>> that is incredible. >> alisyn: after the show' show with more. ♪ ♪ with support for the president's healthcare law sliding, the president starts flaming. >> may be shifting more cost through higher premiums. or higher deductibles. or higher co-pays. so folks could be feeling increased cost not for the fordable ca act but it's passed on to workers. >> brenda: they are slamming back at the president saying the president's law is driving prices. at a time when the economy desperately needs jobs to come back, is this any time for the president to be picking this

fight? i'm brenda buttner. we have our panel -- welcome to everybody. john layfield, theresident putting the blame on employers. what say you? >> i say this is typical of politicians this has gone on since andrew jackson and fdr. they find the business owner to blame. easiest thing in the world. you pass a law that is unfavorable. then you come in, they realize hey ,this is going to be free. it's not free. it will cost all of you. business owners saying if we have to pay extra $5,000 per employee, if we have 30 employees, $150,000 is all we make per restaurant that we have. they cannot afford it. what does the president do? he turns and blames the small business own they're creates 50% of the job. insane but typic polits >> brenda: >> gary:y: bgary b., is itthe be healthcare law?

>> the latter. i scratch my head onhis. okay. the reason you are feeling the pinch is because the bad employers, the only ones we have out there creating jobs are passing the cost. where does he think the cost would go? they'd vanish? there is no extra cost to obamacare. the cbo said the affordae care act will cost the country 800,000 jobs. that was the original estimat estimate. we expect to cost more jobs. loss of the job kick in as tem ployiers have the first goalpost if you will this coming january. this will hurt the economy. >> brenda: meredith, shouldn't they lift up the job creators? the recover is tepid. instead of beating them up?

>> this is unfortunate. the costs going up are the es passed on to the employees as far as the obama articulated. you think he would have a concession for the small businesses. taxredit to mitigate the rising cost of obamacare. but effectively, costs are just rising. businesses are expected to eat it. until we have forced rule here. that is not going to -- it doesn't fly with businesses. >> brenda: toby, you are a small business owner. what do you say? >> i i follow everything the president told us. i didn't build the business. healthcare cost going up is my fault? if you want to inspire human beings to take the ris put your money, your brain, your time, your home on the line, that is the way to inspire people.

this is more than shaking my head. he doesn't get this. if you pass this law, what se do i do? i absorb the cost? c'mon! >> brenda: jonas, do business owners deserve a blame in this? they are giving a tax deduction. if you give them more insurance -- >> you have to make money to pay taxes. this is bter healthce tn most people have. it costs more on some issue -- >> i take wish that. >> more people have insurance than who had it before. the ample quality is higher. some see trimdown of the uality but most see italyal thing, kicking off the preexiting as more coverage. so people pay more, the employers pay more. taxpayers will pay more. that is how it will be shared. everyone is going to pay this additional cost.

have we seen the examples? >> that is the point of the discussion. we saw job figures out this week. they were okay. not great. like the ones for the last few months. retailers and restaurants were hiring the most. the gornment hired the least. that flies in wh we talk about here. the governmentt workers already get healthcare. they are on the union. the retailers have low coverage. why are they hiring more? the face of the regulation? >> brenda: john, take him on. >>hey make plenty of money. >> of cour they do. that is w why they pay for free pizza for everybody. you have a business that is broken. a business that is full of fraud. where the owners are stealing from the clients. do you fix it or fix 30 more people going to business and

think my god, it will fix the business. that's what we did to healthcare. we have major hlthcare problems. we did not reform it. we added 30 to 50 million more people to a brokebe system. all it can do is exaceate this. that is what is happening and what costs business money. >> this will hurt the economy and hurt the job market you think? >> i think the economy is strong. this i hard to imagine it will impale the economy. but it's stagnate part of the economy. makes it hard for everybody trying to do the best they can. make the margin. margins are squeezed in the first place. businesses have to make money. right? they don't get any hand-outs. theore your take the less they work with. >> free pizza for everybody. free pizza and beer. [ lauger ] >> that is how you get elec

