lou:neil: apple is legally dodgg these challenges. apple has been shifting the blame for years. michele obama had a certain state of the union type of night. i don't know that it was a sudden burst of congressional congress with apple. i do know what precipitated this unconscionable crack down as part of the departed.

tea partiers have never made more sense. let's talk with liz macdonald. reporter: the biggest cash cows overseas for the percentage of corporate tax revenues is basically percentage of all the federal revenues. now, we have senator rand paul, and tim cook should not be sitting across from us. tim cook is upset over laws that congress has written. what we are talking about is a very high corporate tax rate their breaks right up there. they're basically saying this in

argentina. what apple is saying is that the senate has it all wrong. but essentially that the money is kept overseas to support its global sales operation -- the one or 2% rate which they have to negotiate with the country of ireland are in those units are basically 4000 workers, they are not -- neil: it is not part of the cayman islands. it is actually a series of construction. reporter: they said it was if it was a mailbox drop. as you point out, i mean it, it's not. these people in ireland, they oversee our sales. neil: these european activities

go through the court islands. >> eventually they get the iphone tonight has made in china. for example. and in those tales are funneled through the corners. the tax bill is equal to the size of morocco. >> really quickly, because i want you to stay for this next tax rate at the 20till paying for 25% which is above the american average rate of those kinds of companies. >> that's right. an effective rate for most companies. about 21%. neil: dietmar says it is

congress. this would be analogous to me giving dietary advice to folks. one thing that you said in your opening statement is that it encourages them, incentivizes american companies. neil: picky, picky, picky. >> that is an important point. this is exactly what you get from the corporate tax system that everybody agrees on. the president has had three quarter panel is headed by people like paul volcker, this tax system has to go. but this needs to be moved overseas.

in regards to setting up an operation abroad, when the stocks could be here in the united states, paying american workers. i'm going to make a prediction to you. unless we start changing its corporate tax system, you're going to see more and more stories on ménière's. >> to your point, reading the mainstream media, i mean, there might be some creative companies that manage that. but apple was not among them. >> you know, i will tell you something. when you talk to apple, you're absolutely right. so much misreporting end of false and erroneous reporting in the media. this is the story that continuously reporters get it wrong. apple has paid investment taxes on these gains. if they pay local taxes, they could pay $6 billion for in the united states in fiscal 2012. that is my biggest textiles or going to see. the point that have to be made

is that the congress has kept us at 35% and allows all sorts of people in the form of congress to write political favors. neil: he decided that congress is responsible for this complicated method and what it is. so what is going to happen on the? >> lives is exactly right. the tax bill that we just passed in january had the big giveaway for wind farms. lives, one thing that he made a point about is apple wanting to keep that money overseas. i don't believe them when they say that. i believe that they want to bring money back to the united states and reinvested here. reason that they can't do it is that if they bring money back to the united states from 1830 to 35-cent tax.

five or 10% from other smaller companies bring the money back to the united states. we did it once. and it worked. >> okay, the critics said they didn't get as much bang for the buck. i am still mad at you for correctinn me, and i'm still mad at liz macdonald or if she found out that this was ireland that they are talking about. [laughter] out of control. meanwhile, carlos, it is good to have you. he is going to weigh in on all of these aspects. you look at this right now. the company that pays a lot of money in taxes, the folks in congress have provided none of the above. see what they have never had the experience of managing a global

company. but we are constantly behind the times. congress is 50 years behind the tax code. it is a global world. apple has over 60% of their business overseas. this is a dig global example. neil: it was a big issue during the campaign last year. it is all about the understanding. >> we have had thiss3 infrastructure in place since 1980. i think a big mistake, it has been too big and too successful. that is when congress goes after you. that's very scary. neil: oil industry from the biotech industry. >> that's right. >> the american dream is great until you achieve it. then come up watch out. >> i am wondering. let's say apple is coming off as

part of this. they are treated like anonymous. >> they go where they can find the best materials for the low cost, whether they find the best capital for low cost and whether they can manage their tax cost. >> this is part of unintended consequences that are exactly what is happening. that is congress' fault. what made you it, they when the person i was following the law, this is ridiculous. neil: i'm not saying that scandal investigations not worth it or justified, but we lost

that opportunity. do you buy that? >> i think the irs scandal -- i think that is the one that has woken up the whole country this is what governments do. when i want to go after a government. this is worth having. >> as you say,. neil: secretary, thank you so much. all right, carlos rivera. thank you so much.

