welcome, everybody, i am neil cavuto. positive ratings are at 48% and its really startling in that same poll. it probably go in line with two out of three americans who now have a negative view of the irs. knowing all of that, would you

do that? would you use the privacy laws to justify not turning over information to congressional investigators? it is true. these preventionseaning to prevent the disclosures of taxpayer information. two dozen times, essentially stopping lawmakers inquiries. the same institution that stopped over scores o individuals with reckless abandon now clings to the very privacy laws that clearly abused. amazing. the rs just promoted ahead of that cincinna office where all this nonsense went dn in the first place. these guys wonder why their approv numbers are diving. those are the men that are beginning to die as well. as andome office, part of the market. they say that markets the

markets are down. this thi is out of control. we make of it? >> it goes way beyond that. we are talking about conservative groups and i think that t problem with the irs is much more deeply ingrained in what is happening in the world. you and i have had conversations over the years. i think about a year ago elling you that in my working of the job creators alliance, we are trying to get business people together anyone who is basically a lobbyist could have as many as a thsand employees. those people who are running businesses, th are significant. let's say that i have 500 employees d go to them and say, what do you think about the job alliance. they think a great idea, it's a

wonderful idea. but i have to be very honest. i say, who is going to get you? and you know, the government. i have never in my experience -- and i have ben around for a long time, i have never seen business people afraid of their government before. neil: you were a big prominent democrat. ght onto thisadministration. i think that anybody who speaks out for hr, you go out and speak out aout the cost of3 amacare. if you tell the truh, they have all said the fllowingo m we are not hiring full-time employees. we are hiring employees.

i say why, and they say you know why. okay. now, that is paranoia. they are prey to the irs, they are raid content afraid of ea and it al comes from big government and it all comes fr, you know, the pressures that are being brought on them politically. so i think it is a scar situation. i hope congress stays on it. i hope that they do not back off terry becausthis is a great problem for all of america. neil: i have to say, that it does noteem to be thwarting our forts. as you know, they were doing this rafting of conservatives which was a couple f weeks ago.

my question is this is if you are seeing these poll numbers that show seven out of 10 people think that special prosecutor should be looking into thiss3 matter, orhat two out of three americans just have a negive view of it, none of that appears to be sinking in. if anything, it is eboldening them. >> well, if you feel as though you are immune from outside pressure, by the way, these are all in ways of the government. it is very difficult to fire them. you say that we should fire them. but the truth is that that is not an easy process. neil: i know, you are right. >> so i do not think that -- i don't think this is going to go away. neil: what would change it? obviously a public uproar isone thing. invariably a president of the

administration is always kking and screaminwhen it comes to special prosecutors for anything. but they usuallyive anyone a heads a fever pitch. ju today they were saying no special procutor, we have this on our own, saying that you have thing to worry about. nevertheless this is the attitude that we have and they e not going to bend. the event? >> i think it wl end. if the congress can keep going after them. we have the ability to make those kind of decisions and it didn't happen. the only way to congress is going to find t is by taking us. and i don't know, th first amendment is a very srious amendment. especially when you're on a

publ payroll. that is really serious. it is up to the congress. if they let it die away, it will die away and if it dies away, it wi embolden those people who do this mischief. they will feel that they are moreble to get away with things. neil: i'm sorry to jump on you it like thisbut can i get your perspective is apretty good business right? gets back to sort of sometthing more stylistic here. that is the president's defense, largy,hat he was outf the loop in benghazi and what is going on. he's out of the loop by the irs.

so can you really be in the loop, or does it say something about the syle breeds this type of activity and suld make us worry? >> let me give you my opinion. and this is only my personal opinion. when he new that they were going to get obam and ben bradlee, where was he? i mean, this is a very serious matter a we have four people killed. it is a very serious atter. it is an international incident and how does he say he doesn't know what happened? if that is the case, then this doesn't speak well for the president of united states. i don't know of aner president, and i can go back to clinton, i can go back to bush. you know,you want to go back to

whoever you want to go back here. they wou not be wearing something like that happening. not understanding until five days later what happened this is on foreign soil, these are american citizens that got kied. the only reason that the americaneople are not up because outside of foand "the walltreet journal", no one really knows about it. neil: he knew at the very least. so much we don't know.

