oil report. have a great night. we will see you on monday. welcome, everybody, i am neil cavuto. positive ratings are at 48% ad it is really startling in that same poll. it probably goesin line with two out three americans who now have a negative view of the irs. knowing all of tt, would you

do that? would you use the privacy law to justify not turning over informion to congressional investigators? it is true. these preventions meaning to prevent the disclosures of taxpayer information. o dozen times, essentially stopping lawmakers inquiries. the same institution that stopped over scores of individuals with reckless andon now clings to the very privacy laws that clearly abused. amazing. the irs just promoted ahead of that cincinnati office where all this nonsense went down in the first place. these guys wonder why their approval numbers are diving. ose are the menthat are beginning to die as well. as and homeoffice, parrt of the market. they say that markets the

marks are down. this thing is out of control. we make of it? >> it goes way beyond that. we are talking about conservative groups and i think that the proem with the irs is much me deeply ingrained in wh is ppening in the world. you and i have had conversations over the years. i think about a year ago telling you that in my working of the job creators alliance, we are trying to get business people together anyone who is basical a lobbyist could have as many as a thousand employees. those people who are running businesses, they are significant. let's say that i have 500 employees and i goo them and say, what do you think about the job alliance. theyhink a great idea, it's a

wonderful idea. but i have to be very honest. i say, who is going to get you? d you know, the goernment. i have never n my experience -- and i have been around for a long time, i have never seen business people afraid of their government before. neil you were a big prominent decrat. right onto this adminisration. i think that anybody who speaks out for her, yogo out and spkout about the cost of3 obamacare. if you tell the truth, they have all saidd the following to me. were not hiring full-time employees. we are hiring employees.

i say why, and they say you know why. okay. now, that is paranoia. they are prey to the irs, they are raid content afraid of epa and it all comes from big govement and it all comes from, you know, the pressures that are being brought on them politically. so i think it is a scary situation. i hope congress stays on it. i hope that they do not back off terry because thisis a reat problefor all of america. neil: i have to say, that it does not seem to be thwarting our efforts. as you know, they were doing this rafti of conservatives which was a couple of weeks ago.

my question is tis is if you are seeing these poll numbers that show seven out of 10 people think that special prosecutor should be looking into ths3 matter, or that two t of three americans just have a negative view of it, noe of that appears to be sinking in. if anything, it is emboldening them. >> well, if you feel as though you are immune from outside presre, by the way, these are all in ways of the government. it is very difficult to fire them. you say that we should fire them. but the truth is that that is not an easy process. neil: i know, you are right. >> so i do not think that -- i don't think this is going to go away. neil: what would change it? obviously a public uproar is one thing. invariably a president of the

administration is always kicking and screaming when it cos to special prosecutors for anything. but they usually give anyone a heads a fever pitch. just today they were saying no special prosecutor, we have this on our own, saying that you have nothing to worry about. nevertheless this i the attitude that we have anthey are not going to bend. the event? i think it will end. if the congress can keep going after them. we have thability to make those kind of decisions and it didn't happen. e only way to congress is going to ind out is by taking us. and i don't know, this first amendment is a very serious amendment. especially when you're on a

public payll. that is really seious. it is up to the congress. if they let it die away,t will die away. and if it dies away, it will embolden those people who do this mischief. they will feel that they are more able to get away with things ne: i'm sory to jump on you it like this, but can i get your perspective is a pretty good business right? gets back to sort o soething more stylistic here. that ithe president's defense, largely, that he was out of the loop in benghazi and what is going on. he's out of the loop by the irs.

so can you rely be in the loop, or does it say something about the style breeds this type of activity and should make us worry? >> let me give you my opinion. and this is only my persol opinion. when he knew that they were going to get obama and ben bradlee, where was he? i mean, this is a very serious matter and we have four people killed. it is a ver serious matter. it is an international incident and how does he say he doesn't know what happened? if that is the case, then this doesn't eak well for the president of united states. i don't know of another president, and i can go back to clinton, i can go back to bush. you know, you want to go back to

whoer you want to go back here. they would not be wearing something like that happening. not understanding until five days later what happened this is on foreign soil, these are american citizens that got killed. the only reason that the american people are not up because outside of fox and "the wall street journal", no one real knows about it. neil: he knew at the very least. so much we don't know.