>> why did you mislead me and my colleagues? >> i did not lie. >> you knew that we had asked. neil: that was the good stuff. wait until the opposition is to the republican house tomorrow. right. but the mosimportant feature of all is... the capital one purchaseraser. i n redeem the doue miles i earned with my venture card to erase recent travel purchases. d th a few clicks, this mission never happened. uh, what's this button do? [ electricity zaps ] ♪ you requested backup? yes. yes i did. what's in your walle

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the fit technology of its kind... mom and dad, i havgreat news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers. neil: the republicans are saying that the chairman is loaded. jack hensley and heads the house financial services committee. it was what stance to be an explosive irs hearing. jack lew and authorities. mr. chairman, what didn't you hear today that you want to get answers from these guys while?

>> well, where do we start? you may have heard. she is pleading the fifth we continue to hear a different story from some of the administration,. neil: the center is really talking. >> we are exposing the source of all this. we still don't know who originally issued the order. who approved this activity the american people were outraged on us. this is the most feared agency of government champing upon our most sacred right. it is a matter of time and chairman darrell issa, which heads up our committee on

oversight you know, it appears that there is a culture to keep bad news from going to the president. nearly any organization says that that is travels fast. it's a in order to insulate them, that is unacceptable. i want to ask the secretary, how about going forward will it will be an acceptable activity now that you are taking over the irs. when you're in charge of the white house for a full year, how could you have not known as? why did you have a culture when such a serious charge was being leveled the were unaware of? neil: you are right that i am no lawyer. but the one thing that struck me as odd, maybe there is a legal rational order, when the white

house chief counsel knows that to say that the irs wass about targeting conservative groups, but does not want to pass it onto the president for fear that he would look like he is immersing and meddling in an issue. i began thinking, what else are they holding off? because i always seem to think that they know everything. this would place the council about him as knowing more stuff than he does. on that level it bothers me. i can understand the legal rationale. the president is hiding something. but it is not as though ignorance is bliss. >> again, the american people wants to know -- why is the chief executive learning about this from the newspaper at the time and the rest of the american people are learning about a? why is it that the house has asked these questions for over

two years. two years, and all they got was stonewalling from the irs. and the president, now the secretary of treasury, jack lew, he says -- neil: maybe you need a special prosecutor. >> okay be one may be the only solution is a special prosecutor. >> well, the house has the authority to subpoena witnesses and again, we will see where this goes with the house ways and means committee and the house oversight committee. that the american people, they are demanding answers. it goes beyond the irs. now the irs is combining with hhs to oversee the affordable care act, also known as obamacare, creating some of the largest databases of individuals out there. neil: you are an encyclopedia about the spirit that the health and human services they have set up private company. including the johnson foundation to pay for promoting a law that

might have gone against that law. so it is a mess. >> it is a total mess. we are not getting answers from the administration. and we will get answers. there will have to be accountability. i think the american people are waking up to the fact that this is really the case of how government can get too big, too expensive, too intrusive, too powerful, and frankly too arrogant for the american people. it is a very big wake-up call. >> i enjoy watching this -uestion. you are relentless, but never obnoxious. i i aspire to that myself. i rarely succeed. very good to see you, sir. >> thank you. neil: they die what they were doing supposed to do. going into the shelters where they had to go. something went wrong. washington wants to spend more washington wants to spend more money making shelters just like? this one when visa signature asked everybo what upgraded experiences really mattered...

