live. it every weekday from 3:00 to 6:00 eastern time. we'll have another great tv show for you next week on fox business. in the meantime, i hope to hear you on the radio. >>. >> lou: hello everybody, thanks for being with us. president obama and his staff defending his administration against three separate controversies and sndals that have forced the psident to pivot from his presidtiil legacy. the benghazi cover-up and irs targeting conservatives and the justice department's extraordinary seizure of phone recor of a.p. reporters. as a result. white house officials are spending their time doing damage control instead of working on the president's second term agenda. while the president saide wants to pass an immigration

bill beforthe summer but infighting of the costs over the gang of eight immigration plan and, of course, on the president's side, the scandals look as though they may well thwart his aspirations. heritage foundation is allowing 11 illegal immigrants a pathway wouldost over $6 trillion. conservative economists, however are taking the heritage foundation on and arguing with the report saying it doesn't take into accou the economic benefits of immigration reform. today we're bringing you both sid ofhat debate. we'll be talking to co-author of heritage study, a former congressional budget office and president of the american action forum and he'll tell us why immigraon reform will invigorate our economy. also cofounder of one of the

groups on the irs enemies' list. jenny beth harten. the author of a new study, robert rector, it's deja-vu all over again. we can go back to 2007, kennedy, ccain and the heritage foundationn with a study and the number was $2.5 trillion. >> right. $2.7 trillion. the analysis i did andverybody agreed with was only the retirement cos now i'm doing pre-retirement and post retirement and government is 40% big are. it's unbelievable and that is why this bill is going to cost a fortune. >> lou: i have not thought of it

the way you cast it between now and 2007 when immigration, comprehensive immigration reform legislation was rolled back. 40% bigger in just about six years. it's incredible. there is something else going on that is fast a nate go to me. as you put forward this study, cato, the americans for tax reform, i'm talking about strong vibrant voices. the club for growth, you go through it and americans for tax reform and the american action forum, doug's outfit, they say you are wrong and couldn't be wronger. he has numbers. insteadf what you are concluding your reported it

would reduce the deficit by $2.5 trillion? >> i sent six months months on this report. the methology is about 30 pages long. any person can look at my detail of my analysis. mr. egan has a press release of study he might do. it's very difficult to assess what he is talking about because it's so hidden and minimal. one thing i can say about that is his study basically concludes that an immigrant with an ph.d. and one with a fourth grade education has an equal effect of reducinghe deficit in government. that is not only wrong but it's stupid. the reality that a high skilled immigrant, one with a college

education pays aut $30,000 more in taxes thanhey take in benefits. a low educated immigrant one with high school degree or less does exactly thepposite. though will take about $30,000 more in benefits than they pay in taxes. the essence of this bill is saying that it's going to take 11.5 million illegal immigrants that on average education of tenth grade and giving them access to 80 different welre programs, obamacare which is going to cost about $28 billion a year for them and social security and medicaid and somehow those individuals are going to pay mo in taxes than they take out benefits. that is ludicrous. i have yet to find aal american that really believes an american with tenth grade

education pays more in taxes. in reality they will get about $4 in bfgs for every dollar they pay in taxes. overall the expenditures over the course of their lifetimes will be over $9 trillion. they are going to pay about $3 trillion in taxes. every kind of taxes they pay but the net cost the u.s. taxpayer is about $6 trillion. about $120,000 for each upper class family. >> lou: there is somhing that hasn't changed since007. i do get an answer, if i ask you a question. good talking with you. i had some other questions. cavuto tellse what to do. good to talk with you. our next guest says immigration reform could invigorate the economy. higher rate of growth, more money per person in t workplace and budget reduction

benefits. we're talking about a lot oft. joining me is the former director of the budget office, douglas egan. good to have you here. you conservatives, you guys are a tough lot. you guys got a battle raging over your forecast. how it could be that all of you would go after your own version of reality that seemingly had been kind of settled? >> i don't think there is internal battle as most conservatives believing in the power of markets and growth. heritage foundation has gotten a lot of kritd sivm. but what they understand immigration reform as potential that improves the quality of t llbor force, allows us to meet some of our growth needs. >> lou: robert rector and it is

your response to his response. here is robert. >> eganas numbers, in fact of what you are concluding in your eport, he says it would reduce the deficit by $2.5 trillion. >> i spent six months preparing this report. it's about 80 pages long. the appdix it describes the methodology of what i did is over 30 pages long. anybody can look in every detail of my analysis. mr. egan doesn't have a stu or report. he has a press release about a study he might do. he has provided about a page and a hf of information. >>ou: how do you respo to that? >> well, i say brevity is the soul of wit. what we looked at was the

