have a great night. we will see you monday. welcome, everybody, i am neil cavuto. positive ratings are at 48% and it is really startling in that same poll. it probably goes in line with two out of thr americans who now have a negative view of the irs. knowing all of that, would you do that?

would you use the privacy laws to justify not turning over information to congressional investigators? it is true. these preventions meaning to prevent te disclosures of taxpayer information. two dozen times, essentially stopping lawmakers iquiries. the same institution that stopped over scores of individuals with reckless abandon now clings to the very privacy laws that clearly abused. amazing. the irs just promoted ahead of that cincnnati office where all this nonsense went down in the first place. these guys wonder why their approval numbers are diving. those are the men that are beginning to die as well. as and home office, art of the market. they say that markets the

marks are down. this thing is out of control. we make of it? >> it goes way beyond that. we are talking about conservative groups and i hink that the problem with the irs is much more deeply y ingrained in what is happening in the wld. you and i have had onversations over the years. think about a year ago tellin you that in my working of the job creators alliance, we are trying to get business people together ayonwho is basically a lobbyist could have as many as a thousand employees. those people who are running businesses, they are significant. let's say that i have 500 employees and i goo them and say, what do you think about the job alliance. they think a great idea, it's a

wonderful idea. but i have to be vey honest. i say, who is going to ge you? and you know, the government. i have never in my experience -- and i have been around for a long time, i have nevr seen business people afraid of thr government before. neil: you were big prominent democrat. right onto this administration. i think that anybody who speaks out for her, you go out and speak out about the cost of3 obamacare. if you tell the truth, they have all said the following to me. we are not hiring full-time employees. we are hiring employees.

i say why, and they say you kn why. okay. now, that is paranoia. they are prey to the irs, they are raid content afraid of epa and it all omes from big government and it all comes from, you know, the pressur that are being brought on them politically. so i think it is a scary situation. i hope congress stays on it. i hope that they do not back off terrbecause this is a great problem for all of america. neil: i have to say, that it does not seem to be thwarting our efforts. as you know, they were doing this rafting of conservaves which was a couple of weks ago.

my question is this is if you are seeing these poll numbers that show seven out of 10 people think that special prosecutor should be looking into thiss3 matter, or that two out of three americans just have a negative view o it, none of that appears to be sinking in. if anything, it is emboldening them. >> well, if you feel as though you are immune from outside pressure, by the way, these are all in ways of the government. it is very difficult to fire them. you say that we should fire them. but the truth is that that is not an eay process. neil: i know, you are right. >> so i do not think that -- i don't think this is going to go away. neil: what would change it? obviously a public uproar is one thing. invariably a president of e

administration is always kicking and screaming when it comes to special prosecutors for anything. but theysually give anyone a heads a fever pitch. just today they were aying no special prosecutor, we have this on our own, saying that you have nothing to worry about. nevertheless this is the attitude that we have and they are not going to bend. the event? >> i think it willend. them. congress can keepoing we have the ability to make those kind of decisions a it didn't hppen. the ly way to congress is going to find out is b taking us. and i don't know, this first amendment a very seriou amendment. especially when you're on a public payroll.

that is really serious. it is up to the congress. if they let it die away, itwill die away. and if it dies away, it ll embolden those people who do is mischief. they will fel that they are more able to get away wit things. neil: i'm sorry to jump on you it like this, but can i get your perspective is pretty good business right? gets back to sort of something moretyliic here. that is the president's defense, largely, that he was out of the lo in benghazi and what iss going on. he's out of the loop by the irs.

so can you really be in the loop, or does it say something about the style bres this type of activity and should make us worry? >> let me give you mypinion. and this is only my personal opion. when he knew that they were ing to get obama and ben bradlee, where was he? i mean, this is a very serious matter and we have four people killed. it is a veryerious matter. it is an international incident and how does he say he doesn't know what happened? if that is the case, ten this doesn't speak wellor the president of united states. i don't know of another president, and i cano back to clinton, i can go back to buh. you know, you want to go back to

whoever you want to go ba here. they would not be wearing something like that happening. not understanding until five days later what happened this is on foreign soil, these are american citizens that got killed. the only reason that the erican peoe are not up because outside of fox and "the walltreet journal", no one really knows aut it. neil: he knew at the very least. so much we don't know.

>> what about the secretary of state? do you think that she would be totally aware of a? what does it matter? it is all over? to me it smells pretty bad even if you are a sileton, i am a warner von braun. newsflash, i am not. always good to see you come and. >> takre of yourself. neil: burnie markets. one of the nicest guys in corporate america. meanwhile, relax, everybody. here he comes to save the day. the president said to do some pressue on student loans. chuck agel. he i tough, they are rough. meet the former wrestlers who

say it is time to stop this china syndrome.

