i'm not sure but i think it gets more intense. neil: i want to thank y, guys. i wi david: all of this could affect what the fed does an of urse, that affects thearket. >> i'm dennis kneale and here is what is "money" tonight. the billionaire brothers under assault, enemies pulling outll the stops to block them from bidding for the l.a. times and others newspapers. the newspapers are dying. what is so bad about these guys? there money is not good enough. lose 20 pounds eating mcdonald's every day. this ceo may accidentally had just invted the meat diet. did he stumble acros a delicious at campaign? and he made money today? the profits may as well be glazed and liquefied sugar. but even when they say it's not, it's always about "money." ♪

dennis: and our stock -- top story tonight, social security and how long willt really last. the annual social security trustees report releasedoday says the program will go belly up in just 20 years. the medicare finance committee 30 years or so to go bust. is the situation dire or nothing to worry about? here to cross the numbers, -directorf social security works and dan mitchell from the cato institute. thank you for ing with us. why don't you start us off. what do you think of the report? >> actually it's good news for the american people showing that social security is extremely affordable. it is working even in this recession. $54 billion surplus. and almost $3 trillion a cumulative surplus and i can pay all benefits for the next 20 years and with just small

anges it can pay benefits for the foreseeable future. dennis: okay. but we have some numbers that we put together. take a look. this year so security, 2013, it will stand at $75 billion more than it takes an inocial security taxes on topf $55 llion more than social security spent than it took in last year and $45 billion the year before that. this overspending looks like it just cannot go on. what do you say? >> the real problem with social security is in the long run. whato you -- whether you call it a crisis or something it can be managed when you have between this year and a 75 year time horizon that security uses, cumulative deficits amounting to about $20 trillion, that is a real problem. that would either requi huge tax increases or benefit cuts which is why i think the best thing that we could do is to copy countries like australia and sweden that have put in place personal retirement

accounts. dennis: nancy, even the report says that social security is safe for only 20 years. neville, a lot faster. bush should we do? >> social security is an extremely conservatively finced program. it cannot pay benefits unless it has in some teeseven, sufficient ay. so it has a surplus last year, this year and for the next 20 years. then it will make the wealthiest pay their fair share. right now they stop thh pain at $113,700. most workers pay. that would solve the pblem and be able to pay benefits. security is a solution to retirement income. it i much worse, much more efficient and private pensions. it spends less than a penny of every dollar spent on administrative costs. you cannot find that in the private sector. dennis: i never heard anyone make this argument. >> two tngs, number one, if you extend the social security

payrololl tax all income and tun it from a social insurance program into a welfare program, that undermines support for the program and imposes a huge over 12% marginal tax rating on top of the tax increases obama already give us as part of the fiscal cliff. another thing that your viewers need to understand, the so-called trust fund that is out there with that trillions of dollars, that is nothing but ious. it is money that one part of the government opposed to another part of the government. your kids' piggy bank, taking the money, going to vegas in writing and i know you to yourself. it is not of real asset. even the present administration admittedhat. dennis: he has a point. all of those wonderful figures you point out are based upon the government actually paying for all of thenterested goes to the soal security fund. that is not rl money. >> these are federal bonds

back by the full faith and credit of the united states. the same status as the money we go to china and all other kinds of foreignountes. you telling me we will pay back american workers? this is money taken out of workers' paychecks and contributed. you can look in the trustees' report. dennis: the figures show that while we put in a dollar we end up taking out $2.24 over the lifetime of our retirement. this is not working. the math work in all. >> in terms of rates of return that you were just referencing, if he retired 20 years ago, you probably got a pretty gd deal out of social security. for today's younger workers the way the tax burden has increased, we will pay and a lot of money to social security and get very, very little. there would be so much better off with personal retirement accounts. it is really amazing when you

have the social democratic left-wing countries that are putting in place personal retirement accounts and it happened uer the labor party in australia, for itance. the social democrats had it in sweden. why can't we do it in the united states? thirty countries have done this. it works so mh better. >> sh -- social security is insurance against old age, disability, or death with young children. you cannot find a beer deal. you annot find this inflation adjusted benefits. you cannot find the spousal benefi. the children's benefits. social security is a great deal for the american people. that's why it's s popular. the entire shortfall is less than 1 perce of gdp. we are the wealthiest country in the natio our benefi are quite modest. we can clearly a force of security. >> a goo deal. dennis: weave to let you go. thank you very much. and for viewe, the -- the

