biotic that helps maintain digestive balance. ♪ stay ithe groove with align. lou: heo, everybody, and thank you for being with us. these people are swearing to tell the truth in front of the house oversight committee, although not nyamericans are expected to believe them, and this woman, lerner, the woman a the cecenter of the ira scandal did the unthinkable for a supposedly public servants. >> i have been advised by my counsel to assert my constitutional right not to testify or answer questions related the subject matter of this hearing. lou: lerner took the fifth and refuse to answer questions afte pleading her case for a series of denials and deflections abou the lawfulness of her actions. do you believe her when she say

she is innocent? >> i have not done anything wrong. i have not broken any laws. i have not violated any irs rules or regulations, and they have not provided false information to this or any othe ngressional committee. mepeople will listen that i have done something wrong. i have not. lou: congressmen goudy made it clear that he does not believe her until she is subject hersel to cross-examination by the committee. and t congressman introduced and electric moment into those proceedings when he said that b telling her side of the stori she had given a perfect the man writes. hehere he is. >> mr. cummings is shot to $5 run this by the court room. he just testified and waved her fifth amendment right to privilege. you will get to tell your side of the story in the not be subjected to cross-examination.

lou: the congressman will join us in moments of talk about the latest in the obama irs scandal. also, amongour guests, the man who led opposition to the gang of eight immigration bill, senator jeff sessions, and we will be talking about e political impact of all of the white house scandals, former senator scott brown. but joining us now, member of the house oversight committee, former federal prosecutor. you heard his view of the fact that lerner forfeited her right under the fifth amendment when she played her innocence before the committee. and that i now a subject to be determined. it is great to have you back with this. >> thank you. lou: it is your firm view that she developed which she said suez and the sense, the assertions that she did not

break the la violated any regulations. what do you think the automobile ? >> well, if they apply u.s. versus brown which is the supreme court case on waving your fifth amendment privilege against incrimination, you cannot have it both ways. you cannot he to sale of the things thaare exculpatory about you witho having to withstand cross-examination. i think the chairman is going over all of his legal remedies tonight. one of which includes -- becaus he did not adjourn, he reid says , bring her back tomorrow. if she votes tomorrow, again, a you pointed out, her opening statement, she made a soloquy about how innocents she was and specifically says she would never let to congress. well, you don'tget to just say that without havin to answer a few questions about it. if she evokes tomorrow then the chairman and house will have to decide whether or not to hold

her in contempt. immunity is something that we were taught to play in court, but i don't think that will be contemplated, nor should it be. lou: the esident of citizens united served on the sta of the house oversight committee. he said that the straightforwar approach here is the decision must be made by a full load of the house as to whether or not she is a contempt. >> your reaction? lou: at least three different forms ofontents, and i want to challenge his analysis. there are two other forms. you can ner make a witness talk. you can give th consequences for not talng, but you c never make this person talk.

the other alternative, of course , is to do it --? mr. sherman. refer this for a criminal investigation. th u.s. attorney and others have accesto tools that the congressman don't and that is metimes a good way to it do that as well. lou: former irs commissioner douglas chairman, an acquaintance now, your colleagu says he visited the white house. visit the white house 118 times in 2010 and 2011. i mean, that is standing in and of itlf. by itself us suppose it means nothing, but it suggests a cluster relationship but the white house and in the irs commissioner i evereard, acting or otherwise. >> jimmy jordan did a fantastic job researching that. at the white house more than some of the employees who work at the white house. of course very poor on things h

is not want to talk about and splendid on issues he does want to engage john. he cannot remember what they talk to and whether or not it was targeting the consertive groups or implementation of the affordable care act. he did not make a ver compelling witness in my judgment. lou: the committee along with the rest of the house, the focus now be -- know that there has been a temptation. there is an effort on the part of the administration, the democrats to conflate and numbe of issues, the ambiguity. that sort of thing. tax cut issues. even the chairman of the ways and means wants to talk about reforming the tax cut. with the american people need here is a vast set of answers t really troubling questions in the end to the contact that you committee is examining.

will we see that kind of focused ? >> hope so. one of my colleagues on the other side of the i'll mention the special prosecutor. that was a democrat. i think -- i saw leve -- i know what to say about partisanship, but equal opportunity, outrage that does not exist on most issues. you also heard me ask, can you name a sine person who made the decision to target the chairman? here we are years after the decision and there are no names. lo but -- >> if i were one of your viewer i would be asking every member of congress for this started, where it is insidious report idea originated. and until we can answer that then we have not done our jobs as members of congress. lou: so far so good. i kee asking. my success rate is not much higher than that. i know that the congressman wil chge of tt. we thank you for being with us.