>> if congress dsn'tct by july 1, federal loan rates are set to double. that means that the average student will wrap up an additional $1000 in debt. it is like a thound dollar tax hike. neil: that alarm you heard in the bakground is that it's happening. the president wants to give kids a break to prevent thse things. i wanted to step back and fathom what is going on here. we are talking about student loan rates from jumping to 6.8%. that is hiorically low by anyone's standard. of course by comparison to the unreal low of 3.4% that students are enjoying now, it is really a big jimmy carter-ish. should the govement be

artificially keeping student loan rates ridiculously low to hide the reality that this is unreal. oelrich liz macdonald. i derstand that students want a part of it. but i just think it is crazy. >> yes, we do want to help our students. we are examining this because it is so scary and risky to our economy that could destabilize our ecomy. when you have student loan debt, you have subprime borrowers walking away from their loans. you have to save, what have we done to her students do not have

a good market for these student loan. >> have we aided and abetted basically the college unversity system that basically is operating like a hotel empire. that is tohave amenities, to have great cafeterias, expensive gin. the students are ping tuition for this and they really can't afford it. neil: i like that. you know, one could rgue, it would always be a shock to student seeing rates doubled. but at what point do we get back to ntural market rates? obviously those rates were much higher. especially when i was in school. the student discount rates -- they were based on a free-market type of florida -- system. by the way, i wld apply the same critics consider the fed

realistically, you know, having missed you at the realistic level that is not realistic. >> problem is the whole system. we havthis national id system where the gornment controls the rate. my problem is that the government make 336 cents every dollar it runs out. so they have this interest rate that they set and they are the only benefactors from it. it is not like the interest rate is controlled in this way. that is the problem. the government is setting stents up to fail by telling them they should go to college. taking out 50 grand in debt, it don't matter what a major in. we actually need to get students to think about whathey they're going to major in, how it will procure them to succeed. making them consider how muh and once whathey are taking out. that is something tat the system -- there is no restriction, there no screening

as to how many loans you can take out and how much you can take out the. neil: my bigger issue with this is the easier you make it to provide funding for kids who might sorely need that fuding -- i don't disms that. the more you make it eaasier fr the institutions themselves to keep raising the prices because they say well,hey are getting more loan money or cheaper loan money, we are going to keep jacking up this tuition and room and board fees and all the rest. >> this is one of the instances were completely agree with your thesis the ones wehave a thunderbolt? [laughter] >> i know how much that disappoints you. having this day that,i wold like to disagree a little bit. i agree with the president that we have set up this horrible system and we should not double the rates with the stroke of the pen. that is not good policy. furthermore, the president should be using his bully pulpit

to address the kinds of issues that liz macdonald was talking about. i think that she is right. the costs have gone out of control. they are not always about education. this is something of where we could usleadership on. we are not going to get it from the academic institutions. he don't care. they are making their money. so i think that we only get to focus at times. the government should help students with student loans. again, igree with you. not ridiculously artificially low rates because that is not sustainable. neilthe who system is weaned off the government. >> yes, the federal government took over in 2010. direct lenders by the u.s. department of education. en you hav the u. academic system, when it is built on the nonprofit system, you have to say to yourself, they have a pretty sweet or there. adam is right.

900 grand fhe dean of the harvard law school. lycow. so you have to say to yurself, if they -- there are a lot of fatcat academics. i would say reduce their tax exempt statuto make them more marketable. >> i was going to say thesame thing. we should have a policy conversationbout that. i'm might solve some of the problems. exactly, that is the problem. the lenders use to be attack on gher education. they wouldn't give you one if you're going to go to a battle that would allow you to get a job and pay it off your that is a problem that we are having. what higher education isdoing is that sense that naturalization happened, college tuition has run up 25%. the average average graduating

student loan debt has gone up 20%. colleges are just running rampant. neil: we a as close as we have ever been on any issue together. so it is a moment. when we come back, chuck hagel. this i have to.

ne: all right, the secretary of defense kicking up some ust. chinese officials with cybersecurity this weekend. john label says get ready for the attacks to continue their attack.

he can't pin ese knuceads. but alas, he is here to offe his destined area. how do we get back on offense? >> i think a lot of people don't understand it. we protect all of the routes around the world to go through china. it's a fine line. neil: how do you draw a the fine line of sbotage. we have to tell them to knock this stuff up. neil: you say not enough, b what you do?

there have to be consequences for actio. if my faer told me something as a kid,you know, there is none of that. what we do? >> we don't want to get into a tradwar with them. what hapns is we went through this with airbuses as the well. neilbill clinton had the same approach. it goes back to jimmy carter, ronald reagan, you better stop thisoutine, china has gotten richer and richer and more powerful.