utterly different views is why we are not solving the social security crisis, and it is a crisis. time now for the day fuel gauge report. we will keep oil production flat at 30 million barrels per day. despite pressure from some of th12 member nations at opec's annual meeting, they did not put forward solutions to deal with3 growing competition is from the shale oil bi and the u.s. concerns about high crude supplies up westbound oil futures. a one month low selling a $91.97 per barrel oil decned almost 2 percent for the month. and illinois state house and bracing the fracking barone. overwhelmingly approving a bill that green lights and regulates acking in illinois. the legislation now goes to a state senate and governor pat flynn, a democrat, says he wants the bill on his desk as soon as possible. and next o "money" the sec says public companies should have to

disclose cyber attacks, even if there is just the threat of an attack. create mess for investors and we will find out. plus, the koch i a bid for the l.a. times and seven other union papers and their union enemies are hell bent on stopping them. we will expla. more "money" coming up. ♪

♪ dennis: whether it is on wall street or main street coming here is to make "money" today, investors betting big on fox siness donuts, the only thing tastier, may be the first quarter earnings. estimates on wall street. boosting full year outlooks. sent the sto skyrocketing up 21 percent today a just short of t 1-year high. also makg money,nvestors and lions gate entertainment, a hundred games and twilight franchises making it rain profits and the company. the studio trounced wall seet expectations for fcal fourth quarter. up%.

and making "money." he is the winner of the national spelling bee. i would not like to spell his name. he nailed both were to take on the championship. a yiddish type of dumpling. taki home $30,000 cash. $2,500 savings bond and $200,000 in a reference book from encyopedia britannica. my bad for a 13-year-old. andeople everywhere are growing more and more concerned about cyber attacks. most of us still have not been really hurt by one. yes, there have been some denial of service attacks on banks and reports of both chinese and iranian hackers infiltrating suffer systems, defense systems, but how would you like it, how much we care if comnies you are invested in have been targeted. would you sell and pull your money out? lawmakers are trying to force public companies to disclose to shareholders when the company is a victim of an attack or even

gets a potential attack. what kind of impact would that have on investors? joining me now, founder and managing partner. and before we get into this, let's just talk about the market getting slaughtered in the last hour. today. is this summer rally now over? >> very interesting. i have been talking about a sell-off here in the marketplace because i thinkhings have gotten ahead of themselves. so i am actually not surprised and the dow jones sell-off. i think that there is actually more room to go here based upon, look, the macro trend, i think, that gdp growth, unemployment rate, nationally over seven and a half% furling the amount of time as well as on the way to a 17 trillion national debt. those factors are still there. now, i think more than ever, the marketplace, the stock ticker's market place. it with a trusted adviser and figure out which companies you like in a market that think

you have to be proactively patient in and pick your spot entering into because as of today we saw i dow jones sell-off very quickly. i could easily see it going down to 15,000 quickly as wl teeseven i think there is another side to that. we will have to see what happens next week. let's get into the cyber stuff. we alreadyave laws on the books to require companies to make a disclosure when a material event happens. why do we need a new law on the books to say, oh, and also, cyber attack. you have to disclose that, too. if a cyber attack has material results they have to disclose it anyway. why go the step further?s impore shareholders aware of a material and believe the lawyers up to defining what material means. a material effect on the company . in a material fact -- material effect would be like someone had sent to coca-cola and finds the secret recipe and socl sharehders be aware of the fact that that recipe was

stolen? yes. but i think that material -- i don't think a material effect is a system was broken into any firewall prevented people from getting any information. should that be disclosed automatically? i don't think so. there has to be some level of privacy for these companies i am allor protecting hareholders, but i think we really have to get into what is materi and what is not. dennis: rule of thumb, i always thought some event has an effect of a 10 percent change in the mpy's revenue, profits are stock price is a material event. some 10%. this case hackers love getting attention. if we start requiring companies to put up a disclosure when they merely threan to break in, aren't we basically giving them exactlwhat they want, more publicity? >> i agree with you 100 percent. every time something pottially happens are there is a potential cyber attack i think that we