difference between the typical immigration scenario and what the census called a high scenario. we reported the facts on labor force participation, higher than native born, business start-ups by immigrants, higher than the nativeorn. tn it's just arithmetic. >> lou: let me askyou something. what is the correlation between, college degrees and advanced degrees and employment levels. is there one? >> there is is no question as your education is up, your unemployment go down and skills are at a premium. >> lou: so when you have 11 million immigrants, the number being used, and more than half of them don't have high school degrees why does your confidence

level rise so much? >> here is the thing that the hitage study does. we have the 11 million and jumps to the conclusion that all 11 million will remain here when big chunk of them will not qualify for legal status. they will be low wage workers but when you look at the details they get high social security benefits. the system gives lowenefits to low wage workers, high benefits to high wage workers. it's how they did it. >> lou: i love the way he puts yyou down for being two pages and -- let me turn to another aspect of this. you think there will be fewer people that seek citizenship over the course of years ahead

what is tt number? >> out of the 11 million there will be some that qualify for status and some who don't. if y have a felony or misdemeanors. we were predicated not on the folks, our is predicated on the new immigration numbers and first time switching our system away fro family unification and toward economic merit. that is the key part of this bill. that should be the foc. >> lou: les get this big done and let's get rational? >> i wish honestly we could pick and choose on the issues. the reality is we have one bl and that is the bill we analyze. >> lou: it's tough for me, i've been doing this for a while -- i've covered this for decades. >> we have been here before.

>> lou: but i have a difficult time underanding where people get their numbers. i have confidence of the numbers restrictions nor the border advocates or bnging in 11 million illegal immigrants is the solution to adding population growth to the equation for economic growth. i don't think enough people are being honest enough. a lot ofolks are arguing about here, is whether or not the only way to save the economy is to add a unch of people. you think that is an unfair statement? >> i think there are two things abo that. 11 million are already here. that is not who we are bringing in. native pop laying has a low birth rate. -- popution has a low birth rate. that is what wehould choose. >> lou: douglas, thank you very

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♪ >>. >> lou: new report by the institute of energy research exposing the obama's administration outrageous wte on the alternate energy loan program. thiss amazing. you hear the headlinesut when you look at the study, the department of energy has spent nearly $26 billion since 2009 on two loan guantee projects that have created just under 2300 jobs.

the staff d the math for me and told me it works out to a cost $11.5 million a job. at some pnt people have got to figure out what they are doing down there, don't you think? former vice president al ge saying obama administration should approve the keystone pipeline. it made no difference if it came from eradicate to like less friendly nations le venezuela. there is no such thing assets cal oil and only dirty oil and dirt yes, sir oil. he is well known user of private jets that are most energy efficient way of traveling around the world. it emits at least 900 pounds of carbon dioxide comred to 180

pounds of commercial jet but i'm sure there is no hyprisy involved. we need to change our definition of success and have a fulfilling career i life. joining us no is harvard business professor author of this new book. what you really meant to do. a road map to reaching your potential. it's great to have you. let me say professor, i think it's inappropriate to call you rob. we're talking business. t idea of finding pit bull, i was on seventh avenue. i was looking at people that were selling their wares and i flashed back when i was a sophomore in harvard, second time in new york, i was trying to figure out what i was going to do. i found it intimidating to see an opportunity and js. how do you find that potential? >> what i try to help people do in my whole career when i managaged people, first start

understand your strengths and weaknesses and do homework on jobs and which jobs are a good fit. that snds simmle, but most people struggle to do one or more of those things. >> lou: as you look at the road map, as kaplan puts it to reaching your potential, it's a simple world in terms of career, you are msured by money. the feedback is straightforrd? >> no. i used to give this talk. i still havvn't met a business person yet that doesn't become sucssful by adding value to a customer or a client. you've got to add value. you've got to build distinctive. you've got to be great at certain things. you can make money for a year o

two but not over ariod of time. and that is certainly true of wall street. it's true of everyone out there, what i'm trying to say to people rather thanlistening to what are what your friends are saying rather add jobs and add value and money will follow. >> lou: that is one of expressions i use, talking with my colleagues, we're adding value to the air. that is good advice. it's a pretty good idea. rob kaplan's book, we recommend highly. it available in book stores and online now. it's highly rank order amazon. we'll ctinue to flok this book mercilely. good to have you with us.