>> what about the secretary of state? do you think that she would be totally aware of a? what does it matter? it is all over? to me it smells pretty bad even ifyou are a simpleton, i am a warner von braun. newsflash, i am not. always good to see you come and. >> take care of yourself. neil: burnie markets. one of the nicest gys in corporate america. meanwhile, relax, everybody. here he comes to save thday. the presidt said to do some pressuren student loans. chuck hagel. he is tough, they are rough. meet the former wrestlers who

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>> if congress doesn't act by july 1, federal loan rates are set to double. that means that the average udent will wrap up an additional $1000 in debt. it is like a thousand dollar tax hike. neil: that alarm you heard in the background is that it's happening. the president wants to give kids break to prevent those things. i wanted to step back and fathom what is going on here. we are talking about student loan rates from jumping o 6.8%. that is historically low by anne's standard. of course by comparison to the unreal low of 3.4% that students are enjoying now, t is really a big jimmy carter-ish. shouldhe government be

artificially keeping student loan rates ridiculousl low to hide the reality that this is unreal. oelrich liz macdonald. i understand that students want a part of it. but i just think it is crazy. >> yes, we do want to help our students. we are examining this because it is so scary and risky to our economy that could destabilize our economy. when you have student loan debt, you have subprime borrowers walking away from their loans. you have to save, what have we

done to her students do not have a good market fo these student loan. >> have we aided and abetted basically the college university system that basically is opating like a hotel empire. that is to have amenities, to have great cafeterias, expensive gin. thstents are paying tuition for this and they really can't afford it. neil: i like that. you know, one could argue, it would always be a shock to student seeing rates doubled. but at what point do we get back to natural market rates? obously those rates were much higher. especially when i was in school. the student discount rates -- they were based on a free-markt type of florida -- system. by the way, i would apply the same crics consider thfed

realisticall you know, having missed you at the realistic level that is not realistic. >> the proem is th whole system. we have this national id system where the government controls the rate. my problem is that the government make 336 cents on every llar it runs out. so they have this interest rate that they set and they are the only benefactors from it. it is not like the interest rate is contrled in this way that is the problem. the government is setting students up to fail by telling them they should go to college. taking out 50 grand in debt, it doest matter what a major in. we actually need toget students to think about what they they're going toajor in, how it will procure them to succeed. making them consider how much and once what they are ting out. that is smething that the system -- there is no restriction, there no screening

as to how many loans you can take out and how much you can take out . neil: my bigr issue with this is t easier you make it to provide funding for kids who might sorely need that funding -- i don't dismiss that. the more you make it easier for the institutions themselves to keep raising the prices because they say well, they are getting more loan money or cheaper loan money, we are going to keep jacking up this tuition d ro and boboard fees and all the re. >> this is one of the inances were completely agree with your thesis thones we have a thunderbolt? [laughter] >> i know how much thahat disappoints you. having thisday that, i would like to disagree a little bit. i agree with the preside that we have set up this horrible syst and we should not doubl the rates with e stroke of the pen. that is not good poicy. furthermore, the president should be using his bully pulpit

to address the kinds of issues that liz macdonald was talking about. i think that she i right. the costs have gone out of control. they are not always about education. this is somethingf where we could use leadership on. we are not going to get it from the academic institutions. he don't care. they are making their money. so ihink that we only get to focus at times. the government should help students with student loans. again, i agree with you. not ridicouslartificially low rates because that is not sustainable. neil: the whole system is weaned off the government. >> yes, the federal government took over in 2010. direct lders by the u.s. department of education. when you have the u.s. academic system, when it is built on the nonprofit system, you have to say to yourself, they have a pretty sweet over there. adam is right.