elected. as a student body preside. in college no doubt. >> the other thing, i want to go back. whattone was saying. about eating that. say thattone was magnanimous and he ate the costs. in obama's mind he thinks they vanished. tone has to eat the cos and he has less retained earnings the next year he can either then not grow grow the siness, not expand orot hire. the costs don't go away away. they effect the economy in negative way. i know my premiums will go up next year 50%. >> you are probably not one of the people getting better healthcare. there are people wh no healthcare. >> we have 30 millionpeople

uncovered. act opposite of what they said would happen with obamacare. >> i'm not defending, just telling you how it work. that is the w we had it before it happened. >> if we had a system employers didn't pay for insurance at all and then they added this plan, yea it would destroy the job market. but we have had it for decades. int's marginal at this point, which why to my opponent you see restaura people hiring employees, even though they are going to be the one take on the brunt of this, to add the uninsured pem to the roles. >> brenda: public trust in white house is coming down. neil breaks it down at the bottom of the hour. but up here, first, not just the reporter e-mail. now we learn got officials are going through web mail and

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[ le announcer ] one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. back to bulls and bears. i'm jamie colby. >> brenda: foet the justice department monitor reporter e-ma. they are tapping directly in the servers of the top internet mpany. to gain access to e-mail account overseas. this is as we hear the top white house officials.

using sack ret e-mail account to conduct government business. >> we shld have a segment entitled they don't get it. if you conduct business with a secret e-mail count you would be fired. why? there is no audit trail. say i wrk for the defense department and i had a secret e-mail account where i was selling secrets to north koreans. guess what, i couldn't be caught. i go to the local starbucks and sign on. there is no audit trail. that is the problem with this. you can't find out who the wrong-doers are and when they are doing wrong things. this is unacceptable. >> brenda: the white house ess secretary michael carneajay carneysaying having th profile officials makes imminentense if they are inundated in one account with

the public e-mail or spam or the like. they continue to use the other account for normal work. to beby? >> look. in a t lick company, whether you are inundated with spam or other things you have to keep two year of e-mail. for security and compliance. other risk. why is it a public company is under the constraint but if i'm right in the obama administration, i have a private account. it's hypocrisy at it worse. >> you say this is equivalent of closed door meeting? >> of course he does. >> i don't kn how big corporation toby works in, but if i send bill gates at microsoft an e-mail he won't get it. he has eig addresses, some of which are only known by steve ballmer and top executives.

they can't have one e-mail to thousand of employees. >> brenda: but this is got officials. >> they work for us. >> but i think the present haseveral e-mails. he can newspaper kate on his blackberry. >> they'rsecret. >> first, we don't know if they're all secret. they can audit all the-mi e-mails. you don't think they se an e-mail from yahoo once in a while? >> but that is different, isn't it? yes, that is different. >> how? >> this is the freaking government. this is illegal to do this stuff. this isn't about your private e-mail on yahoo or g-mail. this is aecret e-mail. the guys understand, fast an furious comes out and the president says the first time iaw this was in the newspaper. tax deal comes out. targeting group. they know this government is

more crooked thanroller derby now. of course they are hiding e-mails. who can trust the guys? they can't trust themselves? >> brenda: roller derby is as straight as -- [ laughter ] >> i would have been champion of roller deerby. >>renda: most corporations don't allow you to access hoo, g-mail on the corporate, on the corporate hour or the corporate server but they have to protect their house. so everything is audited. every business does this. not only auditing but reviewed by regulators. nothing should be sacrosan as separate. it's not funny not for national security. anything beyond that seems like special treatment. >> what is the cost of this for us the taxpayers? >> there ar many costs. you have cost i pointed out. national security is one.

toby pointed out the cost of compliance. if someone negotiates through the secret e-mail, a deal to say listen, defense contractor bid this price. you didn't hear it through me. you heard it there secret e-mail account. you come and you have all of that shenanigans going on we can't track. this is the problem. it could be trillions in cost. >> toby? >> this has to be uer a system, that is audible and transparent. that is the, i. if it's not transparent. good word shenanigans. there is so much we don't know and that is the scary part. >> brenda: last word. thank you, guys. you probly heard about line dcers at the i.r.s. junct.

