thank you for being with us. we will see you tomorrow. good night from new york. neil: goldocks. one out of 75,000 more last month good enough to show growths and wond today in the stock buying binge, nothing but this.

they have been focusing on something annoying and ddlesome. the last news today reports the obama administration is indeedllowing the government to mind nine america tech giants le google and facebook that have more user data. only a day after we discovered discovered that millions of phone records from horizon customers. it was appalling, buit did not put so much of a dent in august. but romney knows why. first, in this friday exclusive with fox, a former republican presidential candidate with the likes of chris christie. >> it reads like the ballroom scene at star wars. how did you get them all at one pace and templates at one time.

>> i wanted to bring together people from both sides of the aisle. so we can hear rom th and as a group we can listen to tem and say what are the highest priorities and ask ourselves, are we actually addressing the highest priorities or not. the answer turned out to be not a surprise. the priorities are republicans are concerned about, the democrats, there not being addressed. instead, washington is beg pulled in a lot different directions and not doing what has to be done soon how did you get vid axelrod to appear? >> the mayor of los angeles, the democrat asked them to come. they were gracious and willing to cme.

they were warmly received even though we disagreed the seemingly on policy. the funny thing is that we are all amerans. we don't care about thecountry. we get along on a personal basis. we are looking for common ground and common vision for the future. >> debate over. neil: to davidxelrod mentions percolating scandals? it appears out of control. >> there are some that are disconceing. the irs and was certainly one of -hose. there other issues are other issues that have been brought to the force of the nsa monitoring. thvarious data exchanging exchange. being also raise questions and are not necessarily wrongdoing. we have to separate those and look into them. clearly the preside's ability to manage the government of the

united states and the trust that americans have f the government has been averted by the kinds of revelations that have come forward about the irs. >> these privacy trade-offs are relatively modest were his words. this is not big brotthe what you think of that? >> well, cgress will take a look. the president saying that no one is reading e-mails or listening in on phone calls. if that is the case, then it will retty much be attacked. ople will say, that is a violation of principles and we don't know exactly where tha is. everything that isoing on in washington, he has a responsibility to care for the safety and security of this country and our people.

the practice of gathing information, looking for trends, finding things that might suggt someone is going to attack this country is an important part of his presidential role. at the same time, he has the responsibility to abide by the constitutton. and hope he has been doing that. this is an area that will be loed into ke many others. areas that we do knowthat there have been major problems and bad decisions being made. of course to benradlee, an i think frankly that subpoena of reporter records and phone clls is deserving of real concern. >> a lot o tse are having data from a lot of internet coopanies like google and facebook and appl asking horizon to hand over the phone records. it aually came after april 16. that was soon afr the boston terror attacks.

would you have avocated trying to g your hands on this type of information? >> well, i really can't respond to that. not without having all the information about what precisely and how it could be used. also with the constitutional requirements. but in a modern age where people arplanning attacks, using the communications vehicles that we have, including the internet. to look for communication that suggests attacks or taking credit for things that happened in the past. that certainly is a reonsibility which the president and the government has to assu. you know, i am not goin to just attack theresident on this. d a lot of people are going to be unhappy tha i'm not willing to attack him on this. but i'm going to say for the safety of tis country, it comes

first. the constitution has to be followed. i don't know that it was ot follow in this case. before idid into the power of this, i wan to lea more about how it was done and how it was use >> dianne feinstein says it doesn't really bother her one bit. harry reid centcom down when the media was jumping about ether this was overreached. do you thin that heir response justified that wasn't big deal? >> well, i think ersonal communicatio are beingatched by gvernment and is concernng. particularly when they come on@ the heels of the revelations of the irs. some of the private information that is used for political purposes. there is a loss of trust in our government. there has been a breach of significant magnitude and people have a right to be very concerned. i don't think you can dismiss

