♪ neil: all right, now we really know. the guys doing their bidding, they are bolting. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. what do you call microsoft and google and facebook getting a backbone all at the same time? well, big trouble for the white house. major u.s. technology firms are putting the government on notice that they want to give their customers notice. they want to be allowed to disclose exactly how many times authorities demand of them to hand over user data. the present schism, and these high-tech guys are actually freaking out. they have customers and shareholders to wonder why they keep handing over dated to the

government and just how often they have been handing over. never mind the damage has been done and this is sort of like google or microsoft for any one of these as announcing the barn door is open long after the animals have left, but is clearly a sign that these high-tech titans are worried this will cost them some business. they should because standing every customer stuff whether on the direct order or not should be a source of concern. i suspect they will be allowed to state how often this has happened. as if that remotely eases of the extent there that it has happened. added 13 on wind and techies go gasping. what do you make of all this? >> reporter: what is interesting, you know, the fort hood guy gave lots of signs that he was a terrorist and they ignored it. the boston bombers, right, also some internet stuff that there were doing, you know, postings, whenever. did not get caught. you get the feeling that these are like the keystone kops.

its gears me. neil: who are the keystone cops? >> the government. when you hand over this much information and they cannot figure out easy stuff, what will they do with the hard stuff? and what will they do with this information? you get the feeling that they will miss use it at some point because they really don't know how to use itt neil: you know what i worry about, and we just won't know until we know, is whether this was under direct order or they just complied because the government said, you know, we think you should end this stuff over. either way it is unsettling because the -- apparently they do hand it over. >> i don't think that the companies want to go against government orders. certainly google has been putting a transparency reports for quite a while but information that they're giving to the government because they have to. that is the information there are allowed to talk about. now they are desperate for the government to allow them to reveal all. neil: would that really make a difference? okay. i don't know.

>> well, you know, we don't know what exactly they are giving away, and i think what the google and facebook and microsoft are worried about is that since people don't know, there is a chilling effect. so in the last few years, four or five years a lot of people move their information to the cloud, basically to ramos servers, servers with google, microsoft and affirmation sitting on facebook, twitter. and that has been the norm. you're concerned that these companies are allowing the government to access the information you have been leaving on those cloud-based using those services. especially businesses. this is why these companies are concerned. >> this is a business move by them. there customers are in danger. that is what they're finding out. increasing the encouragement about what the electorate on the web. and they are reacting to of very viable business threat.

i mean, if everything you do is actually tracked by the government, asking for multitudes of information, we don't know exactly what that is. people will assume the worst. not just whether you are e-mailing some guy. neil: you are a crusading reporter. >> thank you. [laughter] neil: really. i would imagine your sources don't e-mail stuff to you. okay. have you seen any less of that? >> you know, just so you know, i have been laying off of the male since 2002 when eliot spitzer found all the trove of e-mails about how he was privately -- you know, pieces of you know what. so i don't use e-mail lot except for like one word answers. i will say this, there will be a chilling effect on the business model. if you believe them, you are saying that there not asking for all that much information. they want to show everybody that don't worry about 4 porn usage, you can still download porn. neil: you mentioned goin googlei

just get a sense of google. they are more interested in showing their backbone with the chinese, for example, you can't get this information. washington asks for the same thing, whatever you want. that is weird, perverse high-tech double standard i am seeing, it kind of bothers me. >> well, i think that all of the tech companies want to show a backbone efficient their customer. neil: but affer the fact. i can threaten to beat you up after you left the room. >> and you make a good point. that this has been going on for a while. the only reason that we're all talking about it is because of the whistle-blower, you have to wonder why done the companies ask for more transparency earlier. >> remember they are saying it is contained. not everything, it is specific

stuff. >> that is -- >> i think only reason why they are doing this because it is publicized. >> you are thinking the worst, lance is thinking of worst, i am thinking the worst. i'm not using google for that any more. neil: really. >> true. >> i'm kidding, but you know what i'm saying. neil: i did, i do, i don't know. >> i can't reach you on e-mail. now not going to ill, he is off of the net. neil: i don't know, it is a mess, i appreciate you trying to sort it out, misirabily, i might point out. >> thank you. neil: do you wonder how we get to bottom of government scandals, when the government fires the very one reveals the scandals. first to report potential security breaches on sec

