neil: all right, well the president must know, this irs thing, far more terrorizing. welcome, everyone. i'm neil cavuto. whenever your views on the president once again pushing th so-called terrorist camp down, try as the mighty can i shut of these scandals, especially the growing irs mess. word right now that lerner has been put on administrative leave . more than benghazi in the white house talking points to more than the justice department's nipigon reporters, more average americans relate to tax targets than almost any other.

this is the irs, an entity for now that far more americans fear , so it is so and will forever be. no matter how the president might want to change the narrative that things more terrorizing, the reality is for most americans this irs thing right about now is far, far, fa more taxing. i write because rattled the president never saw this one coming but was deliberately kep in the dark. to liz macdonald on why it is important to get to the beginning of this scandal and get it right. therein lies that scenes for a watergate-like scandal in which all parties wrong did pretty much everything wrong. >> it could require special prosecutors. we found to and democrats writing letters, pressuring the irs in 2012 and dating as far

back as 2010. pressuring the irs commissioner to do something, stopping nonprofits from engaging in a - in any political activity, and then it tipped over. neil: making a general statemen about the tea party type groups. revco's the ones that they wanted to go after? >> here are the names. senator carl schumer. very upset. robo letter explaining that the irs is being passively.

neil: that congress was deeply devolved.

then they were nowhere to be found when it all blew up. %-being too aggressive.m for it sounds very much like that. where is this going? >> it is interesting because there will be many hearings as the irs commissioner pleased th fed than we move toward being a more of formation of scandal after scandal after scandal. these hearings are important an are not a part of obstructing our system of government. they're very important as a par of our system of governing in the american people deserve answers and want to know who is responsible and that our government is responding appropriately to all of this. congress is right to review 3 these things. it is just a matter of getting to the bottom of it. >> you know those are some powerful democratic senators you mentioned, are they pushing for more hearings in the senate? >> they should be called in before the hearing, a special

prosecutor should hold them accountable for letters they sent to irs, urging irs to act. they are not above the law. irs is not a denaturallure, not like a sewing machine, it is populated by ho human beings, is workers are getting cut, irs pay is getting cut, irs has been used as a political football, they should have said no congress, we're sending your letters right back to you but they didn't. neil: hadley, you would think someone at irs would say this not else call. >> that is in-- ethical. >> that is interesting, i have been thinking maybe there is something about working in irs that might attract a type of person that believes that big government is a good thing.

we is to question how much money the people work at irs give to -- to. neil: i don't think that is a generally fair statement for irs workers, but i will say, when someone puts under pressure to do something that you know is wrong, we're fingering and targeting a group to lizzy's point, you are losing your morals. >> and there is nothing wrong with the irs clarifying a body of law that governs different organizations. neil: but you better clarify it for all. >> enforce it. >> this is happening during an an election season. so that is why there needs to be a special prosecutor. neil: a lot of committee hearings. >> the tea party said this is what happens with big government, and that is the irony, they were getting inves

investigated for those same issues they brought up. neil: coming to. what did the president know, and when did he know it a damning defense for a president who once prized himself for being hands on, and now he is essentially hands off. glen hubbard on dangers of a president now playinn roll of popeye. what do you make of that? >> we have issues facing the country, these scandals distract us from the purpose issues, with the irs, are very troubling. >> you know, glen, where was this detachment, that president had with this management style he said he never had, he was very involved. in the details of the departments, and could name the names and all details, knew all of the dots and how they

connected. then stuff hit the fan that was not the case, i'm not saying that every president should be on top of every detail, but the job is to big, and the government is so big, that is impossible, this is what happens when it gets this big. >> true that very large governments can be intrusive, but one thing irs scandal said we have a problem if our big tax agency is trying to discourage political competition, the country needs more ideas whether they come from the left, or right to compete for the attention of the american people, those those ideas is very bad. neil: what is it, it happens within agencies, but, where there is a group think that says it is okay, in other words we're getting orders or commands from