this. at the same time, you don't claimtat there has been a brch of principles until you see what has been done. that is something that investigation will occur if you will, let's not forget the prosecution ahead of the facts. let's get to the facts and see if there has beenome kind of inappropriate gathering of information. >> i mentionedarry reid. at a time when he stepped on the floor of the senate to say that he was very well aware it did raise possibility hat your x return information or a part of it was leaked to him. what you think about? >> well, he obviously got this return and he actuall laid out also what i paid in taes over a

deca. i'd have paid millions an millions of dollars in taxes. there was never a year where i didn't pay a lot of money in taxes. i don't know where the source of data wise. neil: we alked about this, a major donor to your campaign. no fewer thanthe fewer audits. he lives on each and he had to pay $85,000. >> the idea of an agency that has our most personal information they have used that inrmation to pursue a political agenda. that should be a very frighting thing to people o

both sides o the aisle. i know that it is. it is a negligent management that has allowed that to occur and it may be worse than negligence. we do noknow who know knew about it and wh directed it. but it is a violation of the american people will not soon forget. it has to end. in my view we have to put into place a special prosecutor to understand who knew what and how that information was used. we also need to put in place a struure whh says that in the future, these audits and these inquiries by the irs and other agencies carry out various kindd of audits. these things haveto be viewed as a nonpartisan and nonpolitical basis and ensure that these institutions are not puuing a personaagenda of one kind or another. neil: using this goes beyond? they were ivolved in targeting thesconservative groups and

individuals. you thk it is bigger than that? >> well, if you d't have any process in place thatis overseeing what agents ar doing, you are opening the door for people tomisuse data for their own personal and political vendettas or for other vendettas. thiss what pple across this country are afraid of. big government becoming so large d so intrusive that no one could stop it from interferg in our lives and punishing people witthout being required o go into the public and deman that infmation on a legal basis. how many people knew aboutthis and how far up the ladder goes? we don't know. that is why we have to have a special prosecutor appointed to look ais to find out just who knew. >> we do know now that it was conservative efforts and those groups that were arguing on your

behalf. >> is infuriating. i have to tell you tt it is not. >> i don't think there is eviden of enough wrongdoing of this stage. >> was he so preoccupied with

the onservatives are nding themselvesnd getting this irs off their backs? had a chilling effect to turn outvoters were pursue this. if the government is not trampling on our rights as citizens of this country.

>> many. >> but after hricane sandy. i know that that is your view. >> i can't speak for t members of my family. i have 21 grand kids. neil: the one i was talking about maybe ur wife. >> wl, i take responbility for myself. i know what happens when there has been a natural disaster. you look for help from the federal government. you want other agencies tostep in and provi help and ggvernor christie did what he thought was best for the pple of this state. i don't blame them for tt at all. he was helpful to men my campaign in eve way possible. i consider him a good friend.

he has a great future. he has been a triptych governor. he's doing a great job in new jersey. neil: so you don't agree that he got a lile bit too chummy with barack obama. >> well, i can tell you that the hurricane didn't come n the right time. that is not because of chris christie. that i because one of the advantages of incumbency is because when tre is an event like that, you get to see the president in a fatherly role in showing his sympathy for eople who we harmed toavbeen victims of a storm and obviously, it gives a little boost to the president effort and that includes how the system works inthe nature of politics. i am not goingto go back and try to revisit battered by the right thing for me to do is to look forward and say how c the things i care about which helps put people back to work, getting amica ontrack.

improving our health care system and getting the cost down. how can i do those things from where i sit toda. neil: do you think that hurricane sandy, ford whatever severity-- included the presidentslide in the polls. looking at your first post debate performance, they felt that yourampaign sort of sa on that. what do you think? >> well, we went after that first debate as hoand heavy as we could and kept promoting th as well as we thought we could. i'm sure people come up with ideas of things we might hav done differently and that is always the nature of monday

morning quarterbacking. when you were in the middle of the game fhting hard yard by yard, you are doing your very best. believe that my team was a rat.rb team. i won't mention hisname. this was a close race. the unemployment rate dropped below 8% for the first time. just weeks before the election. the media celebrated that. that made a difference. you are not going to spendyour@ time saying what kinds of events could haae happened differently. the president made mistakes in his campaign. no one runs a perfect campaign. the net result is that he won, i lost. you t over that, you learn from the experience. you move on.

