on@risk, the cyber threat. i'm connell mcshane, report from new york. melissa: i'm melissa francis here's what is "money" this memorial day. just like the smell of grilled hamburgers and hotdogs the power of money is in the air. putting a hole in golden parachutes. the days of ceos getting paid for failure packages are still boeing. can anything put a stop to it. we get steve forbes to weigh in. plus carl icahn is one of the most feared men on wall street and in executive boardrooms but isn't force for good? battled with 68 companies over the past decade. he is a shareholders' best friend or just in for his own gain. the power of mayer, the marisa mayer, as she tries to

save yahoo! from oblivion. she is almost a year into her tenure. we get a panel of experts to fill out her report card. even when they say it's not it is all about the power of money. melissa: we are starting with all the corporate shuffling at the top these days. ceo's are coming and going. most of them with one thing in common, a huge payday on the way out the door even if they get fired. while execs may think the packages are their insurance policy for taking the job in the first place is it really fair to shareholders? it comes down to the power of money. i had a great discussion with steve forbes, chairman of forbes media, steve moore from the "wall street journal," and daniel johnson chairman of the economics department at colorado college. we started off on

hewlett-packard's leo apeker. >> the thing you have to remember if you want talent like sports you have to pay for it f it turns out, by golly it ace real bargain. if it doesn't turn out every penny looks like it is wasted. you don't know until the guy comes to the plate when he performs or she performs, it is beautiful. when not, oh, my gosh. melissa: it looks like the last picture. steve moore let me make the case for the other side, for loft our audience especially like leo apeker look at marisa mayer. so talent and so hot at silicon valley, and at google she is making boatloads of money, she has no incentive to leave except for the fact she has the top job. yahoo! has cycled through disastrous ceos. they have a chance at a person who will give them buzz, pizazz and a proven track record. she will say herself why in the

world would i take this chance? why would i take this chance? i will only do it you cover me on the o back end if it doesn't work out. can you see that side of the story? >> i do. melissa, i'm a paid for performance guy. i don't have any problemy- with paying large severance packages and large salaries to get talented people. steve forbes is right. if you want the best third baseman in the major leagues you have to pay for it. what i do find a big problem with, melissa and steve, i just this idea of these huge severance packages to, and these kind of golden parachutes to ceos that don't perform. an d i don't see how that is in the interests of the shareholders. and i think the people who are derelict here are the, are the board of directors who often times you know, afree to these sweetheart deals when taxpayers are, i mean not taxpayers, shareholders are losing their money and these people walk away

with $300 million. i don't get it. melissa: almost, let me try the last example one more time. you look at yahoo! and say, what are the chances she could turn that around? why would she even try? too look at her to give her a shot they were left for dead at yahhoo. chances were she wasn't going to do it. without promise to pay her even if shehe fails, there is no way she would consider doing this i would think. i don't know. i know what her pay package looks like. i don't know what it looks like for if she fails but you've got to think she has some sort of compensation like that on the way out the door p it doesn't work out, otherwise why would she take that chance? give it a shot, daniel. >> exactly as you say, melissa, and both steves have alluded to, we have a fundamental agency problem. it is hard to monitor the day-to-day activities of a ceo when they're supposed to be doing the monitor of everyone

else frankly. melissa: right. >> who monitors the monitor? you have to construct a contract that incentivizes someone appropriate to take the job and take the creative risks appropriate for that job and then to somehow figure out a contract given the unknown that per seeds -- proceeds forward i would like huge severance packages than huge signing bonuses when you don't know what happens next. melissa: steve? >> what would be in the seven ran package i would put stock in the company. melissa: but steve moore, that. use the yahoo! example. under what you're saying you would y never get anyone good to come in. >> i don't know about that, i disagree with you. i don't agree. i think people are willing to take the chance. melissa: stevere forbes, go ahe. >> in terms of equity fund they pay up a huge amount of money. you don't read bit because they're not publicly held companies. they take the things over and give huge incentives for people