>> what about the secretary of state? do you think thatshe would be totally aware of a? what doeit matter? it is all over? to me it smells pretty ba even if you are a simpleton, i am a warner von braun. newsflash, i am not. always good to see you come and. >> take care of yourself. neil: burnie markets. one of t nicest guys in corporatamerica. meanwhile, relax, everybody. here he comes to save the day. the president said to do some presre on studentt loan chuck hagel. is tough, they are rough. meet the former wrestlers who

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>> if congress doesn't act by july 1, federal loan rates are set to double. that means that the average student will wrap up an additional $1000 in debt. it is like a thousand dollar tax hike. neil: that alarm you heard in the backgrnd is that it's happening. the president wants to give kids a break to prevnt hose things. i wanted to step back and fathom what is going on here. we are talking about student lo rates from jumping to6.8%. that is historically low by anne's standard. of course by comparison to the unreal low of 3.4% that students are enjoying now, it is really a big jimmy carter-ish. should the government be

artificially keeping student loan rates idiculously low to hide the reality that this is unreal. oelrich liz macdonald. i understand that students want a part of it. but i just think it is crazy. >> yes, we do want to help our students. we are examining thisbecause it is so scary and risky to our economy that could destabilize our economy. when you have student loan deb, you have subprime borrowers lking away frotheir loans. you ha to ave, what have we

done to her students do not have a good market for these student loan. >> have we aided and abetted basically the college university system that basically is operating like a hotel epire. that is to have amenities, to have great cafeterias, expensive gin. the students are paying tuition for this and they really can't afford it. neil: i like that. you know, one could argue, it would always be a shock to student seeing rates doubled. but at what point do w get back to natural market rates? obviously those rates were much higher. especially when i was in school. the student discount rates -- they were based on a fre-market type of florida -- system. by the way, i would apply the same critics consider the fed

realistically, you know, havin missed you at the realistic level that is not realistic. >> the problem is the whole system. we have this national id system where the government controls the rate. my problem is that the government make 336 cents on every dollar it runs out. so they have this interest rate that they set and they are the only benefactors from it. it is not like thinterest rate controlled in this way. that is the problem. the government is setting students up to fail by telling them they should go to college. taking out 50 grand in debt, it doesn't matter what a major in. we actually need to get students to think about what they they're going to major in, how it ill procure them to succeed. making them consider how much and once what they are taking ou that is something that the system -- there is no restriction, there no screening

as to how ma loans you can take out and how much you can take out the. neil: my bigger issue with this is the easier yo make it to provide funding for kids who might sorely need that funding -- i don't dismiss that. the more you make it easier for the institutions themselves to keep raising the prices because they say well, they are getting more loan money or cheaper loan money, we are goi to keep jacking up thituition and room and board fees and all the rest. >> this is one ofhe instances were completely agree with your thesis the ones we have a thunderbolt? [laughter] >> i know how much that disappoints you. having this day that, i woul like to disagree a little bit. i agree with the president that we have set up this horrible system and we should not double the rates with the stroke of the pen. thats not goo policy. furthermore, the presidt should be using his bly pulpit

to address the kinds of issu that liz macdonald was talking about. i think that she is right. the costs have gone out of control. they are not always about education. this is smething of where we could use leadership on. we are not going to get it from the academic institutions. he don't care. they are making their money. so i think that we only get to focus at times. the governmet should help students with student loans. again, i agree with you. not ridiculously artificially low rates bebecause that is not sustainable. neil: the whole system is weaned off the government. >>es, the federal government took over in 2010. direct lenders by thu.s. department of education. when you have the u.s. academi system, when it is built on the nonprofit system, you have to say to yourself, they have a pretty sweet over there. adam is right.

