the fed may be thinking of winding down their money-printing. liz: "money", speaking of which with dennis kneale in for melissa francis is next. david: we'll see you tomorrow >> i'm dennis kneale in for melissa francis and here is what is money tonight. u.s. senate launches an assault on apple's tax practice and billions it has overseas. can tim cook and other ceos stop a tax grab by congress? we got the world's most valuable brands. a look behind the gold-plated labels. their value could show what you is next for their stock prices. stick around for details. >> and who made money today? one party did and hedge fund billionaire bill ackman is not happy about it. more on that coming up. even when they say it isn't, it is always about money.

>> you chose not to bring those profits home and so $100 billion plus is now stashed away in these three irish companies. >> couldn't one draw the conclusion, that you and apple have an unfair advantage over domestic-based corporations and companies? in other words, smaller companies in this country? >> we got these corporations and you're the biggest one, that are to shift profits to places where you and american companies don't pay income tax on it. that's where we're at. dennis: that is where we're at. senators grilling apple ceo tim cook today on capitol hill. there is outrage in d.c. over apple's use of entirely legal foreign subsidiaries to reduce the tax bill and hold profits made abroad offshore rather than bring the money back to the u.s. and get hit with one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. but apple will pay $7

billion in u.s. federal taxes this year. why don't senators think that is enough? why single out apple for doing what all big companies do? joining me for more on this, cato institute director of tax policy studies, chris edwards and foxnews.com science and technology editor jeremy cap plan. jeremy, it always makes great headlines to say, companies aren't paying enough in taxes and yet i feel how much is enough? don't in companies that pay less money in taxes legally so they give us more money? >> that is the really interesting thing about this they have done exactly nothing wrong but feels so incredibly ridiculous. we're talking about tens of billions of dollars, pure profit, they haven't paid anyone any tax on whatsoever. you have to think, maybe, maybe possibly shouldn't they be spending putting some of that back into the u.s., just a little bit of it. dennis: chris edwards, at cato, is that where we are, paying taxes is do-gooder patriotic duty and a company pay more than it should otherwise have to legally?

>> apple comported itself extremely well at the hearings today. they did not give an inch of ground to the senators who are frankly on a wild goose chase. apple is extremely good for the u.s. economy. 95% of its r&d is here. most of its employees are here and pay as huge amount of taxes. it has done nothing wrong. it has done nothing illegal here apparently. it does what every u.s. multinational has to do these days. they have to do this complex tax planning because the 40% u.s. tax rate is highest in the world. so if anyone has anything to be embarrassed about it is not apple, those senators sitting behind the podium who kept our rates so absurdly high while every country around the world has cut. so good for apple for defending themselves. dennis: jeremy, don't we think those very senators grilling tim cook today hire their own accountants to pay as low a tax as they can? don't you go out of your way to pay as low as tax. >> i absolute do. i'm also not making 100of

billions of dollars overseas and not doing anything with it. i see both sides. on one hand products are made in taiwan pro parts build in taiwan and told to sigh juanees people. what is the u.s. getting involved in that anyway? seems on one hand if apple has no obligations whatsoever for that. dennis: and yet? >> and yet --. dennis: go ahead, chris. >> that's right. 60% of the apple's sales are abroad. there is question here, why should the u.s. government have any anything to do with grabbing some of those foreign profits? most high-income countries, germany, france, canada, have so-called territorial systems where they essentially say, the foreign operations of their multinational companies are none of the country's business. so the united states has this weirdly aggressive system where we try to track down u.s. companies and in all their foreign, all their global operations and we try to tax it here. that makes absolutely no sense. it is bad for the u.s. economy. apple is a huge exporter

that is good for us. so we shouldn't worry about the foreign profits. >> that is not good for us. we're not making anything off it. great for apple, not necessarily great for u.s.. dennis: why isn't good for the u.s.. >> sure it is. almost all their r&d is done here. so that is high-income, high-wage jobs for united states. >> more than that, guys, apple is paying $7 billion in federal income taxes this year. it paid out pension funds that, are pensions for teachers and firefighters, 30 of them have apple as one of the top five holdings. pays out billions of dollars in dividends. this thought somehow the profits apple makes belong to the government instead of bee to people who bought shares in apple, i can't believe i'm hearing this from a fox news guy. >> you're saying 7 billion. that is large number. when you look as a percentage but i don't think necessarily is. dennis: if they're doing it legally what is wrong with it? the government is setting up a tax code that is ridiculously convoluted and they wrote in the loopholes to allow companies to do this. >> i'm with you.

