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lou:neil: apple is legallydodgig these challenges. apple has been shifting the blame for years. michele obama had a certain state of the union type of night. i do't know that it was a sudden burst of congressional ngress with apple. i do know what precipitated this unconscionable crack own as part of the departed.

tea partiers have neve made more sense. let's talk with liz macdold. reporter: the biggest cash cows overseas for the percentage of corporate tax revenues is basically percentage of all the federal revenues. now, we have senato rand paul, and tim cook should not be sitting across fm us. timcook is upset over aws that ngress has written. what we are talking about is a very high corporate tax rate their eaks right up there. they're basically saying this in argentin

what apple is saying is that the senate has it all wrong. but essentially that the money is kept overseas to supportts global sales operation -- the one or 2% rate which they ha to negotiate with the country of ireld are in those units are basically 4000 workers, they are not -- neil: it is not part of th cayman islands. is tually a series of construction. reporter they said it was if it was a mailbox drop. as you point ou i mean it, it's not. these people in ireland, they oversee our sales. neil: these european activitie

go through the court isnds. >> eventually they get the iphone tonight has made in china. for example. and in those tales are funneled through the corners. e tax bill is equal to the size of morocco. >> really quickly, becse i want you to stay for this next segment, apple is still paying an effective tax rate atthe 20 for 25% which is above the american aeragerate of those kinds of companies. >> that's right. anffective rate for most companies. about 21%. neil: dietmar says t is

congress. this would be analogous to me giving dietary advice to folks. one thing that you said in your opening statement is that it encourages them, incentivizes american companies. neil: picky, picky picky. >> that is an important point. this is exctly what you get from the corporate taxystem that everybody agrees on. the president hs had three quarter panel is headed by people like paul volcker, this tax system has to go. but this needs to be moved overseas.

in regards to setting p an operation abroad, when the stocks could be here in the united states, paying american workers. i'm going to make a prediction to you. unless we start changing its coorate tax syst, you're going to see more and more stories ménière's. >> to your point, reading the mainstream media, i mean, there might be some creative companies that manage that. but ple was t amg them. >> you know, will tell you somethin when you talk to apple, you're absolutely right. so much misreporting end of false and erroneous reporting in the media. this is e story that continuously reporters get i wrong. apple s paid investment taxes on these gains. if they pay local taxes, they pay $6 billion for in the united states in fiscal 2012. thats my biggest txtiles or going to see. the point that have to be made

is that the ngress has kept us at5% and allows all sorts of peop in the form of congress to write political favors. neil: he decided that conress is responsible for this complicated methodnd what it is. so what is going to happen on the? >> lives is exactly right. the tax ll that we just pasd in january had the big giveaway for wind farms. lives, one hing that he made a point about is apple wanting to keep that money overseas. i don't believthem when they say that. i believe that they want to bring money backo e united states and reinvested here. reason that they can't do it is that if they bring money back to the united states from 1830 to 35-cent tax.

five or 10% from other smaller companies brinthe money back to the united states. we did it once. and it worked. >>kay, the critics said they didn't get as much ban for the buck. i am still mad at youor correctinn me, and i'm still mad at liz macdonald or if she found out that ts was ireland that they are tking abut. [laughter] out of control. meanwhile, carlos, it is good to have y. he is going to weigh in on all of these aspects. you look at this right now. the company that pays a lot f money in taxes, the folks in congress he provided none of th above. see what they have never had the experience ofanaging a global

mpany. but we are constantly behind the times. congress is 50 years behind the tax code. it is a global world. apple has over 60% of their siness overseas. this is adig global examp. neil: it was a big issue during the campaign last year. it isall about the unrstanding. >> we have had thiss3 inastructure inplace since 1980. i think a big mistake, it has been too big and too successful. that is when congress goes after you. that's very scary. nl: oil industry from the biotech idustry. >> thas right. >> the american dream is great until you achieve it. then ce up watch out. >> i am wodering. let's say apple is coming off as

part of this. they are treated like anonymous. >> they go where they can find the best materials r the low cost, whether they find the best capital for low cost and whether they can manage their tax cost. >> this is part of unintended consequences that are exactly what is happening. that is congress' fault. what made you it, they when the person i was following the law, this is ridiculous. neil: i'm not saying tht scandal vestigatns not worth it or justified, but welost that opportunity.

