>>. >> lou: hello everybody, thanks for being with us. president obama and his staff defending his administration against three separate controversies and scandals that have forced the president to pivot from his presidentiil legacy. the benghazi cover-up and irs targeting conservatives and the justice department's extraordinary seizure of phone records of a.p. reporters. as a result. white house officials are spending their time doing damage control instead of working on the president's second term agenda. while the president said he wants to pass an immigration

bill before the summer but infighting of the costs over the gang of eight immigration plan and, of course, on the president's side, the scandals look as though they may well thwart his aspirations. heritage foundation is allowing 11 illegal immigrants a pathway would cost over $6 trillion. conservative economists, however are taking the heritage foundation on and arguing with the report saying it doesn't take into account the economic benefits of immigration reform. today, we're bringing you both sides of that debate. we'll be talking to co-author of heritage study, a former congressional budget office and president of the american action forum and he'll tell us why immigration reform will invigorate our economy. also cofounder of one of the

groups on the irs enemies' list. jenny beth harten. the author of a new study, robert rector, it's deja-vu all over again. we can go back to 2007, kennedy, mccain and the heritage foundation with a study and the number was $2.5 trillion. >> right. $2.7 trillion. the analysis i did and everybody agreed with was only the retirement costs now i'm doing pre-retirement and post retirement and government is 40% big are. it's unbelievable and that is why this bill is going to cost a fortune. >> lou: i have not thought of it

the way you cast it between now and 2007 when immigration, comprehensive immigration reform legislation was rolled back. 40% bigger in just about six years. it's incredible. there is something else going on that is fast a nate go to me. as you put forward this study, cato, the americans for tax reform, i'm talking about strong vibrant voices. the club for growth, you go through it and americans for tax reform and the american action forum, doug's outfit, they say you are wrong and couldn't be wronger. he has numbers. instead of what you are concluding your reported it

would reduce the deficit by $2.5 trillion? >> i sent six months months on this report. the methodology is about 30 pages long. any person can look at my detail of my analysis. mr. egan has a press release of study he might do. difficult to assess what he is talking about because it's so hidden and minimal. one thing i can say about that is his study basically concludes that an immigrant with an ph.d. and one with a fourth grade education has an equal effect of reducing the deficit in government. that is not only wrong but it's stupid. the reality that a high skilled

immigrant, one with a college education pays about $30,000 more in taxes than they take in benefits. a low educated immigrant one with high school degree or less does exactly the opposite. though will take about $30,000 more in benefits than they pay in taxes. the essence of this bill is saying that it's going to take 11.5 million illegal immigrants that on average education of tenth grade and giving them access to 80 different welfare programs, obamacare which is going to cost about $28 billion a year for them and social security and medicaid and somehow those individuals are going to pay more in taxes than they take out benefits. that is ludicrous. i have yet to find a normal american that really believes an american with tenth grade

education pays more in taxes. in reality they will get about $4 in bfgs for every dollar they pay in taxes. overall the expenditures over the course of their lifetimes will be over $9 trillion. they are going to pay about $3 trillion in taxes. every kind of taxes they pay but the net cost to the u.s. taxpayer is about $6 trillion. about $120,000 for each upper class family. >> lou: there is something that hasn't changed since 2007. i do get an answer, if i ask you a question. good talking with you. i had some other questions. cavuto tells me what to do. good to talk with you. our next guest says immigration reform could invigorate the economy. higher rate of growth, more money per person in the workplace and budget reduction

benefits. we're talking about a lot of it. joining me is the former director of the budget office, douglas egan. good to have you here. you conservatives, you guys are a tough lot. you guys got a battle raging over your forecast. how it could be that all of you would go after your own version of reality that seemingly had been kind of settled? >> i don't think there is internal battle as most conservatives believing in the power of markets and growth. heritage foundation has gotten a lot of kritd sivm. but what they understand immigration reform as potential that improves the quality of the llbor force, allows us to meet some of our growth needs.

