thank you for being with us. we will see you tomorrow. good night from new york. neil: goldilocks. one out of 75,000 more last month good enough to show growth and wonder today in the stock buying binge, nothing but this.

they have been focusing on something annoying and meddlesome. the latest news todayreports the obama administration is indeed allowing the government to mind nine american tec giants like google and facebook that have more user data. only a day after we discovered discovered that millions of phone records from horizon customers. it was appallingbut it did not put so much of a dent in august. but romney knows wh. first, in this friday exclusive with fox, a frmer republican esidential candidate withhe likes of chris christie. >> it reads like the ballroom scene at star wars. how did you get them all at one pace and templates at one time.

>> i wanted to bring together people from both sides of the aisle. so we can hear from them and as a group can listen to them and say what are the highest priorities and ask ourselves, are we actuall addressing the highest priorities or t. the answer turned out to be not a surprise. the priorities are republicans are concerneabout, the democrats, they're not bein addressed. instead, washington is being lled in a lot of different directions and not doing what has to be doe soon how did you get david axelrod to appear? >> the mayor of los angeles, the democrat asked them to come. they were gracious and willing to come.

they were warmly received even though we disagreed the seemingly on policy. the funny thing is thate are all americans. we don't care about the coutry. we get along on a personal basis. we are looking for comn ground and common vision for the future. >> debate over. neil: to david axelrod mentions percolating scandals? it appears out of control. there are some that rting. the irs an w certainly one of -hose. there other issu are other issues that have been brought to the force of the nsa monitoring. the rious data excag exchange. beinalso raise questions and are not necessarily wrongdoing. we have to separate those and look into them. clearly the president's ability to mane the government of the

united states and therust that americans have for the government has been averted by the kinds of revelations that have come ard about the irs. >> these privacy trade-offs are retively modest were his words. this is not big brother. what you think of that? >> well, congress will take a look. the prident saying that no one is reading e-mails or listing in on phone calls. that is the ase, then it will pretty much be attacked. people will say, that is a violation of principles and we don't know exactly wherehat is. everything that is going on in washington, he has a responsibility to care for the safetynd security of this country and our peoople.

the practice of gathering information, looking for trends, finding things that might suggest someone is going to attack this country is an important part of his presidential role. at t samtime, he has the responsibilityo abide by the constitutton. and i hope he has been doing that. this is anarea that will be lookednto li many others. areas that we do know that tre have been major roblems and bad decisions being made. of course to ben bradlee, and think frankly that subpoena of reporter records and hoe calls is deservg of real concern. >> a lot of these are having data from a lot of internet coopanies like google and facebook and appl asking horizon to hand over the phone records. it actually came after april 16. that was soon after the boston terror attacks.

would you hve advocated trying to get your hands on this type of information? >> well, i really can't respond to that. not without having all the information about what precisely and how it could be used. also wh the constitutional requirements. but a modern age where people are plannin attacks, using the communications vehicles that we have, including the internet. to look for communicationthat suggests attacks or taking credit for things that happened in the past. that certainly is a responsibility which the president and the government has to asume. you know, i am not going to just attack the president on this. and a lot of people are going to be unhappy that i'm t willing to attack him on this. but i'm going to say for the safety of this country, it comes

first. the constitution has to be followed. don't ow that it was ot followed in this case. before i did into the power of this, i want to learn more about how w it was done and h it was used. >> diae feinstein says it doesn't really bother her one bit. harry reid centcom down when the media was jumping about whether is was overreacd. do you think that their response is justified that wa't a big deal? >> well, i think person communications are being wched by government and is concerning. particularly when they come on@ the heels of th revelations of the irs. some of the private information that is used for political purpes. there is a loss of trust in our government. there ha beea breach of significt magnitude and people have a right to be very concerned. i don't think you can dismis