do you buy that? >> i think theirsscandal -- i thinkhat is the one that has woken up the whole country this ishat governments do. when i want to go after a government. this is worth having. >> as you say,. neil: secretary, thank you so much. all right, carlos rivera. thank you so much.

>> why did you misleade and my colleagues? >> i did not lie. >> you knew that we had asked. neil: that was the good suff. wait until the opposition is to the republican house the boys used double miles from their capital one venture card to fly ho for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mother! traveling is easy witthe venture card because you can fly airline anytime. two words. double miles! this guy can act. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys

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neil: the republicans are saying that the chairman is loaded. ja hensley and heads the house financial services committee. it wa what stance to be an explosive irs hearing. jack lew and authorities. mr. chairman, what didn't you hear today that you wantto get answers from these guys whle?

>> well, where do wetart? you may have heard. she is pleading the fifth we continue thear a different story from some of the administration,. neil: the center is really talking. >> we are exposing the source of all this. wetill don't know who originally issued the order. who approved this activity the american people were outraged on us. this is the most feared agency of government amping upon our most sacred right. it is a matter of time and chairman darrell issa, whh heads up our committ on

oversight you know, it appears that there is a culture to keep bad ws from going to the prident. nearly any organization says that that istravels fast. it's a in order insula em, that is unacceptable. i want to ask the sectary, how about going forward will it will be an acceptable activity now that you are taking over th irs. when you're in charge of th white house r a full year, how could you haveot known as? why did you hav a culture when such a serious charge was being leveled the were unaware of? neil: you are righthat i am n lawy. but the one thing that struck me as odd, maybe there is a legal rational order, when the white

house chief counsel knows that to say that the irs wass about targeting conservative groups, but does not want to ppassit onto the president forear that he would look like he is immersing and meddling in an issue. i began thinking, what else are they holdingff? because always seem to thik that ty kw evrying. this would place the council about him as knowing more stuff thane does. on that level it bothers me. i can understand thlegal ratitionale. the president is hidin something. but it is not as though ignorance is bliss. >> again, the american people wantto know -- why is the chief executive learning about this from the newspaper at the time an the rest of the american ople are learning about a? why is it that the house has asked these questis for over two years.

two ars, and all they got was stonewalling from the irs. and the president, now the secretary of trasury, jack lew, hesays -- neil: maybe you need a special prosecutor. >> okay be one may be the only solution is a special prosecutor. >> well, the house h the authority to ubpoena witnesses and again, we will see where this goe with thehouse ways and means committee and the house oversight committee. that the american people, they are demanding aners. it goes beyond the irs. now the irs is combining with hhs to oversee the affordable care act, also known as obamare, creating some of the largest databases of individuals out there. neil: you are an encyopedia about the spirit that the health anhuman services they have set up private copany. including the johnson foundation pay for promoting a la that

might have gone against that law. so it is a mess. >> it is a total me. we are not getting answers from the administration. and we will get answers. there will have to be accountability. i think the american pple are waking up to the fact that this is really the se of how government can get too big, too expensive, too intrusive, too powerful, and frankly too arrogant for the american people. it is a very big wake-up call. >> i enjoy watching this -uestion. you are relentless, but never obnoxious. ii aspire to that myself. i rarely succeed. very good to see you, sir. >> thank you. neil: they die what they were doing supposed to do. going into the shlters where they had to go. something went wng. washington wants to spend more thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't cr the future...

