rest of the world know 0 it and buy the stock? >> because they're not as smart as charles. >> you're atching the place for all things business, fox. so call it the summer of the sell. despite the massive premium hikes, the president's health care laws is cause, the obama administration is kicking off a sirm long tour to push and promote it. maybe they should stop 0 at one doctor's office in maine. he has a great plan that avoids insurance altogether. he posts his prices, specific prices, online so patients can actually see what they pay for out of pocket. and he says it's a free market fix to the nation's exploding medical costs. is he right, or is he wrong? hi, everybody, i'm david as man. welcome to forbes on fox. let's go in focus with mr. steve forbes, ricking unger, richard karl guard, elizabeth mcdonald and john tandy.

steve, first, is this the solution everybody's been looking for? >> absolutely. getting free markets in health care is the only way to go, doing away with the disconnect between providers and consumers we don't have free markets today. if we did, you'd get productivity, turn very expensive procedures today into more common place things tomorrow. so this is it a good start. it can start with simple routine things an go right up to the most sophisticated surgery. when patients are in charge, it's their money, by golly you get real bargains, including lasik surgery costs less today than it did ten years ago. why? because there's not that disconnect between providers and consumers. >> it's not just the patients. when patients and doctors together go around looking for bargains, that's what brings down the prices, rick unger. i'm looking at some of his menu here, if you will, of what he offers, an office visit is 75 bucks, including a diabetes follow-up if you need one. a joint injection of court i sewn costs 50 bucks. rick, that usually costs liking

$200 when you do it through the insurance programs. and he goes on and on. by the way, urinalysis is only 10 bucks, a lot cheaper than what my doctor spends the through the insurance companies. >> listen, this is terrific if you're talking about the lower chaing raings of expenditures. this guy happens to be a general practitioner. he's not doing the big stuff. the real money, unfortunately, in this country in health care is being spent on heart disease, trauma, cancer. these are the big three costs. unfortunately, when you're dealing with those kinds of problems, you don't go shopping. you're not going shopping for a better deal when it comes to chemotherapy. when you need your chest cracked open, you're not looking for the bargain ever the week. you're looking for the doctor who gives you the best chance of survival. >> rich, the fact is i just had a checkup and i have my bills. all the tests, diagnosticing bills add up to $1,200. now, my out of pocket is a couple hundred bucks but the insurance costs that go into pay forge this thing are enormous. these are big expenses.

maybe having catastrophic insurance program for if you need what rick was talking about. but for everything else, do what this doctor is doing. >> yeah. steve forbes likes to point out in his speeches that, imagine if restaurants didn't publish prices on their menu. everybody would order the most expensive meal and the most expensive bottle of wine if they knew somebody else was paying for it. on lasik, i had lasik in the year 2000, it cost 5 grand. same doctor is operating at 2800. how do i know that? i can go on the web and find it. the competitive price pressure has been very good. i recommend lasik to both steve and rick. they would become even more handsome than they are today, by the way. >> i could use a little of that, too. but morgan, the fact is it's true, the marketing works even in medicine, when you get competitive prices out there, the prices come down. people compete. >> that may be true for primary care physicians and specifically private practice priiary care physicians but that's not where

the ballooning health care costs are taking place. you need to look at hospitals, medical devices and you need to look at insurance but not just insurance administrative costs. actually malpractice, the amount of that. >> which president obama didn't want to touch in obama care. >> because of all his lawyer friends. >> i think this is a great idea on a base level when you're going to see the family doctor if you can afford out of pocket. but at the end of the day it doesn't get to the larger issues. hospitals and i think rich will appreciate this, you need to see disruption there. clayton christiansen has put out theories and you need at malpractice insurance. >> you talk about exploding costs. anybody who bothers to look at their bills before they send them off to insurance companies on these diagnostic tests, the tests are exploding, the office visits are exploding. by the way, this guy actually does house calls as well for 200 bucks. >> oh, my god, i want his number. listen, i totally agree with steve and rich carlguard. i've talked to brain surgeons,

doctors who deliver babies. they routinely say that we've got too much government filler in hospital costs, and they could bring the charge to our viewers down if they're allowed to have more free market practices in their health system. with health reform there's a lot of government filler in the ricking unger-style system. 22,000 diagnostic codes now that hospitals have to report, injuries to the government under those 22,000 different items. and that is crazy. >> yeah. but hold on. john, the fact issthat, while the government wants insurance to pay for everything, whether it's private -- government-controlled private insurance or straight government insurance, via medicare or medicaid, this guy 0 is refusing all insurance saishgs pay cast. a lot of times my out-of-pocket pay is more than what this guy is charging. >> i think the doctor clearly

understands human nature. when we're spending money not our own, we're naturally less careful. when it's our money we're more careful. it would be interesting to have more businesses do exactly what steve and rick described, have catastrophic insurance for the unthinkable, for when you're getting your chest cracked open, for the basic, routine visits, people should pay for that out of pocket or through a medical savings account where it's your money paying for it. you'll be far more careful what you do. >> steve? >> that's absolutely true. when you get real free markets you'll see much more innovation in medical devices and how these procedures are done. they've made some progress but i think in a free market they'd make more. so it's not settling for less. it's getting more for less, just as we do everywhere else in the economy. >> morgan, doesn't that make sense? >> i think there's a presumption that everybody will be able to afford to pay out of pocket to see that physician . >> well, we have to pay out of pocket after the insurance coverage now. >> you know what? that's why those costs are still

