>> i'm bullh on it. when it drops 40. >> brenda: toby? >> yum love kids. >> brenda: john bull or bear? >> i'm going grocery shopping. bea ] >> brenda: neil take it away. ♪ >> neil: do you ever wonder who can you trust? for more americans it ain't the white house. hi, everyone. i'm neilavuto. watch your back. the government could be watching you. here, there, everywhere. reports that it's monitoring million of verizon customers in america. getting host of internet companies together online information overseas. a poll shows half of americans don't think the president is being truthful with the country on the i.r.s. scandal. even the "new york times," writing this about the scandal. this is updated a little bit. the administration has n lost all credibility on this

issue. that is a big deal. if perception is reality, is the administration in real trouble? daigen mcdowell and julie up stephen. charles payne. >> when the "new york times" says president obama lost all credibility -- >> on this issue. that's how it was in the original draft. >> on this issue. >> he is great on the economy. the headline is the headline. this whole thing about whether it's the patriot act. it's the patriot act on steroids. the internet companies, you know, people have to feel like they have nothing, nothing. the president talked aut when he is not president, he wants to protect his privacy. that is why he care about this now. ve me a break. that is la. are you kidding me? >> nl: i'm sure he does. >> we will fix it in ree years? you'r snooping through everytng from what i ceremony onon goggle and what i

say on a teleone. >> neil: very defensive. something is worrying you. what do you make ofthis? >> i don't have a problem with the national security agency program at all. i don't have expectations of privacy. i freely am -- i will stel up for a patdown at the airport. i find that a bigger invasion of privacy. >> neil: so do i, but i'm lonely. >> the issue is here, what they are doing -- >> neil: you are used to it and this is nothing new. what does that say? >> we live in a police state. wewe hav after 9/11 increasingly. i don't think is purely president obama's issue. i am with daigen. everything i'm doing is monitored. >> neil: you can count on that. >> what is interestin is that the alleged civil libertarians that would go nuts if geoge bush did this or this happened

inthe bush administration, we need -- these are grave national security issues. there is a hypocrisy. >> that is an excellent poin saturday obama against the intrusion that president bush made to allow the stuff we are seeing going o n. but on steroids. it just seems weird. >> there is a big difference. under the bush administration they didn't get court orders. under the obama administration they are getting a court der for the surveillae. >> there is a big diffence. >> there is a big difference. >> whether you have judicial supervion. i'm with daigen. i don't think tis is a big scandal. you areot talk about the government eavesdropping on the conversation. >> neil: how do you know? we discoved that is indeed what happened and that getti the records was -- >> that is -- >> that is not what we know. >> that's what we know so far.

>> neil: we didn't know this a few day ago, julian. >> if you let me answer will try to explain. >> neil: go ahead. >> what we know the program allows the government to get me the data, the toll records. originating and terminating phone numbers to try to prevent another 9/11 attack. the other case, the government is following the law in every instance. up in of the complaints made begin to allege that the both is doing anything other that following the law. >> were you for the patriot act? >> yes. >> you were. okay. you're consistent. >> this mystifies me. before you came on i watched president obama talk and say there is no problem. nobody phone's are listened to. if nobody's phones are listened to, then what is the point? what is going on if they are not listening. what is the point. >> there is an easy answer to tha

there is an easy answer to that. >> julian, you are fgetting th is the first step to get the probably cause to listen to your phone. that is theay the f.b.i. work. they get -- >> so why don't we point out that the court orderses are never -- >> [ overlk ] >> the position that the publicans have taken. if you have us a spected terrorist inemen, speaking to somebody inside the united states, i want to know the phone number of that person. i wab the court to authorize this -- >> this is not what the president sai what we're talking about here is preventing another 9/11 attack. >> that's what george bush said before -- >> neil: all right. >> we are combining even. here is what i think. maybe you can help me with this. fact of the matter is this is not an isolated incident.

collecting phone records on millions of americans is one thing. saying you are going after conservative groups and then it's more than a few. then a lot more than just groups. it's individuals. exanding this to go after fox. there is a steady, systemic pattern of invading people's privacy to use the full weight and power of the united states government to be a pain. >> there is arrogance. the notion that this is monitoring phone calls from here to yemen, 170 million customers are calling yemen? c'mon. if you want to cross reference after the boston terror event, and you a getting the information for verizon to cross check and cross ference anyone that might have been with him and his brother -- >> i'm with you. now you have the documents.