weirdly nuanced. very strange situation and completely legal. good for them. good for them. dennis: i don't see it as nuanced. i see it as washington refusing to cut spending and doing everything to turn apple upside down an bang on the soles of the shoes to knock all the coins out of the pockets. >> i'm frankly apple has so much operations in the united states given our high tax rate. canada has a federal rate of 16%. our rate in the states is 35. that is just crazy. our self-interest is to reduce our corporate tax rate, get more real investment here. get these companies shifting their profits into the united states and not out of the united states. dennis: jeremy, tech second i was say if the government would learn the key lesson of the reagan era 30 years ago, that when you tax something at lower rates you get more of it, then we would have no cash flow problem. if the government would cut the 35% tax rate that we slap on overseas profits already paid taxes once to the local market, if you cut that tax rate to 5% from 35,

finally companies would bring it home. job won chambers of cisco says we would have $800 billion private dollar stimulus plan. not tax dollars. private. yet people say if they're going to let them take home cash on lower tax you have to insist they spend the money certain way. no good to spend money on dividends. wait a minute. the cash belongs to shareholders. >> dennis i admit i'm not a tax expert. you clearly know more about it. i watched entire hearing it was a listening to foreign language and it was boring and dry. i couldn't understand half of it. i tell you one thing the sheer number, tens of billions of dollars they haven't paid taxes to anybody on it. dennis: because they're following the law, guys. >> that is not --. dennis: we'll wrap it up. >> that is not what apple says. apple actually says that the money they hold in this international holding company they have already paid one level of profits to foreign countries. dennis: right. >> and they're trying to avoid a section level of tangs on these profits that is what apple is saying.

dennis: but the bigger things is, guys, bigger thing for shareholders that money belongs to you. it doesn't belong to government. the heck with the u.s. senate for deciding $7 billion one of the highest corporate taxpayers in the country is not enough. thanks for being with us, both of.n. >> thank you. dennis: turning to recovery efforts underway in the aftermath of the deadly tornado that ripped through oklahoma yesterday, ponations pouring in from a number of big companies with strong ties to oklahoma to aid the recovery. home depot set up a million dollar fund today. fox business's rich edson has more on that. rich? >> dennis we'll start with making the biggest donor, 6'9" big, oklahoma city thunder, kevin durant. they will match up to a million dollars in donation, nba and players association are matching. home depot is creating a million dow dollar fund. parent company of oklahoma gas and electric committing half a million dollars.

chesapeake corporation headquartered in oklahoma city is donating a million dollars to the red cross. another energy company, phillips 66 says it is donating a million dollars to the red cross. this is just a sam plink as the american red cross receives significant contributions for disaster aid from the business community. >> if the notion of a partnership, these are the true partners of the red cross. what we've seen in many of these corporations, they do the early investment as part of annual disaster giving program. then they and their employees step up as well in times of disaster with additional donations to help those in need. they're motivated, both as, businesses making invests but also in terms of compassion when they see a disaster on the ground. >> dozens of american companies participate in the red cross's disaster-giving program. they involve donations and commitments from businesses on an annual basis that gives the red cross the ability to deploy into a disaster area immediately especially when give such little warning like in the case of a tornado.

the red cross has also gotten an over whelming response from kids individuals. you can be part of that. text red cross to 90999. texting red cross to 90999. dennis? dennis: that was a good service there, thank you, rich edson. those companies doing a really good thing even though i bet you congress would decide they're not paying enough taxes. >> next on "money," jamie dimon didn't just survive that shareholder vote today as foes sought to strip him of the chairman's title he now looks stronger than ever. are dimon and jpmorgan really out of the rough? a trio of chase watchers are hear to weigh in. world most valuable brands are named. beneath the glitz and glam could be more money for stocks. "piles of money" coming up. ♪ .