>> lou: robert rector and it is your response to his response. here is robert. >> egan has numbers, in fact of what you are concluding in your report, he says it would reduce the deficit by $2.5 trillion. >> i spent six months preparing this report. it's about 80 pages long. the appendix it describes the methodology of what i did is over 30 pages long. anybody can look in every detail of my analysis. mr. egan doesn't have a study or report. he has a press release about a study he might do. he has provided about a page and a half of information. >> lou: how do you respond to that? >> well, i say brevity is the soul of wit.

what we looked at was the difference between the typical immigration scenario and what the census called a high scenario. we reported the facts on labor force participation, higher than native born, business start-ups by immigrants, higher than the native born. then it's just arithmetic. >> lou: let me ask you something. what is the correlation between, college degrees and advanced degrees and employment levels. is there one? >> there is is no question as your education is up, your unemployment go down and skills are at a premium. >> lou: so when you have 11 million immigrants, the number being used, and more than half of them don't have high school

degrees why does your confidence level rise so much? >> here is the thing that the heritage study does. we have the 11 million and jumps to the conclusion that all 11 million will remain here when big chunk of them will not qualify for legal status. they will be low wage workers but when you look at the details they get high social security benefits. the system gives low benefits to low wage workers, high benefits to high wage workers. it's how they did it. >> lou: i love the way he puts you down for being two pages and -- let me turn to another aspect of this. you think there will be fewer people that seek citizenship over the course of years ahead.

what is that number? >> the key here out of the 11 million there will be some that qualify for status and some who don't. if you have a felony or misdemeanors. we were predicated not on those folks, ours is predicated on the new immigration numbers and first time switching our system away from family unification and toward economic merit. that is the key part of this bill. that should be the focus. >> lou: let's get this big done and let's get rational? >> i wish honestly we could pick and choose on the issues. the reality is we have one bill and that is the bill we analyze. >> lou: it's tough for me, i've been doing this for a while -- i've covered this for decades. >> we have been here before.

>> lou: but i have a difficult time understanding where people get their numbers. i have confidence of the numbers restrictions nor the border advocates or bringing in 11 million illegal immigrants is the solution to adding population growth to the equation for economic growth. i don't think enough people are being honest enough. a lot of folks are arguing about here, is whether or not the only way to save the economy is to add a unch of people. you think that is an unfair statement? >> i think there are two things about that. 11 million are already here. that is not who we are bringing in. native pop laying has a low birth rate. -- population has a low birth rate. that is what we should choose. >> lou: douglas, thank you very

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♪ >>. >> lou: new report by the institute of energy research exposing the obama's administration outrageous waste on the alternate energy loan program. this is amazing. you hear the headlines but when you look at the study, the department of energy has spent nearly $26 billion since 2009 on two loan guarantee projects that have created just under 2300 jobs.

the staff did the math for me and told me it works out to a cost $11.5 million a job. at some point people have got to figure out what they are doing down there, don't you think? former vice president al gore saying obama administration should approve the keystone pipeline. it made no difference if it came from eradicate to like less friendly nations like venezuela. there is no such thing assets cal oil and only dirty oil and dirt yes, sir oil. he is well known user of private jets that are most energy efficient way of traveling around the world. it emits at least 900 pounds of carbon dioxide compared to 180

pounds of commercial jet but i'm sure there is no hypocrisy involved. we need to change our definition of success and have a fulfilling career in life. joining us now is harvard business professor author of this new book. what you really meant to do. a road map to reaching your potential. it's great to have you. let me say professor, i think it's inappropriate to call you rob. we're talking business. the idea of finding pit bull, i was on seventh avenue. i was looking at people that were selling their wares and i flashed back when i was a sophomore in harvard, second time in new york, i was trying to figure out what i was going to do. i found it intimidating to see an opportunity and jobs. how do you find that potential? >> what i try to help people do in my whole career when i managed people, first start

understand your strengths and weaknesses and do homework on jobs and which jobs are a good fit. that sounds simmle, but most people struggle to do one or more of those things. >> lou: as you look at the road map, as kaplan puts it to reaching your potential, it's a simple world in terms of career, you are measured by money. the feedback is straightforward? >> no. i used to give this talk. i still havvn't met a business person yet that doesn't become successful by adding value to a customer or a client. you've got to add value. you've got to build distinctive. you've got to be great at certain things. you can make money for a year or

two but not over a sustainable period of time. and that is certainly true of wall street. it's true of everyone out there, what i'm trying to say to people rather than listening to what are what your friends are saying rather add jobs and add value and money will follow. >> lou: that is one of expressions i use, talking with my colleagues, we're adding value to the air. that is good advice. it's a pretty good idea. rob kaplan's book, we recommend highly. it's available in book stores and online now. it's highly rank order amazon. we'll continue to flok this book mercilessly. good to have you with us.