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the. neil: many of the other dozens of victims of this week's tornadoes do need to die and many didn't need to join him. they all share the same fate. but aren't shelters supposed to protect you? and they are pouring good money into shelters, they are not really up to snuff to add this appropriate thing. this was the most lethal of all of that.

before we get to the bottom of what went wrong, what team you say to us? >> it is a war assessment. we had architects, engineers, those designing thh concrete shelters that will withstand the type of wins. there was one house on the hill are the house was gone. there was a concrete shelter in space and templates. there was a well-designed shelter for kids. i hope everyone will look at this. neil: you have to take out much

of the southwest and the middle part of the country. i don't know what the answer is. if we have to build stronger facilities, are we up been able to do that? i think so. when you see the devastation like this, you see the lives lost. you know, it's important that when you buildda safe room or a shelter, it is designed to withstand the force of the wind. i think that sometimes that is something that we need to rebuild, i think that people's lives will be saved the. neil: are the ones getting to the point where it is a repeated nature close to vest back to

back a little bit more than 20 hours later, it is still tough. >> yes, it would be. i know that. they took advantage of that time. but it is a wise thing to do. you know, we are spending more and more events.

neil: director, we thank you very much. well, cliff clayton and michael bloomberg. same page. colleges for chums. nagegement &t servicing, giving us unique insights ich help uattract the industry's brightest minds o create powerful strategies for untry's investments which are used to build ns to build more bright mds. invested in the world. bny mellon. ...amelia... ne and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with tt: instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyon

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neil: who needs to be like mike?

he is being questioned by mike. >> my impression of cliff clavin. john ratzenberger. thank you for joining us. college is not always the way to go, john set your spring next generation of much-needed mechanics and electricians and plumbers, while a very short supply in this country. as you point out, they are across the country. >> the average age is 58 years old. people who can actually build step.

>> he is acknowledging that that is a lack enact a threat, i think he understands infrastructure. when you think of all the work that has to go into the water system, he knows how difficult it is to get the heavy machine operators and the welders. i think that is probably where it comes from. you can't graduate from high school and decide to go to this college. age.have to start at a young so it is grammar school, middle school. they have to reinstate shop courses. so we could graduate with the knowledge of what is a monkey wrench and what is a socket wrench. neil: what it is a monkey wrench? spirit is what monkeys use. [laughter] neil: you and i were talking about this last time. in other countries, they actually value certain things. in germany, mechanics are held up to be like doctors.

>> they are the cornerstone of europe are dead because they have never forgotten that. if you graduate from a technical school, you get the same amount of dignity and respect as if you are a brain surgeon or a stockbroker through and they have made their cards so complicated that they are the only ones that can fix them, which is very good smart strategy. >> okay. neil: what do you think happens now? colleges, tuitions, things are out of whack. some of them can't find students. why do you think that there has been a protest on the part of students and parents? and where are those kids going? what they give up on higher learning altogether, even if it is going to special basic training schools? >> then we are in big trouble. kids graduate from high school. the man who runs an aircraft

company says that kids come to him and he can't read a simple ruler. so that is where you used to learn how to measure the. neil: why did we give that up? >> i think it was political correctness and had a lot to do with it. because girl should be in the kitchen and boys should be macho. %-so i take the blame for it off the. neil: i'm just wondering if it's too late. given what has been happening and all of these things, it is too late. we can't do that back. >> we could look into a third world reality. what happens? to go to a dirt world, is the likely twin were? is the hot water going to come on? that's because you don't have the people that know how to make

it work. when we lose that, then we slip into that. i think that there is enough people out there with a willingness. and parents have to realize that it is okay if your son or daughter want to be electricians. it's okky. neil: my electrician has people. >> that's right. i know a guy who runs a company who hires argentina welders. neil: is that so? neil:? >> he does. i've heard that before. because he can't find welders. when you think of the shipbuilders -- you know, the we are basically a nation of tinkerers. thomas edison, henry ford, i can go back even further than that. leonardo da vinci, bloomberg, copernicus, as children they were all tinkerers.