computers that contain crucial stock exchange data, but web was was fired for becoming a nuisance, until confounding facts of the case came out, and sec set eled wit settled with h. weber to tell us how difficult that whistle-blower role can be, david, thank you, i cannot imagine, have you this stuff in front of you, you take it to those who you think want to hear it then you are a villain? >> to begin at the beginning, thank you. secondly, no. whether i learned what i learned, i knew i was going to be fired the day that i learned it. neil: really. >> really. i'm an attorney as well as assert fid fraud examiner -- certifiee fraud examiner. whether i learned what i

learned, and i was driving home that night, i called my wife when is also a lawyer, i told her i was going to lose my job. neil: all right, now, you knew that because you knew were going to talk to someone about it, or you could not sit tight and ignore this stuff. >> will i knew that because of the situation that i was dealing with, which was bernard madoff fraud and alan stanford fraud and potential cyber compromise of second stock computerstock ea foreign add ver adversary thereo way -- >> how do you stumble upon this? >> i came upon this because i was told information with regards to the inappropriate relationships and with regards to cyber compromise. neil: how did the relationship

stage impact what was going to at sec, a lot of people have affairs, were you drawing connection between that and all other neff airouousous stuff. >> the relationship was with key witnesses, it would have tainted the cases, inspectors general and agencies necessarily, have standards of conduct for conducting investigations. we want to know that those investigating are doing it in a straightforward way, that was not being gone. to learn there was a compromise of our investigation, of largest fraud in united states, nobody raised their hand, i knew that night, i would have to raise my hand, and if i did not, i would not be doing a my duty. neil: god bless you. you take that information that snowden has, you stay in u.s.,

you don't go off to hong kong he does. >> i tried to use the sim to report what happened. neil: you got screwed. >> the system failed me. neil: maybe he was familiar with your story, what do you think of what he did? >> i can tell you, if i was his lawyer, and i'm not, but if i was, i would not have advised him to do what he id. neil: why? >> because, first of all, i would never revealed hid name, and his face. but second, because he owed a duty to work within the system, and follow the rule of law. i commend what he did, it took an edgan enormous set of courag. neil: why does everyone say that, i think what you did took huge set of courage, this guy, there was a system in place he

could have done what you did. he did not. he went right to leaking it to the world. >> neil, you could be right, you could have a point, it could perhaps he does not believe in the system. maybe not in this administration. part of my frustration -- >> what if he is just an attention getter. >> he could be. %-revealed what is plainly a is massive violation of the 4 amendment. neil: but, i would liken some much the -- they issue collecting information that might or might not be used for neff airous purposes, what you uncovered was, you knew right away. you stayed here in deal with and risk great peril, this guy is over there, what message each or

both of you send to future whistle-blowers. >> message too current whistle-blowers, that you can win. that you can fight. but you have to understand, that if you are going to raise your hand, it is not easy to raise your hand that doing the right thing can be hard to do. but sometimes it is your duty, i understood that night, even though i was going to lose my job, had to do it i sworn an oath to up hold and protect the the constitution, and the law, by time i did what i did, i was senior most investigative person in the agency, there was nobody else who would raise their hand, i did what i needed to do to protect our country, stock market and retirees, all of whom have their net worth in the stock market, when a cyber compromise of foreign adversaries. neil: i learned a lot talking to you, including don't trust couples who are lawyers, i'm

kidding, thank you very much. david weber. >> thank you. neil: remember when i was talking with the aclu guy on fox news, ours was first show to stop by he announced this lawsuit that aclu just put to administration's desk, yesterday he was all by himself, today of he has company, i mean lots of company. alec,or this mission i upgraded your smart phone.