they need. some of them flummox on to make a mess most are out there to try to do a good job it makes them a good and makes shareholders look good. to get talent tough pay for it and take a risk on it. >> if it works: , you get $10 in return if it works out right.t in the d case of yahoo, everyone stayed away rom. melissa: right. >> you had to step up to the plate. who knows how it will work out. look what happened to jcpenney. ron johnson has a great job at apple and target. jcpenney you don't know what happens. melissa: all the people when you hire them you put them in, they look greatto and look like they have talent or else he wouldn't have pitched them. >> absolutely. melissa: maybe half the time it doesn't work out. so what do you do then? do you claw back money? what do you do? >> i thinkon part of the problem we cherry-picked the evidence

after the fact. melissa: of course. >> we look at the sensational successes and look at sensational failures and say, what a broken system. if we look at the other 99% of the cases where ceos were paid, dare i say appropriately, i hate to use that word, it assumes that what we're see something not appropriate. it is appropriate given there is enormous risk involved in the uncertaintyer involved, given, given the activities we're asking these individual to do. when you're hiring highly entrepreneurial, highly creative business leaders, adverse outcomes are going to happen. it is unfortunate when they do but they do happen. jenna: so we all know what enormous risk can come enormous reward. it will be interesting to see if anything ever changes the way boards build ceo packages or maybe not. coming up on "money," is carl icahn a shareholder's best friend or is his battle for dell driven by an out of control ego? that is the next installment of

our series, the power of money. you don't want to miss it. plus steve cohen's sac insider trading scandal gets hollywood treatment on cbs but is insider trading glamourization, make it less like a crime and more of an acceptable thing for wall street to do? at the end of the day. it is all about money. we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have knownomeone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing but even though 're living longer, on thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need

to enjoy all of these years. ♪ to enjoy a♪l of these years. (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilies.

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melissa: well he personifies the term shareholder activist but carl icahn's mo seems to be my way or the highway. he is in the midst of a big dust-up with dell computers. listen to the stats "the wall street journal" put together. icahn has picked 68 fights with companies the past 10 years, left ven last year. three already in 2013. isn't hero to shareholders or just using the power of money to move the market for his own profit? we talked to two men who know icahn just about better than anyone. david benoit has written by icahn for "the wall street journal" mark stevens, author of the book, king icahn. >> carl couldn't care less about anybody else but carl icahn. melissa: really. >> that doesn't mean shareholders have not benefited by what he does. carl, i always said carl doesn't

like anybody. i play tennis with him twice a week. we were neighbors in bedford, new york. he is smartest buy i ever met. melissa: really. >> i spent time alone with bill gates, former treasury secretary bill simon was my client. carl icahn is smartest fan. he amassed his fortune without a company. he is a row depreciation ridge back. jumps on the back of ceos and takes their money. melissa: what do you think motivates him? is it all about making money. is there ego in there and does it serve the shareholder in the end. >> certainly it is about making money. he is a money manager. that is what he does. he runs his own money. he doesn't have other investors invested in his hedge funds. it is justfu carl icahn's money. melissa: he comes under the heading of shareholder activist, when he gets involved in a fight, you look at it, here's somebody powerful enough to have somebody have an impact. if i'm a shareholder at

jpmorgan, i don't like to know what is going on, try to go to thehe meeting, raise my voice, there is only so much i can do. he coombs in with power of his voice. does he do it for the shareholder benefit or the his own personal financial bain. >> take dell. dell reach ad deal to sell itself is to the founder michael dell and silver lake partners. icahn things the deal wildly undervalues the share. he put a billion dollars on the table, bought stock in dell. this deal isn't worth it. let me make my own offer and offered to buy 58% of the country. >> we're missing a big point. melissa: sure. >> carl loves this kind of thing where there's a crazy quilt scenario going on with dell. it ace perfect storm for him. dell said, michael dell said we want to make this an even playing field. so they will play by our rules. melissa: right. >> last thing carl ever wants is evenst playing field. melissa: nobody does. you always want to tilt it in your direction. >> he told me once, i don't