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the. neil: many of the other dozens of victims of this eek's tornadoes do neeto die and many didn't need to join him. they all share the same fate. but aren't shelters supposed to protect you? and they are pouring good mony into shelters, they e not really up to snuff to add this appropriate thing. this was the most lethal of all of that.

before we get to the bottomof what went wron what team you say to us? >> it is a war asessment. we ha architects, engineers, those designing thh concrete sheltersthat will withstand the type ofwins. there was one house on the hill are the house was gone. ththere was a concrete shelter n space and templates. there was a well-designed shelter for kids. i pe everyoneill look at this. ne: you have to take out much

of the southwest and the mdle part of the country. i don't know what the answer is. if we have to build stronger facilities, are we up been able to do tat? i think so. when you see the devastatn like this, you see the lives lo. you kn, t'simportant tha when you builda safe room or a shelter, it is digned to withstand the force of the wind i think that sometis thatis something th we need to rebuild, i tnk that people's lives will be saved the. neil: are the ones getting to the point where it is a repeated nature close to vest back to

back a little bit more tan 20 hours later, it is still tough. >> yes, it would be. i know that. they took advanta of that time. but it is a wise thing to d you know, we are spending more and more events.

neil: director, we thank you very much. well, cliff clayton and michael bloomberg. same page. we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the olst person you'venown? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learnea lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is howo you make su you have the money you need to eoy all of these years. ♪ [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i wanto treat mo dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to takeour business? i nd help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting

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neil: who needs to be like mike

he is being questioned by mike. >> myimpression of cliff clavin. john ratzenberger. thank you for joining us. college is not always the way to go, john set your spring next generation of much-needed mechanics and electricians and plumbers,while a very short supply in this country. as you point out, they ae across the country. >> the average age is 58 years old. people who can actually build ep.

>> he is acknowledging that that is a lack enact a threat, i think he understands infrastructure. when you think of all the work that has to go into the water system, he knows how difficult it is to get the heavy machine operators and thewelders. i think that is probably where it comes from. you n't graduate from high school and decide to go to this college. age.have to start at a young so it is grammar school, middle school. they have to reinstate shop courses. so we could graduate with th knowledge of what is a monkey wrench and what is a socket wrench. neil: what itis a monkey wrench? spirit is what monkeys use. [laughter] neil: you and i were talking about this last time. in other countries, they actually value certain things. in germany, mechanics are held up to be like doctors.

>> they are the cornetone of europe are dead because they have never forgotten that. if you graduate from a technical school, you get the same amount of dignity and respect as ifyou are a braiain surgeon or a stockbror through and they have me their cards so complited thheare the only ones that can fix them, which is very good smart strategy. >>kay. neil: what do you think happs now? colleges, tuitions, things a out of wack. some of them can't find students. why do you thihat there has been a protest on the part of students and parents? and where are those kids going? wh they give up on higher learng altogether, even if it is going to special basic training schools? >> then we are in big trouble. kids gduate from highschool. the man who runs an aircraft

company says that kids com to him and he can't read a simple ruler. so that is whe you used to learn how to measure the. neil: why did we give that up? >> i think it was political correctness and had a lot to do with it. because girl should be in the kitchen and boys should be macho. %-so i take the blame for it off the. neil: i'm just wondering if 's too late. given what has been happening and all of thesethings, it is too late. we can't do that back. >> we could look into third world reality. what happens? to go to a dirt world, is the likely twin were? is the hot wateroing to come on? that's because you don't have the people that know how to ma

it work. when we lose that, th we slip into that. i think that there is enough people out there with a willingness. and parents have to realize that it is okay if your son or daughter want to be electricians. it's okky. neil: myelectrician has people. >> that's right. i know a guy who runs a company who hires argentina welders. neil: is tt so? neil:? >> he does. i've heard that before. because he can't find welders. when you think of the shipbuilders -- you know, the we are basically a nation of tinkerers. thomas ediso henry ford, i can back even further tn that. leonardoa vinci, bloomberg, copernicus, as children they were all tinkerers.

they were allowed to go outside and fiddle witthings. riosity was encouraged. as a matter fact, the best army officers come out performs is what my friend says he won is that s? >> when something goes awry, you're not going to call 1-800-fix my roof. what help me find someone to fix this fence. you have to do it and do it quickly. and you have used unrated objects to fix that. that is the thinking that you needs an army officer. as the captain of the ship. neil: you are absolutely right. you still hold the pics or record for being part of this film. is that right? >> yes, and we have another one coming ot. neil: all ofthis stuff, that's right. it is evil.