900 grand for the dean of the harvard law school. holy cow. so you have to say to yourself, if they -- there are a lot of fatcat academics. i would say reduce their tax exempt status to make them more marketable. >> i was going osay the same thing. we suld have a policy conversation about that. i'm might solve some of th problems. exactly, that is the problem. the lenders use to be attack on higher education. they wouldn't give you one if you're going to go to a battle that would allow you to get a job and pay it off your that is a problem that we are having. what higher education is doing is thasense that naturalization happened, college tuition has run up 25%. the average average graduating

student loan debt has gone up 20%. colles are just running rampant. neil: we are as close as we have ever been on any issue together. so it is a moment. when we come back, chuck hagel. this i have to.

neil: all right, the secretary of defense kicking up some dust. chinese officials with cybersecurity this weekend. john label says get ready for the attacks to continue their attack.

he can't pin these knuckleheads. but alas, he is here to offer his destined ara. how do we get back on offense? >> i think a lot of people don't understand it. we protect all of the routes around the world to through ch it's a fine line. neil: how do you draw a the fine line of sabotage. we have to tell them to knock this stuff up. neil: you say not enough, but what you do?

there have to be consequences for actions. if my father told me something as a kid, you know, there is none of that. whate do? we don't want to get into a trade war with them. what happens is we went through this with airbuses as the well. neil: bill clinton had the same approach. it goes back to jimmy carter, ronald reagan, you beter stop this routine, china has gotten richer and richer and more powerful.

>> hit them where they are the most formidable. take that away from them. ll them that they are not going to allow his that is what has to be done with sactions. if you have to do it to protect our company and our interests, by all means, put that onthe table that sanctions are an option they need us mo than we need them. we can go after them if we choose to. neil: all right, we shall see. the other option is for them to get in the ring and put this thing to rest. it is always good seeing you. thank you very much. >> it is great to see you. neil: no special prosecutor. with the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn eas unlimited rewas for his small business

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whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in. withremium service like one of the best on-time delivery records and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business. od. helping the world keep promises. neil: all right, right wing nut jobs going after eric holder. the respected professor and legal scholar. when george washington university professor joathan turlrley writes that it's time o fire eric holder, dare i say it cross examination on the right and the left. to the good professor monty

thinks the attorney general has overs that end not so much dereliction of duty, but losing credibility on duty. explain why you have to go. >> both have a lac of judgment. this is not his first scanal. several have you'd eric holder is a bit of a menace when it comes to basic rights. he was a guy who defended the policy of president obama. the media overlooks things for the protection o liberty. but you did hear what the administration did here. what they did was have a

comprehense attack on the free press. their defense raises even greater concerns about t commitment of first amendment values. they have agued that as long as they don't psecute someone like james rosen, it is really not a right repressed. which is really bizarre. we have a fourth amendment that protects against unlawfuu searches. it doesn't mean that they haven't invaded their privacy or violated the fourth amendment. what is most disturbing here is for people to once again be part of this administration. eric holder should go. i do not know what is worse. the fact that he knew nothing about thif he or something. eier wayhe is damaged goods. he doesn't service administration as well as he could.

neil: we are all for protecting americans and their rights and their lives. if this somehow gets mixed up in the sauce, understand what we were doing. >> every official who has been acsed of wrongdoing says that they have the best motives. no one disagrees that the leaking of classified information is a rime. the ior administration has focused their efforts on finding the leaker is. @%is administratiohas had a scorched-earth policy with regard to features and whistleblowers, this president has prosecuted twice for number people under the espionage act and all prior presiden put together. but to pursue people like james rosen is really beyond that.