>> i'm with you. onll of that. that is how you typically gather the information. >> there is contempt and arrogae at play that dismisses the reference to president press conference. dismisses the concerns. >> this is a creep. it goes forward and forward. you have to be crazy not to think they aren't monitoring the phone calls of average americans, people that are probably in the tea party. theyelieve are right -- >> neil: we dot know that. to julian's point we don't know that. >> if they are going to go for a court order for james rosen's e-mail account, and his father e-mail account, they will get court orders f people to listen to the telephone calls. >> can i say? i have been sitting here quietly, which i usually don't do. the n.s.a. program, if this had come out by itself,

don't think -- >> neil: exactly. that's exactly right. >> but do we trust e oba administration and the white house to protect us and the information that the n.s.a. is getting with what hpens with t i.r.s. and with what has happened with the criminalizing investigate i reporting and not protecting the first amendment in this country? people are in doubt. >> neil: the creepiness -- i guess what i'm asking is what part of custer don't you undetand here? you are rrounded and you see o ips dept after another that comes up. it comes to the same issue. privacy invad or potentially inded. doing the same thing. there is a pattern. >> if you want to conflate and combine the issues and make the general stements yo can do that. i don't think it's a

thoughtful way to approach it. >> neil: think about what i said. >> i do connect the dots. i don't connect the dots. >> neil: julian, i'melling you. drop the liberal thing and focus on the reality thing. you have one entity going after americanpeople. department after another doing the same thing. you can call that conflating. p i am telling you there is pattern. i could as easily -- >> neil: i guarantee you if it were george bush doing it you would be all over it. >> th is wrong. that is incorrect. that is -- >> face it. >> go ahead. >> you want me to respond? look, you can't conflate all the issues. you t have to speak about them differently. the case of the i.r.s., targeting is wrong. no connection to the white house. >> he would make aousy reporter. >> there was no -- no one was criminal sizing the investigative reporting. nobody in the justice department spoke about prosecuting rosen. that was a method to get

subpoena -- >> that is not targeting him. >> neil: i'm not going to get anywhere arguing th point. julian -- [ overtalk ] >> i want to talk facts and you want to make general broside. >> neil: you are saying nothing and it's offensive. >> neil, speak about it specifically. let's debate the issue. >> neil: why don't you talk back? it's annoying how obnoxious you can be reality. i'm not going to play this game with you, julian. you played the same ga dismissing one -- [over talk ] >> obama hater. you're playing obama hater and not backing it up with facts. >> neil: i want t be clear on this. cut his damn mickism want to be clear to you. ben, is this pattern of behavior you see here, i want toeep litics out of it. i want to keep the nuances out of it. i want to just address a pattern ofehavior youave seen, that does or does not worry you. does it? >> it worries me terribly. charlie gasp abrino g it right. it's a police state situation. getting worse and worse all

the time. the fact that mr. obama campaigned agains it is really extremely unformnate. now he is defendi it. i think, i say thedea that over00 million phone calls are beingmade to terrorist groups in yemen are all over the middle east is comical. of course they are listening to the phone conversations. >> they are not listening to the phone conversation. >> how do you know, julian? >> neil: i'm toing to get in a he saidheaid thing that is nonsensical stupid point. i'm not going to do it. sorry if a lotf you at home areffended by this and clicking the challenge. we are too knee-deep in this we are too knee-deep in this nonsense this week to be so at od,

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you requested backup? yes. yes i did. what's in your wallet? send you back to "cavuto on business >> neil: all right, this is going to have you at a loss. literally. the government selling 30 million more shares of bailed-out general motors continue to pull away from the to rimmal $15 billion investment, which would be our investmt. taxpayers, that would be us, stil expected to lose $10 billion on that investment. >> you are not surprised, you expect it. but a huge deal. $10 billion is a l. i think we went about this the wrong way. free markets could have handled this. they should ha gone bankrupt. it was designed to save the unions or to benefit unions. we paid a big price for it i think as miles pe miles per ame. >> ironithat bailed-out bank underwrite bailed-out company ipo or the secondary offering

is the best way to put it. ed whitaker, the former ceo put i best. he said they should have drop it all at once. they could hesold out all at once and whitaker's point if they did it the first time, because there was so much demand they could have sold at a profit. tim geithner the treasury sretary wouldot do it all at once. >> neil: a lot of folks on main street say we are too focused on the wall street side and jobs were saved and company was savedded. that is far more lucrative gain in the long run than any stock performance. what do you think of that? >> i was in favor of bail-out. i think u are in a tricky situation of trying to sometime a stock sale. at this point, everybody wants and probably the people at g.m. want the govnment out of the company as well. you got to eat the loss. especially though g.m. is doing extremely well. high sales last moh.