>> hit them where they are the most formible. take that away from them. tell them tha they are not going to allow thi that is what has to bdone with sanctions. you have do it to prtect our company and our interests, by all means, put that on the table that sanctions are an option they need us mre than we need them. we can go after them if we choose to. neil: all righ we shall see. the other option is for them to get in the ring and put this thing to rest. it is ways good seeing you. thank you very mh. >> it is great to see you. neil: no special prosecor. we fou

neil: all right, right wing nut jobs going after eric holder. the respected professor and legal scholar. when george washington university professor jonathan turley wtes that it's time to fire eric holder, dare i say it cross examination on the right and the left. to theood professor monty

thinks the attorney general has overs that end not so much dereliction of duty, but losing credibility on duty. explain why you have to go. >> both have a lack o judgment. this is not his first scandal. several have you eric holder is a bit of a menace when it comes to basic rights. he was a guy who defended the policy of prsident obama. the media overlooks things for thprotection of liberty. but you did hear what the administration did here. what they did was have a

comprehensive tack on the free press. their defense raises even greater concerns about the commitment of first amendment values. they have argued that as long as they don't prosecute someone like james rosen, it is really not a right repressed. which is really bizarre. we have a fourth amendment that protects against unlawfuu searches. it doesn't mean that they haven't invaded their privacy or violated the fourth amendment. what is most disturbing here is for people to once again be part of this administration. eric holder shou go. i do not know what is worse. the fact that he knew nothing about this or heor something. either way, he is damaged goods. he doesn't servi administration as well as he could.

neil: weare all for protecting amicans and their rights and thei lives. if this somehow gets mixed up in the sauce, understand what we re doing. >> every official who has been accused of wrongdoing says that they have the best motives. no one disagrees that the leaking of classifie information is a crime. the prior administration has focused their efforts on finding the leaker is. @%is administration has had a scorched-earth policy with regard to features and whistleblowers, this esident has prosecuted twice for number people under the espionage act and all prior presidents put together. but to pursue people like james rosen is really beyond that.

it is not a closed question. that is where you don't go. you do not threaten journalists. you do not see information on these sours. >> i'm just wondering about the legal inflection point. the hing is it is grossly out of place for libertarians in regards to free press. the justice department should not be in charge of this investigation. i'm a big supporter of independent counse for that

reason. steve we are going to have a secret off the record meeting on ths. >> what is also weird is that first of all, he came in and there was in this roll up your sleeves meeting. he said what he was planning to do. one person asked him questions. in thicase, he has been accused of this and he personally sigd off on what was it directors of on the free press. that is the reason that i think the this meeting was a little bit more. to give cover for themselves and the president.

at some point we had to put away our political vision and stand with the constitution. including things that are vitally imprtant. neil: we have the liberals who have often ionized air. you have a call. neil: sometimes when they are standing in line for hours. you better get something looking at that line. better get a few of them.

neil: use a doughnut. just carpet down. what the heck. in the big apple, this eatery that features be filled onuts has folks coming out of the woodwork. again, at $5 a pop. the very thing that wendy'ss rolling out is a pretzel cheeseburger. fast food making fast work of the fast food poice. we have gary smith. very thin folks. all right. they always forget to pieces and they have some work to do. >> exactly. the fast food folks or the

itics. >> this is what i love abouthe story here. catasm at its inest. they are saying forget about conventional wdom, forget about this. we are going o gve people what they really want, and honestly hope to make money. i applaud them for it or neil: keith,what you make of is? >> i am in the wrong business. five-dollar donuts, $7 for coffee. the one part of their goal is to police the over-the-top stuff. >> witjerry's point, this is

the quintessential example of the reed market. i think it is a great de. >> windows aides, still great. it has been way overstated and way over done. it was more than 100illion unit sold. you agree that, keith? >> i do not know. i go back and forth. i just about threw mine out the ndow this morning because i couldn't find a portion of it. but you know, if it is working and it's selling, great. moreower to them. >> i guess that i really caught on fire.

>> i think that it is a great number. 100 million of anything is fantastic area i think the bigger issue is how the media, the left leaning media is protecting us. if you are in microsoft, ibm gone for good exxon mobil, you have no good news. is what i think the bigger story is. >> according to a new survey, being mrried have more money. gary, were you rprised by that? >> i am not surprised. but i guess in looking back over my marriage, 2 years strong,i

guess, i guess mbe you do have to work a little bit harder to maintain a successful marriage and make a lot of money. so i guess it was surprising, buin looking at a little bit deeper, maybe not so shocking. neil: when i ran into th survey was as if it was a choice, either marriage or money . i think that we understate t importance of what the right partner can bring. and the longevity d the access that comes with tha. >> i would agree and i think there's something else in the study that caughh my attention. en you are older, it didn't matter. so we don't know and we don't care. but either way, i think that

marriage is good and i was very happy to see that. >> think money still matters. you know, so i'm thinking about this. >> of course it does. we have to support the marriage, children, whatever comes with at. having a successful partner, i think is a premium that societies need agency returned remark all right, guys, thank you both so much. >> a state wker caught napping on the jobless job was bad. it gets worse. dountil you hear about another one suing the governme to prove he was fudging his hours.