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>>. >> lou: we've been talking about foreign policy but a big week for immigration reform. they will begin a debate of amendments to the migration bill this thursday and it's going to be dramatic. republican senator marco rubio he is the face of the gang of eight. it's really quite remarkable that he bece the face of bpartisan democratically led effort. there it is. these are the faces of opposition. the gangbusters, if you will. demint is number one because he is the presidentf the heritage foundation and today the senior research fellow. robert rector shows that

legalizing 11 million immigrants will cost taxpayers a net $6.3 trillion! i mean, that is over the coming decade. that is net number. why? according to heritage tangling the typical illegal immigrant household is receiving right now $14,000 a year. and even more in government payments that could jump by their estimates to $30,000 i the gang of eight plan becomes law. more than double. heritage is a force. back in 2007 th last time congress debated reeorm, ty

produced an analysis that amnesty would cost $2.6 trillion. over the next several decades. there is going to be great weight given to this study. they are going to create opposition. the club for growth and americans forax reform, two conservative outfits, jumping in to criticize the heritage study but they usually win these conservative battles. this is congressman, bob goodlatte they are in such a rush to pass the bill that some are drawing compare songs to the cram down of obamacare, you remember that which is clearly not an example of good government prae. but he is taking a senble

approach to immigration legislation. he has introduced two smaller measures, important but sller measures. one, an agricultural guest worker program. the other would be the e-verify system which requires employers to verify through the government system whether or not a prospective employee is legal and qualified for that job. he says headlight introduce other meares in the weeks ahead. he is the incrementalist and thoughtful approach in contrast to others what would call a cram down effort on the part of president. jeff sessions of alabama, ranking republican on the senate budget committee. the most vocal critic. he says the path for citizenship

for 11 million illegal immigrants is pure bull. he has an impressive amountf research to support his position. according to sessions and the staff of the republican staff of the senate budget committee, the gang of eight plan wouldn't give legal status to 11 million but more than 32 million immigrants. an additional 25 million visas in his judgment, that is 25 million. i'm so neat, usually. i was kidding about being neat. visa, 25 million of them. it would b granted in hhs view to non-immigrants and now we know that the senator's feeling becausof the mountin

opposition to the gang of eight plan. he is starting, reib reib is saying, why rush it? why not make sensible judgments? theuestion in all of this given the record of this administration and is congress and senate, will the facts matter at all to them? we'll find out. >> obama administratn has an enemies' list, nservatives under attack by the irs. jenny the cofounder of the tea party patriots joins us n

>>. >> lou: one of those targeted by the irs, she claims the irs has lied and nowemanding to know how high the cover-up goes. joining us is the cofounder of tea party patriots, jenny beth

martin. good to have you. you are going to be at the hearing to be done by dave camp this friday investigating the internal revenue service's political targeting. were i aware, did you suspect that this is what the irs was doing to you and your organization? >> yeah, we suspected it for well over a year. thank you for having me on. in 2012 at the beginning o the year we got these crazy letters from the irs. they were asking questions about the facebook posts and emails, who we sent press releases to, who in the media we talked to. it didn't have anything to do whether or not we were accounting at a c-4 or 501-c organization.

it's distressing behavior on the part of irs. >> lou: targeting tea party organizations, those that are involved -- i mean the list of those targeted here are conservative. there is no doubt about it. would be surprised to know as you were delayed in trying to win your 501-c four and three exempons is that the irs in january of this year, january of this year and first lady made the official announcement on january 18th that the organization go for action group the president's personal political army has been approved for 501-c status. how does it make you feel? >> we wondered about that. people around the country have asked questions about it. we saw that was happening that was organized for ameri.

none of these tea party groups is still, the irs is still stringing us along. it's ridiculous. i expected tea party groups and patri groups, i'm glad to see the truth is coming out. i was shocked to see that they actually said they were looking for peple that were going to educate on the constitution and bill of rights. since when is that a reason to raise a red flag? >> lou: since when is it appropriate to criticize any agency of this government, riod? jenny, we look forward as you attend the hearing. dave camp is making certain that the american people know what is happening with their government. that will be nice for a change. thank you very much. jenny beth martin. up next, the advertising industry has gone ral.