senators and congressmen, that we should look at these groups, and no one figures or connects or bothers to connection they are conservative groups, this is not very fair and balanced in this targeting, in fact it is beagling well. where -- it is being illegal what happened? >> we do not know all of the facts as it happened. there are some people who directed the targets of specific groups and will have to wait to get the facts it is important that the tax law be neutral. neil: but, some whistle-blowers, could have connected the dots, but, someone must have said, did you notice they are all conservative groups, and they --

those whistle-blowers, might come forward, for all i know, deals and arrangements have been made. >> we' neutrality. once we have a tax law that should apply equally to all people. the simpler the tax code we have the more efficient tax code we have the less chance we have of this kind of behavior. neil: you are right about that, glen hubbard thank you. >> min my pleasure. neil: tires of china hacking up, and ignoring our empty threats if they keep hacking us. we have a former ambassador, here to tell us, you keep hacking us, china, then we're going to hacu back.

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neil: china keeps hacking and we keep threatening and they keep hacking more. jon huntsman jr., governor, it comes down to fighting fire with fire, but how far, and how hot do the flames get. >> neil, a pleasure to be with you, face the facts, by doing nothing, which has been our mode for 20 years, here is what we pay as a nation, a problem each year roughly equal to level of trade to asian pacific region, 300 million. 300 mil300 billion. the lost intellect rally property, you conclude to secret

sauce of our success to u.s. that for us in terms of level of injury is 300 billion per year, if china, india, russia and others had a level of respect for intellectual property like we have in u.s. we would have added 2.1 million more jobs to our workforce, we have a choice to make we could keep managing status kuo until china tries to get their act together. or we could build muscle around this as a problem do something about it. neil: china -- saying weadock thiwe can dothis coup too. that is a slippery slope isn't

it? >> better to create a regime, put out a report, a private commission with some best leaders, from national security, we spent a whole lear looking at this. there are this things we all the to be doing -- ought to be doing, and making cyber thret hurt. that is access to u.s. market, companies behind it, strengthening itc337 border seizure laws. so we can seize more aggressively. neil: but, we're always on defense. because they own so much of our debt. >> japan -- a lot of countries do. neil: i agree, there is no reason to be on defense, when it can be said china needs us just

as more but we don't play that way. >> tis puts us in an offense of mode, what does china want over next many years, last 20 years they wanted to export in largest market, now they want to invest in u.s. market. we should have restricts against those companies have that have been behind or supporter of intellectual property theft. there are ways to do that aways with security and exchange commission to take companies that want to if public to use that as a cry teriasm there should be a way to look the siveious review process today is restricted to national security concerns. to add ip theft. neil: they will never react to that unless we follow-up. there are companies that feel, they get in their system, chinese, and steal stuff, and hack stuff, and cause a mess. i talked with a high-tech ceo,

said, if he had the tit-for-tat ability, he does, he said there is nothing i want over there nothing i need, there is no secret i want. because, everything they are get they are copying there is no upside for me to hack back. >> getting in a tit-for-tat scenario is a lose-lose longer term. you want to chaage behavior, change command and control which is a coordinated effort. state owned enterprises, are able to work with government. in getting information. is that ises behavior. neil: all that fails. it all fails, we fight fire with fire? >> well, listen go to read the report, and there is a chapter 14 that really, is the fight fire with fire. neil: that is the chapter i was talking about, that is the one

that i like. that -- >> that is a great headline. a great tv program but in actual world. you have to -- >> very calm, thank you. you hold that out there. >> hole it ou hold leverage. neil: this is where i thinkkyou could benefit from being italian like me. make that opening salvo and see what happens. >> no comments on that, thank you. neil: all right. let's stay we're timing a day after this in london. the president announces he wants to close this in guantanamo bay. are we ready to pay for coege? [ woman ] they came tsee me and we talked about ways to manage their money and save for college that fit their sitti

