weekday 3:00 to 6:00 p.m. pastern time. we'll have a another great show for you next weeks, in the meantime, i do hope to hear you on the radio. good evening, everybody. thanks for being wit us. attorney general eric holder tonighis trying to hold on to his job, despite calls from members of both political parties for the president to get rid of him. holder's role in politicizing the justice department, authorizing spying on mmmbers of the national media, his role in the fast and furiousgun running scandal, all leading to calls for his resignation, and now top republicans on the house judiciary committee have begun an investigation into whether holder outright led to their committee two weeks ago, when holder made this statement. >> with regard to the potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material, that is

not something that i have ever be involved in, heard of or would think would be a wise policy. in fact, my view's quite the opposite. >> it was just over a week later on may 24th that the department of justice revealed that an affidavit giving the department of justice access to fox chief washington correspondent james ron's e-mai was quote, approved at the highest levels, including discussions with the attorney gener himself. and to gain access to those records, the fbi and justice attorneys had to sign an affidavit that effectively accused rosen of espionage by labeling him a co-conspirator. house judiciary committee chairman bob goodlott said a pointed lettero holder demanding answers to a number of questions regarding the attorney general's role in the rosen scandal and his department ying on asmany as 100 reporters and editors at the associated press. his letter read quote, it is

imperative that the committee, the congrs and the american people be provided a full and accurate account of your involvemen the white house press secretary, jay carney today, who has been caught in a number of misstatements and contradictions of his own, if not outright lies, today claimed tt holder's testimony was truthful and th president obama still has the utmost confidence in his attorney general. not all liberals agree with the president. prominent left wing scholar and george washington university law professor jonathan turley wrote a scathing op-ed in day's "usa today" . he called holder the president's quote, sin eater, while calling for his firing. this flows calls in the left-leaning hufngton post for holdlder to go as well. the department of justice reacted by reaching out to washington, d.c. buru chiefs of major print and broadcast organizations to set up a meeting with the attorney general to talk about changes to the doj's guidelines for news

organizatis' subpoenas. a source close to the attorney general telling fox news that the a.g. regrets the breadthf the rosen and aociated press inquiries. an officia department of justice statement read quote, the a.g. realizes that things might have gotten a little out of balance, and he wants to make changes to be sure the rules fully account for the balance between the first amendment and law enforcement. not exactly a bouquet of roses extended by the attorney geral. for more on the white house scandals and whether we can expect accountabity from this administration, radio talk show host monica crowley, fox news digital politics editor, chris steinwald. anks for being here. moca, let me begin wi you. is reaching ut to the press by the attorney genal, if therwere ever a clearer act of desperation, what could it be? >> well, it's hard to find one, right? so far he's offer his quote remorse and now he's offering

face time to reporters to try to put out his side of the story. it's a little late for that. this attorney general is really to his eyeballs in a ole range of scandals. his answers have not been forthcoming. there's no truth telling going on so what he hopes to accolish by meeting with these -pbureau chiefs is something le open. >> as we reported,chris, this -- the attorney general straight out said that he was not involved in anything that woulde a potential prosecution. this could be a more outright misrepresentation of the reality by any imagination, could there? >> well, unfortunately for the attorney general, this is one of those situations where the only defense ends up being one of incompetence or neglect, where you are able to say well, i didn't readt or i didn't know, i signe it but i asn't are. those are the kinds of statements that you have to make this case to avoid aerjury charge and congressman goodtt

and his committee are going t t be very good at holding him to account on this because the goal more than anything else, yeah, they're pushing on the perjury but they want to know how many journalists over what period of time and how many phone lines, how many e-mail accounts. that's what they want to get to. >> to chris' poinn, monica,he reality is we have no idea how many journalists the justice department has spied upon or records we seized to follow and trace their traffic, whether it be in communication or whether it be their physical location in washington, d.c. or for thatatte any part of the country. >> right. > does heactually survive this? it's a huge outstanding question because we have two tracks here. first of course we have the james ron andfox news case whicis the case in question here. buprior to that, we've had the exposure of the associated press and the justice department goi afr 20 phone lines therehat cover out 100 reporters and editors of the a.p. so the question is how many journalists, that question has not been answered, what were you really hoping to gain by this.