play right into exactly what they want, which isust extensive attention and so i think, again, we have to really sit down becse now this is an issue with technologicaa advancement. this is the downside of technology expanding. t i don't believe that we should be able to ave to disclose everything that potentially may happen. dennis: i'm sure they mean well, but sometimes regulators see headlines and have to do something to cash in on it. ank you for being with us tonight. coming upon "money," the koch brothers set their sights maybe on buying the l.a. times and seven other tribune newspapers. there union enemies have aaother tactic to try and stop them. why shouldn't the koch brothers be able to buy any paper they want? and the opportunity of a lifetime to break themselves up. sometimes breaking up is good. can you ever have to much keep -- "money"? i'm thinking now.

♪ dennis: may not even be. it is black, white, and read all over. buying up the tribune newspapers , including the l.a. times. the protesters have been taking to the streets to block the possible deal and hadven gone to try behan chairman's home dressed as industrialists. why shouldn't the koch brothers be able to buy t newspaper exactly what is going on. what is the real objection? >> at think the objection he is they obviously are not buying these newspapers to make a profit. there is not a lot of profit

these days in buying papers, so obviously you have the concern when you have a buyerho is that politically involved. by the way, i would make the same point if he was a very liberal buyer. dennis: at n heard anyone ke this point. and the billionaire is rumored to be interested in buying the l.a. times did not hea a peep. talking about going in, did not he a peep anywhere. >> it is a very fair point. the concern is, will there be independent journalism? we have to keep in mind that a lot of the newspapers, not just l.a., your talking about orlando, bbltimore, chicago. pretty much the only newspaper in town. dennis: television and cable and the internet. the newspaper might dominate the debate. >> this would give the koch brothers and oppornity to basically not just ship the editorial base which, by t way, they have every right to do absolutely. the concern is that they won't just shaped the editorial page,

they will start putting some limitations on what stories you cover. dennis: you never heard it these concerns expressed about the new york times. let me tell you something about david koch. who is he? he controls this energy company, but take a look get what he has@ done, donated $100 million to lincoln center, 20 million to the museum of natural history. this guy gives millions of dollars to really give programs that the public enjoys. this money is not good enough for the l.a. times? >> i don't think we'll use that argument. we should use the same argument. dennis: but no one is protesting him. >> is that really the measure? add think he does great things of this money. everything you just listed is true, but that does not qualify and talk of some of the biggest newspapers i the country. he is going toervert -- nnis: the newspaper business, and i was a newspaper reporter and editor for years the business is dying for and

needs new money. if they have it, why not take %-to you seen the liberal media bias? i'll see any protest for any other kind of hons. thiss a hatchet aimed at the koch brothers. >> and double in the tribune. it will take anyone's money who is willing to give to them. but of course there is a liberal bias in this because they know th there will be aslant, he slant to the way that the news is covered. there will be the same conservative bias, you he to admit. dennis: there was an a article n the new yorker, tom sullivan magazine that i read for 30 years. inugust 2010, 10,000 words, ten pages on the koch brothers and their stealth attack on the federal government and buried deep inside this is one paragraph, well, they are giving less than $30 billion year. george soros, the liberal, spends $100 million per yea. that warranted one paid -- one

paragraph in the new yorker, but the koch brothers spending far less warranted 10,000 words >> i'm not one to talk. i have to say that up front. lien, again, if it was george sorus stepping up, i would be lying to you if i did not say would be a little more comfortable giving my own grounding, but you would have an absolutely legitimate argument. when you have somebody who gives that much money to the political system, political candidates, yodo have to question the independent journalism. dennis: journalism has never been independent anyway. everything has a point of view, and that is fine as long as you reve a point of view. thank you for being with us. up next, sony, verizon, microsoft. it the opportunity of a lifetime. split themselves up. why iestors cannot afford to wait. plus, smelling blood in the war. the new ad campaign directly targets teens. that ishat they always say.

it will open up another legal field day against tobacco. piles of "money" coming up. ♪