900 grand for the dean of the harvard law school. holy cow. so you have to say to yourself, if they -- there are a lot of fatcat academics. i would say reduetheir tax exempt status to make them more marketable. >> i wasoing to say the same thing. we should have a policy conversation about that. i'm might solve me of the problems. exactly, that is the probl. the lenders use to be attack on gher education. they wouldn't give you onef you're going to go to a battle that would allow you to get a job and pay it off your that is a problem that we are having. what higher education is doing is that sense that naturalization happened, college tuition has run up 25%. the average average graduating

student loan debt has gone up 20%. colleges are just running rampant. neil: we are as close as we have ever been on any issue together. so it is a moment. when we come back, chuck hagel. we went out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest perso you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though wee living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪ otherworldly things. but there arsome things i've never seen before. this ge jet engine can understand 5,000 data samples per second.

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of defense kicking up some dust. chinese officials with cybersecurity this weekend. jo label says get ready for the attacks to continue their attack.

he can't pin these knuckleheads. but alas, he is here to offer his destined are. how do we get back on offense? >> i think a lot of people don't understand it. protect all of the routes around the world to go through china. it's a fine line. neil: how do you draw a th fine line of sabotage. we have toell them t knock this stuff up. neil: you say not enough, but

what you do? there have to be consequences for actions. if my father told me sothing as a kid, you know, there is no of that. what we do? >> we don't want to get into a trade war with them. what happens is we went through this with airbuses as the well. neil: bill clinton had the same approach. it goes back to jimmy carter, rona ragan, you better stop this routine, china has gotten richer and richer and more powerful

>> hit them where they are the most formidable. take that away from them. tell them that they are not going toallow this that is what has to be done with sanctions. if you have to do it to protect our company and our interests, by all mans, put that on the table that sanctions are an option they need us more than we needhem. we can goafter them if we choose to. neil: all right, we shall see. the other option is for themto get in the ring and put this thing to rest. it is alwaysood seeing you. thank you very much. >> it is great to see you. neil: no special prosecutor. ssing and turning have given way to sleeping. where sleepless nights yield to restful sleep,

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neilall right, ght wing nut jobs going after eric holder. the respected professor and legal scholar. when george washington university professor jonathan turley writes that it's time to fire eric holder, dare i say it cross examination on the right and the left.

to the good professor mty thinks the attorney general has overs tha end not so much derection of duty, but losing credibility on duty. explain why you have to go. >> both have a lack of judgment. this is not his first scandal. several have you'd eric holder is a bit of a menace when it comes to basic rights. he was a guy who defended the policy of president obama. the meia overlooks things for the protection of liberty but you did hear what the admistration did here. what they dd was have a

comprehensive attack on the free press. their defense raises even greater concerns about the commitment of first amendment values. they have argued that as long as they don'trosecute someone like james rosen, it is really noa right repressed. which is really bizarre. we have a fourth amendment that protects against unlawfuu searches. it doesn't mean that they haven't invaded their privacy or violated the fourth amendment. wh is most disturbing here is for ople to once again be part of this administration. eric holder should go. i do not know what is worse. the fact that he knew nothing about this or if he or something. either way, he is damaged goods. heoesn't service administration as well as he could.

neil: we are l for protecting americans and their rights a their lives. if th somehow geixed up in the sauce, understand what were doing. >> every official who has been accused of wngdoinsays tt they have the best motives. no one disagrees that the leaking of classified information is a crime. the prior administration ha focused their efforts on finding the leaker is. @%is administration has had a scorched-earth policy with regardo features and whistleblowers, this president has prosecuted twice for number people under the espiona act and all prior presidents put gether. but to pursue people like james

rosen is really beyond that. it is not a closed question. that is where you don't go. you do not threaten journalists. you do not see information on these sources. >> i'm just wondering about the legal inflection point. the thing is it is grossly out of place for libertarians in regards to free pess. the justice department should not be in charge of this investigation. i'm a big supporter of independt counsels for that

reason. steve we are going to have a secret off the record meeting on ths. >> what is als weird is that first of all, he came in and there was in this roll up yur sleeves meeting. he said what he was planning to do. one person asked him questions. in this case, he has been accused of this and he personallyigned off on wha was it directors of on the free press. that is the reason that i think the this meeting was a little bit more. to give cover for themselves and the preident.