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>> there are 102 people on a hunger strike. >> let me speak. >> you are commander in chief. >> call on congress to let restricttion on detainee transfers from gitmo. i have asked the department of defense to designate a site ii u.s. where we could hold military commissions. neil: that protester calls for president to close gitmo. the president not liking the interceptions. i heard rude say really? america's mayor. and a day after a terror attack in london. mayor, awkward? >> probably never a good time to announce that you will take all of these terrorists out of gitmo, when nobody wants them, i

don't know where he is going to put them. neil: you would think after yesterday's development he would put it off. >> the whole idea there is no global war we just had an attack in london, we have an attack in boston from two guys, maybe more, who did it in the name of jihad in the name of islamic extremist terrorism. we have this attack at fort hood is is described as workplace violence, the guy was shooting out yelling allah akbar, this is like a serial killer, there are 30 cereal killings, and -- serial killings, and you prefuse to admit there is a connection. neil: you do say the word terror, the president, you cite these incident the. global terror war, what is -- >> pretend they are isolatedins

incidents of people who just went wacky. neil: what is he saying? is he saying they are that. >> i hate to make the case for him, it is dangerous to america's national security. i think giving him the benefit of the doubt, he believes if you say islamic extremist terrorist, you encourage more. neil: let's see, you leave it out, how about global war on terror, and he says it is not. >> he is wrong, and the reality circumstancis, it does not matte says they are at war with us. if he said, it is a global war on terror, what difference would it make? >> hh would send the right signal to our bureaucracy, they would not be worried like they seem to be in the unrun-up to

boston, no one can figure out why these brothers, or older brother, tamerlan tsarnaev, was not identified as a terrorist. i believe reason is everyone that in bureaucracy is afraid to say, islamic extremist terrorists, they are afraid to misidentify. i also think today, was a diversion day. i think this is classic, crisis management. political crisis management, create a new couldn't versey, thcontroversy,because the otherg him, with benghazi, and irs, and ap/fox. neil: we call if fox/ap. >> either way, butar came out first. >> you are right. he seems more aloof by bringing up gitmo, and to what end? >> he wants you and i tonight to discuss gitmo, instead of

discussing the woman yesterday who took the fifth amendment. neil: we led with that. >> a startling development. neil: like washington we can multitask. >> i have legal advice for mr. rosen, he should sue federal government, that would lead to discovery, they violated his civil rights in a way outrage aus by putting him in there as an unindicted coconspirator. >> why do they do it? >> the first judge refused their request to get records, so they had to ratchet it up to make it appear he was committing a crime, and suggested he was a flight risk, how absurd. >> he is when you all go out to eat and pick up the tab. >> he got a heck of a lawsuit, he should bridge it they

violated his civil rights, they liabled him, they defamed him. neil: he is part of a larger pattern of whether the obama administration directly, but trampling on a lot of things. >> it is, there is a connection with what irs is doing, and justice department, they are doing his bidding, they are trying to please the king. neil: the king does not have to say anything. >> he went overboard with tea party. neil: remember supreme court. >> angry, nasty language, they are racist, and unpatriotic. if you are in a bureaucracy and you want to advance yourself, you do what the top guy wants, that is what is going to here. i don't know if we're going to find trek orders from white house to any one of these. neil: you think that whistle-blowers are out there making dealing? >> i think there could be more if it happened in irs, and --

>> i know that, but, as a top prosecutor, that this is what -- getting these deals together. >> she did tremendous damage by taking fifth amendment, now she raised reality there is a possibility of criminality..@ neil: i am asking you, they need whistle-blowers or people in the know to come forward, do you think they are coming together? >> you have to have a special prosecutor, you will see it happen real fast. people will get worried, they maybe buck will stop with me, and i'll get prosecuted. i think this will -- >> do you think we will? >> i we have to, it is getting way too koch kate complicated. she problem waived the her fifth amendment right to take a pass to answer questions, this is like someone on trialing

sayingi, i'm innocent, i didn'ttdo it, and refuse cros cross-examineit. >> it sounds pretty good. mayor giuliani. >> when we come back, dow fights back today, but it follows a massive global sell-off, this is what happens when you threat don't take candy away, the kids get upset, these were traders, much more dangerous, when kid are mad they cry, when these guys are mad, they bolt. ble lesm their capital one venture card to fly home for the big family reunn. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mother! traveling is easy with the venture ca because you can fly airline anytime. two words. double miles! this guy can act. wanna play dodge rock?