♪ dennis: hello. breaking up is good to do. sony, the proposal spinning of a

piece of its entertainment. and while we are added, a few other major giants might benefit joining me to discuss, c group and schaefer asset management. welcome to the show. first, let's start with that panic button sell-off, the last hour. it you havbeen bearish, saying this rally is not for real. is it finally not? >> it is not. it isnlyeing held up by the federal reserve, so now people are neous that they will pull back, but that is exactly what is holding the mket up. dennis: stocks are down or up? >> i don't think that the reserve will stop. dennis: continue to go up? >> up or sideways. dennis: john? >> i'm a little confused, but i think it will stay the course. but they have been bullish. i will stay bullish. rebalance. 3 billion shares selling at the close. th was a lot. it. dennis: that is is closing out. >> yes. dennis: you're not worried. >> not really.

nope. now when you have the bank of japan, the fed, the ecb. dennis: okay. all right. let's talk breaking up is good to do. i think that the sunny plan -- by first call for spending of that hardware andoftware and spinning them up. now you have someo far smarter than i saying you should do it. microsoft is ben of $18 billion consumer business and just hold on to the old software. just got a plan through. the spinoff and hold on to wireless. >> the italian thing is more political. sunny with a great asset. a spinoff becse it wants to cash i a great time to get into the market. a new offing. one not do it in the market is at a high, which by the way, is a sigl of the top of the market when company stock to do this. it is not a bad idea. bring equity income and pay down

debt. the companies like to focus on them. dennis: when i a seabrook itself up five ways, we talked that at one point in the combined value was up 200%. >> the snoff actually, and etf, outperforming a bubble really on the spinoff side. most of the bigger spinoffs tend to have better performance than the smaller ones is because the management is that much better. in terms of sony, sony is at a 20-year low,ot really at the top of the market. what they're trying to do is take that entertainment division which has the highest profit of the whole company and spin that off. i will take $2 billion of the shares and that new company myself if you can't find a buyers. ivision.ally looking at that dennis: as bankers and ceos come together, huge eires of the

last ten or 20 years, a lotf times it can ask the british and thh gym and said the company. our parent company is now splitting between prt publishing and b0 screen properties. >> years ago we used to have these people that would come in and buy the stock and tried to take over the company and break them up. that is what wall street was all about. now it seems that buying stock in getting on the board and be a more activist and getting more publicly known, not getting the buyout strategies or corporate raiders. what they're still trying to do is maximize stockholder value. they think they can get some value of the breaking of the company. this is not a new concept. >> the problem and the reason these proposals often come fro outside is because doing it requires management to repudiate a dictator to of eir own strategy. >> what you see is a lot of times, the ceo thinks he is all knowing. you can take over any company. a case where they have all of

these companies rolled into one. he thought he would be the best and is basically in jail now. all the spinoffs have done very well, not to mention the fact that if you look out, used to be the best year out of the 3-year time cycle. the management is there for that much farther, awakening the mother ship. earnings, pure and simple, to that company. the management of that company is incentivized to perform that much better because usually the spinoffs could some much equity in terms of stockptions that it is in their benefit. dennis: last words, will we see more spinoffs coming? >> of course. the shareholders want more value fo what they have gotten. if you break uphe businesses, the some of the parts is ually worth more than the total which is let think they're going after e environnt is right for that because they're is a lot of equity. >> a lot oo money breaking stuff up and five or ten years later they start putting it all back together again.

>> don't forget the low cost of capital right now. denn: exactly. all right. thank you for being with us. nicely done. turning now to heavyweight health foods that want to crush camel cigarettes. the new ad for the crushed cigatte show a credible capsule that releases a man of flavor. maing that harsh to basket -- tobacco taste. it is a bright color and cool looking graphics. fox legal analyst joining me now. thaak you for being with us. >> wt is happening. i hope you children will be jumping to buy cigarettes because that ad is so compelling dennis: and thinking you are dubious about these complaints. >> come on. why? bright colors and -- i don't know, they're graphics jumped out as cartoon the style of print. first of all, these ads aren't in clearly adult-oriented

magazines like people magazine and sports illustrated magazine. it is not an highlights or ranger rick magazine. exactly. so i just think it is like enough with picking on the tobacco industry. we really put them in a corner and put them in a box. now starbucks is giving them a hard time. anyone sitting in a starbucks area, starbucks owns outside. dennis: yap. now you can't smoke onhe doorstep any more. 25 feet away. >> you're going to ban electronics cigarettes. the tobacco involved. denn: in the tobacco and no smoke at all. >> really. let's just get a little reality check and let's let business do business. i mean, this is still america. you are still allowed to smoke. you aretill allowed to buy cigarettes. let's let the tobacco industry do what they do.