the surface ory is well, the were going after leakers and they wanted to prosecute national security leakers, but there's an underlying idealogical reasonhy they were going after the press which is an attempt to really intimidate and silence not only those reporters but potential whistleblowers on ories like benghazi and the a.p. and fox news. >> chris, does the attorney general surve? >> no, but the question iwhen. and that's the big one. attorney general is not a position in which somebody generally stays a very long time. mr. holder's tenure by comparison is long for an attorney general. he surprised many in staying on into the second term and t like hillary clinton excusing himself after re-election. so here he is. i bet obama wisishes that hold would have retired already soe could have taken much of this with him,ut instead, he stayed, so he can't leave now or it looks like a crisis, and who in the heck would the senate confirm under these circumstances, so mr. holder has to drag his feet, go slow, wait

for this to die down, and the find a more opportune moment to slip out. >> there is a lot of pressure building on the attorney geral. you see not jt republicans holding his feeto the fire, doing these investigations, but now you see left wing journalists, you see lefting people like jonathan turley, who you reported on earlier, the huffington post also calling for his resigtion, but there's only one person whose opinion counts when it comes to eric holder and that's the president ofhe united states. the second the president deems him a political liability, lou, hehe is gone. president obama has shown no mercy when it come to people who come inconvenient to him. >> i pernally can't think of a person who has become a liability to the extent of eric holder. there are all sorts of arties about him being the president's altarego. i don't know if any of that amounts to anything but i do know this. the president himself has a credibility crisis. the predent himself has a

crisisf confidence on the part of certainly congress, andwe have a president who is effectively willing to run off to chicago as he is tonight, and raise money as a wa to, well, to distract himself. this is not a happy time. >> democrats are going to need all that money the predent raes tonight and every penny more because 2014 isoing to be a rough run and eric holder's not going to make it easier. but as to his being the alter ego and all of that stuff, it's important for not how it makes barack obama feel but for what the president's base thinks the president is less concerned about what republicans say. he's more concerned about what his activist base says, the folks who got him re-elected. they like erichoer. if the president is seen cashiering him under republican pressure, there will be an uproar the president doesn't wa to have to handle. >> an uproar. it would be anuproar that would be somewhat inconsistent with

the president's approvalings which in the most recent gallup poll a at 50%. monica, your thoughts? >> well, it usually takes a long time for peopleto pay actual attention to scandals and enough to start assigng blame. usually the american public is very reticent about assigning blame to apresident. it took months for the watergate scandal to gain traction, months for thelinton scandals to gain traction. so we're still in the early days of this. the president is in a unique position as the firstlack president. he's very insuled by this press and contins to be, lou, so it may be awhile before this starts flicking up ono him but it wi trust me. >> chris, you get the last word here. >> i think there's a lot of truth in thatbut i would say this, that the presidenthas a strategy here. it's to go slow, drag his feete get in the bunker, stay in the bunker, ride this out. whether that works for his fellow democrats who have to run for -election, i don't know. >> thank you. thank you, chris. monica, ank you. hackers steing u.s.

military secrets as defense hawks try to push the united states into conflict in syria. national seri experts k.t. mcfarland and general jack keen assess america's next move.

turning to the syri conflict, an arms race may be brewing as the united states and russia try to bring the assad gime and opposion leaders togeer for peace talks. joining us now, former pentagon offici, fox national security analyst, k.t. mcfarland, general jack keene, retired four star army general, former army chief of staff. he's also a fox news military analyst. and it is great to have you both with us tonight. k.t., let me start first, e

spectacle, if you will, of the senior senatrom arizona going to syria to talk about arming the rebels. your reaction. >> we do nobelong in the middle of somebody else's civil war. it is great tragedy but before you talk about arming anyby, what's the objective, how are you going to achieve that objective. this is not going to be something that's easy or quick, and ihink the story you had when you opened this broadcast, chinese hackers, that's where we ought to be paying attention to. syria'simportant but the chinese stealg trillions of dollars of american intellectual capital and defense capabilities is to me a far more serious problem. >> then i'm confirmed in our lead. >> you indeed aae. >> thank you so much. general, your thoughts on syria as well. >> i completely disagr. if we never want to be involved in anybody's civil war, we would never ever back any insurgencies or try to counterinsurgencies and we'v done both of those. i think largely for pretty good reasons. the fact of the matter is no less thahan secretary ostate clinton and director of theia

