thank you for watching. [applause] . remember all those dire predictions about those scary mandatory spending cuts? democrats told us they'd send the economy crashing and burning. well, those cuts kicked in, and look what's kicking uu, home sales, home prices, consumer confidence, stocks and even jobs in the d.c. area where those cuts were supposed to hit hardest. so is this all proof we should keep the cuts coming? hi, everybody. i'm brenda butner. this is bulls and bears. welcome, everybody. john, bring on more cuts? >> yes! absolutely.

brenda, look, we all said this. everybody on the show said this was about 2% of the budget. this wasn't going to make any difference long term. we had democratic strategisss on here, all these politicians and all the be stronger if we hadn't had these cuts. >> well, that's right. i think by john's logic we may as well pat ourselves on the back for raising taxes because we recently did that and maybe we should credit those for the higher economy. the fact of the matter is tax hikes and spending consult inie

economy in the long run. it's like watching somebody crawl out of the bed after a flu. you say, you're feeling better, go rake the yard and amake us dinner. more tax hikes and spending cuts would be the mistake. >> stefan logic sometimes is hard. let me say this, there's markets and then there's the congress. the congress thinks they're smarter than the markets. markets has come back. why? housing, there isn't enough inventory. supply and demand. congress couldn't even screw that up. our economy is up, why? because the federal reserve is stronger than everyone here, the 800-pound gorilla that turnn out to be the 8,000-pound gorilla. to john'ses point, we couldn't absorb a $100 billion cut in a titanic of $15 trillion? come on. >> joan what do the economic ti tell you about the spending cuts? >> i think now it's pretty

obvious that spending cuts and tax increases if done too early don't work. most countries in the world, except for china, are having major troubles because they did what we're doing a couple years too early and they have growth problems because of it. our stock market is beating all the european countries, foreign countries. we have the best gdp of the larger countries not including china as usual. it's because we didn't do it too early. you want to do it but not during a recession. that's what we did. the take-away is we want to continue it, but we don't need to go overboard. we proved to the world we will pay or debts, we can continue the tax increases and spending cuts over a longer time, maybe over ten years and not burden a slowly growing economy with austerity. it's a good path, the year to do it. >> jonas says it shouldn't go overboorpd, but wasn't this just a drop in bucket? >> exactly, brenda. look, i think john layfield alluded to this.

or maybe toby did. these cuts amounted to 0.3% of our gdp. people are like, oh, my gosh, the sequester. it was really a drop in the bucket. now, per jonas' point, he says, oh, my gosh, this went all awry in europe. yeah, the parpt tht that went an europe was the raising of the taxes. austerity? they went back and studied in 2012 which countries actually cut spending. you know what? there were three countries, germany, sweden and malta. two of those countries are doing the best in the e.u. as far as economic resurgence, germany and sweden. so the fact you can say, oh, my gosh, this austerity is killing europe, wrong, because they didn't have austerity. they never cut spending. what they did is raise taxes. that's the wrong way to go. we're going the right way by cutting spending. we need to do it not 0.3% but how about 3% of gdp. then we're on the right path. >> john, stocks have done

incredibly this year. i think the dow is up some 16% so far this year and we're taking a look at some of the stekt sectors. what does that say, that the spending cuts really may have given a good signal to wall street? >> no. i disagree with that. i think the stock market is detached from the economy of united states. you look at the stock market. it has absolutely roared the last few years. you cannot say that about the economy. the economy right now is a true goldie locks economy. it's not that great, not really that bad. but what the markets look at is, is somebody going to be able to rein in this fiscal irresponsibility? we are on a road that's unsustainable. and to stefan's point, he ought to be a politician. let's not raise taxes, not reform the tax code and let's never cut spending. we'll deal with that next year sometime or somewhere in the year 2020. >> senator stefan, we've got to give him a chance to respond. >> well, i've got to say, john, i love you but you've got to

tlern how to declare victory. the deficit right now, we're headed for below 4% of gdb. it's going to be probably below 2% in a couple of years. if you basically would just learn how to stand pat and finds something to worry about, this economy will heal itself. you have to let it shuffle around. >> stefan, you're saying don't rein in any sfending at all. we're fine with medicare, medicaid, social security, we're fine right now, we're perfectly okay? >> what i'm saying is, just inch along, learn how to dlir victory and stop acting like you have to be in a paing. >> stefan, if you ever follow -- wrestling career, he didn't have victories so he doesn't know how to claim it. >> ghive me a break. he was the champion of the world! >> thank you, brenda. >> whatever, whatever. >> the important point here is,s the market is short term driven by all -- but the bigger issue

