neil: good news, hacking news just coming out, in this case, it is not the government that is hacking us. welcome, i am neil cavuto. news from leaker these that we door a hacker, snowden telling anyone who will listen that u.s. spies are doing a whole lot of eavesdropping, you heard me, we're doing the same thing, snooping, snooping on steroids. hundreds of computers in china. same computers nsa officials believe have been behind the attacks on u.s. military and

commercial networks. some are disturbed by this news. me? not really. i say, you have to fight fire with fire, if the chinese will not stop hacking, then we must hack back. we are, great. you do have to find good news where you can. if this is true, now and then nsa squirrel els find thei els r acorn. to steven who has been following this said we're missing some here. that is tate o is -- the fate of mr. snowden, now chinese to your point, now we know that americans have been hacking us, we got to hang on to mr. snowden more, is that your worry? >> he is an asset.

he is in hong kong, they have availability of him, i would be surprised if he was not picked up and exploited for information he has perhaps a lot more than he has made public. neil: um, i would assume that chinese kind of knew that we were hacking them. just like we know they are hackinggus. and none would be a great surprise, i'll get more into this with joe liker man in a moment. but would should be impetus to hang on to him longer or make our lives more difficult in the u.s. as they do hang on to him longer. >> not that they knew or didn't know we were hacking them. countries spy on one another, it happens all of the time. now we do it with computers, instead of humans. the issue here is what information beyond the fact that we hack, does this guy have that the chinese could possibly get out of him.

this is a very dangerous thing, normally we down let people with high clearances go to dangerous places like that and run around on their own, this guy is leaking like a sieve. sieve. they could take him and squeeze him really hard. neil: what if he is pretending he does not know all he doee. >> that is possible. but, give than information he has leaked has turned out to be genuine. he knows something. >> there is a loot more to come -- a lot more to come, you think? >> i think there might be, i hope it is not in hands of chinese intelligence services, that can turn it back on us. neil: what do you think is going to happen to this kid? >> that is up to the justice department. he has violated multiple federal laws. and should be held to account for it but, that depends on how much effort our government wants

to epend to get him. neil: if they don't, and chinese don't let g what will chinese do to him? >> the chinese will have long and detailed conversations with him, depending on how cooperative he is, depends on how rough they get with him. neil: you just sounded like tony soprano right there i will leave it at, that steven bucci thank you very much. we have ways of getting information. to joe lieberman. senator, great to see you. >> great to be here. neil: um, you know, here is what i wond irabout, and i want your thought on the chinese and all, but when you ran homeland securityy committee, were you aware that something of this bread and nature was going to? >> i was aware of the two programs that were the first focus of the leaks from snowden. >> you knew millions of americans phone records were

being saved. >> right, it -- iifill it was the very important for our security. neil: why. >> it does not violate people's privacy, the so-called metadata they look for patterns in connection with phone numbers, only do this with a court order. this is a form of due process. then as i understood, for some reason they saw something more and they wanted to go further into really, tapping someone's phone or something they had to get a specific court order and show pab always. this is not -- probable cause this is not lawless, this is within the law. i tell you, i know general alexander testified before congress to this effect, this program prevented terrorist attacks gain the u.s. >> you know that for sure. >> i do. neil: i hope they declassify a culcouple of these cases.

it is not looking too good, i think that step before you start, you know listening in on people's calls, tapping and you have record to begin with. that is the start. this is the way that process goes. now they have the initing a. >> important thing to say here, we're still doing this according to rule of law. this -- these programs are carried out under acts adopted by congress, and signed by the president. neil: i don't think there was a president for overreach. look at in different departments and agencies, but anything after conservative groups and individuals after reporters it sort of breeds an a an atmosphef abuse. >> this leak comes at a unparch nafmp nattime -- unfortunate te

trying to defend america from an enemy that strikes in shadows, goes after civilians, does not care how many people they kill weaker have a phenomenal correspondent through modern technology through -- correspondent through th commenh modern technology to stop it. >> don't you worry about one guy, that said, you know, joe likelieberman seeker retired no, let's see what see is saying on that level? >> always possible. i guess that the risk but that risk is so small, when eighed against the -- >> yeah, but, i love you to death, but that small for groups to be targeted by the irs, and

reporter by justice, groups to be you know hit up for money to push promote health care law. every time i hear, it can't happen it does. >> but this is different. those are cases you had people not operating with court orders -- . neil: no, but this kid, this kid part of 1.34 million americans with relatively the same access, who could if they given thht clearance that are granted do the same thing? >> one of the results of this again, it was true with the wikileaks, is how do we utilize the best brains, most capable computer wizards and in other wordsenords, toprotect our coun.