>> i have done that. a 5-year-old kindergarten kid is saying, which way is the cafeteria? [lghter] neil: my little guy would say hey, wait ainute. [laughter] oh, my goodness. [laughter] >> go eat your asparagus. [laughter] neil: you are really a good guy, john. a great actor and entrepreur. meanwhile, from microsoft xbox, it marks the spot. how a game sstem has bny mellon combines investment management & investment servicing, giving us unique insigs which help us attract thindustrs who create powerful strategies for a country's investments

which are used to build new schools to build more bright minds. invested in the world. bny mellon. all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point o one two. rify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing bfor capture. the most innovativesoftware on . dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers. welwhere new york state is. investing one billion dollars to attract and gr business. where mpanies like geico are investin technology & finance. welcome to the state where cuttg taxes for business... is our business. welcome to t new buffalo.

welcome to the new buffalo. welcome to the new buffalo. new york state is throwing. out the old rule book to give your business a new edge, the edge you c only get in new york state. to grow our start your business, visit thenewny.com ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80housand of us investing billions... in everything from the bes experiences low... to the finest comforts ave. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. neil: grab a drink and abbed a

tool. my next guest talks about microsoft. they are not dead at al. they compete with all of those handld gadget thatre all the rage today. dave, that has a lot of folks this wouldn't be what it is wiout it. >> i will say is. i he lost about an hour of the radishow today. my sense is that the gaming worlis moving in the something that my technology journalist brother has written a lot about. call fidelity versus convenient. it is something intense and co, convenient come on be for something easy. what is happening in the gaming world is that mobile devices are starting to be te ones to

provide easy access gaming. if you watch this, they are talking about an enormous amnt, talking about new technologys so good that you can e the arm hairs in the call of duty. i mean, is that goingto sell our products? it is cool, but i think that it is being aimed increasingly at the very intense high fidelity expeences. neil: this is pa of the business that is still doing okay. but they can't hang their hat on ttat, cathey? >> well, no, they can't. if they get this right, they can at least extd the brand, which it does look lik xbox does fit the hue niche in the gleaming world. let's be onest, for pants

everywhere, they like to buy xbox for their children because they put their children in fro -f it od hey did a really good workout. i go hom and i hang out with my nieces. the 45 minute robic exercise. neil: we will be on ther again with your friends, and then their friends parents get upset. it's not that. anyw, urban outfitters urging customers at its williamsburg store to belly up to the bar and keep buying. just as tommy bahamas has also discovered, keeping customers buying. what do you think? >> you know, weding dresses come, when your mother went to buy wedding dreeses,you make a little champagne and then you try on dresses and you don't find what cost. >> it really doemake sense. very smart me into this area.

>> i don't know. what do you think, they've? >> i tnk if you get under the hood, traditional retail, brick and mortar retail is suffering. you have to find what thing they can dbetter that you can do online. part of it strikes me as if your member a decade ago, the whole entertainment phenomenon. were they doing needing to do more than just give you food. here they are saying we are going to give you somethingyou can't get on amazon. on amazon, they can't do a marquee. here's one, we are goi to make the in-person experience meangful and differentiated. it is not a bad idea to be on the whole dying itheater thing, i thought it was great but then i decidedt wasn't. that's jt . meanwhile, thehird issue is the housing movemen home depot proves that. they are having a housinboom sale. or is this po hurricane victims that a coming to this? >> well, ihink this is something bigger.

