it is great to have you here. come back and we will talk more. that is at rest tonight, we thank you for being with us. we will see you tomorrow. good night from new york. neil: goldilocks. one out of 75,000 more last month good enough to show growths and wonder today in the stock buying binge, nothing but this.

they have been focusing on something annoying and meddlesome. the latest news today reports the obama administration is indeed allowing the government to mind nine american tech giants like google and facebook that have more user data. only a day after we discovered discovered that millions of phone records from horizon customers. it was appalling, but it did not put so much of a dent in august. but romney knows why. first, in this friday exclusive with fox, a former republican presidential candidate with the likes of chris christie. >> it reads like the ballroom scene at star wars. how did you get them all at one pace and templates at one time.

>> i wanted to bring together people from both sides of the aisle. so we can hear from them and as a group we can listen to them and say what are the highest priorities and ask ourselves, are we actually addressing the highest priorities or not. the answer turned out to be not a surprise. the priorities are republicans are concerned about, the democrats, they're not being addressed. instead, washington is being pulled in a lot of different directions and not doing what has to be done soon how did you get david axelrod to appear? >> the mayor of los angeles, the democrat asked them to come. they were gracious and willing to come.

they were warmly received even though we disagreed the seemingly on policy. the funny thing is that we are all americans. we don't care about the country. we get along on a personal basis. we are looking for common ground and common vision for the future. >> debate over. neil: to david axelrod mentions percolating scandals? it appears out of control. >> there are some that are disconcerting. the irs and was certainly one of -hose. there other issues are other issues that have been brought to the force of the nsa monitoring. the various data exchanging exchange. being also raise questions and are not necessarily wrongdoing. we have to separate those and look into them. clearly the president's ability to manage the government of the

united states and the trust that americans have for the government has been averted by the kinds of revelations that have come forward about the irs. >> these privacy trade-offs are relatively modest were his words. this is not big brother. what you think of that? >> well, congress will take a look. the president saying that no one is reading e-mails or listening in on phone calls. if that is the case, then it will pretty much be attacked. people will say, that is a violation of principles and we don't know exactly where that is. everything that is going on in washington, he has a responsibility to care for the safety and security of this country and our people.

the practice of gathering information, looking for trends, finding things that might suggest someone is going to attack this country is an important part of his presidential role. at the same time, he has the responsibility to abide by the constitutton. and i hope he has been doing that. this is an area that will be looked into like many others. areas that we do know that there have been major problems and bad decisions being made. of course to ben bradlee, and i think frankly that subpoena of reporter records and phone calls is deserving of real concern. >> a lot of these are having data from a lot of internet coopanies like google and facebook and apple. asking horizon to hand over the phone records. it actually came after april 16. that was soon after the boston terror attacks.

would you have advocated trying to get your hands on this type of information? >> well, i really can't respond to that. not without having all the information about what precisely and how it could be used. also with the constitutional requirements. but in a modern age where people are planning attacks, using the communications vehicles that we have, including the internet. to look for communication that suggests attacks or taking credit for things that happened in the past. that certainly is a responsibility which the president and the government has to assume. you know, i am not going to just attack the president on this. and a lot of people are going to be unhappy that i'm not willing to attack him on this. but i'm going to say for the safety of this country, it comes

first. the constitution has to be followed. i don't know that it was ot followed in this case. before i did into the power of this, i want to learn more about how it was done and how it was used. >> dianne feinstein says it doesn't really bother her one bit. harry reid centcom down when the media was jumping about whether this was overreached. do you think that their response is justified that wasn't a big deal? >> well, i think personal communications are being watched by government and is concerning. particularly when they come on@ the heels of the revelations of the irs. some of the private information that is used for political purposes. there is a loss of trust in our government. there has been a breach of significant magnitude and people have a right to be very concerned. i don't think you can dismiss