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♪ . dennis: love that. the votes are tallied. jpmorgan's chairman and ceo jamie dimon will keep both roles. 32.2% of the shareholders voting to split those jobs. but was this about real corporate reform? or was it about punishing jamie dimon for being kind of arrogant? joining us now we have to

bank analyst extraordinaire dick bove. great to see you, dick. my big surprise, a year ago, 40% of the shareholders voted in favor of stripping titles. in time of this big campaign, big controversy and fewer -pvotes in favor of stripping the titles. what does that say? >> i think two things hhppened. jpmorgan made this massive, if you will, attempt to get the votes in which they didn't do a year ago because they never thought it was possible. but i'm also assuming that maybe there's been a shift thinking about banking. every time you read about jpmorgan you hear about the whale, you hear about too big to manage, all this other stuff but this attack, brought out a lot of positive information that there are only three banks in the united states, three companies in the united states in any industry that make more money than jpmorgan. the jpmorgan makes more money than any other bank in the world except the chinese banks. this guy has been having record earnings, quarter after quarter and that he's turned around two banks so

that they have gone from being i would say money-losers or troubled institutions to institutions that are doing extraordinarily well. i think that all of sudden started to sink into people's psyche and they said, why should we get rid of this guy? dennis: when dimon's friends leaked, jamie told them if they trip me of chairman title i will quit as ceo i worried there would be a backlash, shareholders would go, you know what? don't threaten us. you quit. do you think the threat helped his vote in his favor? >> i do. quite frankly if he lost this, what became a vote of confidence, not a vote on corporate governance, he would have had to leave because he would have lost the support of his shareholders base and i think he would have had to go. just the way ken lewis went when he lost the support of people from bank of america. dennis: right. >> i think the thought that he would leave and he's the guy who created jpmorgan chase to be what it is, you know i think did frighten people. it was a threat, but i think it worked.

dennis: he is the only ceo who made true bank synergy work. these different huge smokestacks that jpm has are able to generate more business for other smokestacks unlike what citi was able to do. now that $6 billion whale loss, the trading loss we all hear about, everyone has their nickers in a twist about came in a quarter even after that loss, jpmorgan earned more money than it ever had before in a quarter. if a separate chairman had been in place at the time, would that have meant they didn't lose $6 billion? >> i think you have to plame him for the loss. dennis: i do blame him. i don't think a chairman would have fixed it. >> i agree. it would not probably be fixed. he is a fallable human being. not only did he do that wrong but he made a big bet on subprime mortgages a few years ago which i think was another huge mistake, right? he does make errors. but he does a lot of things that are correct. he keeps prices of his products very low. i mean it's a bank but he

still thinks he has to be the low cost producer. he innovates management so management are very smart people. it's a very exciting place to work when you're working with him because he keeps it alive. he keeps changing the mix of his products. he allocates his resources to those areas which have the highest return. he controls costs, you know, extraordinarily well. he does a very good job in terms of building capital. dennis: during his credit, during the bubble of '07 he wasn't doing wild cdo off-balance sheet stuffs as other banks. he was more conservative even as he was risky. i have another question for you. institutional shareholders services and glass, whatever it is, the guys that advise big pension fund investors, they came out and said, you should strip dimon of the chairman's title? these isa companies don't think have to vote why he to get paid for share advice. >> you're absolutely right,

were should anybody pay anything for them. eight agencies of the united states suing jpmorgan chase. a couple of states are suing the company. there are thousands of individual lawsuits against the company. i think that there was a strong desire to get rid of them and i think iss and these other groups may have listened to strongly to that song. dennis: we gambled hundreds of billions of dollars of government money to bail out the banks. now in the aftermath, safe and making money, we're draining billions dove lal, and transferring wealth from banks to people who didn't pay their mortgages. i don't quite get it. maybe you can explain it next time. dick bove. one-third of shareholders did vote to smackdown jamie dimon to vote for someone to be his chap perrone. josh, let's start with you, what do you think of the vote today? >> well i think the vote was,

i think it was an interesting vote. i think as dick bove pointed out, jamie dimon leaking that he would leave if he had to separate the roles really probably did turn out those last minute votes in his favor. i think the vote is almost less important for the jamie dimon position than it is for the board where i do expect we're going to see significant changes, both in the composition of the risk committee and in the overall composition of the board. dennis: was this vote today aimed truly at corporate reform or just punishing jamie dimon for being kind of arrogant and cocky? >> i don't think it was punishment but i do agree with josh, that, if you look at the number of diot, barely sy with a sma majority of the vote that was kind of unuuual. i think it portends big changes on the risk committee, possibly the audit committee and the board itself. dennis: josh, may i ask, what was the dissenting shareholders problem? jpmorgan's stock is up over 50% in the past year.

