welcome, everybody, i am neil cavuto. potive ratings are at 48% and it is really startling in that same pll. it probably goes in linewith two out of three americans who now have a negave view of the irs. kning l of that, would you do that?

would you use the privacy laws to justify not turning over information to congressional investigators? it is true. these preventionseaning to prevent the disclosures of taxper information. two dozen times, esentially stopping lawmakers inquiries. the same institution that stopped over scores of iividuals with recklless abandon now clings to the very pracy la that clearly abused. amazing. the irs just promoted ahead of that cincinnati office where all this nonsense went down in the first place. ese guys wonder why their approval numbers are ding. those are the men that are beginning to die as well. as and home office, part of the market. they say that markets the rkets are down.

this thing is out of control. we make of it? >> it goes way beyond that. we are talking about conservative gups and i think that the problem with the irs is much more deeply ingrained in what is happening in the world. you and i have had conversations over the years. i thinabout a year ago telling you that in my workg of he job creators allnce, we are trying to get business people together anyone who is asically a lobbyist could have as many as a thousand emloyees. those people who are running businesses, they are significant. let's say that i have 500 employees and i go to them and say, what do y think about the job alliance. they think a great idea, it's a wonderful idea.

but i have to be very honest. i say, who is going to get you? anyou know, the government. i have never in my experience -- and i have been around for a long time, i have never seen business people afraid of their governme before. neil: you were a big prominent democrat. right ont this adinistration. i think that anybody who speaks out for her, you go o and speak out about the cost of3 obamacare. if you tell the truth, they have all said the followi to me. we are not hiring full-time employees. we are hiring employees.

i say why, and they say you ow why. okay. now, that is paranoia. they are prey to thirs, they are raid ntent afraid of epa and it all comes from big government and it all comes from, you know, t pressures that are being brought on them politically. so i think it is a scary situation. i hope congress stays on it. i hope that they do not back off terry because this is a great problem for all of america. neil: i have to say, that it doesot seem to be thwarting our efforts. as you know, they were doing this rafting of conservatives which was a couple of weeks ago.

my questi is this is if you are seng these poll numbers that show seven out of 10 people think that special prosecutor should be looking io ths3 matter, or that two out of tee americans just have a negative view of it, none of that appears to be sinking in. if anything, it is emboldening them. >> well, if ou feel as tough you are immune from outside pressure, by the way, these are all in ways of the government. it is very difficult to fire them. you say that we should fire them. but the truth is that that is not an easy process. neil: i know, you are right. >> so i do not think that -- i don't think this is gog to go away. neil: what would change it? obviouslya public uproar isone thing. invariably a president of the

administration is always kicking and screaming when it comes to special osecutors for anything. but they usually give anyone a heads a fever pitch. just todayhey were saying no special prsecutor, we have this on our own, saying that you have nothing to worry about. nevertheless this is the attitude that weave and they are not going to bend. the event? >> i think it will end. if the coness can keep going after them. we have the ability to make those kind odecisions and it di't happen. the only way to congress is going to find outs by taking us. and i don't know, this first amendment is a very serious amendment. especially when you're on a public payroll. that is really serious.

it is up to the congress. if they let it die away, it will die aw. and if it dies away, it will embolden those people who do this mischief. they will feel that they are more able to get away with things. neil: i'm sry to jum on you ite this, but can i get your perspective is a prettgood busine right? gets back to sort of something more stylistic hee. that is the presidt's defense, largely, that he was out of the loop in benghazi and what is going on. he's out of the loop by the irs. so can you ally be inhe

loop, or does it say something about the style breeds this type of activity and should make us worry? >> let me give you my opinion. and this is only mypersonal opinion. when he knew that they were going toget obama and ben adlee, where was he? i mean, this is a very serious matter and we have foureople killed. it is a very serious matter. it is an international incident and how does he say he doesn't know what happened? if that is the case, then this doesn't speak we for the president of united states. i don't know of another president, and i can go back to clinton, i can go back to bush. you know, you want to go back to whoever you want to go back

here. they would not be wearing something li that happenin. not understaing untifive days later what happened this is on foreign soil, these are american citizens that got killed. the on reason that the american people are not up because outside of fox and "the wall street journal"no one really knows aut it. neil: he knew at the very east. so much we don't know.