petraeus both believe that it's possible to arm the rebels and still achieve some outcome. i don't believe could be cisive now, because time is on the side of asd, and he clearly is on the move. and frankly, i believe this administration and others are paralyzed by the fear of adverse consequence. erefore, the situation's hopeless and there's nothing we can do about it. quite frankly, we cano something about it and i also would take down assad's airfields an take down lots of his missile systems. i wouldn't establish the no-fly zone yet. i don't think you need to do that. but what the tipping point here militarily which would turn the tide if we want assad to go would be stop his air power from flying. once that happens, the momentum will shift rather quickl doesn't mean we know whathe political outcome is going to be. we don't. that's reality of it. we d know what wget if assad stays in power.

>> the syrian rebels, setting a 24 hour deadline for hbollah to withdraw from its support of assad, is there a possibility that that deadline would be met? >> no. >> what is the u.s. interest? >> no. look, syria is now li the bar scene in a "star wars" movie. every bad guy in the universe is there. there are over 1,000 rebel groups, e predominant ones, the most powerful ones are tied to al qaeda, they are al qaed affiliates. any threat that abody's making right now is not going to happen. i think these guys are in it to fight to the finish. if i could just say, related to genel keene, i respect greatly what you have to say but when you say u don't know what the political outcome is, haven't we just seen in syria, you knock off a dictator and what do you have in his place, chaos. you see it in egypt, pull the rug out from another dictator and what happens, economic and political chaos. i'm not sure that this is a situation where we want to go in yet again and roll the dice and hope that well, maybe it will be better than what we have.

assad is a murderous thug. he will rot inhell. but the thought that we're going to now get involved in another war in the middle east where we don't know what the political outcome is, i think that's short-sighted. >> i'm going to turn if i may very quickly to the issue you raise. i want to understand why now. we have known that the chinese are carrying on with their front companies and cyberattacks assaults on u.s. intellectual capital, whether it is under the control of our military or whether it'snder the control of the pvate sector. for literally two decades. why now, why is this information leaked released, how did suddenly the "washington post" t its hands on this and to what end, what purpose of this administration? >> i think it's reaching critical mass. it's now to the int where every one of our major weapons systems has been hacked. in the case of the f-35 fighter, they found out, they hacked into it, got the information. phey put one out on the assembly line and on the could. so i think you're seeing a lot

more of it againecause it's reaching critical mass. >> general, you get the last word here. yourhoughts on that issue? >> well, i think we g to take the gloves o here with china. the private security company that exposed this a number of weeks ago could have exposed 20 differt attacks. they actually had the pictures of the people who were doing it. that's how much we know. that's a pivate security company. listen, we know what the chinese are doing. we stealheir intelligence, thal our technology and intelligence. we have got to expose them for what they're doing an we're unwilling to do that, quite frankl and until this administraon is willing to d that, they're going to keep on coming. the fact of the matter is they do not want public exposure they believe they have deniabity because of cyber, you don't know who the hackers are. put it out publicly who the hackers are. at least tell the chinese, look, we're going to totally expose you unless you change your behavior and here's what we can give to the world public at large if you don't curb your behavior.

i think then we finally start to make some progress with these guys. >> general, thank you very muc k.t., thank you very much. it's been called a threat to the entire world. a deadly super bug th has no known origin, no kwn cure, and kills at an alarming rate. dr. mark siegel with the chilling detls abouthe novel coronavirus. (announcer) at scottrade, our clients trade and invest exactly how they want. with scottrade's online banking, i get one view of my bank and brokeragage counts with one login... to easily move my money when i need to. plus, when i call my local scottrade office, i can talk to someonwho knows how i ade.

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deadly new threat that has world health officials on high alert. the world health organization today confirmed five more cases of middle east respiratory syndrome. a corona virus, according t the worlhealth organization, the sars-like virus is a quote threat to the entire world. 27 of the 49 conrmed cases have resulted in death joining us now to give us perspective and understanding on this deadly virus, fox news