they were allowed to go outside and fiddle with things. curiosity was encouraged. as a matter fact, the best army officers come out performs is what my friend says he won is that so? >> when something goes awry, you're not going to call 1-800-fix my roof. what help me find someone to fix this fence. you have to do it and do it quickly. and you have used unrelated objects to fix that. that is the thinking that you need as an army officer. as the captain of the ship. neil: you are absolutely right. you still hold the pics or record for being part of this film. is that right? >> yes, and we have another one coming out. neil: all of this stuff, that's right. it is evil.

>> i have done that. a 5-year-old kindergarten kid is saying, which way is the cafeteria? [laughter] neil: my little guy would say hey, wait a minute. [laughter] oh, my goodness. [laughter] >> go eat your asparagus. [laughter] neil: you are really a good guy, john. a great actor and entrepreneur. meanwhile, from microsoft xbox, it marks the spot. how a game system has turned out ? we talk about it again at i know. don't worry, have cancelled your old card. great. thank you. in addition to us monitoring your accounts for unusual activity,

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it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people stt their business and launch their dream go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a realit at legalzoom.com put the law on your side. neil: grab a drink and grabbed a

tool. my next guest talks about microsoft. they are not dead at all. they compete with all of those handheld gadget that are all the rage today. dave, that has a lot of folks this wouldn't be what it is without it. >> i will say this. i have lost about an hour of the radio show today. my sense is that the gaming world is moving in the something that my technology journalist brother has written a lot about. call fidelity versus convenient. it is something intense and cool, convenient come on be for something easy. what is happening in the gaming world is that mobile devices are starting to be the ones to

provide easy access gaming. if you watch this, they are talking about an enormous amount, talking about new technology is so good that you can see the arm hairs in the call of duty. i mean, is that going to sell our products? it is cool, but i think that it is being aimed increasingly at the very intense high fidelity experiences. neil: this is part of the business that is still doing okay. but they can't hang their hat on ttat, can they? >> well, no, they can't. if they get this right, they can at least extend the brand, which it does look like. xbox does fit the huge niche in the gleaming world. let's be honest, for parents

everywhere, they like to buy xbox for their children because they put their children in front -f it good they did a really good workout. i go home and iwith my nieces. the 45 minute aerobic exercise. neil: we will be on their again with your friends, and then their friends parents get upset. it's not that. anyway, urban outfitters urging customers at its williamsburg store to belly up to the bar and keep buying. just as tommy bahamas has also discovered, keeping customers buying. what do you think? >> you know, wedding dresses come, when your mother went to buy wedding dreeses, you make a little champagne and then you try on dresses and you don't find what cost. >> it really does make sense. very smart move into this area.

>> i don't know. what do you think, they've? >> i think if you get under the hood, traditional retail, brick and mortar retail is suffering. you have to find what things they can do better that you can do online. part of it strikes me as if your member a decade ago, the whole entertainment phenomenon. were they doing needing to do more than just give you food. here they are saying we are going to give you something you can't get on amazon. on amazon, they can't do a marquee. here's one, we are going to make the in-person experience meaningful and differentiated. it is not a bad idea to be on the whole dying in theater thing, i thought it was great but then i decided it wasn't. that's just me. meanwhile, the third issue is the housing movement. home depot proves that. they are having a housing boom sale. or is this post hurricane victims that are coming to this? >> well, i think this is

something bigger. this is let's do what we can to try to jumpstart the economy. this is a little bit like lighting a leading cigarette with a flamethrower. they are going to see if we can get this thing started again and heaven help us if we can't. if we do it exactly right, then she is happy and i have done a good thing. but it is hard to hit the very end of that target. that is where our friends mr. ben bernanke and company -- that is what they are trying to do simple evening, tom? >> i think it's a it would last. i think it really good. home depot during the last downturn -- they did what all companies need to do. they looked look at their business and they made hard choices or the revamped supply chains, the revamped customer experience. they made more customer focused changes. it's very important in helping them go forward. neil: you guys are great. not that you're not always great.