here is, if we don't get at the real stuff, the $20 trillion of deficit will come from the baby boomers' retirement because social security, medicare and so on, then we really have a problem. we've kick the can down the road. but we're not nearly at the point where we can see the markets are so comfortable because of the reasonable spending that they're willing to go out and invest. that's when we know we'll be growing. >> let me ask jonas about that because you said you can't go overboard, but are those the cuts we really need? >> yeah, but those are long term. we solved the very immediate problem, trillion-dollar defi t deficits, year after year. so did a state like california, raise taxes, cut spending, problems gone right now. they're running budget surpluses. the longer term problems which are real and could bring us to our knees are out a few years. the solution can be long and gradual, can be minor benefit cut over 20 years, minor payroll tax spread out over 10 or 20, doesn't need to all kick in next year and solve a problem that

really grows over time. that's an easier problem to solve if we can get together. >> gary? >> i want to get back to one important point. stefan is saying we shouldn't cut spending. i agree with him. we shouldn't cut spending. the question he is, who is going to do the spending? we keep arguing, don't kutz government spending. say cut government spending. let the private sector spend. when we spend a dollar in the public sector, that decreases gdp. let the private sector repair the bridges, build the highways, privatize tsa. that's where you're going to get the bacng for the buck. >> thanks, guys. what's the difference between you hiring a lawyer when the irs is going after you and the irs hiring a lawyer when taxpayers are going after it? you pay either way. shouldn't that be a crime?

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♪ wring on the wall ♪ ♪ one boocan make a difference ♪ ♪ one book can inspire a child ♪ one book can be the fundamental thing ♪ ♪ that helpso change a life ♪ book people unite read to child today and spark a lifetime of ambition. add it to our tax tab. the irs lawyering up with a pricey attorney to handle the fallout from the scandal. this even though the tax man has nearly 1500 lawyers already on the payroll. gary b., should taxpayers be paying this bill? >> this is a good one, isn't it, brenda? i mean, you cannot walk down constitution avenue in this town without running into an attorney. forget about the 1500 at the irs. there's probably 15,000 spread across the various departments of constituencies in this town

that could be employed free of charge. you know, the other thing -- the big question is, why are they hiring an attorney? if procter & gamble had a problem with the marketing department, does the marketing department hire an attorney? no. they investigate what happened, figure out what went wrong and fire the people who screwed up and fix the problem. this is a fixable thing, hopefully, if we can find someone independent to analyze it. >> come on, it's washington. remember that, gary. stefan, should you actually let tax lawyers deal with this kind of issue? >> well, i think there's your problem, right? gary makes a good point. there are a lot of lawyers over there, but they're tax lawyers. i guarantee you they it don't know what they're doi ining whe comes to crime. i'm sure criminal attorneys hire tax attorneys when it comes to april. it's a matter of specialized areas of the law, also just a matter of good governance.

these knnit wits in the irs who got us into trouble, it's a serious issue but the fact of the matter is they're going to need new lawyers to keep that agency operating correctly. it's just the write thing to do. >> go ahead john, wwe champion. >> look, i was agreeing with stefan with the nit wit comment until he said they should hire lawyers. let me get this straight. they broke the law and then they're going to investigate themselves and then hire lawyers and the very people that they broke the law against to investigate around the midterm elections, their taxes are going to go to pay the lawyers being used to defend them against themselves. is that right? look, i'm getting audited. how about a couple of things. i will come out right now it and say obama care is the best thing ever. i'll ask the government to pay for my lawyer as well. >> jonass, you don't quite agree with that, do you? >> i know it's easy to beat up on the irs and lawyers. >> yes, it is! >> if procter & gamble was under

investigation to accuse them of doing something wrong and everyone was foaming at the mouth to destroy someone's career or send them into jail, i guarantee you high-priced attorneys would be called with shareholders' money. in america, if taxpayers need money, they are appointed attorneys. irs people don't make the kind of money some do. i don't know what they did. all i know is they deserve taxpayer attorneys as does anybody who can't afford their own attorney. >> this is a pure washington, d.c., thing. only in washington, d.c., would you not investigate yourself and then when you do get investigated you give the taxpayers the bill. it's the only logic that works in washington. the rest of the world is laughing their butts off. >> gary b., laughing?

>> i was laughing because you know what's going to happen? the irs will get a clean bill of health and actually somehow make money off this thing. >> right. >> at the taxpayers' expense. toby has it right. it's the greatest shell game in the world. >> all right, jonas. come on. >> the irss may not have broken any laws first of all. we all are accusing them and -- >> what is this, the jonas lawyer show? >> america was built on you are presumed innocent and you get an attorney. that's the way it works here. it's not -- we don't have kings. just the decree that you broke some law. maybe there wasn't a law. >> jonas, you pay for your own attorney. >> the people you wronged don't have to pay for your attorney. that's why doing something wrong to toby and ask toby to pay for my attorney to defend against him. >> every day my money is paying for criminals to have attorneys. >> so use one of the existing attorneys out there. use someone from the department

of justice. >> look, good news -- >> they're very busy in traffic court. i was just down in traffic court and there was a doj attorney. they're doing the important stuff. >> those attorneys are on payroll. that's like saying it's a public defender. >> oh, come on. >> how about we abolish the irs and attorneys. >> you want them to hire attorneys with their irs paychecks. >> hopefully this wasn't an hourly hire. that's the only thing i'm worried about. guys, fed-up fliers, get ready to get fed up even more. the white house pushing a new tax for passengers. forget owning our debt. is the biggest fear from china owning our food?

