>> that is incredible. >> alisyn: after the show' show with more. ♪ ♪ with support for t president's healthcare law sliding, the president starts flaming. >> may be shifting mo cost through higher premiums. or higher deductibles. or higher co-pays. so folks could be feeling increased cost not for the fordable care act but it's passed on to workers. >> brenda: they are slamming back at the president saying the president's law is driving up prices. at a time when the economy desperately needs jobs to come back, is this any time for the president to be picking this

fight? i'm brenda buttner. have our panel -- wecome to everybody. john layfield, the president putting the blame on employers. what say you? >> i say this is typical of politicians. this has gone on since andrew jackson and fdr. they find the business owner to blame. easiest thing in the world. you pass a law that is unfavorable. then you come in, they realize hey ,this is going to be free. it's not free. it will cost all of you. usiness owners saying if we have to pay extra $5,000 per employee, if we have 30 employees, $150,000 is all we make per restaurant that we have. they cannot afford it. what does the president do? he turns and blames the small business own there creates 50% of the job insane but typical politics. >> brenda: >> gary: bgary b., is itthe buse healthcare law?

>> the latter. i scratch my head on this. okay. the reason you are feeling the pinch is because the bad employers, the only ones we have out there cating jobs are passing the cost. where does he think the cost would go? they'd vanish? there is no extra cost to obamacare. the cbo said the affordable care act will cost thecountry 800,000 jobs. that was the original estimata e estimae. we expect to cost more jobs. loss of the job kick in as tem ployiers have the first goalpost if you will this coming january. this will hurt the economy. >> brenda: meredith, shouldn't they lift up the job creators? the rever is tepid. instea of beating them up?

>> this is unfortunate. the costs going up are the ones passed on to the employees as far as the obama arculated. you think he would have a concession for the small businesses. tax credit to mitigate the rising cost of obamacare. but efftively, sts are just rising. businesses a pected to eat it. until we have forced rule here. tha is not going to -- it doesn'tfly wh businesses. >> brenda: ty, youre a small business owner. what do you say? >> if i follow everything the president told us. i didn't build the business. healthcare cost goingup is my fault? if y want tonspire human beings to take the risk, put your money, your brain, your time, your home on the line, that i the way to inspire pele.

this is more than shaking my head. he doesn't get this. if you pass th law, what else do i do? i absorb the cost? c'mon! >> brenda: jonas, do business owners deserve any blame in this? they are giving a tax deduction. if you give them more insurance -- >> you have to make money to pay taxes. this is better healthcare than most people have. itosts more on some issue -- >> i take wishthat. >> more people have insurance than who had it before. the ample quality iss higher. some see trimdown of the quality butost see italyal thing, kicking off t preexisting as more coverage. so people pay more, the employers pay more. taxpayers will pay more. that is how it wi be shared. eryone is goi to pay this additional cost.

have we seen the examples? >> that is the point of the discussion. we saw job figures out this ek. they were okay. not great. like the ones for the last few months. retailers and restaurants were hiring the most. the government hired the least. that flies in what we talk about here. the government workers already get healthcare. they are on the union. the retailers have low coverage. why are they hiring more? the face of the regulation? >> brenda: john, take him on. >> they make plenty of money. >> of course they do. th is why they pay for free pizza for everybody. you ve business that is broken. a busines that is full of fraud. where the owners are stealing om the clients. do you fix it or x 30 more

peop going to business and think my go it will fix the business. that's what we did to healthcare. we have major healthcare problems. we did noteform it. we added 30lion more people to a brokebe system. all it can do is exacerbate this. that is what is happening and what costsusiness money. >> thi will hurt the economy and hurt the job market you think? >> i think the economy is strong. this is hard to imagine it will impale the economy. but it's stagnate part of the economy. it makes it hard for everybody trying to do the best they can. make the margin. margins are squeezed in the first place. businesses have to make money. right? they don't get any hand-outs. the more your take the less they work with. >> free pizza for everybody. free pizza and beer. [ laughter ] >> that is how you get elec