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the question is how do you make sure youave the money u need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ neil: a lot of down arrows. stocks tumbling on ben bernanke hinting that party could be over, china not hinting that its boom days might be as well, as soon as fed chairman indicated that days of low en arrests might becoming to an end, sooner than you think then news out of china that manufacturing sector was slowing. former office depot boss, steve allen, will markets might be built on piles of sand. we rebounded by day's end.

and the dow, finish, you would say no big deal. but what a wild ride. and i'm wondering that says something about boy, a prick elielie market. >> it does, first ben bernanke saying he is dialing baca bond buying, and remember, that manufacturing sector has been world's global engine, global markets went down, japan down 7% that is like the dow dropping a thousand points, european markets, and what does u.s. market do it yawned. so this says something about the psychology. neil: it didn't start yawning, i wonder if cooler heads prevailed or they said he didn't say he was stopping this, they love to

massage it to a point where they say no ben will still have our back, i'm asking, what happens when he does have to have to stop? >> well this is the point, you know, they didn't take it seriously. they should. and if they do, and when they do. these markets will go down. committee for economy development has been complaining and warning about the debt situation, and about the economy, we do not have a healthy economy, we're growing at about 2%, we adding jobs at a small rate, not enough to keep up with population, that the total. rate, the participation rate is lowest it has been since carter years, this is not a healthy situation, if you look at chinese manufacturing sector, this says, christmas is not going to be good, nobody is talking about this yet. but all manufacturing is happening now for holiday buying, then it will ship, watch shipments here later in summer

and fall, they have to get to store, this is not a good siin for christmas which is you know, the consumer sector 70% of our economy. neil: yeah but you know, i hear you, but i could say market has been climbing this wall of worry, and japan even with 70% hit today, it is a market that was you know, in and out of 5 1/2 year highs, so, maybe we're -- too much. >> the nikkei was way up, our markets of way up, we do not have a healthy economy. and you cannot keep going on the bubble spending forever. we're at 17.5 trillion in debt, where is that debt going? china is buying some, japan is buying some. it is going to the fed, if you don't have the fed taking debt from one pocket to the other, where does it come from? one place, that and we'll have to print money, when you print money, it will be inflationary,

i know chairman bernanke said he does not see signs of inflation well not today, but we have sewn all of seeds for it. we have to pay the pipe near neil: walmart said they roleu. taxes are eatings if business sales alive who knew buyers were moving further down retail chain, dollar tree is making a killing. the ean gets warmer. the peruvian anchovy harve suffers. it raises the price of fishmeal, cattle feed and beef. bny mellon turnsnsights like stheses. into perful investment strategies. for a university endowment. funds a marine biologist.t...

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verizon stuff. see if you still want to buy. we have dennis kneale and john. what do you think? >> i don't think so, i think wonderful idea, i like verizon ap in to latino everyone is market. it is that big, that is why they have her and marc anthony as part owners of the miami dolphins, but, i think this is great for verizon but i don't think it moves the needle against apple. >> this is a great move on first glance, prey firs latino popula% growth. in last 5 years, and but, are we sure that latinos need much less want a phone store chain just for them? 75% of the latin group, has a smartphone, versus 63% for

americans overall. so there is no obstacles, and many features they say are geared to latin families, like a play space and stores for your kids, and that is in many stores that are not just appealing that to latinos, j.lo is famous for her booty licious derriere, she could loss this body part on this business. -eil: we will show that video again. in the meantime, issue 2, walmart, when it comes to cheap you are not all that. because when times are tough, shoppers are not going to you, they are going to a place cheaper, that could explain where dollar tree is so fire, and you are not. and ralph lauren are predicting buffo sales, and you are not, dens they is a retail version