this. at the same time, you don't claim that there has been a breach of principles until you see what has been done. that is something that investigation will occur. if you will, let's not forget the prosecution ahead of the facts. let's get to the facts and see if there has been some kind of inappropriate gathering of information. >> i mentioned harry reid. at a time when he stepped on the floor of the senate to say that he was very well aware it did raise the possibility that your tax return information or a part of it was leaked to him. what you think about? >> well, he obviously got this return and he actually laid out also what i paid in taxes over a

decade. i'd have paid millions and millions of dollars in taxes. there was never a year where i didn't pay a lot of money in taxes. i don't know where the source of data wise. neil: we talked about this, a major donor to your campaign. no fewer than three fewer audits. he lives on each and he had to pay $85,000. >> the idea of an agency that has our most personal information they have used that information to pursue a political agenda. that should be a very frightening thing to people on

both sides of the aisle. i know that it is. it is a negligent management that has allowed that to occur and it may be worse than negligence. we do not know who know knew about it and who directed it. but it is a violation of the american people will not soon forget. it has to end. in my view we have to put into place a special prosecutor to understand who knew what and how that information was used. we also need to put in place a structure which says that in the future, these audits and these inquiries by the irs and other agencies carry out various kindd of audits. these things have to be viewed as a nonpartisan and nonpolitical basis and ensure that these institutions are not pursuing a personal agenda of one kind or another. neil: using this goes beyond? they were involved in targeting these conservative groups and individuals.

you think it is bigger than that? >> well, if you don't have any process in place that is overseeing what agents are doing, you are opening the door for people to misuse data for their own personal and political vendettas or for other vendettas. this is what people across this country are afraid of. big government becoming so large and so intrusive that no one could stop it from interfering in our lives and punishing people without being required to go into the public and demand that information on a legal basis. how many people knew about this and how far up the ladder goes? we don't know. that is why we have to have a special prosecutor appointed to look at is to find out just who knew. >> we do know now that it was conservative efforts and those groups that were arguing on your

behalf. >> is infuriating. i have to tell you that it is not. >> i don't think there is evidence of enough wrongdoing of this stage. >> was he so preoccupied with

the conservatives are defending themselves and getting this irs off their backs? had a chilling effect to turn out voters were pursue this. if the government is not trampling on our rights as citizens of this country.

>> many. >> but after hurricane sandy. i know that that is your view. >> i can't speak for the members of my family. i have 21 grand kids. neil: the one i was talking about maybe your wife. >> well, i take responsibility for myself. i know what happens when there has been a natural disaster. you look for help from the federal government. you want other agencies to step in and provide help and ggvernor christie did what he thought was best for the people of this state. i don't blame them for that at all. he was helpful to me in my campaign in every way possible. i consider him a good friend.

he has a great future. he has been a triptych governor. he's doing a great job in new jersey. neil: so you don't agree that he got a little bit too chummy with barack obama. >> well, i can tell you that the hurricane didn't come n the right time. that is not because of chris christie. that is because one of the advantages of incumbency is because when there is an event like that, you get to see the president in a fatherly role in showing his sympathy for people who were harmed to have been victims of a storm and obviously, it gives a little boost to the president effort and that includes how the system works in the nature of politics. i am not going to go back and try to revisit battered by the right thing for me to do is to look forward and say how cings s put people back to work, getting america on track.

improving our health care system and getting the cost down. how can i do those things from where i sit today. neil: do you think that hurricane sandy, ford whatever severity -- included the presidents slide in the polls. looking at your first post debate performance, they felt that your campaign sort of sat on that. what do you think? >> well, we went after that first debate as hot and heavy as we could and kept promoting that as well as we thought we could. i'm sure people come up with ideas of things we might have done differently and that is always the nature of monday

morning quarterbacking. when you were in the middle of the game fighting hard yard by yard, you are doing your very best. i believe that my team was a superb team. i spoke with a leading democrat. i won't mention his name. this was a close race. the unemployment rate dropped below 8% for the first time. just weeks before the election. the media celebrated that. that made a difference. you are not going to spend your@ time saying what kinds of events could haae happened differently. the president made mistakes in his campaign. no one runs a perfect campaign. the net result is that he won, i lost. you get over that, you learn from the experience. you move on.