at some point wehad to put away our political division and sta with the constitution. including things that are vitally important. neilwe have the liberals who have often ionized air. you have a call. neil: sometimes when they are standing in line for hours. you etter get something looking at that line. better get a fewf them. ♪

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neil: use a doughnut. just carpet down. what t heck. in the big apple, this eatery that features be filled donuts has folks coming out of the woodwork. again, at $5 a pop. the very thing that wendy's is rolling out is a pretzel cheeseburger. fast food making fa work of the fast food police. we have gary smith. very thin folks. all right. they always forget to pieces and they have some work to do. >> exactly. the fast food folks or the

critics. >> this is what i love about the story here. capilism at its finest. they are saying forget about conventional wisdom, forget we are going to give people what they really want, andhonestly hope to make money. i applaud them for it r neil: keith, what you make of this? >> i am in the wrong business. five-dollar donuts, $7 for coffee. the one part of thir goal i to police the over-the-top stuff. >> with jerry's point, this is

the quintessential exampleof the reed market. i think it is a great idea. >> windows aides, still great. it hasbeen way overstated and y over done. it was more than 100 million unit sold. you agree that, keith? >> io not know. i go back and forth. i just about threw mine out t window this morning because i couldn't find a portion of it. but you know, if it is woking and it's selling, great. re power to them. >> i guess that i really caught on fire.

>> i think that it is a great number. 100 million of anything is fantastic area i think the bigger issue is how the media, the left eaning media is protecting us. if you are in microsoft, ibm, gone fo good exxon bil, you have no good news. that is what i think the bigger story is. >> according to a new suvey, being marriedave more mony. gary, were you surprised by that? >> im not surprised. but i guess in looki back over

my marriage 25 years strong, i guess, i guess maybe you do have to work a little b harder to maintain a successful marriage and make a lot of money. so i guess it was surprising, but in looking at a little bit deeper, maybe not so shoking. neil: when i ran into this survey was as if it was a choice, either marriage or moey . i think that we understate the importance of what the right paner can bring. d the longevity and the access that comes with that. >> i would agree and i think there's something else in the study that caughh my attntion. when you are older, it didn't matter. so we don't know and we don't care.

but either w, i think ha marriage is good and i was very happy to see that. >> i think money still matters. you know,so i'm thinking about this. >> of se it does. we have to support the marriage, children, whatever comes with that. having a successful partner, i think is a pmium that societies need agency returned remark all right, guys, thank yoboth so much. >> a state worker caught napping on the jobless job was bad. it gets worse. what do until you hear about another onsuing the government prove he was fudging his prove he was fudging his hours. [ male announcer ] summer is here.

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neil: let me be brief, this is not. i have two very great lawyers trying to ke sense of this. you know, she says that he might have a case hre. they have argued that in 2009 the police eed to go to a judge and have probable cause before they can play this kind of tracking device on someone's property. in this case we are talking about this.

neil: would he be suing for damages? would he make of that? >> the other guesstimate guest made a great point. this isn't a criminal case. let's just stop by for a second and understood this guys doing. he is basically stealing money. neil: so paying for his job, you know, tha is what we are talking about. >> yes, that is not the only thing. this isn't a criminal case. you know, it public employers

can search their employees. there is a limited one exception. all they need is reasonable suspicion. >> most of these states don't have the work requirements like new york does. the law says that the search without a warrant needs to be reasonable and unreasonable in scope area the nw york civil liberties have taked bout is. there is nothing reasonable about government putting a tracking device on someone. we are not talking about tis. and then for 30 days, even a welong vacation out-of-state.