why gripe about it? >> well, look, one could argue that it could be a lot better than that. dennis: oh, common, man. >> listen, jpmorgan since 2009 has paid out $8.5 billion in settlements. that is 12%. they have paid out $16 billion, that is 23% in net income since 09 in litigations expenses. operational --. dennis: that is their fault? isn't that the the fault. government for draining all their money. >> there are operational risk failures have gone on really happened over and over. they had as example, they rigged municipal bond market bids in 34 states. 93 times. they have had violations of weapons of mass destruction control sanctions. on and on and on. there are violations. reality it is a large organization. their risk controls can be strained. and that is part of responsibility of the board is to make sure that internal controls, operational oversight are up to snuff and they haven't been. dennis: you know, moshe, the

other way to look at it, we did some $11 billion settlement that is paying billions of dollars out to mortgage-holders who stopped paying their mortgage on time. >> right. dennis: they defaulted. we're creating moral hazard among the people i will go ahead and overleverage anyway. aren't the banks being ripped off here? >> you know i think that is probably a question for another day but i do believe that the banks did get the short end. stick particularly in the case of jpmorgan and some dennis: hold on, hold on. >> jpmorgan has wrapped itself in the american flag. they bought washington mutual as a favor to the u.s. government. dennis: well they did. >> hold on, hold on. dennis: they were sued for what washington mutual did. that was height of rudeness, was it not? >> they acquired the put-back liabilities, recognized those in reserves for almost a year and a half before deciding that those liabilities belonged to the fdic. they're unnerreserved for those risk that come back to them. there is $10 billion that they're fighting with the

fdic is pretty clear if you read the original purchase agreement belongs to jpmorgan. so let's actually be a little balanced in their, there's an obligation of the company to squeeze as much as it can on behalf of% shareholders. dennis: yeah. >> but they're doing that against the government in areas where really that is questionable. >> josh, think about this for a second. the average bank failure cost of a large bank is 20% of assets. for washington mutual that would have been $70 billion on 350 billion of assets. jpmorgan paid the fdic $2 billion. there is $72 billion bid-ask there that i think you've got to recognize. >> no, no i think what you have to recognize the contractual terms f the acquisition which were very clear. they knew that they acquired them. and only a year, year-and-a-half later did they go back and say, those are the fdic's liability. >> the government pushed all mergers and complains about too big to failure. the government pushes to acquire troubled banks failing without them. jpmorgan does it and turns around and gets sued by feds

and state attorneys general. a height of a lack of appreciation. i don't know why so many guys in finance out there don't like jpmorgan because let me tell you, they will go after jpmorgan first. but they're going after your firms next. thanks for being with us tonight. gentlemen, i appreciate the spirited debate. have a got evening. coming up on "money," the world's most valuable brands are named. they may prove ideal forecaster for a company's stock price. we'll tell you who is at top. a top wall street lawyer says the irs targeting scandal. it is not a one-off event. it is the start of an imperial bureaucracy. he is here to explain why? did you ever have too much money? i sure don't. ♪ . all stations come over to mission a for a final go.

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dennis: no matter what time it is, "money" is always on the move. investors, the company named price waterhouse coopers comes after kate tmz esigned after questions about their finances. herbalife its shares climbing almost 10 percent today. his wealth one of $22 million today. much to his chagrin, on the other side of that trade. also making money, investors an clear wire, sprint, its offer t acquire for an extra 14%. shareholders are expected to reject the previous offer, no matter it already owns the majority of the company. more than 4%. who is trying to save money? espn laying off hundreds of its staff. saying it is merely managing costs with the move disney has been imposing division by

division cuts for the past mont as the ssock keeps hitting all-time highs. we see companies being bought and sold. today the annual list of the world's most liable branches out . no word brown ranks companies o their performance, consumer sentiment. perfect combination of big data meets actual brand value. make come as no surprise that apple tops the list despite som pretty rocky stock performance. clearly brand is a lot about th company, including a forecast o the market's performance. ceo joining me now, thank you for starting in coming down. let's start with the top five brands. apple at $185 billion, up 1% from 2012 despite the big slide in stock prices. >> it is quite interesting. lost 30 percent of its market cap, but only 01% gain in brand value which shows you consumers are less fickle than investors.