neil: nevertheless, with all of the scandals between benghazi and the justice department and the irs and the large number of groups in all of this occurring as the health services department heads up and pushes for health care, if this would've come up last fall, different result? >> you know, there is no way that i can make that calculation. but i can tell you what made a difference. and that is, again, one of the advantages of the incumbents. but for me, a lot of people are really focused on these scandals, and they are. this irs thing is troubling. the big issue on benghazi is why was there not a rescue mission. and you might say that we have succeeded. these are real issues and not

the same time, one of my biggest concerns is what is the president's agenda area. neil: mitt romney has some very serious concerns about what is going on with china. why he says we need to stop letting china were all over it before it is too late. >> this is the time for real backbone on the part of our nation to come up against china and say that you have to play by the rules. and you cannot hack into our computers or there will bei upgr consequences. s ♪ right. but theost important feature of all is... the capital one purchase eraser. i can redeem the double miles i earned with my venture card to erase recent ravel purchases. d with a few clicks, this mission neve happed. uh, what's this button do? [ electricity zaps ] ♪ you requested backup?

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neil: the dow jones industrial today. the federal reserve encouraged to keep doing its thing, which is why mitt romney said that he is not too impressed with this whole rally. governor, what do you think of the market's reaction and ben bernanke providing all of the fuel for this. what you think? >> well, there is no question. one of the reasons that people are putting money into the stock market as they see that the federal reserve continues to have a monetary policy. money printing. quantitative easing. money is pouring into the stock market. this will not end well.

you cannot keep on, if you will, pouring more and more money as a nation and not having to pay the piper at some point. bonds are going to continue to be key. prices will go up. you know, it's kind of disconcerting when you see the people who have stopped making a lot of money, even though you have lots of people, 7.5% of people that are unemployed. when you consider the other people who have dropped out of the work force. the stimulus and the monetary policy these are tough times. neil: so when you say that this will not end well.

what do you mean? >> well, you cannot keep on borrowing more than you taken forever. you cannot keep on printing money and keeping interest rates near zero for ever. at some point that has to reverse. the people that were loaning us the money say that i am a little concerned about the risk and they want higher interest rates. as they start going up will mean that they will see a lot of money going to pay people around the world. right now we have spent about $250 billion a year on interest. as interest rates return to a normal level, that number will go to $750 billion a year. that is more than we have spent on defense. a lot of that will be going to places like china. we will be paying for their schools and research. they will be investing in their future as we are paying off the sins of the past. this is not the management than anyone in their home would pursue.

instead, you try to live within your means and invest in the future but you do not file and print money. neil: you mentioned the chinese were they recklessly and repeatedly without abandon have included everything to defense contractors. how would you and how do you think that this president should respond to . >> you know, i think that we have a mindset the very poor countries try to get on its feet. but the reality is there has to

be consequences. neil: with the idea, what you think of that? >> there has to be consequence. clearly trade is one of the places where you have consequence. you cannot allow people to continue to abuse yourself without following international norms and lot without there being consequence. >> donald trump said and pardon my french, governor, screw them if they are going to, you know, treat us like this.

but in a decade or two, will so the only time we have for leverage to make sure that the practices that it exists between two nations that have interest, we want to see free trade and the rule of law. we have a lot in common in terms of interest and they are taking advantage of us right now. if we do not set those rules and make sure we are abiding by them, we are never going to do it a decade or so from now when they don't need us like they did today. this is the backbone and a part of our nation to come up against china if they didn't have to play by the rules. you cannot hack into our computers or there will be consequence. the kinds of trade relations and other relations that you have.

neil: would you ever run for president again? >> now. i took my chance. i took my message to the american people and i was not successful. it is time for someone else to take their message to the people. >> well, i think what hh was saying is -- and i have said that all this all along, i didn't want to become president for all of the benefits of the office and the thrills of being president. i looked at it as an opportunity to serve.

i wanted the job because i wanted to help the people of america make sure that they and the next generations live in a country that is free and prosperous. neil: would you ever want to be a treasury secretary in a future republican administration? >> i'm going back to the same point. i think that people who want a job with government get their priorities wrong. i don't think that the people -- if they feel that they can make a contribution, they sometimes have to say yes to something that they want to do is. neil: your son isn't ruling out a political future for himself.