medical contributor, dr. mark siegel. and doctor, i have to say, i have never heard of a virus that has better than a 50% death rate. this is stunning stuff. what is happening here? >> well, let me walk you through this. >> tt's wh you're here. >> it's certainly something we need to take seriously, any time a new virus emerges and we don't know what the scope of it's going tobe. we don't knownd you're right, the initia virus looks like it s a hgh death rate among the cases. but here's the problem. first of all, that dr. margaret chan is t very shy when she says threat to the entire world. she said this before. >> dr. margaret chan, director of the world health organization. >> she said it with bird flu, could kill up to 90 million, she said. she said it with swine flu. she says it every time there's an emerging vir. >>she's an alarmist. >> she did it with sars. now, sars, here's something very

teresting. sars in 2003 infected 7,000 people and killed about 700. when it first emerged, sars, it was about a 50% death rate and everyone panicked, it's going to ki the entire world. th city of toronto was cordone off literally and asia spent $30 biion keeping people from traveling and seestering people and you know what? that's the real story about sars. it's the fear, it's the panic. so now i see ontv everybody saying this could benother sars, and i'm thinking well, but sars wasn't as bad as people said. why am i talking about sars. it's the same kind of virus, a corona virus. guess what else is a corona virus? the common cold. the common cold which doesn't kill anybody. >> when i look at the symptoms of this virus, talking about a cold or flu-like symptoms, cougng, i think mygod, how many illnesses have those as symptoms. it's going to be awfully hard to identify. i think to myself wait a mute,

wait a mine, t world health organization is telling us that there are 49 cases. this is pretty good, becae we're a planet of over seven billion people and they've come wn with 49 folks, they know how many of them have die this doesn't sound right to me. what's going n? >> exactly right, what you just said. what's going on is it's too early to say anything like what she's saying because we don't ev know at something called the attack rate is. in other words, for every person that get one of these things, how many other people get it, and until we see it actually spreading llke that, wecan't assu it will. most of these new viruses don't stay ass deadly ashey spread, they peter out. either they don't affect a lot of people -- >> that's some solace -- >> no, it should be. because again, every year, there's one of these and the real virus ere is fear. i'm not saying, i'm not dismissing this virus. it needs to be well studied but you know what, we have the scientists to study thes things right now but we need a mixe message here.

we need a messa of information, we're looking into it, we're studying it, we're figuring out the dna, we're even publishing the dna on the web but it is not clear that thisis ing to end up being a worldwide scoue. the chances are way against it becoming major problem. >> when i think o the idea of panic, whether it be globally or otherwise, what inhe world can one do if oneedid panic, the fact of the matter we're dealing with science here. science is now identifying, medical science is identifying this vir and what i am curious abt is now the reporting that's suggesting at this is at an abnormally high rate mutating to the point that it is absolutely resistant to antivirals. kind of put that in context for us, if you would. >> okaa. first of all, everyone loves the word mutating because it's a fear word, another fear word. all viruses are mutating all the time. >> we can call it change. >> no, i'm notaying - you

described that accurately, again, but the probl is most of them mutate or change in ways that make them less harmful, not more harmful so i don't assume that because all of these viruses are changing all the time they're going to become more harmful. in terms of treatments, antivirals don't work agnst these corona viruses. if they did, we would have a cure for the common cold which is a corona virus. we don't have vaccines or treatments against them but most of t time, they don't spread like wildfire and become a that. i think it'sworth watching this virus and worth studying it. i don't see a vaccine coming against it because we don't have a vaccine against the common cold. >> that's a wonderful point. all of your points are wonrful and terrific, as always. dr. mark siegel, we know wha your motivation is a that's the truth and reality and sharing as best you can your owledge of medical science. wouldn't it be nice to be that smart? i would like to be that smart. >> you're pretty mart, u. >> dr. mark siegel, thanks for being here.

>> attorney general ericholder accused of lying under oath. who should investigate america's top law man?

the house judiciary commite investigating whether attorney general eric holder lied under oath earlier this month. at issue, holder's claim about whether he knew about prosecuting reporters under the espionage act. >> with regard to the potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material, that is not something that i have ever been involved in, heard of, or would ink would be a wise policy. >> well, we now know it was the attorney general who personally approved the search warrant concerning fox news' james rosen. joining us now, former prosecutor leis weil, arthur

idella, both fox news legal analysts. it looks to me like the attorney general lied. >> i think that's plain and simple, he absolutely did. he said he didn't have any knowledge of it but you see the search warrant was signed off. he was given wrong information, that's the onlreason he signed off on that warrant for rosen's mail addresses and he siged off on it, went to the very highest level. now he's saying he didn know about it? arthur, good luck defending that one. >> excuse me. >> i'm just saying. corner. about coming out of your >> isn't this your former agency? aren't you a former united states attorney? ah-ha! >> i never signed off on that. >> that looks like a straight-out open and shut case. >> i've had clients who get threatened to go to jail for a lot ss than that. a lot less than that. martha stewart went to jail for basically the samexact thing and she's a laypern. he is not only an attorney. he's the attorney general.