>> i love the fact they rescued g.m. g.m. is american institution. what is good for america is good for general motors or maybe it was vice versa. i love they saved it and saved the job. i doesn't bother me they are the union jobs. $10 billion is a small price to payor saving company of that magnitude. >> we are presupposing this is the only way to save them. we could have done a prepackaged bankruptcy where you would have crammed down unions i'm a union guy. but they extorted so much benefit -- >> neil: you say are you a union guy? areou in a union? >> no, my dad was a union. >> neil: so the reason why you call yourself union guy your dad was in a union. ich is great. so was my dad. i am not a union -- >> here is why. we moved from a crummy apartment to a crummy little house because old man was in a union. >> is that why? >> that is one of --

>> my you moved to the house he was i a union? >> they help provide my father with benefits and work ethic. one thing that the unions did, they did extort, if extort. tremendous benefits at a g.m. what shouldave been done. not against them being bailed out but should have been done through a prepaalled bankruptcy to make the unions -- >> that is what i wonder about. union guy say it's not realistic option. if you pitch the rescue and the bail-out saying you have to shut down the factories they would have never been approvedded. but what we got, we are the taxpayer finance bail-out. that never would he been counted if they wer pitched that way in the first place. >> we talk about the continued recess havior. we know anytime it come up again, peopl say the last one worked. general motors -- >> neil: did it for them.

ben stein -- >> we were in a panic situation. >> neil: absolutely. absolutely. i understand. >> i think they had to step in with somhing more than prepackalled bankruptcy and put the full weight of the federal government behind the rescue. >> i would still choose cadlac over goldman sachs. >> i wouldn't bail out anyone. ut that is me. all right. what if the people who are supposed to benefit from the healthcare law don't really want the law? ain't that a kick in the pants? the forbes gng on how all of this could cost all of you. that is the top of the hour. you next, food for thought. one of the biggest hotels in one of the biggest hotels in ameri [ male announcer ] need he keeping your digestive balance in sync? try align. it's the number e ge recommended probiotic that helps maintain digee balance. ♪

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>> neil: quiet in the break. want to bring you up to speed. hilt in mtown manhattan, biggest hotel is ditching room servi. turns out the expensive burgers aren't giving them a lot of extra beef. it's coming as the airlines are cutting ba on everythi from free food to free carry-on. ben, what isoing on here? >> what is going on here is a disaster. those who travel a lot, arrive late at night exhausted. needing to go over the speeches the next morning need room service. we are suffering terribly. it's just almost unspeakable the forture we are going through. [ laughter ] >> when i hear the pain of america streaming on that, first thing it does in fact come t mind is what i will get the chickp wings at 1:00 in the morning delivered to my room.

the wings are outrageously priced. average they make on room service is $3 a person. >> not far from us had a tray charge. $15 for the tray. can i keep it? they sa no. shocked. i thought we were moving toward a jetson world but it's moving toward the flintstone's world. you go to the supermarket, self-check-out. what the heck happened. prett soon you have to change your linen and have the same towel until you check out. you probably won't see a han being at the hotels in a couple of years. >> neil: but they are giving all this up. maybet's a pay-for-service type of thing. >> brown bag delivery. >> neil: i'm told the hotels with a five star rating must have room service. >> you know what?

you are not stang in the right places. if you want room service from the hillton, no offense. it's food out of a box, bag, jar, canister or god knows where it comes from. it all tasteshe same. >> neil: are hotels going the airline route? >> my mother would say eat a banana before dinner. so ben eat a banana. >> neil: good point. >> what is t relevanc of that? >> i have no idea. >> you don't need room service in the middle of the night. it's bad for you >> you are a health maniac. >> he is. >> i indulge every now and then. >> he jogs more miles than i drive. we have more coming up. another choppy i love you, too. another wk for the choppy markets. charles and ben ha a couple we went out and asked people a simple question:

how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living lger, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official rererement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of ese years. ♪

>> neil: stocksto weather e storm. >> lincoln, it can be a volatile stock but $250 stock ultimately. >> neil: wow! ben, what do you think of lin linken. >> i don't knowwhat charles knows that the market doesn't know but anytime you g warren buffett to do your vesting for you, let's do it. join in with him. he is the greatest jeepous ever been in the world of -- genius ever been in world of stock pking. buy in with him.

he charges his salary, like $1,000 a year on the biggest, one of the biggest companies in the world. let's be his partner. >> neil:nd never invest in anything charles says. that will do it here. cost of freedom continues now. ♪ fighting back after being singled out by the i.r.s. >> what is intolerable is one set of rule forne side of the political fight and anotheret of rules for the other. >> since may of 2011, i have been dormant not only out of the inability to raise money but aect fe govnment had a target on my back. >> iant to protect and preserve the america i grew up n. the america that people cross oceans and risk their lives to ecome a part of. i'm terrified it's slippi away. leader of conservative groups testifying how thei.r.s.. the agency is supposed to foow the money. and the rule of law. but did the victims just prove the tax man was playing politi