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and 'cleaand protect' kills odor-causing bacteria. care foyour partial. help protect your natural teeth. neil: aclu take two, if you think only aclu suing over the privacy invasions, think again, one suit stands out as much for auditing as back story of just emotional cruelty, a couple suing for $3 million for being singles out for speaking out, for criticizing the government after their navy seal son of killed in afghanistan.

larry, their son was killed, during the bush administration, right? >> correct. neil: so -- >> no, excuse me. did not occur during bush administration on august 6. of 2011. neil: okay. so why then did they spoke out against the obama administration, and the conduct of the afghan war or drawing down in afghanistan but they felt by criticizing, that then, the administration had singled them out? explain? >> well what happened is that, vice president biden revealed the name of seal team 6 is responsible for death of osama bin laden, that was ironically a breach of national security classified information. taliban saw that, and in subsequent mission, that was flown by seal team 6 members, 22 of them were shot down in a helicopter, in afghanistan.

on august 6, 2011, part of result of administration own policy, that did not allow military to engage in preemptive fire, they have to wait until they are fired up o upon by somf the muslim extremists before they can fire up, the family who lost their son michael, it help critical of president obama and the military for not allowing our servicemen, to protect themselves that is where it originates from. neil: they argue that pile on, for speaking out, they -- it got worse explain. >> what happened was, that charlie strange, the dad, was making calls on his cell phone, he uses verizon, strange numbers start showing up on the screen, digiat thidigits of 1, and 2, hs military, and it turns out these

are numbers that originating overseas, he is making domestic calls. so he came to the conclusion, -hich is logical, that someone is messing with him, they wanted him to know they were tapping his phone to coerce him to not speaking further about the scandal this is the core larry of benghazi scandal, how did ambassador get killed in benghazi, the embassy was not allowed to take protective measures to defend themselves this scandal with the seals is similar it is wrapped into one big bundle am bong is sensitive -- obama administration is sensitive about it, our clients have reason to believe their phones were tapped, they are part of the whole 120 million or so customers -- >> this is different, at issue we're told, nsa tellining folks calm down, we're not spying on

them, but this this case they were, or that is the charge, nsa will come back, to say this is just a record -- we're not listening in, if you can prove this, there was going on, there could and probably would be a pattern of this behavior that goes beyond just, the parents, right? >> well, that is what we'll prove in our lawsuit, we have now an individual who came forward, edward snowden who knows what was going on, we never had that in any of the prior -- >> all he said, tha thus far, 15 plus million american phone records were collected as verizon customers, you say he likely knows more than that? >> well, other people know that, we'll have the opportunity to take discovery in this case. it can be taken in a way that does not breach national security, we're going to get to the bottom of it. neil: do you find it interesting that administration did not have

a problem with leaks that made is look good, for tracking down and killing osama bin laden for example, but a very big problem with leaks that make it look not so good. >> well, that is hypocrisy, in washington. you know what it is. the fact that nsa says something, or that the internet companies say something that is -- collaborating, with the government, does in the make it true. we had a number of leaks with the obama administration, dealing not just with navy seals who killed osama bin laden but the virus, and cyber warfare, and kill land just, last week, the arrow missile defense system in israel, because the administration is trying to compromise israel to keep it from doing a preism ti a -- prem preemptive strike. they get walk on free, they get

to walk but little guys like snowden, they are getting burned, he will be bushed at the stake that is the problem. we've seen congressmen and senators come forward defending what nsa did, because they are ones that came up with the concept, they are defending themselves. neil: a very fascinating legal case, this changes dynamics from a bunch of records on going further. larry -- thank you. >> other thing, we have potential, two class-action lawsuits, having majority of americans part of the lawsuit, this is an opportunity for americans to wage a legal revolution to take their country back, because our government has broken away from the needs and concerns of the people, not unlike what we saw in 1776. regret abily. neil: that was before lawyers like you. larry claman thank you very were. >> thank you, neil. neil: wow. well government, top-secret give

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neil: cia selling out to amazon.com, kind of. popular internet shopping web site, winning a bid to set up cloud computing for spy agency. anyone see a problem? classified intelligence floating in a cloud. hosted by amazon.com. monica crowley does, and joinedly sasha burns, and matt welsh. >> i am all for private sector, they almost always do things

better for government. but added dimension makes it tricky is that we're dealing with national security rhetts secrets. neil: if you are a prime customer -- >> amazon prime, yes, i am set. you have to make sure if government is doing subcontracting out to private contractors that every company is vetted and every person who will have their fingerprints on a highly sensitive program like this, has to be vetted and sworn to up hold our nation's secrets, it is a big risk, but we run that risk anyway. we've had plen plenty government worker leak highly classified secrets. neil: they could package it. sasha? >> the problem is keeping up with technology. where it is going. i think month ca monica, you ar.