neil: let me be brief, this is not. i have two very geat lawyers trying to make sense of hi you know, she says that he might have a case hre. they have argued that in 2009 the polie need to go to a judge and ha probable cause before they can play this kind of tracking device on someone's property. in this case we are talking about this.

neil: would he be suing for damages? would hee of that? >> the other guesstimate guest made a great point. this isn't a criminal case. let's jus stop by for a second and undetood this guys doing. he is basicay stealing money. neil: so paying for his job, you ow, that is what weare talking about. >> yes, that is not the only thing. this isn't a criminal se. you know, it public employers

can search their employees. there is a limited one exception. l they need is reasonable suspicion. >> most of these states don't have the work requirements like new york does. the lawsays that the search without a warrant needs be reasonable and unreasonable in scope area the new york civil liberties have talkd about th. there is nothing reasonable about the government putting a tracng device on someone. we are not talking about this. and then for 30 days, even a weeklong vacation out-of-state.

neil: we discovered this in the course of doing this. >> i accept that other guest made a distinction there. there is no precedent for what she is going. and in the, i just don't agree. you know, i get that. but he was using his private car, saying that i am going to tell you that they had other

ways to prove th he still this money. >>t was eight we were onto taxpayers. >> i think it is more dangerous to society and taxpayers. no judge would say that there is probable cause. >> that meansthat they fire them. ey don't have thi down. they don't track people 2 hours a day. neil: okay, he stole the onuts from the 5-dollar store. okay, it is one thing when a

angry congressman says the president is hiding something. but when a former vice president of the united states says that, game changer

neil: e former vice president just pointed his finger at this president. when dan quale fix the white house and something really doesn't add up, just listen. >> ignorance will be his defense. that is the way it is, and who can blame it out of the loop on all of us. neil: ewart is out of the loop on things. >> you're not out of the loop. yoknoo what is going on.

let's talk to liz claman. >> former vice president said it was really interesting. because now we have the irs commissioner, former irs commissioner. he's visiting the white house i am not saying that he didn't make all of those 157 visits. but the point being thht it was right at the time when obamacare was being hotly opposed by the tea party. the house was set to turn or to republican leadership in 2010. if the president here is saying that have nothing to do with the targeting of tax-exempt groups, they turn over the memos and the meeting notes. just release them with the former irs commissioner. if he doesn't, the house committee on investigations and the subcommittee should subpoena them. >> one of the things that was

interesting is hat he still felt that ungodly, out of all the scandals that we had, whether it was the irs going after conervatives, that was the scandal that had the most itwould flip conventional wisdom. i understand that's involved in benghazi and we cannot make light of it. that is something that catches up with yu. so this president is out to lunch. is that any beer? >> well, i just link tha really -- you know, i just -- i don't think that is not. i thk it's interesting also that he would key in on benghazi. that is the weakest case. and i think that that is probably not very geerous to the president. i'm sure that the president was

aware of it, then the conversation was going on. but to pick on the situation -- it was not exactly on top of the details. it is a different subjec something that the situation with the irs wre someone was doing something wrong. these are two very different situations. neil: o the nxt day you are off to a political event. that alone, that states cluelessness or indifference. but i will put all hese together here. and an administration whose prime defense these day is out of the oop, we delivered this out of the loop. one crisis, two practices, three or four or five practices. now you're smoking something.

>> well, that is what it seems like. it seems that we're supposed to believe that this only comes whenreadthe telepromper. i think the president obama had to have known. this is supposedto be the most transparent administration ever and why doesn't he show us where he was at night. what the communications were one benghazi happen. and with the irs, release the memo and let us see what is going on what was happening. >> it is not just betwe the president and the irs commissioner. it is also valerie jrrett who was found in these controversies. the president is not a king, he is not royalty. he answers to the american peopnde was working for the american people. i say let the american people

decide. >> so in that vein, i do not think that it is funny or particularly generous. that is actually onef your best jokes. and it is funny. wedo notha the right to know wh the presidentad for lunch or at what time. >> wwill see. we are very insistent and very honorable. liz, what do you think? >> i think it gets worse.

i think that there will be -- i'm no sure but i think it gets more intense. neil: want to thank you, guys. i wi >> good evening. we want to assure you that we're focusing on what matters most to you and as our nation will be focused on the obama scandal and t administration desperate and transparent attempt to vert the attention of this broadcast and the national media as all we can assure you the axelrod's strategy is not going to work here in washington d.c. ere next week the house appropriations committee and that house ways and means committee hold more hearings into hu responsible for the ira's targeting of conservative groups and house