this is let's d what we can to try to jumpstart the economy. this is a little bit like lighting a leading cigarette with a flamethrowe. they are going to see if we can get this thing started again and heaven help us if we can't. if we do it exactlyn she is happy and i have done a good thing. but it is hard to hit the very end of that target. that is where our friends mr. ben beanke and company -- thats what they are trying to simple evening, t? >> i think it's a it would last. i think it really good. home depot during the last downturn -- they did what all companies need to do. they looked look at their busine a they made hard choices or the revped suppy chains, the revamped customer experience. they made more customer fcused changes. it's very important in helping them go foward. neil: you guys are great. not that you're not always great.

but especially toda the government likes to snoop on people. with the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewas for his small business take theheseags to rm 12 please. [ garth ] bjors small busiss earns double miles on every purchase every day. pruce livery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve limited rerd here's yo wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button? over any other carrier? many choose us because we have. others, because ofur reputation for reliability. or mbe it's because we've received jd power and associates' customer servi award 4x in a row.

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neil: nowe know it is not a big surprise. the government likes to soop. reporterlike jmes rosen and otrs. to get thos, uncle sam has to go through companies like horizon and google and get their permission. more often than not, they often say go ahead, have at it to the judge, theyay they've had enough of it or it and he wants to put a stop to it andrew napolino joins us now. >> there's a cole ways that the government can get e-mails for the james rosen ase, he

went to the judge and got a search warrant. in orde to do so company misled the judge by telli him that they were involved in crinal activity. the fbi has resumed that prosecutors have drafted the affidavit and the law is that if a reporter asks thesoue for confidential information, no crime commid, if the source of a state department employee, by way o example, gives information to the reporters, the crime is the state department of in place for stealing and not the others were receiving. they made it very clear that reporters can ask for or was it were possessed and even publish secret mateal as ng as it is in the public interest. so when the government prosecutors and fbi agents told a federal judge the james rosen is involved in the theft of gornment secrets, that was wrong. neil: tey didn'teven say that we suspect that. >> the the search warrant never

should've been signed. we don't know exactly how t government gotthose materials. neil: we do know that ey get a lot of information. sometimes you have to go to the companies. others say, all right,. >> this is the resisting of the government more than fghten some of the others. but you show up in california. but a piece of paper, looking for the neil cavuto's eails and google says go find it. you are into building the size of three fool fields. yodon't know where rectifying at. would come in handy. goog lets the federal agents do the work for them. neil: is not where we are going? >>es. unfortunately that is where we are going..3 >> what happens to the company that says no, we are not goinn too that? >> when the bush adminiration aproached the five telecoms in

the early part of the last decade and said let us snoop on your clients. on company said no. the others said yes. what happed to the ceo of qwest? they did some insidertrading. conviction overturned,etry, reconnected. >> the bush administration-- if they had gone there. neil: if it hadn't been revealed at the time, would they have been caught? >> i don't think so. letting the bush administrations browner climate. qwest was not afraid. e others weeafraid, and they we along with it. neil a lot of people say, sure, whatever y want. >> the government is asking you to break laws that the government has trole enforcing. if google were to take it

whatever you want without a search warrant, google wld be violating privacy ls and the government would be helpg them commit raud. neil: but what the government wants it. >> that is an argument that a lot of the make. google has resisted government more than any other internet companies. >> more often does it not do more than what it doesn't? >> i don't know the answerto that. i will turn the government is getting more and more informatioion. neil: that is sry stuff. judge, i thank you very much. l right, after gettinback, get this. tea partiers, and contrary to tea partiers, and contrary to the irises wishthe ocean gets w. the peruvian anchovy harvest suffers. it raises the price of fishmeal, cattle fd and beef. bny mell turns insights like these into powerful investment strategies.