between a revenue rock and a hard place. >> we always hear complains and worries about vanishing middle class, very low end discounters like dollar stores do well, and high-end stores do well, but middle struggles, j.c. penneys, and sears, maybe walmart. but i think they are the greatest retailer in the world, i would not bet against them. neil: maybe we could put up the j.lo video again, because i am curious how she would react to this. is it weird that gap between rich and wealth has never been wider, then now walmart in mid tell is weird. >> we've seen this for some time, happening for a better part of a decade. neil: the j.lo thing or phenomenon in retail? >> j.lo ffr me has been happening for more than a

decade, i am very mad add marc anthony for marrying her. you are seeing poverty at record levels as far as numbers, and as dennis said our middle class has disappeared, we're seeing it in retail, it can be coming that pronounced in america that poor are getting much poorer, and more are moving into income levels. middle class just disappearing, and family dollar, and ralph lauren is reason they are showing signs of the profits they have. neil: dennis? >> don't count walmart out. they have such a huge base of sales, 400 billion. this company has done more good for low income shopper, and even wealthy love a good deal, and that bodes well for dollar stores and walmart. >> dennis, walmart, according to a decide lowered food inflation by full percent, you are right

with what they have done. >> what if you don't like shopping at any of those price points? lower, midding higher. >> then you go on-line on amazon. >> you are right about that. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> and thank you to job or low. j.lo for all you have done. neil: thank you. amazing, i don't know where we are going. i'll leave the segment with this and think about what i am doing next, j.lo, did you think that pigs are flying, "new york times" says that the tea party is back, say it ain't show j.lo. n't worry, we have caelled your old card. great. k you. in addition tus monitoring your accounts for unusual activity, you could also set up free account alerts. okay. [ female announcer ] at wells fargo wre working around thock to help protect your moy

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neil: the time is changing, no less then "new york times," says

that tea party is changing, he and tea arty on the same page, a fox first, what did you make of this. >> this is a siz schizophrenic moment for the "new york times." all of a sudden obama gang starts shooting crazy at everything in sight, and shoot at ap, shoot atap, shoot at me. now obama is bad, i'm good. i'm being oprossed by obama, therefore the enemy of my enemy being my friend, tea party must be good, this is a sizoid moment for liberal press, and difficult to keep up with them, unless you are willing toial wallow around in sociology of dim witted. the question is, are they, and

have they in their schizophrenic frenzy of pai pair nowa knowingt obama is after us too. tea party fell after their high of 2010, some people pass that off as just a presidential year, i don't thinkkthat was it i think that some of the leadership of tea party got too involved with themselves, and forgot their mission. >> a lot got involved in social issues and grayed their message, having said that, i wonder, this sounds perverse logic this scandal. whatever hell the tea party went through was best thing that happened to them. >> yes, there is nothing more unifying than a common enemy, everyone hating the irs anyway.

neil: careful, now, see i do not hate the irs, i know irs agents watch the show, i will let that come go. >> i don't. i don't either. neil: okay. >> you and i know that the good professional careerists in irs did not pull this bumbling stumbling. neil: you are right about that. >> you have to be crazy not to understand that. barack obama made his whole life's career in so far as he had one. out of being a activist for the left wing. he knows all of the dirty tricks, he knows how to deploy them. obama gang, gave directives to the irs, we'll use these tools to persecute those whom we fear, it turns out at that moment, they had a fear of liberal press, why they did, i don't know that. that is a bit i hav schizophrent

liberal people are hard to understand they have no foundation base of reference by which they liver ever live everf your life. neil: a chance for you to feel the love, you and "new york times" in sink. >> his my moment with "new york times" in mid 80s, they embraced base closing, so surely, a lot of my friends doubted me. neil: all right, well, that was then this now is. you are a great egg now, dick army always good seeing you. >> thank you. neil: well will be a long hot summer. i am not talking for you. i'm actually talking for the folks in that house. managing the moving them, making them work.