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>>. >> lou: we've been talking about foreign policy but a big week for immigration reform. they will begin a debate of amendments to the immigration bill this thursday and it's going to be dramatic. republican senator marco rubio he is the face of the gang of eight. it's really quite remarkable that he became the face of bipartisan democratically led effort. there it is. these are the faces of opposition. the gangbusters, if you will. demint is number one because he is the president of the heritage foundation and today the senior research fellow. robert rector shows that

legalizing 11 million immigrants will cost taxpayers a net $6.3 trillion! i mean, that is over the coming decade. that is net number. why? according to heritage tangling the typical illegal immigrant household is receiving right now $14,000 a year. and even more in government payments that could jump by their estimates to $30,000 if the gang of eight plan becomes law. more than double. heritage is a force. back in 2007 the last time congress debated reeorm, they

produced an analysis that amnesty would cost $2.6 trillion. over the next several decades. there is going to be great weight given to this study. they are going to create opposition. the club for growth and americans for tax reform, two conservative outfits, jumping in to criticize the heritage study but they usually win these conservative battles. this is congressman, bob goodlatte they are in such a rush to pass the bill that some are drawing compare songs to the cram down of obamacare, you remember that which is clearly not an example of good government practice. but he is taking a sensible

approach to immigration legislation. he has introduced two smaller measures, important but smaller measures. one, an agricultural guest worker program. the other would be the e-verify system which requires employers to verify through the government system whether or not a prospective employee is legal and qualified for that job. he says headlight introduce other measures in the weeks ahead. he is the incrementalist and thoughtful approach in contrast to others what would call a cram down effort on the part of president. jeff sessions of alabama, ranking republican on the senate budget committee. the most vocal critic.

he says the path for citizenship for 11 million illegal immigrants is pure bull. he has an impressive amount of research to support his position. according to sessions and the staff of the republican staff of the senate budget committee, the gang of eight plan wouldn't give legal status to 11 million but more than 32 million immigrants. an additional 25 million visas in his judgment, that is 25 million. i'm so neat, usually. i was kidding about being neat. visas, 25 million of them. it would be granted in hhs view to non-immigrants and now we know that the senator's feeling because of the mounting

opposition to the gang of eight plan. he is starting, reib reib is saying, why rush it? why not make sensible judgments? the question in all of this given the record of this administration and this congress and senate, will the facts matter at all to them? we'll find out. >> obama administration has an enemies' list, conservatives under attack by the irs. jenny the cofounder of the tea party patriots joins us next. iqt which help us attract the industry's britest minds who create powerfustrategies for a country's investments which are used to build new schools touild more bright minds.

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>>. >> lou: one of those targeted by the irs, she claims the irs has lied and now demanding to know how high the cover-up goes. joining us is the cofounder of

tea party patriots, jenny beth martin. good to have you. you are going to be at the hearing to be done by dave camp this friday investigating the internal revenue service's political targeting. were i aware, did you suspect that this is what the irs was doing to you and your organization? >> yeah, we suspected it for well over a year. thank you for having me on. in 2012 at the beginning of the year we got these crazy letters from the irs. they were asking questions about the facebook posts and emails, who we sent press releases to, who in the media we talked to. it didn't have anything to do whether or not we were accounting at a c-4 or 501-c organization.

it's distressing behavior on the part of irs. >> lou: targeting tea party organizations, those that are involved -- i mean the list of those targeted here are conservative. there is no doubt about it. i would be surprised to know as you were delayed in trying to win your 501-c four and three exemptions is that the irs in january of this year, january of this year and first lady made the official announcement on january 18th that the organization go for action group the president's personal political army has been approved for 501-c status. how does it make you feel? >> we wondered about that. people around the country have asked questions about it. we saw that was happening that was organized for america.

none of these tea party groups is still, the irs is still stringing us along. it's ridiculous. i expected tea party groups and patriot groups, i'm glad to see the truth is coming out. i was shocked to see that they actually said they were looking for people that were going to educate on the constitution and bill of rights. since when is that a reason to raise a red flag? >> lou: since when is it appropriate to criticize any agency of this government, period? jenny, we look forward as you attend the hearing. dave camp is making certain that the american people know what is happening with their government. that will be nice for a change. thank you very much. jenny beth martin. up next, the advertising industry has gone viral.