neil: nevertheless, with all of the sandals betetween benghazi and the justice departmt and the irs and the large number o groups in all of this occurring as the alth rvices departmentheads up and puhes for health care, if this would've come u last fall, different result? >> you know, there is no way that i an make that calculation. but i can tell you what made a difference. and that is, again, one of the advantages of the incumbents. but for me, a lot of people are really focused on these scandals, and they are. this irs thing is troubling. the big issue on benghazi is why was there not a rescue mission. and you might say that we have sueeded. these are real issues and not

the same time, one of my biggest concer is what is the president's agenda area. neil: mitt romney has some very seous concer about what is going on with china. why he says we need to stop letting china were all over t before it isoo late. >> this is the tim for real backbone on the part of r nation tcome up against china ansay that you have to play by the rule an

neil: the dow jones industrial today. the federal reserve enouraged to kp doing its thing, which is w mitt romney said that he is not too impressed with this whole rally. governor, what do youthink of the market's reaction and ben bernke providing all of the fuel f this. what you think? >> well, there is no question. onof the reasons that people areputting money into the stock market as they see that the federal reserve continues to ve a monetarlicy. money printing. quantitative easing. money is pouring into the stock market. this will not end well.

you annot keep on, if you will, pouring more and more money as a nation and not having to pay the piper at some point. bonds are going to cotinue to be key. prices will go up. you know, it's kind of disconcerting when you see te people who have stopped making a lot of money, even though you have lots of people, 7.5% of people that are unemployed. when you consider e other peopleho have dropped t of work force. the stimulus and the monetary policy these are tough imes. neil: so when you say that this will not end well.

what do you mea? >> well, you cannot keep on borrowing more than you taken forever. you cannot keep on printing money and keeping interest rates near zero for ever. at some int that has to reverse. the people that were loing us the money say that i am a little ncerned about the risk and they want higher interest rates. as they start going up will mean that they will see a lot of money ing pay people around the world. right w we have spent aut $250 billion a year on interest. as intest rates reurn to a normal level, that numr will go to $750 billion a year. that is more than we have spent on defense. a lot of that will be going to places like china. we will be payg r their schools and research. they will be investing in their future as we are paying off the sins of the past. this s not the management than anyone in their home wld pursue.

instead, you try to live within your means and invest in the future but you do not file and print money. neil: you mentionedhechinese were they recklessly and repeatedlywithout abandon have inuded everything to defense contractors. how wd you and how do you think that this president should respond to . >> you know, i think that we have a mindset the very poor countries try to get on its feet. but thereality is there has to

be consequences. neil: with the ide, what you think of that? >> there has to be consequence. clearly trade is one of the places where you have consequence. you cannot allow people to continue to abuse yourself without following international norms and lot without ere being consequence. >> donald trump said and pardon my french, governor, screw them if they are goingto, you know, treat us like this.

but in a decade or two, will so the only timwe have for leverage to make sure e that the practices that it exists between two nations that have interest, wewe want to s free trade and the rule of law. we have a lot in common in terms of interest and they are takin adntage of us right now. if we do not et those rules and make surewe are abiding by them, we are never oing to do it a decade or so from now when th don't need us like they did today. this is the backbone and a part of our nation to come up against china if they didn't have to play by the rules. yocann hack into our computers or there will be consequence. the kinds of trade relations and otherelations that you have.

neil: would you ever run for president again? >> w. i took my chance. i took my message to the american people and i was not successful. it is time for someone else to ta their message to the people. >> well, i think what hh was saying is -- and i have said that all this all along, i didn't want to become president for all of the benefi of the office and the thrills of being president. i looked at it as an opportity to serve.