dennis: now, the number two brand value climbing 5%. which you used to not see advertising anywhere is advertising everywhere. >> there gun ready businesses that were essential to their mission. invested wisely in things like android and media mobile which it was going to be. dennis: ibm down 3%, but still respectable 100 into a billion dollar brand value. >> a hundred year-old brand. it is an interesting contrast between apple and the global, which are relatively young and ibm is still a great brand and has real meaning in the busines to business community. what is hurting them is, perhaps , the rise in procurement . all of the brands took little bit of a pounding this year. dennis: now, let's look at the top five most voluble brands, compared to their markets get because there are some

interesting relationships year. if you looked at mcdonald's, if we do not have this wrong, mcdonald's near 90 billion, of course brand which has left to their market cap of 102 billion. >> super capital-intensive business and a huge amount of the value. he is the power of the brand. what mattel's tops out on is this salience. so top line, so easy to recall, and has been in the right place of the right time for this economy. dennis: we have branded value a a percentage of the total marke cap. apple, the top braniff 45%, mcdonald's some as 90 percent o the market cap of that company is basically the value of that brand. is this because a lot of timbre are pretty much interchangeable? >> i don't think so much that but it has been around so long and has such a firm position in consumers' minds. also, we support their brand more consistently than anyone.

dennis: we also have yahoo rejoining the top 100 list. >> our friend that we just talked about. it makes me pick -- back into the top 100. it is great news, and it is mostly on financial. i think the street has given a big vote of confidence to morrison meyers, r over all of the board, and they're sitting on a ton of cash. dennis: in terms of the brain damage we have no idea what tha company stands for. the ad campaign in teheran a year or two ago where they had guys and fantasy man and in doing this and that, what was that? >> release final check bring some focus back to the brand that predaaes her, but financia values are being rewarded by competency and management firm. dennis: you are awfully good at this. i know why you taking my chair. thank you for being with us. good job. appreciate it. up next, the senate gets its turn set rate irs officials are

verticals. they say they don't know what led to the targeting of conservative groups but one of wall street's most prominent lawyers says it is just the sor of a new imperial bureaucracy. it is not stocks you should be worried about but the bond market because it is about to implode. he is here to explain. pows' of "money" coming up. it's as simple as this. at bny mellon, our business is investments. managing the moving them, makinghework. we oversee 20% of the world's financial assets. and that gives uscale and sight no one else has. vestment management combineds with iestment servicing. bringing t power of investments to people's lives. invested in the world. bny mellon.

how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave pele a sticker and had them show us. we learned a loof us have known someone who's lived wl in their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that sn't changed much is the official retireme age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪

>> i cannot say that i know tha answer. and six months -- >> you have some sense of the office. you've been commissioner for a good number of years. >> i am six months out of office . when i left the ig was looking into this together all of the facts. i've never had the benefit of reading the report, and that is you know, the full accounting o facts that i have at this point. i don't think that i can answer that question. >> and kind a disappointed. you have had time to think abou this. you certainly had more bounce than that. dennis: can you say of the station. facing tough questions today over their targeting of conservative groups applying fo tax-exempt status. not getting any better for the agency. one tea party group says it was started by the irs. taking matters into its own and

then suing the federal agency timing is destitution right has beee violated. of the ira's is more trouble an additional losses frommthe part groups. let's ask why street lawyer mar alonso. what do you think of this lawsuit from the conservative group going after the irs? >> it is not unusual because yo get the right of selective enforcement of claims enjoyed b a lot of people. what is odd about this is that basically this is for white the concept is white conservative groups used to be targeted merely for the fact that they belong to a group tha might have done something wrong. they have done lawsuits and tha is fundamentally against what most people believe should happen. the innocent and not subject. dennis: just because of your political events. i thought you in most cases could not sue the federal

government. why is the lawsuit here allowed? >> the scope of the government' authority is embodied in the constitution. they forced the law unequally, which is not to say that they did because people in porsche's or mustang's or corvettes morally get picked up for speeding more, that doos not mean that they were not speedin it means that there were targeted as a rational basis fo the enforcement if. discrimination is their first a member ideas. if that was the reason comes to this investigation and targetin of these groups. is not constitutional. dennis: you see this as part of the imperial bureaucracy, kind of stepping passed what congres wanted enduing matters into their own hands. >> that is not right. the security of the bureaucracy is not a bad thing and the reason is because it is such a complex system to 11, everythin from space, communications, it is all regulated. there is no guidebook to this maze. dennis: you're saying the regulators are the ones that decide?