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neil: they say memorial weekend is unofficial start of summer. the white house is feeling hot and bothered already. with all of stuff with enghazi, and internal revenue service, and ap, the white house might feel it is giving stuffed, it is filled with a long summer with a lot of hearings about this stuff, where is it going? >> nixon is looking so good right now, i think that nixon family is so thrilled. that was child a play next to this, this is three, 3 strikes you are out. neil: wherever richard nixon is now. he is just saying, touche. really, right. what do you think? >> any political scandal neil there are two elements, first is

substance alleged in all three cases that is overriding concern, they are serious. there is always other side, public resonance, what are people thinking about this, in this 64 score the proof is in polling, this week cnn had a poll out shows that majority of americans consider them to be quote very important. the washington post had a poll that shows americans give high marks to congressional republicans, on their handling -- >> that same poll also had president's approval rating up. >> that bridge bridges plea to s -- that brings me to fox news poll. >> you digress. it surprising it has not been dramatic. >> guy is way too serious. >> he is a smart guy.

my only point is, they register in the polls but not hitting the president, big time, yet. >> there is a ryan, bo reason, f these will stick around for a while, the irs, the one that should be sticking around is ap and fox situation, those -- that is one that really upsets me, this is not okay. the irs will stick around because nobody likes the irs, you have heard word benghazi in about two weeks now, there is a reason, benghazi is not sticking with the president. irs will not get to the president. this is my suspicion, you don't know for sure until you see it wind out. which is why i was not thrilled with the last guest. telling us that obama was behind it, he does not know it. i am not saying he wasn't. >> i don't think we have any evidence of that. you should not --

>> back to guy's point, these issues do resonate with americans, and just, i think it is a matter of time before they do. >> i agree, i think it is going to get worse and worse, this is going to be one of the worst times in presidential history. i am saying way worse than watergate. >> really? >> cover-up and people are targeting the irs. >> i think multiple scandals going on, any one could drag on. >> a name with multiple scandals, his name was clinton. >> this is different. neil: mainstream media is not going to jump on him. >> let's talk about his polls. neil: careful. let me bridge in guy. your argument is. what these scandals more questioning, the more we unearth and findd and maybe whistle-blowers come forward then it has a drip, trip effect

we saw with the beginning of watergate hearings. >> well whole premise of segment is, is this a long hot summer for white house. i'm not saying that polls show right now this is hugely damaging to president obama himself. we're seeing a little bit of the slide. but people are taking them seriously, and there is a finding in fox news poll, that was 68% of, that is a huge majority believe that the federal government is out of control. >> yes. >> that is a status in people's guts, the government is out of hand. these scandals play into this general prevailing set, that is a problem. neil: a good point. >> if you are a republican, this should have been argument you were making from day one you know what you can say, proo

positive that government is too big for anyone to manage. john: it gets so big that it is right for abuses. >> and that is what is going on. people lying. >> i don't think so. >> you don't even know. you don't even know. john: does it pass the smell test here? >> some things do not and some things do. certain elements are troubling, but the way that i have seen congress go about this, miitake. john: we don't know. >> we can say it that the way @%ey have done about the investigation is a mistake and you know what else we can say, the weight of the white house t indications team has gone about their part of the job is really bad. neil: here is something top worry about, that, their best defense is saying that there were out of the loop. >> qaeda they get away with it? >> incompetence and ignorance i

there best defense, as you say, because that is different than deceit and malice, but it still looks pretty darn bad. neil: that does not mean. that will do it. we will see you tomorrow. ♪ john: what do you know about gasoline? zero oil companies? >> wait too much. john: i am told at the mall wil help. >> a new hero is rising. saving our future. john: it does increase smiling. >> you can add miles. john: a lot of myths. that is our show tonight. ♪ >> and now john stossel. [applause]