>> thank you and have a good night. lou: you, too. coming up, a credibility crisis for the obama lighthouse. the administration accused of abusing the trust of the american people. can americans get the truth out of ts administration? former senatorcott brown on exactly that question nex. we went out and asked people a simple question: hoold is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't cnged much is the officl retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪

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♪ lou: former senator scott brown says the obama administration has abused the trust of the american people in connection with the irs scandal. joining me now to discuss the political impact of all of thes scandals that are emerging and plaguing this administration is former senator brrwn, now a fox

news contributor. great to have you with us. and the more that we listen to what this administration says the more conscious we year. >> when does that line gets drawn and when d they cross that line and i will tell you what, the rate of free speech, the right of the press to do their jobs as a check and balance that is needed in government. other than that sometimeshere is that check and balance. the getting closer. i say it before and again. what happened with parasites have to go.

tryo reestablish that just of the american people. thjustice department and older should have been fired a long time ago. very few people in congress tha have any faith in his authority. fast and furious, trying to hav ksm tried in nework city, we are hearing on and on and on. when does it stop? lou: the attorney-general turning to the justice departmentcandal testified before congress saying that he could not imagine such a thing as b on the press when precisely this attorney general is doing precisely what he was nine. >> if he di he should be fired in defeated not nobody should b fire all the people work for him, an he works for the president. it has been a clear and convcing, almosta bullying

and chilling effect on entities individual citizens, news gathering agencies, individuals and it is wrong. it is not what our country is all about. as i said, he should have been fired a long time ago. it is unacceptable. lou: the justice department scandal the silence was deafening from the floor of the state's when they should have been joined in this administration and bring powerful and critical judgments to bear against you. now we find that our colleagues had been surveiled. in the case of james rosen, someone in the justice department named him as a criminal co-conspirator waste i

-- this person not to be in jai for lying, in my opinion, right now. what is your reaction? this is worsening by the week. plexuses america, correct? we dolive in america. listen. i am dumbfound as to how people a sell in their jobs. take a wide swath and go after the ap and have this blanket inquiry preparation, if it was more specific instance and ther was a real national security risk would say, okay, that is different, that is not the case. to label a journalist as a co-conspirator is very serious. that needs to obviously be held accountable. i am shocked that every news agencywhether it is conservative, and urged a more liberal is not going after the justice department of filing th opprobrium lawsuits to make su that this and other things like

this never happen again. lou: this adminiration is quickly making it clear, are they not, that there is a year to asil the first amendment as they are the second. people thought there would be limits and there appear to be none. your thoughts as we wrap up? very simple. we, as american citizens, have to look out for our rights and interest. now we he an executive branch and others who worked for the execute branch shirking their authority and taking it a step too far, need to stand up as americans andushed back because that comes to the media individual cizens, the file lawsuits, pushed backy getting these people out o office and demanding redress and accountabity. full, open, and become an transparent investigation into each and every one of these matters. lou: thank you very much. >> thank you. lou: the irs abused its public

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lou: our next guest says president obama in essence a issued marching orders to democrats in his administration by attacking the supreme court decision non-citizens united in his 2010 state of the union address. joining usightis the president of citizens united. it is great to have you with us. whenyou say, in essence, what do you mean? >> well, first of all, thank yo for having me. this is ssch an outraged of wha is going on in washington. the american people are upset about it. first of all, the president of the united states sets the tone for the federal government and when the united stas presidents in his state of the

union address denounces the united states supreme court and our decision which really was a irst amendment case first, that is what it did. it allowed more people to participate in the process. what they did was, they wanted the irs and the sec to come dow on 501c4. so that the president really se the stage and then within weeks a list of left wing people sent a letter to the irs demanding that they just that, really look closely a at all the different conservative groups. the irs is out there doing things that the powers that be don't want them to be. that iswhat the american people have to focus on. is not about incompetence. u: it is interesting. the democrats in particul.