we always out source. neil: but it is never put up for sale on amazon, maybe they have. >> they are getting into it. >> it is efficient. >> hundreds of millions of dollars in business for them, it is about protecting the nation, but is it a government worker. neil: out sourcing is not the problem just the people who -- >> who have clearances,. neil: 1.4 million do, matt, are we cheapening this by retailing it. >> i don't think so, the question is not necessarily outsourcing verse doing it in house, but how much secret stuff should the government being doing. are we really sifting through a billion records a day, does

number tossed out today, which seems insane. we have a over secrecy problem, and an over survey len problem. the -- surveillance problem. s more you do this the more people will have access of seeing records that you neat v vet. it is maybe we should not do so many secret things. neil: i would not have a problem with that, i get what i want from john. i am -- john. amazon.com. what do you think of this is goes? >> remember that edward snowden was defense contractor, nsa contractor so he was not working for government, he was a contractor. which means that law apply to him may be different. we don't know. but i do think the more we grow the surveillance state, the

bigger that government gets. neil: that was patriot act out of control. >> as a national security person, i do believe that government should have secrets. neil: when bush pushed this. ttey went too ar? >> i don't think so. i think that threat contacts requires a lot of secrecy. but question is, where is the fine line. if you are subcontracting out, to private sector groups and businesses, you open it up to another set of people, that have to be sworn in. and vetted, a whole new layer of complexity. neil: all right we'll have you there still spinning their wheels in staten island. a half billion dollar ferris while? to throw more sand in their face? oh, boy.

72 all right staten islanders time for your post sandy check list. food, check, supplies, check, loan, slow but check, rebuilding of some home, check. ferris while, check. >> what? ferris while, yeah. they approved a half billion dollar ferris while for staten island. to staten islander john, who might be seeing circles, what do

you make of this. >> it look like hey, we're building an amusement park, there are still tons of people homeless in staten island, they are not amused by thought of $500 million going into a ferris wheel. neil: hat has to be one -- it has to be one hell of a ferris wheel. >> like the london eye. neil: each unit could be a home for staten islanders who are out of their home. >> there are plenty of people, as we've documented who still have no homes. neil: focus on them, not this is, that what i'm saying. >> i think that city should focus on those people, the federal and state response to be focus onned on those people, we're seeing, small steps in the improvement of that, but what people might be overlooking right now, is that this ferris wheel is supposed to attract long-term recovery dollars to staten island. and the long-term recovery affords -- efforts led by

groups byny brothers, need every bit of help they can get. neil: are you behind funding this. >> not the ferris while. neil: i have no doubt, looking long-term making staten island to a tourist destination. not a bad idea, but is now the time to consider it, i don't know. >> right now we're in the bureaucratic process. neil: you have been in the bureaucratic process things is hit. >> yes. neil: how are things going? >> they are still pretty bad. i think chris christie's ability to cuddle up to barack obama has seen new jersey get a tremendous expedited response. neil: you think that staten islanders have been robbed? >> i think that staten island right now is like the rid headed stepchild -- red-headed stepchild of recovery funding efforts, we still have volunteer

and faith-based organizations doing more work than from the federal government. but, the ferris wheel, in itself, i touch base with local councilman, i touch base with the head of the community board 1 who approved that ferris while. their feelings are there are 8 million in in in city, and this will be a benefit to those people in new york city, the tourist dollars that will come in the funnel down into staten island means on a long-term basis. neil: if you go to the ferris %->> maybe you can go to strip. mall they will build next door, move people will probably -- most people will get back on ferry head back to new york city. and you know,. neil: i never thought of your angle, that is a good angle, anything is better than nothing. >> from a public perception, it does not look great to talk about building amusements but i

think this long-term, it may be a good thing to help people, and neil, i can tell you, there is one guy in staten island who probably biggest communiiy active, stu branke,, he fights genesagainst bad for staten isl, high called him, he said, in the long run it is good. neil: i like it, not. all right. thank you very much. he has done more to help people in his hometown. i think than anyone. you need a job? you might want to look into interinternship, some pay, at ge p&a well, very well. wait until i teel you how well. like it has for so many people before. do not take lunesta a if you are allergic to anything in it. en taking lunesta,