this. at the same time, ou d't claim that there has been a brch of principles until you see what has been done. thatis something that investigation ll occur. if you will, let'snot forget the prosecution ahead of the facts. let's t to the facts andsee if there has been se kinof inapproprie gatherg of information. >> i mentioned h harry reid. at a time when h stepped on the floor of the senateo say that he was very well aware it did raise the possibility that your tax return information or a part of it was leaked to him. whatou think about? >> well, he obviously got this return and he actuallylad ou what i paid n taxesover a

decade. i'd have paid millions and millio of dollars in taxes. there was never a yearhere i didn't pay a lot of money in taxes. i n't know where the source of data wise. neil: w talked about this, a major donor to your campaign. no fewer than three fewer audits. he lives on each and he had to pay $85,000. >> the idea an agency that ha our most personal informion tey have used that information t pursuea political agenda. that uld be a very frightening thing to people on

both sides of t aisle. i know that it is. it is a negligent management that has allowed that to occur and it may be worse than negligence. we do not know who know knew about it and who directed it. but it is a violation of the american people will not soon forget. it h to end. in my view we have to put into place a special prosecutor to understand who knew hat ad how that informaon was used. we also need to put place a structure which says that in the future, these audits and these inquiries by the irs and other agencies carry out various kindd of audits. these things have t be iewed as a nonpartisan d nonpolitical basis a ensure that the institutions are not pursuing a personal agenda of one ki or another. neil: using this goes beyond? they were involved in targeting these conservative gros an

individuals. you think it is bigger than that? >> well, if you don't have any process in place that is overseeing what agents are doing, youre opening the door for people to misuse data or their own personal and political vendettas or for other vendettas. this is what peoplacross this country are afraid of. big government becoming so large and so intusive that no on could stop it fromnterfering in ouriv a punishing people without being required to go into the public and demand that information on a legal basis. how many pple knew about this and how far up the ladder goes? we don't know. that is why we have to have a special prosecutr appointed to look at is to find out just who knew. >> we do know now that it was conservative efforts and those

groups that were arguing on your behalf. >> is infuriating. i have to tell you that it is not. >> i don't think there is evidence of enough rongdoing of thisstae. >> was heo preoccupied with

the conservativeare defending themselves and getting this irs off their backs? had a chilling efect to turn out voters re pursue ths. if the government is not trampling on our rights as citizens of this country.

>> many. >> but after hurricane sandy. i know that that is your view. i can't speak for the members of my family. i have 21 grand kids. neil: the one i was talking aboumaybe your wife. >> well, i take responsility for myse. i know what happens wn there has been a natural isaster. you look for help from the federagovernment. you want other ancies to step in and provide help and ggvernor christie did what he thought was best for the people of this state. i don't blame them for that at all. he was helpful to me in y campai in every way possible. consider him aood friend.

he has a grea future. he has been a triptych governor. he's doing a great job in new jersey. neil: so you don't agree that he got a little bit too chummy wih barack bama. >> well, i can tell you that the hurricane didn't come n the right time. that is not because of chris christie. that is becau one of the advantages of incumbency is becauswhen there is an event like that, you get to see the president in a fatherly role in showing his sympathy for people who were harmed toave been victims of a storm and obviouy, it gives aa little boost to the president efforort and that includes how the system works in the nature of politics. i am not going tog back and try to revisit battered byhe right thing for me to do is to look forward anday how can the things i care about which helps put people back to work, getti america on track.

improving our health care system and getting the cost dwn. how can i o those things from where i sit today. neil: do you think that hurricane sany, ford whatever severity -- included te presidents sde in the plls. looking at your first post debate performance they felt that your campaign sort of sat on that. what do you think? >> well, we went after that first debate as hot and heavy we could and kept promoting that as well as we ought we could. i'sureeople come up with ideas of things we might have done differently and that is always the natu of monday

morning quarterbacking. when you were i the middle of the game fighting hard yard by yard, you e doing your very best. i believe that my team was a superbteam. i spoke with a leading democrat. i won't mention his name. this was a close race. the unemploymentate dropped below 8% or the first time. just weeks before the eleion. the media celebrated that. that made a difference. you are not going topend your@ time saying whatkinds of events could ha happened differently. thepresident mae mistakes in his campaign. nono one runs a perfect campai. the net result ihat he n, i lost. you get over that, you learn fr the experience. you move on.