the president's administration, suddenly talking about the ambiguity of the law. 501(c)4, the neceity to deal with a tax cut. this is subterfuge. classic pr defense. >> us with their wa to do. we will talk but the need to abolish 501c force. values a little romney manual. bus lot of leather cresses cutaways. let's focus on abolishing the irs and replacing it with a fai tax ora flat tax. an the american people will be better off without 97,000 irs agents. they could be used on the border .

lou: i think we can all agree the internal revenue service ha to have a very, very strong audit. we have to have one that goes l the way to this -- the leaders of this a ministration, who ordered what and wind. >> wave to write to the fifth amendment a defense. as a former chief investigator ofhat committee, i'd help people in contempt. the senate and house. what you have to do is get to the fullouse and hold them in contempt of congress which is the only way you will get testimony out of her. lou: you will talk about that very issue, the man who rsed the issue today. it is great to see you. quickly and looking great. delighted to have you back.

>> that you very much. lou: you will talk with the sand . coming up peroration reform headed to the full senate floor. senator jeff sessions does not think so next. copd makes it hard to breathe... but with advair, i'm breathing better. so now i can help make this a great block party. ♪ [ male announce ] advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working togetr to help improve your lung functionon all day. advair won't place fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not bused more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may crse your risk of osteoporosis some eye prlems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood prsure before taking advair.

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♪ lou: they gang of eight emigration bill was voted out o @%mmittelast night in the judiciary committee voting to approve the measure. >> i will. i will prepare. lou: yes, we can. breaking as three republican senators joined the democrats o

the committee. bad for workers, taxpayers, an american safety. numerous others including armed services. great to have you with this. you have fought a long and hard battle against this legislation in the dow moves to the floor. in your opinion i will succeed or fail, which is it? >> we have to depend on the american people to pay attentio to the facts. what we need to know is that this would legalize over the next ten years 30 million people , about three times will we would normally legalize. it well hammer working americans . far, far too many low-skill workers that will take jobs and

wages that people unemployed an underemployed right now. it will add trillions to the long-term financial cost of the feet -- united states treasury from welfare and other benefits. the law'sirst -- law forcement officers it will not work. it will make things work. it will threaten the national security. when need to make this legal system better. that bill just does not do it. lou: suggesting that there is something darwinian -- darwinia in all of this. they don't have the energy or care to defend its borders, to

claim its sovereignty for its citizen and the result is actually, ifou will, a foregone conclusion. the destiny of the nation is in the hands of a new generation. howdy reacts to that? >> i think we need to ask some questions along that line. who is theongress representing i just saw a bullet that said 800 people spent the night for five days and nights in queens waiting for job. i saw something in philadelphia they expected a thousand people that had a conviction on their record for jobs and 3,000 peopl showed up. people areooking for work in america. that is who we owe our loyalty to first. we need to be helping your people ge work, get off welfare , enough food stamps, get out there and have that independence, take care of the

family and have the time and health care. that is not ppening, and we just cannot solve this many new workers. the will to stand up and articulate that. lou: it is strange, senator, that night, we lked many times, that mccain kennedy or kennedy mccain leglation of that era. here we are talking seven, six years later. the answer still isn't there. we have the heritage report the is a great divi among conservatives. we don't know anymore about who the people are whh are in this country illegally. we don't know anymorebout the demography.

neither side, not those that seek to secure the border into managed care emigration as well as those who seek to open the borders, amnesty, neither side has the intellectu rigo of knowing what we're talking about . we don't know what it will cost a new will be in the country when it is said and done. we don't know what the effect will be on our borders some of the effect yesterday because we know for a fact half of the people coming acrosth border areot apprehended. we have -- it is just extraordinary, an issue that ha persisted without the benefit, frankly, of tremendous research and knowledge on the part of th senators to represent us, the congressman and thpresidents. >> it s remarkable. asked last week and yesterday.