heis supposed to be prepared. there's no excuses for him to have a pse in judgment. >> this guy said i don't know in one form or another 57 mes. >> right. >> good lord. >> either you signed off on it or you did not. he signe off on it. >> your former agency is supposed to prevent people from lying, went front of the most prestigioupanel and lied. >> thank you. you agree with me then. >> i agree that your former employer messed up and should be punished, the same way you always want my clients to be punished. >> there is agreement, then. >> yes. there is agreement. >> let's proceed to -- we got a lot on thedocket here. >> lou, you know what's interesting. >> i know about dockets. >> there's the fox issue that has pushed the whole associated press subpoena like under the table. meanwhile, that's a whole other issue in and of itself. >> the associated press happened a week before we hear about

rosen. that was alreadyhere. this is now the second time, maybe the third because of a cbs reporter as well. >> we don't know how much experience that this attorney general hain,e, going after the press because this -- these court documents wereealed for a year and a half longer than they were supposed to be. >> right. >> the jge, by the way, apologiz for that. >> yes. at's why i said the judge got bad information, got false information. you're calling a correspondent a criminal. i mean -- >> to be fair to the judge, what he had in front of him was this affidavit that holder -- >> who signed th affidavit? o signed that fidavit? the u.s. attorney? >> no, fbi agt. >> and the fbi agent. both, correct? >> right. correct. >> the attorney brings it to the judge. there were my u.s. attorneys now former saying this should have never happened, it never would have gotten through the layers before it even got to the u.s. attorney. >> you know why, you had a bunch

of true believers in the room, okay? >> i don't know what t lieving is. that's the iue. >> they didn't believe in the constitution of the united states. they sure as hell didn't believe in that, did they? >> well, what -- >> maybe i should call them true disbelievers. what do you think? >> to think that they didn't realize as they sat in their cloistered room and brought this to the judge, i'm not blaming the judge completely because he got d information, that they wouldn't g caught. talk about martha stewart. you n't think ou're going to get caughh for something like that? are you kidding me? you're talking abou fox news. >> let's back off here just a bit, too. when i said true believers, i mean true believers in a political sense. the reason i think we got a pretty good case for that is the attorney general had to shop this deal around looking for that judge. so i don't thi tre's much wiggle room even for these folks who ke a livingut of wiggling >> the term that's used in the law is chilling effect. >>hilling effect.

>> you're not supposed to create a chilling effect for the media do their job. james rosen to pickp the phone and call who he needs to call to do his job. >> it's not just fox news. it's a.p., cbs, everybody, everything. to tell a reporter if you do your job, we're going to come after you and call you a co-conspirator. >> the reason cbs is cause of sheryl atkins. we've got to take them at their word, the justice department said they didn't do . no, i don't think they have to take them at their word in anything. that's a huge problem for this country. this administration responsible for, i mean, such a disgusting lacof credibility. accountability. there needs to be integrity. by the way, do you think i'll t an invitation -- >> i don't think yoll be hanging out there any time soon.

>> thank you very much. you are both great. up next, t brand new bk "american phoenix." john quincy adams' mission to russia changing this nation's destiny. hampton cook is [ male announcer ] summer is here. and so too is the summer event. now get an incdible offer on the powerful, efficient c250 sport sedan with an agility corol sport-tuned suspension. but hurry before this opportunity... disappears. the mercedes-benz summer event ends soon. ♪ ♪ but i feel skinnier, you know? aaah! jessica! whoa!