neil: vetheless, with l of the scandals between benghazi and the jtice department and the irs and the large number of groups in all othis ccurring as the health services department heads up andpushes for health care, if is would've cme up last fall, diffent result? >> you know, there is no way that i can make that calculation. but i can tell you what made a difference. and thats, again, one of the advantages of the incumbents. but for me, lot of people are really focused othese scandals, anand they are. this irs things oubling. the big issue on benghazi is why was there not a rescue mission. and you might say that we have succeeded. these are realissues and not

the same time, one of my biggest concerns is at is the president's agenda area. neil: mitt romney has some very serious concer about wt is going on with china. why he sayswe need to stop letting china were all over it before it is too lt. >> this is the time for real backbone on the part of our nation to comep against china and sathat you have to play by th rules. and

neil: e dow jones industrial today. the federal reserve encouraged to keep doing ts thing, which is why mitt romney said that he is n too impressed with this whole lly. governor, what do you think of bernanke providing all of the fuel for this. what you think? >> well, there is no question. one of the reasons that people are putting money io the stock market as they see that the federal reserve continues to have a metary policy. money printing. quantitative easing. money is pouring into the stock market. this will not end well.

you cannot keep on, f you will, pouring morend more money as a nation an not hang to pay the pir at some point. bonds are goingto continue to be key. prices will go up. you know, it's kind of disconcerting when you see the people who have stopped making a lot ofoney, even though you have lots of people, 7.5%of people that are unemployed. when you consider the other people who have dropped out of the work force. thstimulus and the monetary policy hese are toughies. neil: so whenou say that this will not end wl.

what dyou mean? >> well,ou cannot keep o borrowing more than you taken forever. you cannot keep on printing money and keeping interest rates near zero for ever. at some point that has to reverse. the people that were oaning us the money say that i am a little concerned about thrisk and thant higher interest rates. as they stat going up will mean that they will see a lot of money going to pay peoe around e world. right now we have spent about 50 billion a year on intert. as interest rates return to a normal level, that numbe will go to $750 bilion a year. that is more than we have spent on defense. a lot of that will be going to places like china. we will aying for thr schools and research. they will be investing in thr future as we are paying offhe sins of the past. is is not the management than anyone in theirhome wld pursue.

instead, you try to live within your means and invest in the future but you do not file and print money. neil:you entioned the chinese were they reckless and repeatedly without abandon hve included everything to defense contractors. how would you and how d you think that this president should respond to . >> you know, i think that we have a mindset the very poor countries try to get on its feet. but the reality is there has to

be consequences. neil: with the idea, what you thk of that? >> t has to be consequence. clearly trade one of the places whereyou have consequence. you cannot alow people to continue to abse yourself without following international norms and lot without there being consequence. >> donald trump said and pardon my french, governor, scew them if they are goig to,you know, treat us like this.

but in a decade or two, will so the only time have for leverage to make sure that the practices that it exists between two nations that have interest, we want to see free trade an the rule of law. we have a lot in common in terms of interest and they are taking advante of us right now. if we do not set those rules and make sure we are abiding by them, we are never going to do it a decade or so fromm now when they don't need us like they did today. this is the backbone and a part of our nationto come up against china if they di't havto play by the rules. you cannot hack into our mputers or there will be nsequence. the kinds of ade relations and other relations that you have.

neil: wouldou ever run for presiden again? >> now. i took my chance. i took my message to the american people and i was not successful. it is time for someone else to take their message to the people. >> well, i think what hh was saying is -- and i have said that all this all along, i didn't want become president for all of the benefits of the office and the thrills of being president. i looked at it as an opportunity to serve.

i wanted the job because i wanted to help the people of america make surthat they and the next generations live in a country that is free and prosperous. neil: would you ever want to be a treasury secretary in a future republican administration? >> i'm going back to the same point. i think that people who want a job with gernment get their priorities wrong. idon't think that the people -- if they feel that ty can make a contribution, they sometimes have to say yes to something that they want tdo is. neil: your son isn't ruling out a political future for himelf.