believe in the word fair. why should anything be fair? why should i live by fair? melissa: david, those are great points but, david, address this specifically. does he really believe dell is truly undervalued or does know by virtue putting his own money at risk and getting involved he can gin a up the value and make his own money. that is good for shareholders maybe. maybe in the case of dynegy, blocked shares of blackstone, $4.50, ended up going into bankruptcy instead when he said, no, forget it. in that case he cost bondholders at least money. >> he has a mixed track record. everyone has a mixed track record put i think in this case he, it is going to help shareholders, whether he make as higher offer or again in this case blackstone make as higher offer, we have a little history. they're in dell too, it's going to wind up with a better price on the table for shareholders and i think what his intention

is to get a higher price. it helps himself certainly. melissa: mark, you say he is motivated by making money. >> and not -- melissa: maybe you just want to beon his side no matter what it is. you want to hear what he doing and -- >> can't always be on his side. his side today is not his side tomorrow. carl is a magic act. he was a chess player at princeton. the reason he wins so often, ceos think two or three moves ahead, carl thinks 12. you never know where carl is. he doesn't like anybody, no one. melissa: really if. >> he doesn't even like money because he doesn't spend it but it is a resentment game. he was a poor kid growing up in far rock away, new york, in lower middle class family. he has resentment. i used to talk about him this all the time. carl, take $50 million and put it in lichenstein when the government was after him for

$1.2 billion after him. pension benefit guaranty was after the money. let me think about it. fewut weeks later we played tens and you put the money in lichenstein, i mean legally after taxes. he said no. is why? money is my army. i need my army around me. to carl it ace big chess game. he doesn't even spend money. melissa: that is the power of money if i ever seen it. who is the next carl icahn? >> people ask me that all the time. i'll ask you, who is the next steve jobs. he is a one-of-a-kind in a generation. melissa: is, see other people. you're shaking your head, david einhorn, bill ackman are vying for a similar title. he lace out a formula. is there somebody that can follow in his footsteps, what do you think? >> there are a lot of activities followed in his footsteps pick up the ball. jama partners are active and relational. following multiple ball notice air and multiple fights going on

carl icahn started. i don't know if anyone is like him. melissa: we'll keep following icahn's move particularly what is happening in his bed for dell. "money," is hollywood making insider trading less of a crime? steve cohen's sack capital inspires a cbs prime time drama. has he been convicted in hollywood? >> moories is a mayer is may be the darling in silicon valley but is she on the track to turn yahoo! around? she is making waves. whether the $36 million she has gotten so far is worth it. more "money" coming up.

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money. even if you have to cheat. >> i'm an investor, i trade in stocks. if i pick a t loser i have to db it. either way i always win. jenna: sound oddly familiar, doesn't it? a little insider trading always makes for a good plot line. this one in cbs's show, "person of interest" is clearly ripped from the headlines and the sac capital scandal. hollywood rarely miss as chance to glamourize insider trading in the insatiable quest for the power of money. is it undermining the spirit of the crime? that's what i asked former sec chairman harvey pitt and criminal defense attorney richard roth, but i jumped right in with fox business' own charles payne. i am almost on the side of steve cohen now. starting to feel sorry for him. if cbs will take a half-baked

drama and rip from the headlines, is everybody father getting that he hasn't been convicted? he hasn't even been charged. that doesn't matter. >> never matters, particularly in hollywood, does a lot, they convict a whole lot of people in a whole lot of industries. you think you're upset with this one, wait until the wolf of wall street comes out you talk about glamourizing these thing. it is interesting they do these things. when it is all said and done, a lost times people would not be on steve cohen's side but they come away, say, you know what he did, not necessarily was so bad but interest is way of doing that. there is s still a glamour aspet to it and night not be so bad if i could do it and get away with it. melissa: you say they glamourized it rather than making it a criminal thing. that is r very true. let me back up, harvey and bring you in.s is this fair? he hasn't been charged. he hasn't been convicted. we don't know if he has done anything wrong but hollywood cast someone to play him as a

villain who just wants to make money! that is evil bit way in case you didn't know. >> well,l, it may not be fair b, it may be fair comment at least, given all that's gone on with sac and with the consent see cree against the firm of sac. there is obviously been some misconduct there. they wouldn't have been charged. so to that extent it's fair. i think the way it gets presented on v is absolutely, on v, misstates what insider trade something like and what happens. melissa: tell me what is wrong with way they're stating it? >> there is nothing glamour russ about insider trading. people trade on inside information because they're they're stupid or