but especially today. the government likes to snoop on people. nat i am surprised by google ani horizon and how they often let the government do it. we have that next. rify a lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capte. the most innovative softwa on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyo it. siemens. answers. but we can sll help you see your bigicture. with the fidelity guided portfolio summary, you choose which accounts ttrack and use fidelity's analytics to spot trends, all in onelace. i'm meredith stoddard and i helped create the fidelity guided portfolio summary. it'sne more innovave reason

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neil: now we know it is not a big surprise. the government likes to snoop. reporters like james rosen and others. to get those, uncle sam has to go through companies like horizon and google and get their permission. more often than not, they often say go ahead, have at it. to the judge, they say they've had enough of it or it and he wants to put a stop to it andrew napolitano joins us now. >> there's a couple ways that the government can get e-mails for the james rosen case, he

went to the judge and got a search warrant. in order to do so company misled the judge by telling him that they were involved in criminal activity. the fbi has resumed that prosecutors have drafted the affidavit and the law is that if a reporter asks the source for confidential information, no crime committed, if the source of a state department employee, by way of example, gives information to the reporters, the crime is the state department of in place for stealing and not the others were receiving. they made it very clear that reporters can ask for or was it were possessed and even publish secret material as long as it is in the public interest. so when the government prosecutors and fbi agents told a federal judge the james rosen is involved in the theft of government secrets, that was wrong. neil: they didn't even say that we suspect that. >> the the search warrant never

should've been signed. we don't know exactly how the government got those materials. neil: we do know that they get a lot of information. sometimes you have to go to the companies. others say, all right,. >> this is the resisting of the government more than frighten some of the others. but you show up in california. but a piece of paper, looking for the neil cavuto's e-mails and google says go find it. you are into building the size of three football fields. you don't know where rectifying that. would come in handy. google lets the federal agents do the work for them. neil: is not where we are going? >> yes. unfortunately that is where we are going..3 >> what happens to the company that says no, we are not goinn to do that? >> when the bush administration approached the five telecoms in

the early part of the last decade and said let us snoop on your clients. one company said no. the others said yes. what happened to the ceo of qwest? they did some insider trading. conviction overturned, retry, reconnected. >> the bush administration -- if they had gone there. neil: if it hadn't been revealed at the time, would they have been caught? >> i don't think so. letting the bush administrations browner climate. qwest was not afraid. the others were afraid, and they went along with it. neil: a lot of people say, sure, whatever you want. >> the government is asking you to break laws that the government has trouble enforcing. if google were to take it

whatever you want without a search warrant, google would be violating privacy laws and the government would be helping them to commit fraud. neil: but what the government wants it. >> that is an argument that a lot of the make. google has resisted government more than any other internet companies. >> more often does it not do more than what it doesn't? >> i don't know the answer to that. i will turn the government is getting more and more information. neil: that is scary stuff. judge, i thank you very much. all right, after getting back, get this. tea partiers, and contrary to the irises wish it, they are very much alive and well cattle feed and beef. bny llon turns inshts like these into powerful invement strategies.