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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> lou: that video, well, it's gathered some six million views since posted, part of a viral marketing campaign inspired created by our next guest. the cofounders of the viral marketing firm think moto, james

and michael, good to have you both here. we're watching people react on the web, what would you do if you were watching a murder in progress. i love the fact that you decided at some point you would have people that didn't react at all. i love the people that sort of murder in progress, i've got to get the bill. that is an extraordinary response, but its response that you guys are used to? >> we create scenarios that are really engaging, not only engaging for people in the moment but more so for the viewers. across the board this is what we do to attract audiences and introduce them to our clients. >> lou: what inspired that. i know the movie was the purpose of it but what inspired you? >> it's a dark and greedy and we wanted to be something along the theme of the movie where there was a scene and

strangulation happening. we decided to do a real life social experiment, what would you do if you witnessed something like that. it's an engaging something. what would people do. >> lou: i would be behind the woman with the umbrella. >> she was taking charge. >> how long does it take you to do that video? >> pretty quick. the course of a few day. we work fast. >> lou: and it's great for the web and what you are trying to do. >> our's thet sick different than a commercial. the camera we use is less expensive thhn the meal we serve. >> lou: i have to confess, i was unaware of this, famous of all the videos. here is popenator and see what these two created.

to drive a product. you'll never guess which the product is. i'm sure. >> pop, yeah, i want to do this thing, it's an automatic device, it's pretty cool. ♪ ♪ ♪ one thing that never changes about popcorn is how people get it in their mouths. it's a fully automated voice activated, when you say pop, where the word pop came from. popenator uses a microphone. >> we had in our daily lunches and meetings and people were skeptical. but now everyone really loves it. >> the product you are driving here is popcorn indiana. >> popcorn indiana. >> i'm one of those people, i suppose there are millions that

would have a popenator with popcorn indiana. what was the result of your client. give us a metric. >> web traffic just exploded. it went up by thousand percent. facebook page, it was the most talked about brand. that was the problem on top of any other major brand and they want awareness and we gaveethem exactly that. >> lou: i have to think mojo, what is the origin of that? >> we created it. it's a word that had a cool sound. it happens to be available. >> lou: what do you think of that one. does it seem like a rip off. does a wall, does it looks like a rip off. i kind of liked it. >> maybe it was a subsidiary.

we're going to be negotiating through the remainder of the show. we thank you very much. much success. think modo. i still don't know what it means. but it means success. appreciated it. innovator, political dynamo. to describe the founder and leader of fox news. now, a new biography, roger ailes off camera. to fly home for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mother! traveling is easy with the venture card because you can fly aiine anytime. two words. double miles! this guy can act. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys! and with double miles you can actuay use, youever miss the fun. beard growing conte and go! ♪ win! what's in your wallet?

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>>. >> lou: roger ailes off camera arc fascinating new book about the president of fox news and boss here. president obama once called the most powerful man in america. we agree with president obama on

this. joining me now is author, congratulations on the book. i want to start with just calling roger ailes most powerful man in america, that is stout stuff. how close to true is it? >> this came up when roger went to the white house. he was in the reception line for a christmas party. somebody else called him that. when he got to the president, obama said, most powerful man in america. roger linda into him, don't believe that, i wrote that bs myself. >> lou: but that is characteristic of roger to self-deprecating. i have had the privilege of working a long time in this business. there is no more feared

executive in television news. i would say in television period certainly in the news media than roger ailes. he is feared and respected. gives us a sense of the character that he reveals as you take on his biography. >> i spent close to a year with him in meetings and traveling in social situations. i was just very surprised how down to earth he is. he is a guy from small town in ohio. he is sophisticated and center of american politics and nixon administration and center of the media. he became the kind of blunt, attitude of a small town america which i relate to because i grew up in a town pretty much like his -- pontiac, michigan. he is from warren, ohio.

>> lou: who is the sophisticated one, i can ask you that coming from idaho. [ laughter ] >> lou: that is one thing. refer to idaho as the cultural wasteland. i did get over it. >> you went to school. >> lou: don't remind me. you've been around a lot of smart, highly successful and amazing personalities. rated roger's, his intellect, his wit. i've never seen anyone, i have to say the smartest man operating in the business. i only say that because he is my boss -- he really is. he is extraordinary? >> he has done extraordinary things. there is no question about that. fox news is an accomplishment and before that cnbc and advisor

to three presidents. about that he was sort of a legendary boy producer at mike douglas show. it's hard to argue with his success. however, else you want to look at hhm, he succeeded in everything he how soon tried. >> lou: the idea he has this wit. referring to the fellow who runs msnbc. i saw one line, his wit is so razor sharp and have bigger thoughts and stories. referring to that person as being successful because he was in another man's wedding party. that is about as convincing and damning as you can be? >> you get one liners from roger self-deprecating but usually you survive. >> lou: we thank you for being here. the book is roger ailes, off camera.