both. in this particular case, anybody who would undertake to do that is running the risk of severe jail time by wednesday what bahara has done in new york. he has gotten 70 some odd convictions either by trying cases or people pleading to counts. so, the fact is, if you do insider trading, you go to jail. melissa: richard roth, let me ask you, because steve cohen has been pretty much convicted. eliot spitzer,o of all people said, recently he is the like the john gotti of the hedge fund -@world and what he meant was he is so insulated by some people within his organization. he may or may not have actual knowledge of what is going on. the fact he is being compared to john gotti and that imagery and has been held over by other people and repeated again, here i am saying it, here you go, i'm part of the problem, is this

fair? >> that isn't really fair. he hasn't been indicted or arrested. haroma was indicted by federal authorities t by insider trade something proper defendant. steve cohen, say what you want about him. right now there is really nothing against him personally. but it is fair game. you know as mr. pitt said, if he is in the press and he is almot every day between his artworks and house in the hamptons and all the alleged insider trading and involvement in maroma and art follows life. v picks it up and gets. melissa: is he rolling around in roles royces and buying houses in the hamptons? >> he is certainly thumbing his nose at the system. if he is guilty saying you can't touch me no matter whht. >>: so did gotti. >> teflon aspect of it. to harvey pitts aspect, viewers

point of view, we don't see how the guys look 20 years down the road. infamous real cases gone on and people couldn't get their life together, for the viewer feels like this guy is master of universe whether he gets caught or not. still they go on and they're powerful and they're rich and fly away in private jet. melissa: that is theu point for our audience. is he guilty and trading because he is making money. as the other actor said he doesn't care about whether the drugs really work or not. by the way if he is an investor, he is supposed to be after profit, after all. is he guilty because he likes money. is that what you get? do ou think people really understand what he is truly being sought for, the idea that he is trading on illegal information? >> yeah, i think there's absolutely nothing wrong with liking money. and trying to earn it. legitimately of course but, that's what makes this country great. people can do that.

so that part of it isn't the problem. it is doing it by cheating and cutting corners and if that occurred here and it is crucial to remember that he has not been charged but if that were true here he's going to get slammed and he should be. melissa: authorities still pursuing cohen and some of his employees for insider trading. sac was just sued for almost a billion dollars of shareholders of drug company elom corporation which they want the money cohen made by trading on nonpublic information about them. coming up there is power and money and marisa mayer has mountains of both. she spark ad storm of craze and controversy since taking over yahoo. has she found the magic mix to turn the company around. our panel of experts grade her performance. you may be surprised to hear what they think. plus the far-reaching power

of twitter, like it or not it can move the markets. but are we giving it too much leverage? we'll break it down with some experts. do you ever have too much money?

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melissa: money and power celebrated and unafraid.

yahoo ceo marisa mayer is the epitome of that. she is trying to put yahoo on the road to recovery and doesn't mind ruffling a few feathers. she banished telecommuting and double pa rent at that leave. she got $36 million to do it. bottom line the numbers are really not there yet for yahoo. to help grade mayer's tenure so far we brought in hadley heath from the independent women's forum and democratic strategist and fox news contributor, julie roginsky. hadley, let me start with you, because sheey does seem just unafraid.id >> right. this remind me of margaret thatcher quote. melissa: totally. >> being powerfu l is like being a lady. nobody, it is this idea that you don't have to tell people when you're powerful. obviously, marisa mayer is very powerful. she is making good decisions for

yahoo. i support what she is doing. whether you agree with her decisions she is the person in charge and will be held accountable for yahoo success or another way, their failure. melissa: julie, she sunday a microscope without question. there have been articles back and forth. i haven't seen the office so i don't know if there is nursery there. right on the heels saying you will not let people telecommute, she has something near her own office for her own child. i don'tch know, is she playing with fire? >> i'may all for not telecommuting. i tried it when i had a baby and it worked five minutes. melissa: she told people to show the hello up at work and that makes sense. >> in a conference call with a crying in your ear you have to get to work. if i were working yahoo or you we wouldn't build a nursery next door, we wouldn't be able to bring our b kids. what she should do, subsidize day care at yahoo and allow people to bring their kids and drop them off if that doesn't