>> they know better than congress. congress runs at least the people who work within the government, the regulatory agencies have an idea, and the fact that they go back and fort to industry means that industry can sit there ago, reasonable certainty, we know how to act. the apple tax issue is a perfec example of this simple reason that apple utilized regulations in order not to pay taxes. it was designed. >> that's good bye to the irs for a moment because our government is criminalizing these groups and same era threa to democracy, mr. investigating answered of groups. the epa, after congress refused to pass happens rate, this side that we're going to regulate carbon dioxide emissions which said never done and the clean air act of 1970's. i mean the agency going forward and doing things that congress would not pass the check card, the nationalllabor relations board is installing. how was a good thing? >> there is a certainty. is like working with apple.

windows you can do anything which is give renovation. but there is no certainty that you're not going to crest computer if you market up. however, with apple you know, i i follow these pathways i will have a good result. there are people in business that do that every day and want to make sure that their company's stock closed out. dennis: i know you pretty well, and i don't believe that you ever have been in favor of an imperial bureaucracy you reaching farther than it has been authorized. the reason you like his clients have to hire you guys more to help them navigate this imperia bureaucracy. padding your bank account. >> the actually hire people tha work within the agency, and they're is a search and interes because they all want the syste to work. there are occasions the young political appointees the get into the system, and that is where things go wrong because they take it, all this massive power. and everyone kowtows, every wen i say and do and we just target

those people. that happens everywhere. airport security, space. it is not unusual. however, the big problem with bureaucracy potentially is that is eyefuls because it only deal with that which it knows. when you sit there, i have a ne way to do it. dennis: the answer is usually no . all right, mark alonso, defende of the imperial bureaucracy because you're making money ana bet. thank you for being with us. worried about a bubble for stocks? top analysts say bonds are the real bubble about to burst. we will be joins next, and investors ought to press for that impact. at the end of the day it is all about "money". ♪

thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future...

by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. stead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. thousand of us investing billions. inverything from the best experiences below... we're not simply saluting history... we're making it.

♪ dennis: the bond bubble and ignited a fierce debate on wall street. the investment advisers predict that the coming bond market collapse he, is a real? is he right? and how should investors played? and here with us to pop the

bubble of his idea his a wealth manager at j. h. visor. welcome to the show. michael, let's start with you. you're one of my favorite doomsayers. a new look, hot off the presses. build your case. bond market bubble off. >> the most overpriced, over owned market in american history . 810-year note going back 40 years average interest rate is just over 7% fee. we are under 2%. dennis: that means the price is high. >> exactly. and how that truly plows into bond funds began in december of 2007. talk about supply, the publicly traded, $7 trillion in five years. unbelievable. yet to let the credit risk in the currency risk, not just the inflation. those are not at all reflected in this manipulated market by mr. bernanke.

dennis: okay. tell us why you think he is either wrong or just warily. >> well, as i look at it, his doomsday scenario mayor may not come to pass in the years ahead of us. you know, the graveyards and austria are filled with people who were ready to send. that was a wall street journal editor. relative the current rate on th 10-year which is today 194 reflecting more less the fundamentals of what is going o in the economy and the fed. and i just don't see a global oil by definition, is a multipl of where we would be right now and bond prices. it. >> okay. you would not argue with me tha bond yields are at a record low corrects? >> absolutely not. we are within 30 basis points. >> where is the fed balance

sheet going from 800 billion to 4 trillion by the end of this year? where is that reflected? i'm going to ask you a few questions and then you can answer please. where is it reflected that the u.s. has a record amount of outstanding debt? why do we deserve to have the -- dennis: let him answer. >> if you look at what bill dudley said which is 500 million , for every 500 million in quantitative easing, approximately 50 basis point lower, right now if you use that math on the 17 trillio we are now something on the order of a 4%-set bond rate. so when i looked at is the slac that that represents. in other words, in order to get back to norral fed fund rate in an environment like this that quantitative easing has to be back out, and it will take year to get there, michael.