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but fe alive. the c-class is no exception. it's a mercedes-benz, through and through. see your authorized mercedes-benz aler for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial services. to fly home for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mher! traveng is easy with the venture rd because you can fly airline anytime. two words. ouble miles! this guy can act. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys! nd with double miles you can actuay use, you never miss the fun. beard growing conte and go! ♪ win! has in your wallet? neil: the irs. conservative groups right out of existence. singling out the tax status.

now it is tea partiers who are flexing their muscles. and the irs is running for cover. what exactly happened? let's ask david and jedediah bila and julie burzynski. >> i think there has been a question for a long time. i've been on the panels before asking if the tea party said. i said that i don't think so and i think that they will come out. this is a key issue for them. these conservative groups had business practices that were hindered. they are saying that this is the overreach of government we have been battling against for the longest time. with the irs thing they are responsible for obamacare implementation. we are talking about worst-case scenario and they are articulating this to the public. neil: the woman who is overseeing this division that included the, you know, groups.

she will be pleading the fifth mile. >> absolutely. what happens is egregious. you don't have to be a liberal or conservative to agree that this is not something you need to do. our government cannot do this. the tea party has a tendency distortive operate and they tend to get themselves ginned up. but you know, it if you look at the polls today, obama is doing a little bit better than before at these candidates began. neil: some of the same polls say three out of four americans don't like this irs stopped. they haven't put it to the president yet. but they could, and that could change everything. especially when counsel isn't telling them about what the inspector general is saying. it is complicating the

administration's argument to be proactive when it is now defending ignorance. >> i think the fact that they are pleading the fifth, is a bad sign for the obama administratiin are it is even more problematic than we probably know. it also means that we should eventually cut a deal and get some kind of immunity to be forthcoming. but the argument that the obama administration used is that we didn't know that this is happening. we were not orchestrating this. if that was the case, wouldn't this be part of this? wire all of these pieces on tea party groups, conservative groups, they are donors who want to contribute to conservative causes. that is the most troublesome of all. >> it was politically motivated at best in the white house. what you make of that?

liberal groups have been targeting this before as well. but the point is that it could be rogue operators who are encouraging what they feel that the president might like without the president doing anything. >> my question is accountability. i want whoever is responsible to be held accountable. >> who is responsible? smack the problem is when we have these hearings. you get no answers. you'd absolutely no answers. >> it is astonishing to me. what is astonishing to me is that when these hearings come forth, they have time to come and think aaout it. they have plenty of time to dig into their memory. they can't recall why they did this and implemented this, disclosing information to congress that they had in their hand at the time. >> you are talking about people that have nothing to do with the white house. there's a big difference.

neil: you think that they could do this on the scale of this magnitude? >> sure. why not? >> you are suggesting that barack obama -- neil: no, no, i am not. don't to be asking independently within the agency and leaving it at that. >> okay. the issue is that they were created by citizens united. and he saw the president make a made a big deal of the state of the union address in if you are like-minded, wouldn't you say that the boss would like this? >> yes, i think that they actually need to be looked at. >> they took a leap. %-what you think is the best tet of the irs. >> let me ask you a question. the president or his people, sending signals to the irs to break as first amendment rights. where the irs being a world

agency that is politically motivated against americans who are conservative area i don't think one is better than the other. >> that's a very good point. neil: here is the one thing i have a tough time with. the best defense is ignorance, on. you didn't know what was so much for hands-on leadership. >> exactly. that is what people are starting to realize. where is the leadership in this administration? the problem is also that if you look at benghazi, while the scandals that are coming out right now, it seems to me that barack obama's last know about a lot of things. >> this is going to be indictment on these leaders. >> if you're the president, we have any kind of gentlest behavior, chances are that you have this problem. neil: you are the president and you are supposed to be the boss. >> he said he knew nothing about it.

intelligence, the cia, over and over and over. guys come in the meantime, we will see what happens. tonight, on "the wilis eport," picking up the pieces in oklahoma. >> everything's one. gerri: how to make sure your doation goes thosenneed. also, the irs on th ho seat again in congress. >> how did this happen? >> mr. chairman, i can't say at i know that answer. >> reporter: as tea party gups protest and file lawsuits. your medical privacy, how to keep your life off the black market. we're on the case toight o "the willis report." ♪