more expensive for the person who goes to that portland physician right now and pays out of pocket. but the supposition is that people are going to be able to pay and they'll go in and daik care of that preventive medicine. the people who can't afford to aren't going to. >> hold on, hold on, whoa, whoa, whoa! >> at the end of the day, that is much more expensive. >> the people who can't afford are covered by medicaid, are they not? >> listen, yes, they are. this idea is not coming from mars or the moon. this is the way the united states was through the '40 dz, 50s, 60s, 70s. back when we had rotary phones. i looked at my mother's hospital bills to have a baby. it was $20 overnight hospital paid out of pocket. >> hold on, rick. you're telling me that somebody who's paying 200 bucks a month for their cell phone can't afford a $10 urinalysiurinalysi? >> i didn't say that at all. >> wait, wait. >> you say people can't afford it. they cannot afford $10 costs on tests? >> first of all, aside from

liking the idea of undercare, a couple of things to get straight here. for starters, you're not talking about a free market system. you're talking about a free market system up to a certain point. when you start talking about catastrophic insurance, you still have the same costs. >> steve, is that true? >> no. because when you focus on things like catastrophic insurance, when you focus on things that cost $20,000, $40,000, $100,000 today, again, the virtue of free markets, whether it's cell phones or anything else, lasik surgery, is when you have free markets you turn thing that's are expensive and rare today into commonplace tomorrow. >> doctor, great experiment. we love your experiment. keep it up. coming up next, bringing home the bacon. a record number of moms are now the breadwinners in their hou households. sounds like great news so why are some women here saying not so fast?

she works hard for the money and she's bringing home more of it. a new survey shows moms are now the breadwinners in 40% of u.s. households. that is a record high. but you say this says more about

our weak economy than it does about equality. how so? >> absolutely. we're all for, here at fox, women working. that's not the issue. the issue is really bad government policies that have really undercut and hurt the american economy. listen, fact, in 1958, eight out of ten men work. now less than two-thirds of men who can work are working. households headed by adults younger than 35, one out of four in poverty, that a's a record. we haven't seen that before. that's why more women need to work and i think that's why more women are the breadwinners. it's unfortunately. >> so, john, for all the wwmen saying this is great news about equality, that's not necessarily so. this could be just bad news about our economy. >> but i think what you have to look for is just how bad the economy would be if women weren't working. adam smith always made the point about the pin factory, the more hands. and fact that women roe participating in the economy means we're much, much better off today. i think it also has positive social implications.

50 years ago a woman was stuck in a marriage if the man treeted her badly because she had no economic way out. the fact that women can support themselves now means they're probably treated better and they obviously don't have to stay in bad situatioos. >> after the show you're going to have to explain the pin factory. i didn't quite get that. morgan, the fact is some feminist web sites like the double x factor says this a great victory, they say the male breadwinner is a dying breed, a study out this week confirms his slow march toward extinction. >> wow. >> you point out some of the bad news about the economy, but generally they see this as a positive. what say you? >> you know, i love the idea there's more women that are breadwinners out there. i think that's great. but i'm going to build upon what e mack sells. this is a larger reflection of the economy. all you have to look at where in the recession were the most jobs lost, male centric secretatorse. that led women to be the breadwinners. now you see the economy

rightsize itself and job growth return, it's those male-centric industry that's are welcoming the most job growth. women are a smaller point of the growth. >> sabrina, is this good or bad news? >> i think helen ready would think it's good news. some portion of that 40% is being the breadwinner because of their achievements. more women are out-earning men in terms of phds, masters degrees. the problem is, if this is happening at the expense of men. we obviously don't live in a vacuum. men and women are too often pitted against each other. we don't want to see women becoming the breadwinners because men can't. >> mike, the fact is there are fewer americans working now who are employable than in the past 40 years. so we do have a desperate unemployment situation in this country. >> david, the economy is not a zero sum game. far more important than the sexual makeup of the labor force

are hinthings like the participation rate, which right now is only 63%. >> that's awful. >> that's a recession level. upward mobility which is extremely difficult. real wages which are stagnant. all the key indicators of the economy in terms of the labor force are poor right now. that's far more important than our 51% male and 52% female whatever. >> right. >> steve, we should just get away with which sex has more in employment. just focus on employment in general. >> that's right. this is not about equality or opportunity. the fact of the matter is, for middle class families today, you need two incomes rather than one because of inflation, because of taxes, not just income taxes but payroll taxes, sales taxes have doubled in recent years. everywhere you go. two incomes have to do the job of one income. that's the problem. that has to be corrected. >> in fact, morgan, most americans, more now than 20 years ago, in fact, which is kind of interesting, object to this trend, the trend of women