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a brand new book tells the tale of louisa and john quincy ads' mission to russia that makes the war of 1812 the centerpiece and relevant to today's global dynamics, of course. joining us now is presidential historian, author of the compelling new book "american phoenix" jane hampton cook. great to have you with us. we recommendhe book hhly and mmend it to you. it's doing great. let me ask you this. what brought your cus to this mission and the war of 1812? i have to be honest with you, i

love the stories of the 1812, andrew jackson and the battle of new orleans. what brought you to it? >> well, i was really fascinated with the story of louisa adams, she was such a strong womanback during the jane austen era. i became intrigued with john quincy adams because he was down on his luck. he lost the job of his drms and had to go to russia of all places, yet he uses that opportunity, makes the most of it, and it really resurrects his political service career and it puts him on track to be presiden i was drawn to their stories. >> as a presidential historian, you're talking about one of the great presidents. you're talking about one of the pivotal moments in american history. when you look at what is happening right now in washington, d.c. with this president, this congress, this senate, give us your comparison, your thoughts,our emotions on

the contrast. >> well, what strikes me about today is how heavy laden that the bureauccy is. everybody is hiding behind the person above them or bow them. there's a bureaucracy. when john quincy adams was a diplomat to russia, he communicated dectly with the president of the uned states through letters, and directly through letters to the secretary of state. we've lo a lot of that. i think that's the difference. communication was ry slow, it would take weeks for letters to go by ip, but it's instant today, yet theeaucracy really does seem to weigh down d you know, just covell of what we're seeing now. that's what they're trying to do is break thrgh thatt buaucratic stronghold. >> it is a stronghold, it is also a stronghold, if you will, a fortresnow which, well, is encircled wi a stone wall whether it be the obama irs scandal, whether it be the

justice department fast and furious scandal, theassociated press, the james rosen and fox news andal, whether it be benghazi. i mean, the list goes on and on, and all of it is coming back to one man, th president of the united states. he's going to be judged by the character that is revealed in his response to these scandals and this crisis for him, don't you think? >> yes, he is. and there was a moment during the war of 1812 where james madison was under scrutiny for an appointnt he made. he made his treasury secretary an ambassador as well and you can't dothat. what did they do? they got together and talked about it and they didn't fully work it out but they at least communicated. the members of congress and president madison. it's just a hugely different ball game. but character doesmatter, no matter the generation. it mattered highly to john quincy adams in 1812 andt certainly matters today. >> that mission to russia, as you point out, determinative of

a new republic. >> that's right. we needed russia to put pressure on england to leave us alone ce and for all. that's exactly what happened. >> the book is merican phoenix." the author, jane ampton cook. we recommend it to you highly. it's available online, at bookstores now. go to loudobbs.com if you want links to the book. president obama heading to hisometown of chicago, trying to put all of his scandals behind him for at least a day or so. but we'll talk to the a-team about whether he's about to lose his attorney general.

joining me now the a-team, former clinen advisorox news

contributor doug shone. fox news contributor eric ericsoand fox neww contributor ju williams. eat to have you a here. let me start if i may with attorney general holder. he is now going to talk with the distinguished bureau chiefs of print and broadcast organizations in washington to talk about how to beer serve subpoenas on them and spy on themnd get their records. how is that going to be a sweet bouquet and kiss to t national media that has been offended? >> well, at best it will be a wet kiss but i think it will be noiss at all. i think frankly the attorney neral has lost much, if not all, of his credibility. i don'think given what the justice department has done, he'll be --een too receptively. >> would you advise the president to get rid of him? >> i think he has to serious consider it, because his credibility given his testimony, i'm not sure it rises to the

level of perjury but there's certainly an operative question that raises the issue of a special prosecutor. >> juan williams, you've watched holder's testimo. let me ask you first, did he lie? >> o, i don't think . i think he was talking ecifically about publishing national security information and he was not party to any such discsion. he wasn't even technically party to t thought that you would prosecute james rosen. it was that he made a terrible error in listing james as a co-conspirator but no, he didn't lie about that to the house. >> eri do you concur with our colleague? >> well, i'm not so sure, given his statement pretty definitive that he didn't play a role in any of these investigations, he didn't sign off on them and now we know he did sign off on them. to his credit, i'll say attorney general s have a lot ofaper shoved in their face and signed, not necessarily knowing wh it is, but he did signit. it was his call.

we know he's concerned given the media push-back the last few days but fawning stories about how he's so upset that his public image isn't what he really believes. he d it. >> did he ever. let meeturn to the internal revenue service. four committeesow are pursng the internalrevenue service. it turns out, doug, that we've been lied to again. >> wel that to me, lou, is fairly clear. the story that we were first told about a limite investigation coming out of ncinnati by some low level employees is just plain false. we're learning of higher level involvement in washington, the treasury being informed earlier than the administration had indicated -- >> only by a year. only by a year. >> what's a year among friends. >> and only rising to the level of a deputy treasury secretary. is there any excuse for this level of -- i don't know what you nt to call it.