the prime pressure of the bill, how many people would be legalized. he won't say. they will not even say how many people are going to be covered. how can we pass a major reform of we don't understand at? and no study has been done and the economic it's. just how many workers we really need for. the truth is, civil-rights mmission members have said that whave a surplus o low-skilled labor. that is to we need to be getting into work and off of dependency. so i am really relieved that there is way too little thought in sucas serious piece of legislion. lou: i want to say, i know you have been the focus of numerous attacks. i just want to shar some of the language. quickly. we are out of time. i want the audience to know. you presented your view. you have been in opposition to this legislation. you have done so horably and

forthrightly. the washington post attacking y, i have to say, he begins by saying,not since george wallace has a and alabama in been a taken passionate the stand for a lost cause as the one jef sessions is taking now. and then i get this terrible sensation that he was trying to make a different point and one that probably is not to flattering to have. he said that he shouted in his trademark twang the wiry sevener , the petulao alabama d, the ly audible note came from

>> we will try to tell the trut about it and the american peopl will convey to their representatives what they thin >> absolutely. thank you. center jeff sessions. lou: and angry press turns on the attorney general holder for violations of first amendment rights. former justice department attorney tells us whether or no the attorney general can withstand yet another controversy. ♪ it'ss simple as this. at bny mellon, our business is investments. managing them, ming them, making them work. we oversee 20% of the world's financial assets. and that gives us scale and insight no one else has.

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lou: the president today reaffirm his support and nt tody confidence in attorney-general eric holder despite concerns g over the justice department's seizure of the associated prs

reporters and itors phone uest records.n our nextuest served in the obama jusce department and has s subpoenaed records from a news r organization and those share part of that with us tonight.iec joining us is christian adams, s former u.s. department of ght, j justice attorney, author of the book and justice. good to have you with us.oo >> thank you. lou: let's turn to first what has happened here.l the internal revenue service tht site is about to become an even to b bigger scandal because of what e the administration apparently tried to do which was to ignore the fact that the woman who led that tax-exempt division was, i fact, left in place at, of all departments, the affordability -- the affordable carr unit tha will be maging 16,500 irs agents added his support the individual mandate and obamacar itself. i it could not get much worse forr that one small unit, could it?

>> probably not. this is an adnisttion that o u knows how to use power and lovet it.bl ide they put their most reliable, ideological, seasoned career bureaucrats into the most ar important places, and that is was happening in health care act . lou: this may, in fact, be the s death nail for affordable care t because there is no trust in ovm this govement right now, not i in any court, this homeland o security, the state department, %-loud., treasury for crying ou this is outrageous. >> what happened with the irs in frightening. to it is h not supposed to happen ha america to have theve powerful ring of a government like the address attacking people becaus of their beliefsse, because they believe in liberty this government was attacking them, g singling them out, asking for m, what books they read. t

this is the most outrageous sort of stuff that is never supposed to happen as a country.id lou: president obama -- as i watchednd listened to them, literally stunned as he talked about going to senator schumer o to restart the legislation, then shield law, the effect of whichh would be is asking she were to injuries legislation that, if passed and signed by him caledo prott journalists from his ent. justice department. this is outrageous and so zarr bizarre. >> well, there is no there i accountability. this is a situation where the justice department issued these insanely over broad subpoenas. insanely over broad investigations of a news organizatio then they could have done

yething much more limited than what they did. what they did is in keeping witr their loss of power.lo lou: as i said, you while serving in the obama justice departmenn had to subpoenaa 3 s ne organizztion. compare the experience for various reasons you cannot divulge the name of a large his organization. what was your experience, how tw limited was it?s one will the differences?hatus >> this was one of the most . an careful things the justice o g department can do, and then is to use the power to go after a news organization. they're very clear on the you he regulations and guidelines.ir you have to try to work it outet you have to try to negotiate a resolution and use the least s,t intrusive means, and most of alr , you have to have the attorney general personally sig off on your request, which she did for me. this justice department scraps all of this.y they don't have the ey