it is not a closed question. that is where you don't go. you do not threaten journalists. you do not s information on these sources. >> i'm just wondering about the legal inflection point. the thin is it is grossly out of place for libertarians in regards to free press. the justicdepartment should not be in charge of this investigation. i'm a big supporter of independent counsels for that

reason. steve we are going to have a secret off the record meeting on this. >> what is also weird is that first of all, he came in and there was in this roll up your sleeves meetg. he said what he was planning to do. one person asked him questions. in this se, he has been accused of this and he personally signed off on what wait directors of on the free prs. that is the reason that i think the this meeting was a lite bit more. to give cover for themselves and thepresident.

at some point we had to put away our political division and stand with the constitution. including things that are vitally important. neil: we have the libeals who have often ionized air. you have a call. neil: sometimes when they are standing in line f for hours. you better getomething looking at that line. better get a few of them.

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neil: use a doughnut. just carpet down. what t heck. in the big apple, this eatery that features be filled donuts has folks coming out of the woodwork. again, $5 a pop. the very thing that wendy's is rolling out is a pretzel cheeseburger. fastfood making fas work of the fast food police. we have gary smith. very thifolks. all right they always forgeto pieces and they have some work to do. >> exactly. the fast food folks or the

critics. >> this is what i love about the storhere. capitalism at its finest. they are saying forget about conventional wisdom, forget about this. we are going to give people wha they really want, and honestly hope to make money. i applaud them for it or neil: keith, what you make of this? >> i am in the wrong business. five-dollar donuts, $7 for coffee. the one part of their goal is o police the over-the-top stuff. >> with jerry's point, this is

the quintessential example of the reed market. i think it is a great idea. >> windows aides, still great. it has been wayverstated and way over done. it was more than 100 million unit sold. you agree that, keith? >> i do not know. i back and forth. i st about threw mine out the window this morning because i couldn't find a portion of it. buyou know, if it is working and it's slinggreat. more pow to them. >> i guess that i rllycaught on fire.

>> i think that it is a great number. 100 million of anything fantastic area i think the bigger issue is how the media, the left leaning medias precting us. if you are in microsoft, ibm, gone for good exxon mobil, you have no good news. that is what i think the bigger story is. >> according to a new survey,y, being marriedavmore money. gary, were you surprised by that? >> im not surprised. but i guess inooking back over

my marriage, 25 years strong, i guess, i gues mbe you do have to work a little bit harder to maintain a successful marriage and make a lot of money. so i guess it was surprising, but in looking at a little bit deeper, maybe not so shocking. neil: when i ran into this rvey was as if it was a choice, either marriage or money . i thk that we understate the iortance of what the right partner can bring. and the ngevy and the cess that comes with that. >> i would agreend i think there's something else in the study that caughh my attention. when you are older, it didn't maer. so we don't know and we don' care. but either way, i think that

marriage is good and i was very happy to see that. >> i thi money still matters. u know, so i'm thinking about this. >> of course i does. we have to support the marriage, children, whatever comes with that. having a successl partner, i think is a premium that societies ned agency reurned remark all right, guys, thank you both so much. >> a state worker caught napping on the jobless job was bad. it gets worse. what d until youhear about another one suing the government to prove he was fudging his we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've kwn? we ge people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived wl into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one tng that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age.

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neil: let me be brief, this is not. i have two ver grea lawyers trying to make sense of his. you know, she says that he might have a case here. they have argued that in 2009 the police need to go to a judge and have probable cause before they can play this kind of tracki device on someone's property. in this case we are talking about this

neil: would he be suing for damages? would he make of that? >> the other guesstimate guest made a great point. this isn't a criminal case. let's just stop by for a second and understood this guys doing. he is basically stealing money. neil: so paying for his job, you know, that is what we are talking about. >> yes, that is not the only thing. this isn't a criminal ca. you know, it public employers

can search their employees. there is a limited one exception. all they need is reasonable suspicion. >> most of these states don't have the work requirements like new york does. the law sayshat the search without a warrt needs toe reasonable and unreasonable in ope area theneyork civil liberties hav talked abot is. there is nothing reasonable about the government putting a tracking device on someone. we are not talking about tis. and then for 30 days, even a weeklong vacation out-of-state.