becoming more the breadwinners. is that a problem for you? >> no. i think behind -- you know, my husband loves that i'm a breadwinner. so i'm just going to leave it there on that topic. but going back to what steve said, i 100% agree. it's more than just 40% of women are breadwinners. you have to look at there's two different groups of women here. one are the women who are married and who have dual incomes coming into the household making a median salary of $80,000 a year. then you look at the single mothers and that median salary is $23,000 a year. that aefs the big issue. >> morgan is getting at something very important, which is whether or not women actually want this, right? i sat at dinner with steve rhodes, sort of the king of gender differences. we were talking about a study that found out only 23% of married women actually want to be working full time. so i think if we are seeing this number of women who are breadwinners, this is good for women who won't it. but as some have suggested, i suspect a lot of these women actually would like to be

working in some other capacity, maybe part time. >> we're just getting warmed up, but we have to go. well, the irs scandal is heating up, so is a plan by senator ted cruz to save taxpayers from the agency's wrath for good. and he's only sharing it with our own eric bowling. first, supermodel heidi klum paying her kids to eat good foods. but do bribes for broccoli work? we'll debate. you decide, coming up next.

eating right deserves a reward, according to heidi klum. the supermodel reportedly hands out cash to her four little ones to eat healthy. obviously it's not easy to get kids to eat their vegetables. but on the flip side, mike, you say bribing them is not the way to do that. why not? >> david, sooner or later these children are going to figure out their parents are going to pay for their education anyway or contribute. bribes are very short term. kids need to learn to do things because their parents are telling them to. >> sabrina, bribing is bad. >> i think parents are criticized far too much these days. let's remember, all kids, it would be great if they liked their broccoli, but sometimes it takes a little extra butter, an extra quarter to get them to it. i thinn the bottom line is this is about parental involvement, which i give heidi klum two thumbs up for. we have over 32 million american kids getting government-provided

school lunches. i'd rather have kids being paid to eat their broccoli. >> steve, have you ever paid your kids -- you have five children -- to eat well? >> i'm of scottish descent so you know the answer to that. but david, parenting is an art, and people want to do different approaches let them try and see what works and what doesn't work. and in terms of paying, i did consider paying them to clean their rooms. i knew that would be a lost cause. i think that's a bigger cause for parents than eating broccoli. >> rich, you take this one step further. you give rewards for exercise, rite? >> well, yeah. first of all, i think heidi klum, she has the right to exercise her choice, but for 95% of kids the main problem is not the calories they take it. it's the lack of calories that they put out. they're not exercising the way they used to. that's where you're going to create healthier children. >> of course, i remember fat

albert, bill cosby talking about him in the '60s. what about bribing kids to eat well, for or against? >> heidi and i have a good understanding. i don't tell her how to raise her kids, she doesn't tell me how to raise mine. i'm sitting at a table who rekwoil r recoil in horror it takes a village. you want to tell heidi what to do. >> mike, i don't think you're in favor of the nanny state. you don't want the nanny state to come in and force people. >> i just think back to when my dad used to give me 50 cents to take out the garbage. i didn't really do it for the 50 cents xs. i did it because whether he paid me or not, he was going to make me do it anyway. >> steve brings up a good point. in a way, an allowance is kind of a bribe to get your kids to pick up their room, right? >> absolutely. i do it with my three little kids. the bottom line is, we want to talk about creatie ing healthy habits. if she's doing this through

incentive, that's a great opportunity, whether it's with the trash, when wl it's exercise. you want to get them into a habit of eating well and habit of exercising and habit of helping out around the house. these are good things but please don't judge me in how i raise my kids. >> that has to be the last word. we're not judging you, sabrina. thank you very much. coming up, luxury brands are making big money these days. now it's your turn with our informer's luxury stocks you don't want to miss. they're coming right up.

lots of luxury companies. morgan restoration hardware. >> this is a high-end home remodeler. this is a way to play the housing wave. they've been seeing major sales growth and have expansion plans. >> emac? >> great idea. keep an eye on costs. this company has been operating on losses in recent quarters. >> you like cooper tires. why? >> cooper tires is so undervalued. this stock wall street will say is a stale, it makes tires for luxury and other vehicles xs i like this stock. >> mike? >> good company, be careful though. revenue has gotten flat. >> encore capital. >> they collect money from deadbeats. a lot of deadbeats. ed economy is very bad and it's only trading for twice book value. >> sounds great, morgan. >> it does. i think this is great potential long term. keep an eye out because dodd/frank financial regulations are a threat here. >> by the way, does everybody think the market will continue

to go up? >> yes. >> no. >> yes. >> i'll go with the yeses. thanks for watching. the number one business block continues with eric bowling and cashing in. me play. ♪ me play. ♪ irs cruise foorg bruising after picking a fight with conservatives, texas senator ted cruze is here. leading the charge to abolish the irs altogether. you don't have to be a reporter for this administration to size you up. now thanks to obamacare if you weigh too much or smoke, ou'll be slapped with a fine. is had a fine with you? nd teacher is in hot water, is this what is wrong with the american education system. "cashin' in" looking for your rightstarts right now. >> welcome to "cashin' in."