how the internet is raising the way some companies advertise and

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> lou: that video, well, it's gathered someix million views since posted, part of a viral marketing campaign inspired created by our next guest. the cofounders of the viral marketing firm think moto, james

and michael, good to have you both here. we're watching people react on the web, what would you do if you we watching a murder in progress. i love the ft that you decided at some point you would have people that didn't react at all. i love the people at sort of murder in progress, i've got to get the bill. that is an extraordinary response, but its response that u guys are used to? >> we create scenarios that are really engaging, not only engaging for people in the moment but more so for the viewers. across the board this is what we do to attract audiences and introduce them to our clients. >> lou: what inspired tt. i know the movie was the purpose of it but what inspired you? >> it'sark and greedy and we wanted to be something along the theme of the movie where there was a key scene and

strangulation happening. we decided to do a real life social experiment, what would you do i you witnessed something like that. it's an engaging something. what would people do. >> lou: i would be behind the wom with the umbrella. >> she was taking charge. >> how long does it take you to do that video? >> pretty quick. the course of few day. we work fast. >> lou: and it's great for the web and what you are trying to . >> our's thet sick different than a commercial. the camerae use is less expensive thhn the meal we serve. >> lou: i have to confess, i was unaware of this, famous of all the videos. here is popenator and see what these two created.

to drive a product. you'll never guess which the product is. i'm sure. >> pop, yeah, i want to do this thing, it's an automatic device, it's pretty cool. ♪ ♪ ♪ one thing t never changes about popcorn is how people get it in their mouths. it's a fully automated voice ctivated, when you say pop, where the word pop came from. popenator uses a microphone. >> w we had in our daily lches and meetings and people were skeptical. but now everyone really loves it. >> the product you are driving here is popcorn indiana. >> popcorn indiana. >> i'm one of those people, i suppose there are millions that

would have a popenator with popcorn indiana what was the result of your client. give us a metric. >> web traffic just exploded. it went up by thousand percent. facebook page, it was the most talked about brand. that was the problem on top of any other major brand and they want awareness and we gaveethem exactly that. >> lou: i have to think mojo, what is the origin of that? >> we created it. it's a word that had a cool sound. it happens to be available. >> lou: what do you think of that one. do it seem like a rip off. does a wall, does it looks like a rip off. i kind of liked it. >> maybe it was a subsidiary.

we're going to be negotiating through the remainder of the show. we thank you very much. much success. think modo. i still don't know what it means. but it means success. appreciated it. innovator, political dynamo. to describe the founder and leader of fox news. now, a new biography, roger ailes off camera alec, for this mission i upgraded your smart phone. ♪ right. but the most important feature of all is... the capital one purchase eraser. i can redeem the double miles i earned with my venture card d with a few clicks, this mission never happened. uh, what's this button do? [ electricity zaps ] ♪ you requested backup? yes. yes i did. what's in your wallet?

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>>. >> lou: roger ailes off camera a fascinating new book about the president of fox news and boss here. president oba once called the most powerful man in america. we agree with president obama on

this. joining me now is author, congratulations on the book. i want to start with just calling roger ailes most powerful man in america, that is stout stuff. how close to true is it? >> this came up when roger went to the white house. he was in the reception line for ahristmas party. somebody else called him that. when he got to the president, obama said, most powerful man in america. roger linda into him, don't believe that, i wrote that bs myself. >> lou: but that is characteristic of roger to self-deprecating. i have had the privilege of working a long time in this business. there is no more feared

executive in television news. i would say in television period certainly in the news media than roger ailes. h is feared and respected. gives us a sense of the character that he reveals as you take on his biography. >> i spent close to a year with him in meetings and traveling in social situations. i was just very surprised how down to earth he is. he is a guy from small town in ohio. he is sophisticated and center of american politics and nixon administration and center of the media. he became the kind of blunt, attitude of a small town america which i relate to because i grew up in a town pretty much like his -- pontiac, michigan. he is from warren, ohio.