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>> an interview for an intership that could lead to a job. >> you are kidding, right? >> you are so old, though.

neil: you know these guys have right idea. because, interns at google they giggle. and if you saw what they were making, you would do more than giggle. how about 6 grand a month? that is right, some of the google interns make that much in this plum assignment. not bad if you can get it, talk about a reason to get blitz, so let's blitz. >> you get all-times in there, that is where money circumstance key that snowed -- money is, the key, snowed know guy was making six-figures a year, and he did not even graduate from high school, so high-tech companies, think about education, our kids are still educated to fit an economy that does not allow for this kind of salary. we have to change our education system so our kidding can go to

google after they graduate, not some incertain ship at a nonprofit. whether they lucky to get 6,000 a year. neil: you know, that is a smart way to attract intriguing talent, pay them a lot. >> right. it is a wonderful marketing tool to get the right type of people into google they want, when are creative, they think outside of the box, people that you know, that can grow that company. listen, don't go to wall street, go to silicone valley. >> don't go to harvard, become a high school drop out the. neil: anyway, issue two, news that amazon is getting to the grocery biz. how did they get that chunky monkey to me in a hurry. >> i think have you a freezer full of chunky monkey, don't you

admit it. >> they are taking over everything, they have your nation secret now our food supply. their profit margin is so small, they practically give stuff away like the kindle. investorses' profit. but their chief competitive or, is walmart, walmart deals with a lower clientele. i think if amazon focusing on whole foods fancymancmances fany may corner the market. >> todd, amazon, will have those overnight arul aarugula shipmen. >> they are a truth els truth ee

culture, when jeff bezos started amazon, he had. -- could be a good fit. neil: issue three, good news for you beleaguered travelers, to get your mind off soda you to to pay for, and blanket you have to pay for, and extra seat, and aislrele, have to pay for, round trip fares, more big airlines are offering back and forth rates below a hundred bucks. >> talking about close profit margins, airlines have closest. this is a new idea, it is an intriguing idea, you pay per distance. if they feel the seats -- if they fill the seats that is key. it is whether they fill the seats, if they fill the seats it

will be great, if not, they will know quickly their profit margins will be thinner. neil: you know, i could not read into this todd, is that fees just continue? you get analyzing offer of a low round trip fair, but the fees have not gone away. >> the fees have not gone away, bbt you know, bags 3 free for southwest. but only a few seat on every plane they will sell at this type of deal. perfect, draws eyes to weather web site. to look for their ticket. and price is not there they are on the web site, and they have a great chance of buying southwest airline ticket. a perfect policy for southwest. and don't bet against southwest. they make a profit every year, do i want to own a airline company? i would like to own a whole airline, but yeah. neil: that either of you have -- neither of you have flown commercial for years. >> yeah we have our own private

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neil: bromance runs deeper than chris christie and barack obama. there is competition is jersey cuban front. a while slough of jersey democratic. they are falling for him like me and sausage at peppers on the atlantic city boardwalk. what about whether he branches

out from the. if republicans were wincing when they all but saw him holding hands with the prez. to gina who said for conservatives this left loving is over the top. you are not a fan of this why not? >> no. neil, i am not. because i think that you know chris crischris christie can wie route this dem love, and republicans hold him accountable for the loss in favor of obama. neil: do you think. really? >> i understand that, but republican are not going to forget that, if people want to make that argument, you now add to that this love of democrats, he is winning by double digits, stated to win bigger than any incumbent. neil: maybe that is his goal, to go back to leary conservatives

like you, tea partiers like you, say what you will, won by a landslide in bluest of blew blue states, i am your man, gina laden says what? >> i can write that commercial, wouldn't you having you have gotterather have gottenrid of on chris christie. we do not have a sense of humor about what happened to our nation, not like the days of reagan, a little democrat love, this is the most left-leans president in the history of united states. neil: true, but no guy or girl will appeal to all your check off issues. but if if governor comes to you, he will try to wow you, and say,