come back. >> president john f. kennedy a meth addict and more the shocking story of the doctor that hooked the president and camelot on drugs. the authors of the new book, dr. feel good join us tonight. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com day and ke your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a scker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer,

one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoyll of these years. ♪ ♪ lou: get ready. shocking new revelations about president john f. kennedy's famous first debate with richard nixon and a whole lot more about camelot. my next guest says jfk was energized because of methamphetamine. an infamous dr. who actually laid the foundation for methamphetamine and the drug culture in this country in large measure, or so they contend. joining us now are the ahors, authors of the brand new book, dr. feel good. i want to read all subtitled because when a subtitle is as

long there's a reason for it. it is a shocking story of the doctor who may have changed history by treating and drugging jfk,d., elvis, and other prominent figures. gentlemen, thank you and congratulations. but let me start with this. the book starts out, your research and polling altogether some time ago, to be about robert cummings, a well-known, popular actor did not state any part of what happened. tell us what happened, how it became about jfk very quickly. >> bob cummings was a great actor who is kwn as a health fanatic. and in our research, link letter and dwayne hickman, we found out that bob cummings w an methamphetamine addict destroy his life. lou: destroyed his life, and you conducted interviews from 2004, five on the last year. you talked with george clooney, jerry lewis, yogi berra, all

about dr. max jacobsen's patience. that president. the idea that the president, anyone has a sense that there was something wro. painkillers, that sort of thing, but to be injected,nd as you point out, before the debate, i don't want to give away too much, but to be injected with methamphetames may have actually changed his performance in the first debate with richard nixon. >> remember, nixon was f. kennedy in the polls going into that first debate. and people saw kennedy -- lou: i have to tell you, i have forgotten that until i read it in the book. >> was dead in the polls. he was considered a lot of gravitas. and not only did kennedy get a shot of this methamphetamine formula tha gives him energy. he was barely walki. he was so tired, fatigued. he had no voice left. and nixon was also suffering

from a malady. yet on disney. he had an infected needle. kennedy treatments and not putting make a bond. he walksnd glycogen nest. the polls shifted that night. kennedy was ahead in the polls after that debate instead through e course of the campaign. lou: let's go through the back to marilyn monroe. mickey mantle. to have l of these popular cultural iconsnvolved in this. this guy, a german immigrant, dr. jacobson, injecting all of these people. the weather reaches out across hollywood to washington. it is extraordinary. >> he relieved reaches out and chans our society. and he stayed at the rate of the entire time. iean, he treated lynyrd bernstein, anthony quinn. his office was in new york who's who, starting a 10:00 at night

until four in the morning beacon, nancy truman capote and tennessee williams. a gifted thorium was met the enemy shot evebody stayed. and it was a who's who of new york, hollywood, or theorld. lou: and you assert that this was thfoundation the drug culture in this country. >> absolutely. methamphetamines were legal in 1960, and it was only after the jacobsen expos a in the 1970's that we started the beau of narcotics and dangerous dru, that the drug war began, and it was in large measure because of max jacobson. lou: i hope you will come back because i want to talk about how this book is being blocked by some prominent media. apparently they don't like the idea that jfk would be in any way reveal to the amerin people. we are going to have to leave it there. this book we recommend to you highly, and it is on our

website. loudobbs.com. thank you fellows for being here. good luck with the book. it is on sale at bookstores near you and on the web, of course. >> announcer: the following program is a paid advertisemen for the food lovers fat loss system, brought to you by provida life sciences-- practical solutions for better living. >> i'm annette, i'm from studio city, california. i'm a mother of three, i weight 155-1/2 pounds. this is the aviest i've er be. i'm a size 10. ...and this is me now! i lost 25 pounds and went from that size 10 to this size 2 in just 12 weeks. how did i do it? i became a food lover. >> i'm a food lover and i lost 36 pounds. >> i'm a food lover and i've lost 50 pounds. >> i'm a food lover and i lost 60 pounds. >> i'm a food lover and i lost 82 pounds in eight months.