>> have terrific sons and daughters in w. the politics in the future. it is a tough road. we are going to have a tough road with e media. if you're not willing to deal with that, 't get into the race. you know that, i understood it, i don't have hard feelings. i think it is hard on my sons and uger in law and my wife to watchtheir dad than it is for me. i watch my dad and, you know, it was harder on me than it was on him when i watched him in his campaign. that is dissuades going to be.

il: governor, it is a pleasure. thank you verymuch, sir. >> thank you, it is good to be withou today. neil: allright, would have, shouldhave, could have. with all of these scandals, nothing is getting done. and that will be harmful for this country whether republican or democrat

neil: mitt romney to me that the president promised that unemployment will go down. it is not going down. we have a fmer united states senator ining us now. andy, you were with the he had an eclectic idea. did hey come to this conclusio that this was disracting?

>> it was rely more about policyand politics. >> what happened? >> i got up on the stage and interviewed at john hickenlooper who is the governor of colorado and the two of us got along grt. they talked about accountability, merit pay, tenure. things that you would not have thought about a republican speaking. we did address sues. but i ink we have made some progress. neil: you and i have chatted about this before. one of the things i always dmired abo your career is how

you did try to find a middle ground. we have always said that ne side can't get all h or she wants. but that is the mood right now. senator with these scanls developing, the enormous distractions, iis not as if washington can go ahead and multitask here. all scandal, all problems, nothing going to get done. >> it does worrye. we have a ystem that is dysfctional with very little gging done. there's onlyo much attention to go rond. they run the risk of sucking all the oxygen out of the room and further our chance to address the things that mitt rmney talked about and that is how do we create his.

>> it does concern me that this would distract further from focusing on the business at hand neil: harry reid said that are making a big deal out of nothing. >> okay, with no one is readin your e-mails, no one is listening to your phone calls unless they get a judicialorder a sometime. what they are doing is keeping a record of all of tht. so let's see sy that clark also someone and we are able to follow follow-up to try to identify thentire network.

so then we have to have that data so we can follow-up with them. but no one is listening in or following the e-mail of the ordinary americans. >> why did you have so many phone calls to dunkin' donuts, but that was another thing. asking you somethi that the governor talked about. without getting intowho is to blame for this various scandal and invasions. i am paraphrasing here. it gets so big that this kind of stuff again, i am simplifying here, it is inevitable. you age that? >> i agree that 100%. like when you rua company. core beliefs as the o trkle-down hrough the system. we have a government that is s big that you cannot run it directly.

the government shouldbe good. presidt obama ga a speech at ohio state and penn state. right before all these scandals. it is that idea that government is good and big and big government is god in a kind of trickles down and empowers people in the bureaucracy to do things they really shouldn't be doing. i think the irs scandal, in my opinion, is the worst of all of them and that really epitomizes what happens when the government is out of control. >> i wonder whether that will be the scandal with the ssue that resonate so manpeople see this thing growg as an intrusion and coming to lit almost every other day. what do you think? >> i think it is the biggest issue. mitt romney ws right to identify this as well. because everyone has to deal with the irs. th are getting out of t way in doi things they shouldn't be doingwhat else are they

ing? the role that they will pling in health health care law, that s to be concerning. so this is the bigst of all of the different scandals. one other thing, f the mitt romney who appeared on your station had beenthe mitt romney running for president, i thought he was incredibly gracious and he was very good. i thought he did eally well. >> you gave him every chance he one you know, i gave him every oprtunity to give him the petty small person that i am, and he didn't take the ait. you ntlemen, you are an example of this environment which means you will never have a future in washington. [applause] the magdalen, thank y very much. >> thank you, nei it is good to seu, senator. >> so how is it possible that