misrepresentation. we don't want to call it lies. i know you folks don't use that exprsion in washington. but thisis an administrationn the grip of an inability to find truth in their testimony before congress. >> well, i think there's a lot of, you know, hoo do you say it politely, i know we're on the great dobbs show so cover your something, derriere or sothing. >> we're all about t french. i tnk that everybody's in that mode, because you've seen people now, you know, forced out and lois lerner is concerned about her fifth amendment rights and refusing to testify and she's been called a liar. at this point, everybody is lawyered up.

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i want to do something i don't usually do. i want to turn to a study and e pew research showing that women have bome the breadwners in this country and a lot of other concerning and troubling statistics. but our society is being torn in so many directions right now. this stuff is really at the margin when you watch the republics and the mocrats, this president, his scandals, anthe appropriate investigation by the republicans. when we're watchin society dissolve around us, juan, what do you think?

>> lou, i just think this should be in large letters on the front page of every nepaper in america. wh we're seeing with four out of ten families now, the woman is the pmary breadwinner, you're seeing the disintegration of marriage, you're seeing men who were hard hit by the economic recession in ways that women weren't, but you're seeing i think systemically larger than the political storieshat we follow every day, something going terribly wrong in american society and it's hurting our children. and it's going to have impact for generations to come. left, right, i don't see how you can argue this. >> you mention children, and ose are the children who survive. 54 million abortions since roe v wade. 54 million in this country. what has been the impt of that? what does it say about our society, our high school dropouts. eric, your thoughts on tis study and what it portends. >> i'm so used to liberals telling conservatives that

they're anti-science but this is liberals who defend this and say it's not a bad thing are very anti-science, when you look at biology, look at the natural world, the roles of a male and a female in society and other imals, that the male typically is the dominant role, the female is not antithesis or not competing, it's a complementary role. we as people in a smartociety have lost the ability to have complementary relationships in nuclear families and it's tearg us apart. what i find interesting in the survey is that ree-quarters of the people surveyed recognize that having mom as the primary breadwinner is bfor kids and bad for marriage and reality shows us that's the truth. >> polittcians won't say it. that's what bothers me, eric. you kn what, they are so scared, they are so much a bunch of, you know, but they won't admit >> it's a war on women. >> i got to tell you it's tearing apart minority communities even worse than white communities in this country. >> yeah, look, i think i would associate myself completely with what juan is saying.

i wrote a biography once of daniel patrick moynihan. this is aatastrophic issue ann sadly, no one the left, right or center is deang with the breakdown of family structure. we're losng a generation. bottom line, itould undermine our social order. >> and it may in fact be doing that. as we lookt the absolute disaster that isur public education system and the fictions that ha grown up around what we've done to local schools. i mean, we've got a department of ecaon which is no, no replacement or substitute or even adequate, frankly, complement to local school distcthaving control of if it hits a communy, until we get this through our ad if it

hits any community in this country, it's our community. and this is not something that is, in my opinion, debatable. we are playing cannon fodder to the rhetoricians that want to use the language of race and division and we really oughto tell them to go to hell. we ought to say it first and foremo right here in the national media. >> the people thatant school choice and benefit from school choice the most are poor african-americans and hispanics. >> we're not talking about school choice. >> you were talking abou education. >> i'm talking about education and i don't want to hear the partisan words. i don't want to hear the idealogical nonsense. >> let's talk abouteaching our kids how to read, to write, express themselves, and to build relationships. eric, you'll get the last word here. >> you know, it beces more difficult for repubcans these days because they're so scared of the idea of the war on women and raising this issuet sods anti-women, the democrats bash them for it. t then to e basasic point,

we've got a society ofelites that not only don'think this is a bad thing, they're raising ds in schools to b workers, not citizens. >> well said. gentlemen, thank you.ome back, s is it here, see you tomorrow >> wheres it? winning streak on wall street goes on, and where is the austerity? let's bring economist frifdrich hey yeck back in the mix. >> what is austerity anyway? >> i do not know. >> i have no