>> what about the secretary of state? do you thik that she would be totally aware of? what does it matter? it is all over? to me it smells pretty a even if you are a simpleton, i am a warner von braun. newsflash, i am not. always good to see you come and. >> take care of yourself. neil: burnie markets. one of the nicest guys in corporate america. meanwhile, rax, everybody. here he comes to save the day. the presidt said to do some pressure on student loans. chuck hagel. he is tough, they are rough. meet the former wrestlers who

say it is time to stop this china syndrome. [ jackie ] its just so frustrating... ♪ the middle of this special moment and i need to run off to the bathroom.

♪ i'm fed up with always having to put my bladder's needs ahead of my daughter ♪ so today, i'm finally talking to myoctor about overactive bladder symptoms. [ female announcer ] know that gotta go feeling? ask your doctor about prescription toviaz. one toviaz pill a day significantly reduces sudden urges andccidents, for 24 hours. if you have certain stomach problems or glaoma, or can not empty your bladd, you should not take toviaz. get emergency medical help right away if your face, lips, throat or tongue swells. toviaz n cause blurred vision, dizziness, drowsine and decreed sweating. do not drive,perate machinery or do unsafe tasks until yoow how viaz affects you. the most common side effects are dry mouth and constipation. talk to your doctor about toaz.

>> if coress doesn't act by july 1, federal loan rates are set to double. that means that the veage student will wrap up an additional $1000 in debt. it is like a thousa dollar tax hike. neil: thatlarm you heard in the background is that it's happening. the president wants to give kids a break to prevent those things. i wanted to step back and fathom what is ing on here. we are talking about student an rates from jumping to 6.8%. at is historically low by anyo's standard. of course by compison to the unreal low of 3.4% that students are enjoying now, it is really a big jimmy carter-ish. should the govrnment be

artifially keeping student loan rates ridiculously low to hid the reality that this is unreal. oelrich liz macdonald. i understand that students want a part of it. but i just think it is cazy. >> yes, we do want to help our students. we are examining this because it is so scary and risky to our economy that could destabilize our economy. when you have student loan debt, you have subprime borrowers walking away from their loans. you have to save, what havewe done to her students do not have

a good market for these student loan >> he we aided and abetted basically the college university system that basically is operating like a hotel empire. that is to have amenities, to have great cafeterias, eensive gin. the students a paying tuition for this and they really can't afford it. neil: i like that. you know, one could argue, it would always be a shock to student seeing rates doubled. but at what point do w g back to natural market rates? obviously thosrates were much higher. escially when i was in schoo the student discount rates -- they were bsed on a fre-market type of florida -- system. by the way, i wouldpply the same ctics consider the fed

realistically, you know, having missed you at the realistic level that is not realistic. >> the problem is the whole system. we have is national id system where the government controls the rate. my problem is that the government make 336 cents on every dollar it ru out. so they have this interestate that they set and they are the only benefactors from it. it is not like the interest rate controlled in this way. that is the problem. the government is setting students up to fail by telling them they should go to college. taking out 50 grand in debt, it doesn't matter what a major in. we actually need to get students to think about what they they're going to major in, h it will procure them to succeed. making them consider how much and once what they are taking out. that is something that the system -- there is no restrictio there no screening

as to how many loans you can take out and how much you can take out the. neil: my bigger issue with this is the easier you make it to provide funding for kids who might sorely need that funding -- i don't dismiss that. the more you make it easier for the institutions themselves to keep raising therices because they say well, they are getting more loan money or cheaper loan money, we are going to keep jacking up this tuition and room and board feesnd all the rest. >> this is one of the instances were completely agree with your thesis the ones we have a thunderbolt? [laughter] >> i kw how much that disappoints you. having this day that, i would like to disagree a little bit. i agree with the president that we have set up this horrible system and we should not double the rates with the stroke of the pen. that is not good policy. furthermore, the president should be using his bully pulpit to addressheinds of issues