exist and drop her own daughter off. that is more fair. melissa: yeah. >> good for her to go in there and cleaning up and dropping the hammer. i'm all for it. if she were a guy nobody would be making a big deal out of that. melissa: well, i don't know, if she were a guy and this guy put a nursery next to his office peoplecu would that a huge deal. >> not the nursery. the part about dropping the hammer telecommuting. melissa:in spencer, the bottom line is the financial bottom line for shareholders. she was brought in to turn around a company with a lost challenges. the stock price isot up 56% sine she came on board in 2012. i don't know if the bottom line has improved that much. well, yeah, we have to just keep in mind that yahoo was a complete basket case when she came in and named ceo in july of 2012. the previous ceo didn't last a month. he made up stuff on his resume'. melissa: right. >> yahoo needed stability. it was a sinking ship. she has come in. she got it off to a strong

start. she steadied the ship and you have to give her loot of credit. yahoo has been in decline for a longme time, many, many years. this turn-around is not boeing to happen in a few quarters. it will take multiple years to turn this company around and management actually acknowledges that. so you know, yeah, the numbers aren't there yet but she is putting inot place a foundation. melissa: is she? that is my next question, spencer. is she sewing the seeds of really turning this company around? because in the long run that will be the only thing that really matters? >> yes, i do think she has done a>> number about things to creae a stronger foundation for yahoo. for example, yahoo was down to the d-list, okay? nobody wanted to work for yahoo. melissa: right. >> people have been leaving them for years the brain drain has been like incredible. yahoo isai seen as a place that they're getting more resume's. the attrition rate is going down. they made big key hires. they hired a top sales executive

from google. she is putting in place the talent base. she is making acquisitions. now she has to build great products which they're starting to do and got to get revenue growth. melissa: we'll see if that comes to fruition. hadley, julie, we talk about power and money and the intersection of both a lot on this show and usually the one corrupting the other. she is really embracing and celebrating both. she is under 40. she's beautiful. she's brilliant. i've interviewed her. she is, she's fantastic. the stock price has risen but at the same time, you know she does really go t out there and ruffle feathers. not afraidike she is of doing it. is this strategy of embracing her power and raking in the dough working for her? >> i likewo it. i like her style. i like that she is sassy and does what she wants. that is the style of a ceo. someone has to take charge and i'm glad she is showing that kind of leadership and confidence in her own decisions.

these work place decisions she is making about telecommuting or extended community leave she is not doing one or the other because she is trying to people please or be fair to her workers or give gifts to her workers. she is doing it because it ace strategic business reasons. she wants to attract more and more resume's. she wants totr attract the talet pool spencer was talk about, the one way she can do that attracting and retaining talented makers like herself is with extended ma interpret leave. melissa: there is usual an extended backlash over time. people are waiting for her to stumble and fail and they're highlighting. julie, is she setting herself up for that? >> if she is doing everything to right the ship at yahoo i don't think so. at the end of the day she will haveil to deliver to the shareholders and people that care about yahoo and the yahoo bottom line. melissa: i guess we'll just have to keep watching and wait and see how mayer and yahoo continue to perform.

next on "money," behold the power after tweet. when one false tweet can tank the dow by 144 points you have to wonder has twitter become too powerful for its own good. bank of america and wells fargo get slammed by the new york ag but a crackdown on them may end up costing you. how is that for the power of money? stay tuned. more "money" on the other side of this break. at od, whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in with premium service like one of the best on-time delivery records and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business.