>> lou: who ishe sophisticated one, i can ask you that coming from idaho. [ laughter ] >> lou: that is one thing. refer to idaho as the cultural wasteland. i did get over it. >> you went to school. >> lou: dot remind me. you've been arod a lot of smart, highly scessful and amazing psonalities. rated roger's, his intellect, his wit. i've never seen anyone, i have to say the smartest man operating in the business. i only say that because he is my boss -- he ally is. he is extraordinary? >> he has done extraordinary things. there is no question about that. fox news is an accomplishment and before that cnbc and advor

to three presidents. about that he was sort of a legendary boy producer at mike douglas sh. it's hard to argue wh his success. however, else you want to look at hhm, he succeeded in everything he how soon tried. >> lou: the idea he has this wit. referring to the fellow who runs msnbc. i saw one line, his wit is so razor sharp and haveigger thoughts and stories. referring to that person as being successful because he was in another m's wedding party. that is about as convincing and damning as you can be? >> you get one liners from roger self-deprecating but usually you survive. >> lou: we thank you for being here. the book is roger ailes, off camera.

come back. >> president john f. kennedy a meth addict and more the shocking story of the doctor that hooked the psident and camelot on drugs. the authors of the newook, my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. never really thought iould make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

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may be more likely to misuslyrica. having less pain... it's a wonderful feeling. [ female aouncer ] ask your doctor about lyrica today. it's specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain. to hear more patient stories, visit lyrica.com. it's specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain. thank you orvi...amelia...ur... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well intoheir 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much

is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ ♪ lou: get ready. shocking new revelations about president john f. kennedy's famous first debate with richard nixon and a whole lot more about camelot. my next gst says jfk was energized because of methamphetamine. annfamous dr. who actually laid the foundation for methamphetamine and the drug culture in this country in large measure, or so they contend. joining us now are the ahors, authors of the brand new book, dr. feel good. i want to read all subtitled because when a subtitle is as

long there's a reason for it. it is a shocking story of the doctor who may have changed historyy treating and druing jfk,d., elvis, and other prominent figures. gentlemen, thank you and congratulations. but let me start with this. the book starts out, your research and polling altogether some time ago, to be about robert cummings, aell-known, popur actor did not state any pa of what happed. tell us what happened, how it became about jfk very quickly. >>ob cummings was a great actor who is kwn as a health fanatic. and in our research, link letter and dwayne hickman, we found out that bob cummings w an methamphetamine addict destroy his life. lou: destroyed his life, and you conducted interviews from 2004, five on the last year you talked with george clooney, jerry lewis, yogi berra, all

about dr. max jacobsen's patience. that president. thidea that the president, anyone has a sense that there was something wro. painkillers, tt sort of thing, but to be injected,nds you point out, before the debate, i don't want to give away too much, but to be injected with methamphetames may have actually changed his performance in the first debate with richard nixon. >> remember, nixon was f. kennedy in the polls going into that first debate. and people saw kennedy -- lou: i have to tell you, i have forgotn that until i read it in the book. >> was dead in the polls. he was considered a lot of gravitas. and not oy did kennedy get a shot of this methamphetamine formula tha gives him energy. he was barely walki. he was so tired, fatigued. he had no voice left. and nixon was also suffering

from a malady. yet on disney. he had an infected needle. kennedy treatments and not putting make a bond. healksnd glycogen nest. the polls shifted that night. nnedy was ahead in the polls after that debate instead through e course of the campaign. lou: let's go through the back to marilyn monroe. mick mantle. have l of these popular cultural iconsnvolved in this. this guy, a german immigrant, dr. jacobson, injecting all of these people. the weather reaches out across hollywood to washingto. it is extraordinary. >> he relieved reaches out and chans our society. and he stayed at the rate of the entire time. iean, he treated lynyrd bernstein, anthony quinn. his office was in new yorkho's who, starting a 10:00 at night

until four in the morning beacon, nancy truman capote and tennessee williams. a gifted thorium was met t enemy shot evebody stayed. and it was a who's who of new york, hollywood, or the world. lou: and you assert that this was thfoundation the drug culture in this country. >> absolely. methamphetamines were legal in 1960, and it was only after the jacobsen expos a in the 1970's that we started the beau of narcotics and dangerous dru, that the drug war began, and it was in large measure because of max jacobson. lou: i hope you will come back because i want to talk about how this book is being blocked by some prominent media. apparently they don't like the idea that jfk would be in any way reveal to the amerin people. we are going to have to leave it there. this book we recommend to you highly, and it is on our website.

loudobbs.com. thank you fellows for being here. good luck with the book. it is on sale at bookstores near you and on the web, of course.n. we shall see. tomorrow night. >> government again the little guy. >>ou never thought working onis own property would cost him. >> please dante i have worked so hard for. >> they saidhey want to help the little guy. >> but the supportomes with strings. >> in in $200,000 to apply for the permit that never arrived. >> so many have been stifled >> they may have not even thought about coming into this city. >> they also stifle ways to get around town. >> why can'tveryone? >> because bureaucrats are against the little guys. tonight.