neilwe discovered this in the course of doing this. >> i accepthat other guest made a distinction there. there is no precedent for what she going. and in the, i just don't agree. you kno, i get that but he s using his private car, saying that i am going to tell you that they had other

ways to prove that he still this money. >> it was eight we re onto taxpayers. >> i think it is more dangerous to society and taxpayers. no judge would say hat there is probable cause. >> that meas that they fire them. they don have this down. they don't track peole 24 hours a day. neil: okay, he stole the donuts from the 5-dollar store. okay, it is one thing when an

angry congreman sayshe president is hiding somethig. but when a former vice president of the united states says that, of the united states says that, game changer

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neil: the former vice president just pointed his finger at this president. when dan quayle fixesthe white house and something really doesn't add up, just listen. >> ignorance will be his defense. that is the way it is, and who can blame it. out of the loop on all of us. neil: ewart is out of he loop on things. >> you're not out of the loop. you knoo what is going on.

let's talk to liz claman. >> former vice president said it was really intesting. because now we have the irs commissioner, former irs commissioner. he's visiting the white house, i am not saying that he didn't make all of those 157 visits. but the point being thht it was right at the time when obamacare was being hotly opposed by the tea party. the house was set to turnver to republican leadership in 2010. if the president here is saying that i have nothing to do with the targeting of t-exempt groups, they turn over the memos and the meeting notes. just release them with the former irs commissioner. if hdoesn't, the house committee on investigations and the suommittee should bpoena them. >> one of the things that was

interesting is that he still fe that godl out of all the scandals that we had, whether it was the irs going afte conservatives, that wa the scandal that had the most it would flip conventional wisdom. i uderstand that's involved in benghazi and we cannot make light of it. that is somethi that catches up with yu. so this president is out to lunch. ishat any better? -- you know, i just -- i don'tly think that is not. i think it's interesting also that he wouldey in on benghazi. that is the weakest case. d i think that that is probably not very gnerous to the president.

i'm sure that the president was aware of it, then the conversation was going on. but pick on the situation -- it as not exactly on top of the details. it is a dierent subject something that the situation wi the irs where someone was doing sothing wrong. these are two very different situatns. neil so the next day you are off to a political event. that alone, tha states cluelessness or indifferen. t i will put all the together here. and an administration whose prime defense these days is out of the loop, we delivered this out of the loop. one crisis, two practices, three or four or five practices. now yore smoking something.

>> well, that is what it seems like. it seems that we're supposedo believe that this only comes en he reads the teleprompter. i think the president obama had to have nown. this i supposed to be the most transparent administration ever and why doesn't show us where he was at night. what the communications were one benghazi happen. and with the irs, release the memo and let us s what is going on what was happening. >> it is not just between the president and the irs commissioner. it is also valerie jarrett who was found in these controversies. the president is not a king, he is not royalty. he answers to the american people and he was working for the american people. i say let the american people

decide. >> so in that vein, i do not think that it is funny or particularly generous. that is actually onef your best jokes. and it is funny. we do t have the right to know what the president had for lunch or at what time. >> we will see. we are very insistent and very honorable. liz, what do you think?

>> i think it tsorse. i think that there wl be -- i'm not sure but i think it gs more intense. neil: i want to thank you, guys. i >> tom: with all the scandals rocking washington, there is plenty of advice going on. how should the president react. can congress really get answers and solutions. sage advice is needed. so let's ask a man who served many presidents and spent a long time in our nation's capital. we're talkingith donald rumsfeld right here and right now. >> tom: thanks for joining us. here at the top of the stack, the government, his government service started as a nav aviator then as a congressman. he ran the oice of economic opportunity the ambassador of nato. white house chief o