i wanted theob because i wanted to help the peoplof america make sure thathey and the next generations live in a country that is free and prosperous. neil: would you ever want to be a treasury secretary in future republican administration? >> i'm going back to the same point. i think that people who want a job with government get their priorities wrong. i don't think thatthe people -- if they feel at ty can make a contribution, they sometimes ha to say yes to something that they wa to do is. neil: your son isnt ruling out a political future for himself

>> i hve terrific sons and daughters in law. the politics in the future. it is a tough road. we are going to have a ouh road with the media. if you're not willing to deal with that, don't get into the race. you know that, i understood it, i n't have hard feelings. i think it is harder on my sons and daughter in law and my wife to watch their dad than it is for me. i watch my dad and, you know, it was harder on me than it was n him when i watched him in his campaign. that is dissuades going to be.

neil: governor, it is a pleasure. thanyou very much, sir. >> thank you, it is good t be with you today. neil: all rght, would have, shou have, couldhave. withll of these scandals, nothing is getting done. and that will be harmful for this country whether republican or democrat i love to eat. i love hanging out with my friends.

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it was really more about po andpolitics. >> what happened? >> i goup on the stage and interviewed at john hickenlooper who ishe govnor of colorado and the two of us got along great. they talked about accountability, merit pay, tenure. things that you would not have thought about a republican speaking. we did address sues. but i think w he made some progress. ne: you and i have chatted out th before. one of the things i always aired about your career is how

you did try to find a middle ground. we have always said hat onee side can't get all he orhe wants. but that is the mood right now. senator with these scandals developing, the enormous distractions, it is not as f washinon can go ahead a multitask here. all an all problems, noththing is going to get done. >> it es worry m we have a system that is dysfunctional with very little ggtting done. there's only so much attentn to go around. thy run the risk of suing all the oxygen out of the room and further our chance toaddress the things thamitt romney talked about andhat is how do we create this.

>>t does concern me th this would distract further from focusing on the busiss at hand neil: harry reid said that we are making a big deaout of nothing. >> okay, with no one is reading your e-mails, no one is listening to your phone calls unle they get a judicial order a sometime. what they are doing is keeping a record of all of that. so let's see say that clarkalso someone and were able to follow follow-up to try to entify the ente network.

so then we have to have that data so we can follow-up with them. but no one is listening in or following the e-mail of the ordinary americans. >> why did you have so many phone calls to dunkin' donuts, but that was another thing. asking you something that the governor talked about. without getting into who is to blame for this arious scandal and invasions. i am paraphrasing here. it gets so big that this kind of stuff again, i am simplifying here, it is inevitable you agree that? >> agree that 100%. like when you run a company. core beliefs as the ceo trickle-down through the system. we have government that is so big that you cannot run it directly.

the government should be good. president obama gave a speech at ohio state and pennstate. right before all these scandals. it is that idea that government is good and big and big government is good in akind of trickles down and empowers people in the bureaucracy to do things they really shouldn't be doing. i think the irs scandal, in my opinion, is the worst of all of them and that really epitomizes what happens when the government isut of control. >> i wonder whether that will be the scandal with the issue that sonates. so many people see this thing growg as an intrusion and coming to lit almost ery her day. what do you think? >> i think it is the biggest issue. mitt romney was right to identify ts as well. becauseveryone hato deal with the irs. they are getting out of the way in doing things they shouldn't be doing, what else are they

doing? the role that th will be playing in health hlth h care law,hat has to be concerning. so this is the biggest fall of the different scandals. one other thing, if the mit mn who appeared on your station had beenthe mitt romney running for president, i thought he was incredibly gracious and he was very good. i thought he did really well. >> you gave him every chance he one you know, gave im eve opportunity to give him the petty sml person that i am, and he didn't take t bait. you gentlemen, you are an example of this envionment which means you will never have a future in washington. [applause] the magdlen, thank youvery much. >> thank you, neil. it is good to see you, senator. >> so how is it posible tht