we don't need anything changing. >> what you're saying is you're not at all concerned, and right %-that. bond market agrees with that is the definition a bubble. in 2007 no one was. >> no. he points out that everyone is now talking about abubble it's not a bubble because no always talking about a bubble of wedtech crash in 2000. more importantly, can there be bond market collapse, bubble burst if theefed and japan and the european central bank continued to buy bonds in this quantitatiie easing? >> let me answer your question. look how far japanese governmen bonds have increased in the pas week? >> i want to let that. i want to answer. in the bond bubble burst? >> absolutely because if you look at what happened if greece italy, ireland, portugal, spain all those bond mmrkets blew up and there was not once major change in policy. >> let me tell you something cirque, america is no greece.

dennis: all right. thank you very much for being with us, gentlemen. up next on "money", it is the putting technique that helped win the masters. the british and u.s. open. so-called anchor putting gettin shelled by gulf officials. this outrage and why you can never rich edson much "money". stay with us. ♪ clients are always learning more

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♪ dennis: tile for fun with spare change. we have monica and blare. first off, golf banning a putting technique that's money, anchoring putting winning the masters and u.s. open, no longer allowed by the two groups that set the rules. what do you think? banned or not? >> well, i know nothing about golf so i'm the wrong person to pine about this, but what i know is that the pga tour has opposed this ban so their last statement was they said they're going to look at this and possibly reassess. you could have a big conflict in the golf world if the pga says we're not going down with this. dennis: it's a cat fight. >> i'm not a great golfer, but don't discredit champions who won in the past few years, but

it's a good rule going forward. the pressure takes off with a putter to the it can be helpful. dennis: when they win the tournament, the only guys using that or everybody can? >> that's why i think it's great going forward, great in the past, but going forward that, you know, this evens the playing field for those who didn't have the opportunity to learn with the belly putter. >> golf is an equipment thing, why men, thee love equipment, buy gear, and i think this forces them to buy more equipment. >> or learn how to play the game, which is what the argument was. we don't want any crutches or strapped to the forearm, belll, whatever it might be, that this is a free motion game. that's the rgument. >> really, only affects 2-4% of golfers. >> yes, but they are winners. >> in the tours, four out of six used that. %-a breakthrough technology from the teenager. an 18-year-old wins the intel

international science and engineering fair with a tiny vice that charges a cell phone in 20-30 seconds which would be nice. what do you say? >> love it on so many levels. first of all, she's a girl. she kicks butt. beat auto1700 contest at that particular times from 70 countries here at home in the u.s., and, by the way, i'm down with the invention, to charge your cell phone in 20 seconds, and lord knows what else we do, car batteries and so much more. dennis: google is trying to reach her, 50 grand, and off to harvard. >> i hope it goes to market or apple goes first and we plug in for longer. dennis: good for her, 18 years old, you had the tumblr guy, high school dropout, 27, i salute her. the watch once lost, now found,

the james bond watch from thunder ball up for auction in kristy's in londoo. it was expected to go for a hundred thousand dollars. blare, what do you think? >> a profit margin, 25 pounds-60,000 pounds, and it makes it cooler, i'll fly to london to get involved. >> they only made one of these watches, only one prototype, and now here it is. it's literally one of a kind. dennis: blair, how can we be sure the watch is the watch they say it is. >> i think they can leave that to the professionals there, and i think it goes for full 6 o despite the criticism. dennis: if you get the watch,

come back. thank you for being with us. that's all the money we have for you. melissa is back tomorrow, and "the willis report" is next. thanks for being with us. ♪ gerri: hello, everyone. i'm gerri willis. tonight, on "the willis report," picking up the pieces in oklahoma. >> everything's gone. gerri: how to make sure your donation goes to those in need. also, the irs on the hot seat again in congress. >> how did this happen? >> mr. chairman, i can't say that i know that answer. >> reporter: as tea party groups protest and file lawsuits. your medical privacy, how to keep your life off the black market. we're on the case tonight on "the willis report." ♪