forget worries about the chinese buying up our debt. a chinese company is buying up u.s.-based smithfield foods, the largest pork producer in the billion.he deal worth about $5 toby, you say this raises major safety concerns. >> of course it does. you have to look at chinese history, not the rhetoric. it started with lead paint, we had contaminated milk, poison basically substitute vitamins and pharmaceuticals. they've had a history as they've grown as a country as being more and more off base and just wrong and criminal in many cases and they don't care. i've ddne business with these people for years, and these are

not toys, these are not cell phones. this is food. we don't know if they substitute grain, if they put a new type of drugs in these pigs. it is the worst decision you could make. they can't be trusted. they've shown that. >> stefan? >> well, i'm not quite as -- as that, but i find this unsettling. we saw a video a few weeks ago of 16,000 fed pigs in a chinese river. we have a very important role being played right now by our government because they'll be reviewing this carefully to see if there's a threat to national security, important technology that's being moved over to china through this acquisition. but i don't think this is ne that we should be too happy with. i don't think the chinese record on food safety is strong enough for us to be comfortable. >> gary b., are you worried? >> no. i'm flabbergasted. first of all, this deal is to e export to them pork from

smithfield. it's not importing food. if you're worried about food from china, we get now like 90% of our at that laup ya, 50% of our apple juice, 10% of our frozen spinach, we have food coming in here. if you're worried about, okay, we'll retaliate sending food over there, we send a lot of food over there, soybeans, chick i en, beef, the biggest growing camile out there. wre, we have a lot of things to worry about, i don't think this is one of them. >> jonas? >> i don't know about that security threat. they'll know how our sausage is made? it doesn't seem to elevate to the level of the dubai port. whatever. i will say we would be in a position to stop this if we couldn't do the same thing. look, are we allowed to buy their companies? i it believe mccormack the spike company is buying a chinese bullion maker as well. if we can do it to them, fine. there's a lot of dayses where

their government owns their companies, i'm sure we couldn't take stake in the u.s. company. in that case, we should say, you can't buy that kind of company here. i don't see a security threat. it's an important issue about the quality they have there. we should be able to inspect their factories. ttis is a u.s. plant so we already do this. >> wait, john. this is our bacon! >> yeah, and look, nobody likes to roast a pig than a good old southern boy here. if you seen what goes into hot dogs, i agree they're pretty bad as they are. i agree with toby. we cannot trust them, but i also agree with gary b. and jonas and stuffin, look thshgs is a deal it's a matter of standards. as long as the standards are put in place, we get a lot of food from china. we're the agricultural ex-porter like saudi arabia is of oil. we have standards in place. if they have to be heightened, they should pay for it. nearly 40% of americans say they gained weight on the job,

and one name could have you gaining profits because of it.

>> p. >> predictions, gary b., take it away! >> thank god brenda the health craze is over. people are eating junk food again it! krispy kreme doubles in the next year. >> toby? >> that's like 50% in three days. >> i like the housing sector. i tell you there aren't many cheap stocks left in it, but

usg, the maker of sheetrock is one. i think that will do well in the next few years. >> jonas? >> bear. >> your prediction? >> more stories that employers are using facebook and social media to fire people and not hire them. as many as one in ten employees my age and lower are not getting jobs. this is good for manpower, temp agencies. >> i can't imagine your facebook page is anything to be ashamed of. stefan, bull or bear? >> good story stocks too expensive, bear on that. >> john, your prediction? >> online gambling, zinga is betting big. >> gary b., bull or bear? >> i'm bearish. >> toby, your prediction? >> summer is hot now, that means beer. john layfield single-handedly has had tap and coors light. >> i cannot believe -- you're a bear on this, john? >> not possible. >> no, no. toby has swiiched to wine drinking so i'm 0 a bear on beer

stock until he switches back. >> john, single-handedly consumed more coors light in the history than colorado. >> talk about cold beer, we've got the heat coming on. cavuto. why do it nice and easy when you can do it nice and rough? good evening, neil cavuto. this little tweet from some dnc twit criticizing all the media companies opting out of that offthe record meeting with attorney general eric holder to discuss ironically this whole secrecy mess, and i quote, petus asked ag to review leak investigations are done but some in the media refuse to meet with him. so many news organizations still opted out. maybe they all