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melissa: like it or not, twitter has become an important tool in our society. in just the past six weeks bottoms ton police, the fcc, even the sec have all been using twitter as a legitimate form of mass communication. and then came the hash crash. one false tweet from the hacked associated press twitter account caused the market to lose $136 billion in just two minutes. got to make you wonder if we have given twitter too much power? that is what i asked marketing expert bruce t erkel and media

marketing expert, josh marsh. they announce ad deal where they're basically doubling the revenue of twitter by investing and buying ads. do you think it has come too far too fast? are you tweeting? >> i figured if i were tweeted it would get there quicker than if we actually spoke. has it come too far too fast? it finally reached the point of ubiquity, people who said, this will never matter, now they're paying attention. melissa: maybe it is not prepared for that. josh, you look what happened today. it got hacked and it caused people to lose money. it caused the dow to move 144 points. everybody stopped and looked and you started to wonder, should we rely on this. should i really believe what i see on twitter? is it as valuable as i'm making it? >> i think websites have always been hacked. that doesn't mean you shouldn't have a website. it means you really have to take security seriously.

what we've seen over the summer is a spate of hackings into twitter. >> this is: elf did the most serious. i think it is making people wake up and they can't e-mailing twitters things around. they have to take twitter taking security seriously. this is identification. melissa: bruce, from the perspective being out there to try to make money what it meant to me, i shouldn't trust what i should reed on twitter. twitter need for you to believe the person tweeting is the person they say they are and it is really valuable information and to me it became information that was not valuable because i would have lost money if i traded on it. >> the problem it is a bigger picture. if you say twitter and new internet thing i don't trust it i see how you think that way. if you think of twitter as what it is a mass media device, mass media gets hacked all the time. kim kardashian got married. that was a hoax too.

if you read "us" magazine and or "entertainment tonight" it was on every media source. hacking into media making false announcements is nothing new. rules change, twitter is mass media. whether it is true or not, that is whole another issue but it is mass media. melissa: josh, it undermines ap's credibility. the whoa thing they trade on is the speed and accuracy of the information that they're giving out. we all do. they trusted twitter to disseminate information because of its speed. now their reputation take as hit as a result, because whether or not you blame ap for what happened, you don't trust the information you see, well it could have been hacked. this may not really be the real story. that's damaging. >> it is damaging. the same kind of thing if ap's website had been hacked. melissa: yes. >> there is responsibility on twitter to try to improve their security practices and for

organizations especially big media organizations to really take the security of their social media accounts very seriously. melissa: bruce, at the same time, you know, you can't deny that twitter is absolutely exploding during bottoms ton marathon bombing, i was surprised to see that, major organizations were using twitter as a way to disseminate information, whether it was boston police sending out messages or announcing it was over, they were using it as a critical too, even the sec has said that it is a way to disseminate, you know, fair disclosure, real information about your company. it does seem like no matter what, it has been legitimatized by all these organizations. >> yeah, it's absolutely has. it is a way to get information out in real time. it is a true media. everything josh said was right. security has to be enhanced. we have to pay attention to that. no different as he said than on your website. no different than on television. no different than on radio.

no different than on newspapers. it ace new way of getting information out to people. the difference is that all of a sudden it is instant and it is global. >> that: is why the game changes because it used to be if somebody made a mistake in the newspaper you could print a retraction but now adays it is instant and the message gets out to everybody and gets retweeted right away so security becomes important. but believe hawing read on the internet, if people didn't believe it, why would the guy send you e-mail from nigeria that he wants to give you 15 million bucks ? people still fall for it. melissa: he is so right. always a fun guest. wells fargo and bank of america in hot water not helping homeowners the way they were supposed to. both banks are sued by new york's attorney general. we'll tell you how it could end up hitting your wallet. don't go anywhere, pyles of money coming right up. [ male announcer ] need help keeping your digestive balance in sync?

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otherworldly things. but there are some things i've never seen before. this ge jet engine can understand 5,000 data sampleser second. which is good for business. because planes use less fuel, spend less time on the grou and more time in the air. suddenly, faraway places don't seem so...far away. ♪ >> these are the complaints that have been collected by our lawyers and counselors around the state in just six months against wells fargo and bank of america for failure to comply with most basic provisions of the services settlement. melissa: bank of america and wells fargo under fire from new