that liz macdonald was talking about. i think that she is right. the costs have gone out of contro they are notlways about education. this is something of where we could use leadersh on. we are not going to get it from the acadic institutions. he don care. they are making their money. so i think that we only get to focus atimes. the government should help students with student loans. again, i agree with you. not ridiculously artificially low rates cause that is not sustainable. neil: the whole system is weaned off the government. >> yes, e federal government took over in 2010. direct lendersthe u.s. department of education. when you have the u.s. academic system, when it is built on the nonprofit system, you have to say to yourself, they ha a pretty sweet over there. adam is right.

900 grand for the dea of the harvard laschool. holy cow. so you have to say to yourself, if they -- there are a lot of fatcat academics. i would say reduce their ta exempt status to make them more marketable. >> i was going to say the same thing. we should have a policy conversation about that. i'm might solve some of the problems. exactly, thatis the problem. the lenders use to be attack on higherducation. they wouldn't give you one if you're going to go ta battle that would allow you to get a job and pay it off your that is a problem that we are having. what higher education is doing ishat sense that naturalization happened, college tuition has run up 25%. the average average graduating

student loan debt s gone up 20%. colleges are just running rampant. neil: we are as close as we have evereen on any issue together. so it is a moment. when we come bck, chuck hagel. when we come bck, chuck hagel. this i have to [ male announcer ] summer is here. and so too is the summer event now get an incredible offer on the powerful, efficient c250 sport sedan with an agility control sport-tuned suspension. but hurry before this oppouny... disappears. the mercedes-benz summer event ends soon. ♪ ♪ [ pizza dodging man's mouth ] ♪ ♪

[ camera shutter clicks ] [ male announcer ] fight pepperoni heartburn and pepperoni breath fast with tums freshers. concentrated relief that goes to work in seconds and freshens breath. ♪ tum...tum...tum... tum...tums! ♪ tums freshers. fa heartburn relief and minty fresh breath. [ agent sth ] i'e found softwa that intgues me. it apars it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ]

of defense kicking up some dust. chinese officials with cybersecurity this weekend. john label says get ready for the attacks to continue their attack. he can't pin these knucklehds.

but alas, he is here to offer his destined area. hodo we get back on offense? >> i think a lot of people don't understand it. we proct all of the route around the world to gohrough china. it's a fine line. neil: how do you draw a the fine line of sabotage. we have to tell themo knock this stuff up. neil: you say not enough, but what you do? there have tobe consequences

fo actions. if my father told me something as a kid, you know, there is none of that. what we do? >> we don't want to get into a trade war with them. what happens is we went through this with irbuses as the well. neil: bill clinton had the same approach. it goes back to jimmy carter, ronald reagan, you beter stop this routine, china has gotten richer and richer and more powerful.

>> hit them where they are the most formidable. take that away from them. tell them that they are not going to allow this that is what has to be done with sanctions. if you have to do it to protect our company and our interests, by all means,put that on the table th sanctions are an option they need us more than we need them. we can go after them if we choose to. neil: all right, we shall see. the other option is for them to get in the ring and put this thing to rest. it is always good seeing you. thank you very much. >> it is great to see you. neilno special prosecutor. we fou

neil: all right, right wing nut jobs going after eric holder. the respected professor and legal scholar. when george washington university prossor jonathan tuey writes that it's time to fire eric holder, dare i sayit cross examination on the right and the left. to the good professor monty thinks the attorney general has

overs that end not so muchdereliction of duty, but losi credibilityn duty. explain whyou have to go. >> both have a lack of judgment. this is not his first scandal. several have you'd eric holder is a bit of a menace when it comes to bas rights. he was a guy who defended the policy of president obama. the media verlooks things for the protection of liberty. but you did hear what the administration did here. what they did was have a

comprehensive attack on the free press. their defense raises even greater concerns about the commitment of first amendnt values. they have argued that as long as they don't prosete someone like james rosen, it is really not a right repressed. which is really bizarre. we have a fourth amendment that protects against unlawfuu searches. it doesn't mean that they haven't invaded their privacy or violated the fourth amendment. what is most disturbing here is for peopto once again be part of this administration. ericholder shld go. i do not know what is worse. the fact that he knew nothing about this or if he or something. either way, he is damaged goods. he doesn't service administration as well as he could.