>> i have terrific sons and daughters in law. the politics in the future. it is a tough road. we are going to have a tough road with the media. if you're not willing to deal with that, don't get into the race. you know that, i understood it, i don't have hard feelings. i think it is harder on my sons and daughter in law and my wife to watch their dad than it is for me. i watch my dad and, you know, it was harder on me than it was on him when i watched him in his campaign. that is dissuades going to be.

neil: governor, it is a pleasure. thank you very much, sir. >> thank you, it is good to be with you today. neil: all right, would have, should have, could have. with all of these scandals, nothing is getting done. and that will be harmful for this country whether republican or democrat oh this is lame, iestors could lose tens of thousands of dollars on their 401(k) to hidden fees. is that what you'reoong for, like a hidden fee in your giant mom bag? maybe i have them... oh that's right i don't because i roll my account over to e-trade where... woah. okay... they don't have hidden fees... hey fern. the nkrawer? why would they... is that my gerbil? you said he moved to a tiny farm. that's it, i'm running away. no, no you can't come! [ male announcer ] e-trade. less for us. more for you.

neil: mitt romney to me that the president promised that unemployment will go down. it is not going down. we have a former united states senator joining us now. andy, you were with the he had an eclectic idea. did they come to this conclusion that this was distracting?

>> it was really more about policy and politics. >> what happened? >> i got up on the stage and interviewed at john hickenlooper who is the governor of colorado and the two of us got along great. they talked about accountability, merit pay, tenure. things that you would not have thought about a republican speaking. we did address issues. but i think we have made some progress. neil: you and i have chatted about this before. one of the things i always admired about your career is how

you did try to find a middle ground. we have always said that one side can't get all he or she wants. but that is the mood right now. senator with these scandals developing, the enormous distractions, it is not as if washington can go ahead and multitask here. all scandal, all problems, nothing is going to get done. >> it does worry me. we have a system that is dysfunctional with very little ggtting done. there's only so much attention to go around. they run the risk of sucking all the oxygen out of the room and further our chance to address the things that mitt romney talked about and that is how do we create this.

>> it does concern me that this would distract further from focusing on the business at hand neil: harry reid said that we are making a big deal out of nothing. >> okay, with no one is reading your e-mails, no one is listening to your phone calls unless they get a judicial order a sometime. what they are doing is keeping a record of all of that. so let's see say that clark also someone and we are able to follow follow-up to try to identify the entire network.

so then we have to have that data so we can follow-up with them. but no one is listening in or following the e-mail of the ordinary americans. >> why did you have so many phone calls to dunkin' donuts, but that was another thing. asking you something that the governor talked about. without getting into who is to blame for this various scandal and invasions. i am paraphrasing here. it gets so big that this kind of stuff again, i am simplifying here, it is inevitable. you agree that? >> i agree that 100%. like when you run a company. core beliefs as the ceo trickle-down through the system. we have a government that is so big that you cannot run it directly.

the government should be good. president obama gave a speech at ohio state and penn state. right before all these scandals. it is that idea that government is good and big and big government is good in a kind of trickles down and empowers people in the bureaucracy to do things they really shouldn't be doing. i think the irs scandal, in my opinion, is the worst of all of them and that really epitomizes what happens when the government is out of control. >> i wonder whether that will be the scandal with the issue that resonates. so many people see this thing growing as an intrusion and coming to light almost every other day. what do you think? >> i think it is the biggest issue. mitt romney was right to identify this as well. because everyone has to deal with the irs. they are getting out of the way in doing things they shouldn't be doing, what else are they

doing? the role that they will be playing in health health care law, that has to be concerning. so this is the biggest of all of the different scandals. one other thing, if the mitt romney who appeared on your station had been the mitt romney running for president, i thought he was incredibly gracious and he was very good. i thought he did really well. >> you gave him every chance he one you know, i gave him every opportunity to give him the petty small person that i am, and he didn't take the bait. you gentlemen, you are an example of this environment which means you will never have a future in washington. [applause] the magdalen, thank you very much. >> thank you, neil. it is good to see you, senator. >> so how is it possible that