the biggest

neil: appaently even pottery company said that they really didn't know that they were getting spi on. the national security county officials under clton and george w. bush. lee is 20 now. that is what worries me the most. if mark zuerberg is posting that he ws unaware of tis and it was happening, then shouldn't thateconcerning? >> it is complex in. i have no problem with the u.s. government analyzinge-mails d protocol, telephone calls between people in yemen and afghanistan. i'm actually supportive of that. wh is a bi unusu is the extent to which the tec companies in the united states knew abouthis government activity. neil: if they didn't know that, if thy re clueless, the

government seems to ha gten far more than these guys we aware of. >> there is an issue with. >> in othr words there is technicainformation about how they collected this. >> iernet is like a highway system and there is a possibility that the government was watching what was happening on the highway. if the government was watching what was happening, that possibly there was a tech company that would not have known about that. neil would say ttat unbeknnst to them at some point th government went ahead and got the information they wanted and came back and asked fo it. if that were the case. >> is happening outside the ited states and directing citizens, i don't think tt any non-usationals hav any expectations. >> these are the vehiclein the

united states for which it was done. >> we don't know enough to say that. >> but if it were? >> there is an issue about the government accessing the property and the servers of u.s. technology companies in the united states. i personally like to know more about that. but this is a prect understanding. >> that is going on aboad and the government is doing that but they are still doing it in this way and the entities don't know anything about it, they hav gone ahead and just raided the house. it depends on how this is being done.

>> i'm happy they are helping out. >> when they are happy about it, they take an inch inhe mile at the same time. >> you kno we all have to be lking about privacy and protecting our national security. >> that is the intention of these -security. >> that ishe intention f these programs are it that is true. when we come back, is pa of it is just a response to the gornment. we will have that coming w

neil: this may be nothing more an the government getting out of control and a few bad eggs would he think of that, let's? >> she touch on the central sphere the irs people who worked under reagan. many will say thaa this isn't a problem. watch out what they are doing it to you. because at is so with easy. we are in a whole ne world and that is what i think struck a

chord. neil: in case of this, you are a well-known and respected liberal >>aybe there is somhing to it. it is too big for even you. >> no doubt we would have had we have those results with president obama. >> aren't you going to wan to do this as well to track this down? >> absolutely he would. >> i just find it jane marks-- and i do think liberals were

complaining today about republicans gog overreach. >> obviously this is something th has bee there. the irs has aundred thousand employees. there are a lot of good employees. >> it is the quality of thtown and eople managg this.

>> here it is, mr alrod. obama said the same thing. the government is too big. that is the same complaints tha the tea party has been making. >> when i see the dismissal of this, i have to say wait a second, when you talk to people who ran the irs and they say watch out if you are not othe same team, they have seen it happen, it is so still busy to run a big government and feel powerful at hat. >> i was just going to say the people running the irs, per se. it is quality people. government is going to continue to grow. the onomy grows, the population grows.

>> and is one of the things that i have. if we know part of this growing problem is the birth, then wouldn't you think twice about signing this to the irs when i comes to health care? >> potentially. >> you know, i think that ople are bleeding their fear into their fear of gvernment spying from the corporate spying. >> exactly. for me, perssonall i am more concerned th consur privacy with the iris >> google, gmail, you a sechn any medical disease. when you applyor health insurance than they assume th

you have this with a prr-existing condition >> the company can't find you for this. they can't basilly, you know, some people after you who are giving you aard time. i hear what you are saing. neil: should the government be worried about liz macdonald? 's. [laughter] we have already seen cases where the irs takes over health car. >> i am not afraid. i wanttyou to know that i do think that there are uality people.

>> the irs doesn't want be a regulat

♪ neil: good evening, everybody. thank you for being with us. as we go through he day's events and developments, it may help us t remember we're all in this together. there is a lot to cover tonight. with the white house and this esident engulfed in scandals, trust is noo unexpectedly eroding inhe administration. it may have rendered him a lame duck before his tie. his desire for relevance may be frustrated the remainder of hi term. the cutting consequences of this president's toxic ladehip style are much in evidence tonight. consider this. his approval rating dropped another point overnight. it does remain at 47%. business co