested luxury car service instd of "strength training with patrick willis." come on todd! flap them chicken wings. [ grunts ] well, i travel a lot and umm...

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neil: benghazi ju got more messy, new e-mails reveal a lot of inconit i inconsistencies tht jive. ted always good to have you, you heard senator bob mendez of new jersey said, weave vetted this whole be benghazi thing, let's e on, and petraeus now, coming out as not signing off on this. >> petraeus said, i'm not comfortable with this, i assume not send anything out than send this out, in e-mail traffic, they say, we know, end quote, it was tied to al qaeda. traeus wanted to get t truth

t he was the blocked. this ishe kind of thing we have to investigate, don't you think in middle of presidential campaign we need to know about an al qaeda attack, i kind of do. neil: you know what i wonder about too whether the other scandals that have come to life, irs. a serious breach of a lot, and justice department going after reporters in a way they can shift attention away from what could be far more o ominous infraations in benghazi. >> that is right, i think we have a media that is gleeful to cover these other things because benghazi is bigger. look. neil, nobody died in watergate this is the kind of thing that american people, deserve to have a full vetting of.

we're not going to get it unless mr. boehner passes frank wolf's bill, and gets the committee created. neil: you know what is interesting too, i give kudos for many media going after the irshing. the benghazi thing they have been trying to say, it is so old, so out there. that there is nothing there do you suspect that is the intention that administration would sooner deal with an irs crisis, than a benghazi crisis? that is where this is going? >> i think that is right. i'll see that and raise you one, i think that administration is terrified to what people would find out if the benghazi affair was actually other -- thorough investigated, that is why it needs to be mad

neil: senator mccain, was with me, he said, they should have recall hillary clinton to testify. as a private citizen, and subpoena her, and all principles who talked about the beginning, i can't see it happening in this senate. they might make make a go of in the house, a lot would be in limb low, right in. >> well, it would be, it will just disappear..@ if the don't have the selec committee in the house, there will never be one in senate, mr. wolf was first with the idea, rather than mr. mccain. so, you end up with a situation, well, have to have boehner have the courage to actually do this. who what are iwhat is the harm? let's have a real investigation. let's see what they say. >> you hit the nail the head.

all those other crisis, no one died. 4 people are dead as a result of this. thank you good seeing you again. >> thank you, sir. neil: you thought irs was just a bully, when it comes to spying on your tax record, it is already seizing your he'll records -- health records he boys used double miles from their capital one venture card to fly home for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mother! traling is easy with the vente card because you can fly airline anytime. two words. double miles! this guy can act. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys! and with double miles you c actuay use, you never miss the fun. beard grong conte and go! ♪ win! what's in your wallet?

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>> it is devastating and i am not surprised because the past week the irs made a very obvious they're operating with the underlying political agenda and theye willing to violate the constitution to do so with the first amendment targeting conservative and religious groups that now wi the fourth amendment to a not3 lawfully seized medical records these innocent americans. john: we don't knowow their political persuasion or maybe if this was part of what the eventual job would be and they jumped the gun? >> this is clearly a mistake 60 agents went in to seize documents with a related tax lawsuits to take a medical records these agent were clearly not the best and brightest dis. >> doesn't that give y

pause? this is just a preview of coming attractions with a backdrop of the consvative groups. >> i disagree it was low-level bureaucrats to made a terrible mistake. >> they have millions of records. >> it is always low level always >> wh concerns me is the broad sweep the lawsuit and what implications that has but they have new heads in charge of the irs some served also under george bush and i am sure they will get the house in order. >> i say go slow until you do and she i right former bush appointees said don't care whose fault it is but the irs should not proceed when makes the mistake of this magnitude forget about

targeting conservative groups if you are jumping on millions of folks tax records when you should not be in medicare the political persuasion you should be doing it and they are doin it and then the head being granted far more sweepg and substantial powers. >> the fundamental problem is thers too much power and bureauctic power to be handed over to the agencies likehe irs and there'll always be dozens or hundreds of agents or low-level bureaucrats who will act bad the to do bad things in instead of making excuses we should limit government power on the front end and that is what we have to do something about the health care law before they have a huge interagency data base with regul access and a role beijing can get all kinds of information because it will be stored ithe government data base that they have access to and the potential for these types of problems becomes much greater with more government

power and that is why today's repeal was so important and it will continue to be a major debate as this is rolled out going into the fall was open enrollment. >> but if it doesn'to further than the house it is done and we e stock. >> i agree. >> but do these issues that have popped up regarding the irs prompt the health care rollout to slow down dramatically? >> mocrats and republicans need to be outraged and demand a full investigation fore they have the full implementaon because how can they trust to the irs when they break the w lets stand right? there needs to be a full-fledged investigation into the irs before they are granted ev more power into our lives and medical business.

>> i agree you have rogue agents i have this theory when you have a contract it is just the very not all contractors but i am beginning to wonder and that it is stupendous and race them and that is why i say go slow. >> again, we talk about isolatedncidents with the irs under george bush was investigating. >> but those were isolated incidents. >> do you fire the top guy? >> select agency in one office in cincinnati tat

investigated conservative groups and 15 ages in a moment of incompetencece surely went in and. john:. >> we don't know there is the investigation. >> but they're using this as an excuse. >> it is a significant abuse of power. >> if you have problems and examine the problems that is all i am saying. >> even with respect to the health care law we have a highly questionable rule forcing employer penalties that is being litigated right now and that came from the same brain trust. >> let's hope it is limited but i am not encouraged and i do appreciate you joining me. we'll be getting reaction

from the irs hearing with former irs commissioner and n more.iterally where there we shall see. tomorrow night. >> government against the little guy. >> you never thought working on his own property would cost him. >> please dante i have worked so hard for. >> they saidhey want to help the little guy. >> but the support comes with strings. >> investing in $200,000 to apply for the permit that never arrived. >> so many have been stifled >> they may have not even thought about coming into this city. >> they also stifle ways to get around town >> why can't everyone? >> because bureaucrats are against the little guys. tonight.