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neil: apparently even pottery company said that they really didn't know that they were geing spied on. the national security county officials under clinton and george w. bush. lee is 20 w. that is what worries me the most. if mark zuckerberg is posting that he wasunaware of this and it was happeng, then shouldn't that be concerning? >> it is complex in. i have no problem with the u.s. governnt analyzing e-mails and protocol, telephone calls between people in yemen and afghanistan. i'm actually supportive of that. what is a bit unusual is the extent to which the ch companies in the unitestates knew about this government activity. neil: if thedidn't know that, if they are clueless, the

governnt seems to have gotten far more than these guys were aware of. >> there is an issue with. >> inoter words there is technical information about how they ollected this. >> internet ike a highway system and there is a poibility that the government was watching what was happeng on the highway. if the government was watching what was happening, that possibly there was a tech company that would not he known about that. neil: would say ttat unbeknownst to them at some point the government went ahead and got the information they wanted and came back and asked for it. if that were the case. >> is happening outside the united states and directing citizens, i don't think that any non-us nationals have any expectations. >> these are the vehicles the

united stes for which it as done. >> we don't know enough to say that. >> but if it were? >> there is an issue about the government accessing the property and the servers of u.s. technology companies in the unit states. i personally like to know more about that. but this is a perect understanding. >> that is going on abroad and the government is doing that but they are still doing it in this way and the entities don't know anything about it, they have ne ahea and just raided the house. it dependsn how this is beng done.

>> i'm happy they are helping out. >> when they are happy about it, they take an inch in t mile at the same time. >> you know, we all have to be talking boutprivacy and protting our national security. >> that is the intention of these -security. >> that is the intenti f these programs are it that is true. when we come back, is part of it is just a response to the governme. we will have that comi

neil: this may be nothing more th the government getting out of control and a few bad eggs would he think of th, let's? >> she touched on the centr sphere. e irs people w worked under reagan. many will say thaa this isn't a problem. watch out what they are doing it to you. because that is so with easy. we are in a whole new wor and th is what i think struck a

chord. neil: in case of this, you are a well-known respected liberal >> maybe there is something to it. it is too big for even you. >> no doubt we would have had we have those results with president obama. >> aren't you going to want to do this as well to track this down? >> absolutely he would. >> i just find it jane marks -- and i o think liberals were

compining oday abo republicans going oerreach. >> obviously thiis someing that has been there. the irs has a hundred thousand employees. there are a lot of good employees. >> it is the quaty of the town and people managing this.

>> here it is, mr. axelrod. obama said the same thing. the government is too big. that is the same complaints that the tea rty has been maing >> when i see the dismissal of this, i have to say wait a second, when you talk to people who ran the irs and they say watch t if y are not on the same team, they have seen it happen, it is so still busy to run a big governnt and feel powerful at that. >> i was just going to say the peop running the irs, per se. it is quality people. government is going toto contine to grow. the economyrows, the population grows.

>> and is o of the things that i have. if we know part of this growing problem is the birth, then wouldn't you think twi about signing this to the irs when it comes to health care? >> potentially. >> you know, i think that people are bleeding their fearnto their fear of government spying from the corporate spyng. >> exactly. for me personally, i am more coerned with consumer privacy with the iris. >> google, gmail, you do a arch on any medical disea. when you apply for health insurance than they assume that

you have this with a prr-existing condition. >> the company can't find you for this. th an't basically, you know, some people after you who are giving you a hard tme. i hear what you ar saying. neil: should the govenment be worried about liz macdonald? 's. [lghter] we have already seen cases where the irs takes over health care. >> i am not afraid. i wanttyou to know that i do think that there are qualit people.

>> the irs doesn't want to be a

♪ ♪ >> imus: a message, and gutless weasels over the years. they want to be on the program to promote his book, but i didn't know at the time he was badmouthing roger ailes. you know what he