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...amelia... il and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the pt. and with that: yore history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us vesting b. in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... to the we're making it.above. neil: the irs. conservative group right out of existence. singling out the tax status.

now it is tea partiers who are flexing their muscles. and the irs is running for cover. what exactly happed? let's ask david and jedediah bila and julie burynski. >> i think there has been a question for a long time. i've been on the panels before asking if the tea party said. i said that i don't think so and i think that ty will come out. this is a key issue for them. these conservative groups had business practices that were hindered. they are saying that this is the overreach of government we have been battling against for the longest time. with the irs thing they are responsible for bamacare implementation. we ae talking about worst-cas scenario and they are articulating this to the pubic. neil: the woman who is overseeing this division that included the, you know, groups.

she will be pleading the fifth mile. >> absolutely. what happe is egregious. you don't have to be a liberal oronservativto agree that this is not something you need to do. our government cannot do this. the tea party has a tendency distortive operate and they tend to get themselves ginned up. but you know,it if you look at the polls today, obama is doing a little bit better than before at these candidates began. neil: some of the same polls say three out of four americans don't like this s stoped. they haven't p it to e president yet. but they could, and that could change everything. especially when counsel ist telling them about at the inspector general is saying. it is complicating the

administration's argument to be proactive wen it is now defending igorance. >> i think the fact thatthey are pleading the fifth, is a bad sign forhe obama administrati are it is even more problematic than we prably know. it also means that we should eventually cut a deal and get some kind of immunity e forthcing. but the argument that the obama administration used is thawe didn't know that thiis happeng. we were not orchestrating this. if that was the case, wouldn't th be part of this? wire all of these pieces on tea party groups, consertive groups, they are donors who want to contribute to conservative causes. that is the most troublesome of all. >> it was politically motivated at best in the white house. what you make of that?

liberal groups have been targeting this before as well. but the point is thatit could be rogue operators who are encoaging what they feel that the president might like without the president doing anything. >> my question is accountabity. i want whoever is reonsible to be hd accountable. >> who is responsible? smack the problem is when we have these hearings. you get no answers. you'd absolute no answers. >> it astonishing to me. what is astonishing to me is that when these hearings come forth, they have time to come and think aaout it. they have plentyf time to dig into their memory. they can't recall why they did this and implemented this, disclosing information t congress that eyad in their hand at the time. >> you are talking abut people that have nothg to do with the white house. there'bigdifference.

neil: you think that they could do this on the scale of this magnitude? >> sure. y not? >> you are suggesting that bara obama -- neil no, no, i am no. don't to be asking independently within the agey and leaving it at that. >> okay. the issue is that the were created by citizens united. and he saw the psident make a made a big deal of the state of the union address in if you are like-minded, wouldn't you say that the boss would like this? >> yes, i think that they actually need to be looked at. >> they took a leap. %-wh yo thinks the best test of the i. >> let me ask you a question. thpresident orhis peopl sending signals tohe irs to eak as first amendment rits. ere the irs beng a wrld

agency that is politically motivated against americans who are conservative area i don't think one is better than the other. >> that's a very good point. neil: here is the one thing i have a tough te with. the best defense is ignonce, that you didn't know what wa going on. so much f hands-on leadership. >> exactly. thats what pople ar starting to realize. where is the leadership in this administration? the problem is also that if you look at benghazi, while the scandalshat are coming out right now, it sems to me that barack obama's last know about a lot of things. >> this is going to be indictment on these leaders. >> if you're the president, we have any kind of gentlest behavior, chances are that you have ths problem. neil: you are the presidentnd yoare supposed to be the boss. >> heaid he knewothing about it.

intelligence, the cia, over and over and over. guys omen the meantime, we will see whatou tomorrow >> i'm denn kneale in for melissa francis and here is what is money tonight. u.s. senate launchesn asult on apple's tax practice andbillions it has overseas. can tim cook and other ceos stop a t grab by congress? we got the world's most valuable brands. a look behind the go-plated labels. theirvalu cldhow what you is next for their stock prices. stick around for details. >> and who made money today? one party did and hedge fund billionairbill ackman is not happy about it. mo on tt coming up. even when they say it isn't, it is alys about money.