york attorney general eric schneiderman. the banks allegedly didn't process loan modification requests in a timely manner and racked up hundreds of abuse, violating last year's national mortgage settlement. insiders say he is just really pressuring the banks to write down principle which they don't want to do. it all comes down to the power of money. i talked to fox business' dennis neil and doug burns, a former federal prosecutor on what b-of-a and wells can do when they're accused of completely ignoring the timeline they were charged to follow. >> you have to make the first distinction which this is notlas wrongdoing. it ace lawsuit saying you have not complied with this national mortgage settlement. apparently there was something like over 300 different rules havingr to do with things like missing documents, giving fair notice, not doing what is dual tracking, modifying the terms of a mortgage while simultaneously foreclosing. here comes the procedural wrinkle that is interesting real

quick. in p the settlement itself you have to refer it to those monitoring thet settlement. they decide whether they bring the lawsuit on your behalf which schneiderman wouldn't be in it. if they don't, schneiderman has to wait an additional 21 days, bring the case, lastly not to go on and on it has to be in the federal court of the district of columbia. melissa: dennis, when ia: look through his press release and the sob story he came up with, i know there are people out there so frustrated with this process and i definitely feel for them but itk makes me wonder ear little bit when thehe sob storye came up was a family out of work and hiti by hurricane sandy whih is terrible without question but they applied for a loan modification in march, the 30 days went by. they heard sometime toward the end of april that they had to start over again because there was something wrong with their paperwork. >> let's handcuff the bank and throw them in jail over this. that is the best they have got. melissa: yeah!

>> did you know that wells fargo set up special mobile operations centers afteri hurricane sandy n new jersey and new york, a couplel areas and had them there for close to 90 days my understanding is. the did you know that the 210 violations that wells fargo is alleged to have violated, the banked is handling 800 cases evy single day. do you know that they have granted forgiveness on $6.6 billion. melissa: no i did not. >> of loans of the these are people, let's remember something. these are people who defaulted because they stopped paying theirhe mortgages. why are we trying to hand billions of dollars of bank money to people who defaulted, not because the bank made a mistake, they defaulted because in most cases they stopped paying their mortgages. nowrt schneiderman, he doesn't even bother, this attorney general, to talk to the bank and negotiate first. all he does is hold a press conference first and wait for this oversight committee to do it. melissa: well -- >> he doesn't care about reaching a solution. heo wants to grab headlines.

this is beat up the banks. we have not let the guys out of jail. enough. melissa: hang on., insiders say what it is really about would make sense with the narrative, he wants to pressure to give them more principle. >> who is he to do that? why is it his business to force banks to give up loans that they took and knew whatter this doing? it is their fault. this is purely a transfer of wealth. melissa: do you want to get in a word edgewise here? >> what is the old phrase, tell us how you really feel. >> exactly. >> let me be the lawyer. tough give the borrower 30 days notice.c if there are documents missing you have to cut them slack. that is what it is all about. however i agree with my colleague although less vehemently, in that, joking aside the reality is he is grandstanding a little bit. this is for the oversight committee to negotiate a settlement which he should have done in the first place. agree. melissa: this has been the argument from the beginning. they said these big mean banks should have as heart. people have, they got in over

their head. everyone was in the craze of the there are tons of blame to go around. >> there are tons of blame to o aroundne especially homeowners, shareholders pay the bill. let's understand how cafta -- kafka-esque this is. we spent $600 billion to bail out largest banks because we wereo terrified they would go ot of business and ruin the global financial civil. draining billions of dollars from the very same banks. three banks haveh done $30 billion in payments since 09. $30 billion from banks we were trying to save because they were badly managed. melissa: not just the shareholders who are paying the bill. a banki if they lose money they will raisel these elsewhere. >> every homeowner pays. that's a good point. >> will not be able to get a home. there is no free lunch. >> that sun with big complaints. that whatever money is taken sim little will be passed along. 33d

instances, but reality is, back to the point, ould b discussed and setled. not settled, all right a settlement. >> let the banks -- never mind amnesty, but have am necessary amnesty for the banks because we drain them dry. we have to go -- one last thing, sorry, but we push, the government pushes bank of america buy country wide, to buy others, and -- >> cup of decalf, buddy. >> i love the passion. >> these things we force you to buy did bad deeds. tonight onfe blood of the

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