i am mostly the issues that you like, and hold dear. for policing budgets and spending going after big pensions, and abuse, and unions and et cetera. i am the guy to love. >> i felt my blood preup when ys me livid, if that is what we have from this republican establishment, every presidential elect, year after year, and republicans and conservatives are sick of ii we're not going to take it establishment -- >> what if the kind of person you want cannot get alleged. >> i don't believe that for one second, i am tired left and republican establishment believing that lie, i do note believe that for one second, you give us somebody we can trust on issues that we know we have a history with that does not falter on republican platform, and i think that is the person that base wiil circle around, and i cid that through

beginning, i think hiding from social issues is never the answer, you take any group, hispanics or otherwise you will be able to appeal to them on moral and virtuous, and issues of value, i am not buying that lie gain, we have tall en for that one too many times, and chris christie is not getting that exception. neil: if he were nominee you would vote for him. >> i would vote for him, you will always get me there, nile, and i will always vote for mere bake. neil: gina love your spunk, thank you. >> give the spies credit, now they are eyeing your credit report. @%don't know if they look add your verizon state. but i know they are fussing over your bank statement.

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772. neil: maybe she. >> the agency is amassing a database on what you are spending, charging, loans and overdrafts. a little over the top. what is worse, bureau's director will not disclose the, tent of the spying, just that it is for the consumer's own good, even if it costs businesses a bund telecom my, monica just creeping. >> not a surprise. given context with what we've been talking about. consumer protecttion board is in everyone's business.

that is other part of this, whether you talk about nsa or consumer prosecond board, they acquire this personal information about you, number one, how long are they holding it, what are they doing with it. neil: they are selling notion they want to make sure you are not getting screwed. >> every major government reeorm is a way to make your life better. they don't realize that you can't really name very many recent government reforms that did not require to us could crammed through database es. we'll get everify if passed that means all of us in this conversation will have to prove through a database, that we're american citizens to have a job this happens with obamacare, and irs now saying they have the right to look at every bank account you have in the world, and they will make that bank collect taxes on your behalf, that is the world we live in, we

have to fight like hell against the it recognize any third party provider we have, banks, electronic communications, is susceptible to government overreach in the name of reform. neil: is it overreach? >> the difference some from some anothers that all in success out there and used. -- all this information out there is being used. it is being used at market analysis, that is same thing that bureau is use figure for, not to see what my mortgage circumstance they are creating a model. you know. >> do you see a virtue in this, they weed out corrupt behavior on part of linder its might to be good. >> they are using it to exploit consumers. >> they the exploit back.

>> how do you know. >> we freely give our information to our credit card companies or if you belong to cvs club that a choice you make. neil: they sell it. then, the people -- you thought were exclusively giving it to, it is south there for the world. >> this is usually in contractual language, which is why paranoid people like me do not freely give that information up. but we do those in contracts. everything on our financial lives. >> you raise an interesting question with sasha, how do you know, this irs targets of going on for 2 or more years before it was public knowledge. nasonl-- nsa, only reason we knw

about that is snowden that leak. how did you know that they are just going to muse it to protect -- to use it to protect you. government has a line we're doing this with your best interest in mind, we're not overstepping our bounds how do we know that. neil: even as virtuous as it could be. look at burden on business, what do you want? >> you know, i stopped feeling sorry sorry for the banks a while ago. >> my issue -- >> they pile up more regulation, what is answer. >> government relaxed them,

banks tanged the economy -- tanked the economy. >> they can't win for love or money. >> nor can we, i don't question the government's motive but i question there are competence. neil: i question them with my stuff. >> don't move any time soon, because worse of this united states post offers, they resell your information like crazy, someone who moves is a great target. you can't opt out of usps, they will sell your stuff. neil: how bad does this get? we live with it, deal with it? what? >> sasha talks about imcompetence, we know that government incompetance is everywhere, snowden used a pprase, he said, turn key tyranny. this infrastructure is in place,

you never know what is happening tomorrow. %-all of us will be on irs web site no night if you missed it, no i'm kidding, see you tomorr tomorrow. crux steal your personal health information. tonight we will show you how easy it is only had into the system ourselves. >> also, a new danger on the road aais here to warn us about what they're calling a public safety crisis. and big box stores ting gourmet. w good is the fresh brewed target? we're watchi out for you tonight on "the willis report." ♪ gerri: we will have all that