neil: we are all for protecting americans and their rights and their lives. if this somehow gets mixedp in the sauce,understand what we were doing. every official who has been accused of wrongdoing says that they havthe best motives. no one disagrees that the leaking of classified information is a crime. the prior administration has focused theieffortson inding the leaker is. @%is admistration has had a scorched-earth policy with regard to features and whistleblowers, this president haprosecuted twice for number peopleunder the espionage act and all prior presidents put together. but to pursue people like jmes rosen is really beyond that.

it is not a closed question. that is ere you don't t go. you do not threaten journalists. you do not see information on these sources. >> i'm just wondering about the legal inflection point. the thing is it is grossly out of place for libertarians in regards to free press. the justice department should not be in charge of this investigation. i'm a big supporter of independent counsels for that reason.

steve we are going to have a secret off the record meeting on this. >> what is also wei is that first of all, he came in and there was in this rolup your sleeves meeting. he said what he was planning to do. one person asked him quetions. in this case, he has been accused of this d he personally signed off on what was it directors of on th free press. that is the reason that i think the this meeng was a little to give cover for themselves and the pesident.

at some point we had to put away our political division and stand with the constitution. including ings that are vitally important. neil: we have the liberals who have often ionized air. you have a call. neil: sometimes when they are standing in line for hours. you better get something looking at that line. better get a few of them.

neil: use a doughnut. just carpet down. what the heck. in the big apple, this eatery that features be filld donuts has folks coming out of the woodwork. ain, at $5 a pop. the very ting that wendy's is rolling out is a pretzel cheeseburger. fast food making fast work of the fast food police. we have gary smith. very thin folks. all righ. they always forget to pces and they have some work to do. >> exactly the fast food folks or the

critics. >> this is what i love about the story here. capitalism at its finest. they are saying forget about conventional wisdom, forget about this. we are gng to give people what they really wan, and honestly hope to make money i applaud them for it or neil: keithwhat you make of this? >> i am in the wrongusiness. five-dlar donuts, $7 for coffe the one part of their goal isto police the over-the-top stuff. >> with jerry's point, this is

the quintessential examp of the reed market. i think it is a great idea. >> windows aides, still grat. it has been way overstated and way over done. it was more than 100 million unit sold. you agree that keith? >> i do not know. i go back and forh. i just about threw mine out the window this morning because i couldn't finind a portion of it. but you know, if it is working and it's selli, great. more power to them. >> i guess that realy caught on fire.

>> i think tt it is a great number. 100 million of anything is fantastic area i ink the biggerissue is how the media, the left leaning media is protecting us. if you a in microsoft, ibm, gone for good exxon mobil, yo have no good news. that is what ihink the bigger story is. >> according to a new survey, being married have more money. gary, were you surprised by that? >> i am not surprised. but i guess in looking back over my marriage, 25 years strong, i

guess, i guess maybe you do have to work a little bit harder to maintain a successful marriage and make a lot of money. so i guess it was surprising, but in looking at a little bit deeper, maybe not so shoking. neilwhen i ran into this survey was as if it was a choice, either marriage or money . i think that we understate the impornce o what the right partner can bring. and the longevity and the access at comes with hat. >> i would aee and i think there's something else in e study that caughh my atention. when you are older, it didn't matter. so we don't know and we don't re. but either way, i think that

marriage is good and i w very happy to see that. >> i tnk money still matters. you know, so i'm thinking about this. >> of courseit doe we have to support the marriage, children, whatever comes with that. having a successful partner, i think is a premium that societies need agency returned remark all right, guys, thank you both so much. >> a state worker caught napping on the jobless job was bad it gets worse. what do until you hear about another one suing the goernment to prove he was fudging his we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is t oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and th's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much the official retirement age.

♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ to enjoy a♪l of these years. (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. noolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities.

il: let me be brief, this is not. i have two very great lawyers trying to make sense of this. you know, she says that he might have a case here. they have argued that in 2009 the police need to go to a judge and have probable cause before they can play this kind of tracking device on someone's property. in this case we are talking about this.

neil: would he be suing for damages? would make of that? >> the other guesstimate guest made a great point. this isn a criminal case. let's just stop by for a second and understood this guys doing. he is basically stealing money. neil: so paying for his job, u know, tha is what we are talking about. >> yesthat is not the ly thing. this isn't a criminal case. you nw, it public emplors

can search their employees. there is a limited one exception. all they need is reasonable suspicion. >> most of these states don't have the work requirements like w york does. the law says that the search without a warrant needs to be rereasonable and ueasonable in scope area the new york civil liberties have talked about this. there is nothing rsonable about the government putting a tracking device on someone. we are not talking abut this. and then for 30 days,ven a weeklong vacation out-of-state.

neil: we discoved this in the course of doing this. >> i accept that other guest made a distinction there. there is no precedent for what she is going. and in the, i just don't agree. you know, i get that. but he was using his private car, saying that i am going to tell you that they had other

ways to prove that he still this ney. >> it was eight we were onto taxpayers. >> i think it is more dangerous to society and taxpayers. no judge would say tat there is probable cause. >> that means that hey fire them. they don't have this down. they don't track people 24 hours a day. neil: okay, he stole the donuts from the 5-dollar store. okay, it is one thing when an

angry congressman says the president is hiding something. but when a fmer ce esident of the united states says tha [ ... l erectile dysfunctio get in your way? talk to your doctor viagra. ...... that ilved in benghazi and we cannot make

light of it. that is sommething thacatches up with yu. so this president is out to lunch. is that any better? >> well, i just link that really -- you know, just -- idon't think tha is not. i think it'snteresting also that hewould key in on benghazi. that is the weakest case. and i think that that is probably not very generous to the president. i'm sure that the president was awe of it, thenthe

conversation was going on. but ick on th situation -- it was not exactly on top of the details. it is a different subject something that the suation with the irs where someone was doing something wrong. these are two very difrent situations. neil: so th next day you e off to a political event. that alone, that states cluelessness or indifference. but i will put all these together here. and an administration whose prime defense these days is out of the loop, we deivered this out of the loop. one crisis, two practices, three or four or five practices. now you're smoki something.

>> well, that is what it seems like. it seems that we're supposed to believe that this only comes when he reads the teleprompter. i think the president obamahad to have known. this is supposed to be the most transparenadminiration ever and y doesn't he show us whe he was at ight. wh the communications were one benghazi happen. and with the irs, release the memo and let us see what is going on what was happening. >> it not just between the president and the irs commissioner. it is also valerie jarrett who was found in these contversie the president is not a king, he is not yalty. he answers to the american people and he was rking for the american people. i say let the american people

decide. >> so in thatvein, i do not think that it is funny or particularly generous. that is actually one of your best jokes. and it is funny. we do not have the right to know what the president had for lunch or at what time. >> we will see. we are very insistent and very honorable. li what do you think? >> i think it gets worse.

i think that there will be -- i'm not sure bu i think i gets more intense. neil: i want to thank you, guys. i wi >> tom: with all the scandals rocking washington, there is plenty of advice going on. how should the president react. can congress really get answers and solutions. sage advice is needed. so let's ask a man who served many presidents and spent a long time in our nation's capital. we're talking with donald rumsfeld right here and right now. >> tom: thanks for joining us. here at the top of the stack, the government, his government service started as a naval aviator then as a congressman. he ran the office of economic opportunity the ambassador of nato. white house chief