elected. >> tt was john's platform as a student body president. in college no doubt. >> thether thing, i want to go back. whattone was saying. about eating that. say thattone was magnanimous and he at the costs. in obama's mind hehinks they vanished. tone has to eat the cost and he has less retained rnings the next year he can either then not grow grow t business, not expand or not hire. the costs don't go away away. they effect the economy in a negative way. i know my premiums will go up next year 50%. >> you are probably not one of the people getting better healthcare. there are people with no healthcare. >> we have 30 million people

uncovered. exact opposite of what they said would happen with obacare. >> i'm n dendi, just telling you how it work. that ishe way we had it before it happened. >> if we had a system employers didn't pay for insurance at all and then they added this plan, yeah, it would destroy the job market. but we have had it for decades. int's marginal at this point, which is why to my opponent you see restaurant people hiring employees, even though they are going to be the one take on the brunt of this, to add the uninsured pem to the roles. >> brenda: public trust in white house is coming down. neil breaks it down at the bottom of the hour. but up here,irst, not just th reporter e-mail. now we learn got officials are going through web mail and

keeping secret e-mail account of their own. someone else says sound the the boys used double miles from their capital one venture card to fly home for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mother! traveling is easy with the venture card because you can fly airline anytime. two words. double miles! this guy c a. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys! and with double miles you can actuay use, y never misthe fun. beard growing conte and go!

♪ win! what's in your wallet?

back to bulls and bears. i'm jamie colby. >> brenda: forget the justice department monitor reporte e-mail. they are tapping directly in the servers of the top internet company. to gain access to e-mail account overseas. this is as we hear the top white house officials.

using sack ret e-mail account to conduct government business. >>we should have a segment entitled they don't get it. if you conduct business with a secre e-mail account you would be fired. why? there is no audit trail. say i work for the defense department and i had a secret e-mail account where i was selling secrets to north koreans. guess what, i couldn't be caught. i go to the local starbucks and sign on. there is no audit trail. that is the problem with this. you can't find out who the wrong-doers are and when they are doing wrong things. this is unacceptable. >> brenda: the white hou press secretary michael carneajay carneysaying having th profile officials makes imminent sense if they are inundated in o account with

the public e-mail or spam or the like. they continue to use the other account for normal work. to beby? >> look. in a tub lick company, whether you are inundated with spam or other things you have toeep two year of e-mail. for security and compliance. other risk. why is it a public company is under the constraint but if i'm right in the obama administration, i have a private account. it's hypocrisy at it worse. >> you say this is equivalent of closed door meeting? >> of course he does. >> i don't know how big corporation toby works in, but if i send bill gates at microsoft an e-mail he won't get it. he has ght addresses, some of which are oly known by steve ballmer andop

executives. they can't have one e-mail to thousand of employees. >> brenda: but this is got officials. >> they work for us. >> but i think the president has several e-mails. he can newaper kate on his blkberry. >> they're secret. >> first, we don't know if they' all secret. they can audit all the e-mai e-mails. you don't think they send an e-mail from yahoo once in a while? >> but that is different, n't it? >> yes, that is different. >> how? >> this is the freaking government. this is illegal to doo this stuff. this isn't about your private e-mail on yah or g-mail. this is aecret e-mail. these guys understand, fast anurious comes out and the president says the first te i saw this was in the newspaper. tax deal comes out. targeting group. they know this government is

more crooked than roller derby now. of course they are hiding e-mails. who c can trust the guy they can't trust themselves? >> brenda: roller derby is as straight as -- [ laughter ] >> i would have been champion of roller deerby. >> brenda: most rporations don't allow you to access yahoo, g-mail on the corporate, on the corporate hour or the corporate server but they have to protect their house. so everything is audited. every business does this. not onlyauditing but reviewed by regulators. nothing should be sacrosanct as separate. it's not funny not fo national security. anything beyond that seems like special treatment. >> what is the cost of this for ushe taxpayers? >> there are many costs. you have cost i pointed out.

national security is one. toby pointed out the cost of compliance. if someone negotiates through the secret e-mail, a deal to say listen, defense contractor bid this price. you didn't hear it through me. you heard it there secret e-mail account. you come and you have all of that shenanigans going on we can't track. this is the problem. it could be trillions in cost. >> toby? >> this has to be under a system, that is audible and transparent. that is the, i if it's not transparent. good word shenanigans. there is so much we don't know and that is the scary part. >> brenda: last word. thank you, guys. you probably heard about line dancers at the i.r.s. junct. we went out and asked people a simp questn:

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brenda: while everyone is focusng on wasteful spending at the i.r.s. and the lavish junct, should they focus on the e.p.a. and the warehouses? one e.p.a. contractor setting up a man cave in one with tvs, work-out equipmt and pinup sters. got to go to john. >> my man kay would look better than that. i would have a sports channel at least! >> brenda: we're paying for it. >> nothinworse than nonrhythmic people dancing

except for when taxpayers pay for it. the e.p.a. is an abomination in this country. they have stalled politically the fracking regulations. they used as a weap. they are a waste of the taxpayers money. this shows how bad they are a waste of money. >> brenda: meredith? >> i compare it to corporate america where there is zero fun in corporate america. you have nothing like this. corporation are cutting back on the meal they serve at the invor presentations. >> no! >> box lunch or whatnot. there is no boondoggle, nothing. the fact it going on in the government is a thumb to the nose of corporate america that's gotp more productive post credit crisis. >> brenda: but didn't ts work? they found this out.

>> this worked. inspeckor general. they found it. ntractor, people we hire. they fired them? there is amazing example of waste in the government. this one case, maybe this is the only case. the system worked. >> yant to praise the government here, toby? >> i'm not praisg the governmentism said they actuallyy got something right. > brenda: jonas, what do you think? >> what does the man ve cost to make? that is a two-television set. [ laughter ] on crai craigslist for $5. >> brenda: they are not working, though. >> that is a separate issue. they might shirking the management oversight, which is the problem of governmen it's not managed properly. tt is insignificant. let's not talk about the taxpayers dollars. it sounds like they caught it. it wasn't a secret e-mail thing. hay busted them. there you go.

>> brenda: we agree on this. so go ahead. take it on. >it wasn' two a tvs sitting there. they had unopen inventory, piles of it. rats running around. c'mon, jonas. like tw guys smoking a cigar, watching espn. it wasn't like that. they found this. only athe e.p.a. are they goofing up. no. multiply this by $100,000 across every cock-a-mamie agency around. the government spends $1.3 trillion in the agency they have. so multiply this instance by what? that is how much waste and fraud you have. couple guys gfing off. you think jack welsh had a man cave at g.e. quarterbacks? i don't think so.

>> no but a 4,000 square foot office. >> brenda:that's enough. thanks, guys. up next. >> you like that? wuah! you just tune us out. >> brenda: one restaurant owner bapping kids to avoid scenes like that. someone here says he just clod you the thought that

>> brenda: predictions. gary take it away. >> you neat is hot? data mining. a lot of people don't like it but it's hot right now. i think it will help micro strategy, mstr. >> brenda: jonas? bull or bear? >> bea >> brenda: john, your prediction. >> amazon testing delivery grocery is game changer. up 25% in a year. >> brenda: mereth? >> i love you when is the last time you went grocery shopping? >> ohhh! >> brenda: meredith, your prediction. >> my big theme is that the coidor will rule the country. the rate of growth of credit card spending is 30% faster. discove up 15%. >> i'm a bear. i think it has gone too far, too fast. >> brenda: jonas? >> citibank, citigroup back on top. i tell you, peole don't like the banks taking over new york ciy. some people hate them. i tell you something it's great publicity. >> brenda: gary bull or

bear? >> i'm bullh on it. when it drops 40. >> brenda: toby? >> yum love kids. >> brenda: john bull or bear? >> i'm going grocery shopping. bea ] >> brenda: neil take it away. ♪ >> neil: do you ever wonder who can you trust? for more americans it ain't the white house. hi, everyone. i'm neilavuto. watch your back. the government could be watching you. here, there, everywhere. reports that it's monitoring million of verizon customers in america. getting host of internet companies together online information overseas. a poll shows half of americans don't think the president is being truthful with the country on the i.r.s. scandal. even the "new york times," writing this about the scandal. this is updated a little bit. the administration has n lost all credibilityn