neil: we discovered this in the course of doing this. >> i accept that other guest made a distinction there. there is no precedent for what she is going. and in the, i jst don't agree. you know, i get that. but he was using his private car, saying that i am going to tell you that they had other

ways to prove that he still this money. >> it was eight we were onto taxpayers. >> i think it is more dangerous to society and taxpayers. no judge would say that there is probable cause. >> that mean that they fire them. they don't have this down. they don't track people 24 hours a day. neil: okay, he stole the donuts from the 5-dollar store. okay, it s one thing when an

angry congressman says the president is hiding something. but when a former vice president of t united states says that, of t united states says that, game changer at od, whatever business you're in, that's the business wee in with premium service like one of the best on-time livery records and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business. od. helping the world keep promises.

neil: the former vice president just pointed his finger at this president. when dan quaye fixes the white house an something really doesn't add up, just listen. >> ignorance will be his defense. that is the way it is, and who can blame it. out of the loop on all of us. neil: ewart is out of the loop on things. >> you're not out of the loop. you knoo what is going on.

let's talk to liz claman. >> former vice president said it was really interesting. because now we have the irs commissioner, former irs commissioner. he's visiting the white house, i am not saying that he didn't ma all of those 157 visits. but the point being thht it was right at the time when obamacare was beinhotly opposed by the tea party. the house was set to turn over to republican leadership in 2010. if the president here is saying that i have nothing to do with the targeting of tax-exempt groups, they turn over the memos and the meeting notes. just lease them ith the former irs commissioner. if he doesn't, the house commite on investigations and the subcommittee should subpoena them. >> one of the things that was

interesting is that he stil felt that ungodly, out of all the scandals that we had, whether it was the ir going after conrvatives, that was the scandal that had the most it would flip conventional wisdom. i understand that's involved i benghazi and we cannot make light of it. that is somethi that catches up with you. so this president to lunch. is that any better? >> well, i just link that really -- you know, i just -- i don't thinink that is not. i think it's interesting also that he would key in on benghazi. that ithe weakest case. and i think that tt is probably not very generous to the president.

i'm sure that the president was aware of i, then the ersati was going on. but to pick on the situation -- it was not exactly on top of the details. it is a different subject something that the situation with the irs where someone was doing something wrong. these are two very different situations. neil: so the next day you are off to a political event. that alone, that states cluelessness or indifference. but i will put all these together here and an administration whose prime defense these days is out ofhe loop, we delivered this out of the loop. one crisis, two practices, three or four or five practices. now you're smoking something.

>> well, that is what it seems like. it seems that we're supposed to believe that thionlycomes when he reads the teleprompter. i think the president obama had to have known. thisis supposed to be the most transparent administration ever and why doesn't he show us where he was at night. what the communications were one behazi hapn. and with the irs, release the memo and let us see what is going on what was happenig. >> it is not just bween the president and the irs commissioner. it is also valerie jarrett who was found in these controveies. thepresident is not a king, he is not royalty. he awers to the american people and he was working for the american people. i say let the amrican people

decide. >> so in that vein, i do not think that it is funny particularly generous. that is actually one of your best jokes. and it is funny. we do not have the right to know what the president had for lunch or at what time. >> we will see. we are very insistent and very honorable. liz, what do you think?

>> i thihink it gets worse. i think that there will be -- i'm not sure but i think t gets more intense. neil: i want to thank you, guys. i wi ♪ ♪ >> conne: here we are coming at you from new york city. this is the best of imus on the fox business network. go morning. thanks for joining us. we have a terrific hour, some of the i-man's mos recent conversations, tony danza will be coming up in a few minutes and also country music legend vince gill and friend bill white on a very important issue. bill has been talking about unemployment in the veteran