>> brenda: while everyone is focusing on wasteful spending athe i.r.s. andthe lavish junct, should they focus on the e.p.a. and thearehouses? one e.p.a. contractor setting up a man cave in one with tvs, work-out euipment and pinup posters. got to go to john. >>y man kay would look better than that. i would have a sports channel least! >> brenda: we're paying for it. >> nothing worse than nonrhythmic people dancing except for when taxpayers pay

for it. the e.p.a. is an abomination in this country. they have stalled politically the fracking regulations. hey us as a weapon. they are a waste of the taxpxpayers money. this shows how bad they e a waste of money. >> brenda: meredith? >> i compare it to corporate america where there is zero fun in corporate america. you have nothing like this. corporation are cutting back on the meal they serve at the invesor presentations. >>o! >> box lunch or whatnot. thereis nooondoggle, nothing. the factt's going on in the governmt is a thumb to the nose of corporate america that's gotp more productive post credit crisis. >> brenda: but didn't this work? they found this out.

>> this worked. inspeckor general. they found it. contractor, people we hire. theyired them? there is amazing example of waste in the government. this one case, maybe this is the only case. the system work. >> you want to praise the government here, toby? >> i'm not praising the governmentism said they actually got something right. >> brenda: jonas, what do you think? >> what does the man cave cost to make? that is a two-television set. [ laughter ] on crai craigslist for $5. >> brenda: they are not working, though. >> that is a sepate issue. they might shirking the management oversight, which is the problem of government, it's not managed properly. that is insignificant. let's not talk about the taxpayers dollars. it sounds like they caught it. it wasn't a secre e-mail thing. hay busted them. there you go.

>> brenda: we agree on this. so go ahead. take it on. >> it wasn't two rca tvs sitting there. they had unopened inventory, piles of it. rats running around. con, jonas. like two guys smoking a cigar, watching espn. it wasn't like that. they fund this. only at the e.p.a. are they goofing up. no. multiply this by $100,000 across every cock-a-mamie agency around. the government spends 1.3 trillion in the agey they have. so multiply this instance by what? that is how muchaste and fraud you have. coup guys goofing off. you think jack welsh had a man ca at g.e. quarterbacks? i don't think so.

>> no but a 4,000 square foot office. >> brenda: that's enough. thanks, guys. up next. >> you like that? wuah! you just tune us out. >>renda: o restaurant owner bapping kids to avoid scenes like that. someone here says he just clod you the thought that

>> brenda: predictions. gary take it away. >> you newhat isot? data mining. a lot of people don't like it but it's hot right now. i think it will helpicro strategy, mstr. >> benda: jonas? bull or bear? >> bear. >>renda: john, your prediction. >> amazon testing delivery grocery is game changer. up 25% in a year. >> brenda: meredith? >> i love you when is the last time you went grocery shoping? >> ohhh! brenda: meredith, your prediction. >> mybig theme is that the corridor will rule the country. the rate of growth of credit card spending is 30% faster. discover up15%. >> i'm a bear i think it has gone too far, too fast. >> brenda: jonas? >> citibank, citigroup back on top. i tell you, people don't like the banks taking over new york city. some people hate them. i tell you something it's great publicity. >> brenda: gary, bull or bear?

>> i'm bullish on it. when it drops 40. >> brenda: toby? >> yum love kids. >> brenda: john bull or bear? >> i'm going grocery shopping. bear! ] >> brenda: neil take it away. ♪ >> neil: do you ever wonder who can you trust? for more americans it ain't the white house. hi, everyone. i'm ne cavuto. watch your back. the government could be watching yu. here, there, everywhere. reports that it's monitoring million of verizon customers in america. getting host of internet companies together online information overseas. a poll shows half of americans don't think the president is being truthful with the country on the i.r.s. scandal. even the "new york times," writing this about the sndal. thiss updated a little bit. the administration has now lost all credibility