but the individuals who choose to partake, knowing -- the prections are loud and clear. they havave banners over the beach, don't smoke. dennis: or the park bench. have to get up and move to another binge. -o you think that any tobacco company cou launch any new campaign for any product without bringing protests from creditor groups? > it is boming more difficu to prepare for this segment when i went and looked on-line, i was justike, what? what is so annoying. i show ts to a 14 year-old. well, that is really cool. deis: we just showed an image of the old camera and campaign -- camel ad campaign using a cartoo character whhch was shot down during an 90's as being o appealing toward kids. i think this one is appealing toward a totally different

demographic. he is a pretty good looking camel. but it just feels like -- i mean, it is a legal product. and yet they are not allowed. advertising and all. >> and it is a matter interpretation whether or not they crossed the line are not one person could say it is geared towards children and someone else may say it is not. i don't see any argument how that ad is geared towards children. man. dennis: i like ittin that think we will wrap up there. thank you for being with us. it weekend to you. coming upon "money," mcdonald's ceo who says he has lost 20 poundshile eating mcdonald's every day. did they just stumble on the next gbal ad cpaign? we will find out. at the end of the data is all about "money." ♪

♪ dennis: i'm calling it the mcdiet. mcdonald's ceo says he lost

20 pounds in the last year simply by being more active and eating mcdonald's every day. not giving anyetails on exactly what he was eating. but if he is smart maybe you should jump on this opportunity in three branded as a healthy fast-food option. it worked for a subway. here to cer this over with me, pr and marketing experts. thank you for joining us. first of all, as i saw this story the first thing i thought abou was that film documentary sur sized me made by morgan spur like where you can see, sick and fatter and fatter. and so my first question is, do you belie the report? >> listen, dennis, we have seen what actually happe. we have seen the video. he comes out and ss, i lost to the palac get off your butt. a gat message, but i think his biggest problem is he is not staying within the brand. may's huge efforts to save rare putting apples in

there instead of verizon during this in telling school kids to get out there. you really c't come out there and start telling everybody they should be eating mcdonald's every single day and expect this amazing heah-conscious and look great. dennis: how does somne get away with it? i think jason is his name. he has been as superstar. he hated. >> you're talking about jerry. miael plps is women, doing all this stuff, it a place for trainers to go. justame out recently that it is not the case. you have as 6--inch subith no condiments. but that is not what it is. they're saying it is healthy. you go in there, get a foot long with cheese and meat balls, chocolate cookies for dessert and a big soda and thi they're losing weight. that is not the case. everything in moderation. the ceo of a liquor company, you don't have to say you don't enjoy the product, but you don't

have to say i'm doing it every day. a little bit in moderation. dennis: the ceo of wet tobacco company, but he's using his product every day because he is dicted. regarding this ceo, he was just embarrassed last week at the shareholder meeting by this 9-year-old girl who came out and read a statement that i'm sure her parents or her hand was prepared saying, wire you advevertising junk food to children. then it tells of four to publicize what its ceo eight because you think it was -- he was eating salad and apples instead of fries? >> i'm sure he added taste of someing every day, but his biggest mistake was coming out of the box talking about her dying dog and how sad it is that he is pushing these chemicals on kids. he comes out and fla out says, we are not selling junk food. they can call a spade apade. it is what it is. you don't necessarily he to eat it every day. we don't see that he is losing.

you never see his cholesterol count, high blood pressure. so the fact that the hype from the ceo, this is not a ig. you're not trying to have people standing aside of mcdonald's. you should probably think about it a little bit more. realize what the brand strategy is and try to stay with that. dennis: while i have real gone to great lengths tmake its menu more helpful. salads and applesnd all this kind of stuff it seems among other fast food makers there is almost a backlash that says we don't care. we are sick and tired of people criticizing it. look at health taco bell has this not sho taco. look at how crispy cream came outith an egg sandwich packed inside a donut. it feels like fast food purveyors are in a bit of a protest, rebellion. >> these thingsre out there.