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neil: apparently even pottery company said that they really didn't know that they were getting spied on. the national security county officials under clinton and george w. bush. lee is 20 now. that is what worries me the most. if mark zuckerberg is posting that he was unaware of this and it was happening, then shouldn't that be concerning? >> it is complex in. i have no problem with the u.s. government analyzing e-mails and protocol, telephone calls between people in yemen and afghanistan. i'm actually supportive of that. what is a bit unusual is the extent to which the tech companies in the united states knew about this government activity. neil: if they didn't know that, if they are clueless, the

government seems to have gotten far more than these guys were aware of. >> there is an issue with. >> in other words there is technical information about how they collected this. >> internet is like a highway system and there is a possibility that the government was watching what was happening on the highway. if the government was watching what was happening, that possibly there was a tech company that would not have known about that. neil: would say ttat unbeknownst to them at some point the government went ahead and got the information they wanted and came back and asked for it. if that were the case. >> is happening outside the united states and directing citizens, i don't think that any non-us nationals have any expectations. >> these are the vehicles in the

united states for which it was done. >> we don't know enough to say that. >> but if it were? >> there is an issue about the government accessing the property and the servers of u.s. technology companies in the united states. i personally like to know more about that. but this is a perfect understanding. >> that is going on abroad and the government is doing that but they are still doing it in this way and the entities don't know anything about it, they have gone ahead and just raided the house. it depends on how this is being done.

>> i'm happy they are helping out. >> when they are happy about it, they take an inch in the mile at the same time. >> you know, we all have to be talking about privacy and protecting our national security. >> that is the intention of these -security. >> that is the intention f these programs are it that is true. when we come back, is part of it is just a response to the government. we will have that coming up.

neil: this may be nothing more than the government getting out of control and a few bad eggs would he think of that, let's? >> she touched on the central sphere. the irs people who worked under reagan. many will say thaa this isn't a problem. watch out what they are doing it to you. because that is so with easy. we are in a whole new world and that is what i think struck a

chord. neil: in case of this, you are a hing toown and respected liberal it. it is too big for even you. >> no doubt we would have had we have those results with president obama. >> aren't you going to want to do this as well to track this down? >> absolutely he would. >> i just find it jane marks -- and i do think liberals were

complaining today about republicans going overreach. >> obviously this is something that has been there. the irs has a hundred thousand employees. there are a lot of good employees. >> it is the quality of the town and people managing this.

>> here it is, mr. axelrod. obama said the same thing. the government is too big. that is the same complaints that the tea party has been making. >> when i see the dismissal of this, i have to say wait a second, when you talk to people who ran the irs and they say watch out if you are not on the same team, they have seen it happen, it is so still busy to run a big government and feel powerful at that. >> i was just going to say the people running the irs, per se. it is quality people. government is going to continue to grow. the economy grows, the population grows.

>> and is one of the things that i have. if we know part of this growing problem is the birth, then wouldn't you think twice about signing this to the irs when it comes to health care? >> potentially. >> you know, i think that people are bleeding their fear into their fear of government spying from the corporate spying. >> exactly. for me, personally, i am more concerned with consumer privacy with the iris. >> google, gmail, you do a search on any medical disease. when you apply for health insurance than they assume that

you have this with a prr-existing condition. >> the company can't find you for this. they can't basically, you know, some people after you who are giving you a hard time. i hear what you are saying. neil: should the government be worried about liz macdonald? 's. [laughter] we have already seen cases where the irs takes over health care. >> i am not afraid. i wanttyou to know that i do think that there are quality people.

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