attorney-general sign-off. l they don't use the least use t restrictive means. use the most restrictive means an cast a gigantic neon, it is . lou: and in ter of frighting, you were also dited. >> yea %-least your political views, ad collusion with this highly policized administration. is this administration political orgization ts h now taken control of a federal government that -- there a day its seems tha this fedal government circumstance is attacking values, traditions and laws of this country and our citizens, as if they are warring on citens across the board, in this

government. >> the are the people that founders feared, i saw it haening up close when i worked inustice department, the attitude toward government is a perk of power, you impose your rld view on the country. and now america starting to see it. and that is hardly vinditing it is very disappointing but, these scandals, ap, a irs this is what these peoplere about, this isot mismanage am this is a muscular ideology that w dennis: we appreciate you being with us. please come back soon. coming up next, the obama irs admits wwongdoinn. but they will not say who was responsiblfor targeting conservative groups. the "a-team" unveils obama we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had th show us.

we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clingg to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is loong beyond. 80 thousand of us investing. in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it.

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the one a rowing number of labor unions turning on obamace. among them is the united workers international. they are worried now about the impact of obamacare. also the united workers is another group that is calling for the repeal of obamacare. the 1.4 million member union that is callingfor changes in obamacare. joining us now is the "a-team." analyst lis wiehl and hank sheinkopf and senior editor john fund. lis wiehl, let me start with you. lois lerner will be before the

house oversight committee. >> absolutely. you don't take the fifth amendment unless you think you've done something wrong. they won't advise you to that unless you have a problem. >> the plans were thwarted and delayed. the donors were scared off. lou: here's what it meant for the election. >> there were voter suppression charges in the last election. they supppress the vote. they suppress the tea party, they uppressed get out the vote

efforts, all kinds of groups that would have involved this. that may have played a role for the outcome of that very close election. can w also attach to that the fact that the story did not come out, and it's pret clear that the inspector general's report was slow, if i can be very gentle about it. >> this is interference in

american politics that is all well and good. to the irs is explaining tax exemption. >> a coalition passholder test. clearly it was harassment after seven years. if this went on for that long, it should have been investing somebodies nose on it. i am speaking metaphorically. because this is just ridiculous, the grown men and women who are committing themselves to be treated this way by any agency of the federal government. that is what i don't quite comprehend. but there is a lot i don't mprehend. >> there is enough stuff here.

>> i'm just going to go to a commercial break. [laughter] >> we're also going to find out what is going on in benghazi and why. and we now have testimony from two different deparent officials before the armed services committee of the house and what they revealed today. it is indeed remarkable. we will have that with the 18 in we will have that with the 18 in just [ male announcer ] we gave the new e-class some of the most advanced driver systems ever made. stereoscopic vision... distronic plus braking... lane keeping and steering assist... eleven enhanced systems in all. ♪ twelve, cnting your adrenaline system. the 2014 e-class. the most intelligent, exhilarating mercedes-benz ever mad see your authorized mercedes-benz dealer

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we'rnot in london, are we? no. why? apparently my debit card i what? i know. don't worry, we have cancelled your old card. great. thank you. in addition to us monitoring your accounts for unusual activity, you could also set up free account alerts. okay. [ female announcer ] at wells fargo we're working around the clock to help protect your money and financial information. here's your temporary card. welcome back. how was london? [ female announcer ] when peoplek, great things happen. >> we are going to turn to benghazind most american surveyed the most recent fox poll. they said that benghi is a cover-up by this administration

ambassador stevens withdrew a force ofion before the attack. one month before the attack. on the 18th of august. >> they are in benghazi. they have changed the

relationship with the defense strategy,. lou: wireless christopher stevens in benghazi? to well, they are whistleblowers that are going to come forward. let's just say that it was a national security outpost. i think a lot of tis was conducted outside of the state department and defense department.

when the white house on sunday said that we can have in a relevant situation, but they won't give you a timeline with the president was up to. why was that directive ignored. >> [inaudible] lou: hank, what you have to say? >> let's face it, folks. why don't you call the white house? congress has tried for eight months. that is you customary standard. you know very well that it is at the prerogative of this

president. >> how many others were there? lou: the fact is the pattern that each one of these offenses are aimed against our traditional form of government.

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