you can make these this at home. deep fry your turkey at thanksgiving. you can do all of these things. it is not necessarily the fast-food company's that should be to blame. it is the parents. you make your own decisions. choose moderation. have birthday cake, but not every day a tree, something you go to your in there. space things out a make sure you get a healthy diet, exercise. i think you're going to do it. dennis: leme tell you, i have had that deep-fried turkey and it is really good. thank you for being with us. >> thank you for havin me. dennis: and next on "money," the world's lgest hotel workers strike is over. ten years after it started. which side finally caved at the chico plaza hotel? weill put an end on your pillow if you stick around to find out you can never have toouch "money." ♪

>> that may have been the real rem. it time for a little friday fun went "spare change." today we are joined with imagen lloyd webber.

let's talk about the 10 years of strikingith tis unit in chicago. they finally came to an agreement. >> this puts things into perspective. this started about 10 yes ago. after they go through their contacts, they went through the amount of money that they ad in 20. they are completely left out. >> im thinking that the workers themselves must've moved on. >> a lotof hem are already crossed the picket lines. i mean, it was -- they need to get back to business and back to work. they were only getting about $200 per week to take it. it is time now. dennis: can you imagin going ho to your spouse each night

and saying, yes, we are still on the picket line and we are still striking? >> it would've happened in 2002 area. >> it is afacinating story. one reason i like it is that it shows a that the unions are getting their backs that. they are getting more transigent. union unwillingness to grant concessions. the hostess brands ended up going out altoghe. are they pushing too hard of a caseload? >> i think that they are trying to protect workers red but what is happening is affecting business and they need jobs. these are self-contained areas. so the workers need jobs. they have been losing jobs because of the. >> it was more complicated than just the work. dennis: i st tl you that breakers union eally blew that. moving on, whittling away the

stories. lithuania may hav fou a genius idea. >> i am surprised thath lithuanians. especially when cash-strappe era. they have 15 billion euros and they are losing into tax invaders. dennis: what you think about privacy problems? >> i think first of all it is an invasi of privacy. i'm sure until su the divorce rate wl probably go because their cars parked in driveways that shouldn't be. [laughter] different cases they brought up of the first two cases.

dennis: coming up next, four republican senators who are released from an ultraliberal senate. >> i have seen us. part of the storyline isn't john goodman is a north colina tor. >> i love housef cards.

apparently we aregetting at liberals and conservates. so i think that the more that w have sire humor, the better it is. dennis: they are already bashing republicans like crazy. >> you have that problem with democrats and republicans both at this point in time. i was at an event last night, a comedian made joke. a democrat is ike the happy terviewers that says, i'm going to take u to disney world. something comes up. and he goes by himself and you're sitting there at home. so the satire is definitely right for the kitchen right now. i think that everyone needs a little bit of a breath of fresh air. >> i think it is a fascinating house of cards. it is a game changer for hollywood.

it would be interesting to see how they are accepted into the hollywood mainstream community. >> when you say things that sound somuch more intelligent than wheamericans say something. i just want to point that out. last one. did you ever think you would hear of someone getting fined for washing the car? welcome if you have anytng to do with the end aa, a stude athlete slapped with a violation by the ncaa for using the water in the host. >> this is completely ridiculous on every single leel.

>> remember, i'm not lazybones. the vacations come i have heard people say that it is a waste of time and moey. the place will cover without em. and if you really think that, then you are not doing a good job. if yo're you are really the only one who can run things from your wide open for troubled something happens to you. if we launch into june tomorrow, schedule a week off sometimes in the next three months. you will come back recharged and wiser. dennis: be sure to watch the tom sullivan show this weekend. you can catch it a7:00 o'clock and 10:00 p.m. on saturday. sunday at 7:00 a.m. and 7:00 p.m. eastern.

after "money", we have "the willis report." have a greatome back, that is is it here, see you tomorrow >> where is it? winning streak on wall street goes on, and where is the austerity? let's bring economist frifdrich hey yeck back in the mix. >> what is austerity anyway? >> i do not know. >> i have no