i hang oi think he is a crimina. high violated federal laws, steve said, and espionage act, high described himself as a person who committed a act of civil disobedience in a noble cause, not so long ago, when did you that, you waited for police to arrest you, that made your point, he goes china of all places, not a free internet -- >> turn it around. i worry about is history of our country's treatment of whistle-blowers, initially, it is never good, they have hell to pay, yesterday, we have the guy @%o was first to blow whistle on crazy stuff, and porn watching.

at se sec, he paid dearly, he hd years of hell to deal with, maybe this kid is looking at, that saying, if i explain this, there is hell to pay. >> so, here is something different. most of those whistle-blowers, are not bound by laws that deal with classified material, they see something wrong, something wasteful, and fraudulent they blow the whistle, they are heroes in my opinion, this guy was not, working on a classified program that was protecting our security. and he went to a foreign country, and then divulging this information. i repeat. i hope the government declassifies material soon, the fact is that these programs, these two program he outed, have prevented terrorist attacks again u.s. >> i take your word, i will ask you this. president and his handling of

these crisis, on that level alone,,what do you think? >> well, look he came out. neil: you are no longer in senate. >> it's okay, he gave a defense of this nsa programs, i don't think that president has been strong enough in response to the irs situation. >> but, as a senattr he was against this thing, as president he endorsed it. >> well, maybe he has gotten older and wiser, you what you are president you are commander in chief, you are responsible for security of the country. neil: senator he was young and clueless. >> he was younger and knew less. i will put it that way. >> you are a lawyer. >> he was not president, i think when you get those daily intelligence briefings, which i used to get, you see all of the people plotting again trying to kill americans, and you have these amazing capabilities, to

stop it and you have court rules to prevent it from violating people's privacy, then i think it is more of a plus than a negative. neil: one last thing, all of these crisis togetter. a lot saying, whether the administration or president, was involved directly, if his only defense is he was out of the loop or did not know, there is a lot he was out of the loop on and did not know about, hardly a ringing endorsement of his leadership style. >> presidency is so big, so much comes to his desk, he can't be on top of everything, but he is the president. and therefore he is accountable, and one way or another for everything that happens in his administration. if he can rightfully say, you know i just was doing this i was working on this national problem. i didn't know about this, we has to assume responsibility, and act aggressive 3 clean ily to c.

neil: joe lieberman, great to have new our neighborhood now. >> great to be here, highway hope i did not lower property values. neil: not this this city, it will take a lot to do that after this. anyway, you think only government is interested in touching your junk? don't look now but a lot of companies are too. and turns out they all that privacy for pennies.

neil: fear get nsa, maybe you should worry about ebay, but not quite, a lot of private companies are more than a little interested in things that nsa circumstance including youu stuff -- nsa is, inch colliding your stuff, where you shop, buy,

they can get it on the cheap. how much is your privacy work. >> i am insulted, they don't' my information for more than 50-cents. neil: who selling it? >> did you look at site. rick? >> i said yours that is hot stuff. >> i agree. neil: we'll leave it at that, this is a family show. >> but, you know look at site, you pull up these lists big lists that is why you get the annoying e-mails for products we don't want, almost like the don't call list. there should be something like this in internet world. neil: rick, what do you make of what this portends, they say everything is for sale. >> what pas fascinates he everye

is is a twitter with the government, and nsa, i get it but these private corporation have has much data as government is collecting, nobody really cares, you may disagree. i will saver with government having it than facebook. neil: i get doubling insulted, liz, how bad is this when it is just out there, for the highest bidder, not necessarily bidding a lot? >> yeah, i know, i think it is troubling, some medical profiles they can put together, i wonder if convenient for the consumer will win out over privacy. neil: bingo. >> people have such short attention spans. neil: what -- did you say ? what. i think he is dead on. the convenience of this, they op

for, that how many corporate standals where -- scandals where the culprits were done in my e-mails, and until scandals they are still e-mailing criminal stuff. >> big brother, big sister, big daddy, in is ridiculous, it, it is un-american for the companies to have our private information and they are making a profit. and sharing with the government. neil: rick extinguish -- distinguishing between the government having this and the private companies having it, they are both bad. >> i think liz has it right. nobody cares, i have to tell you, i have been -- >> i think they do. >> i think -- now you are right. >> they don't. neil: attendtion spans when they are, but when a size of magnitude of what is going to it troubles them. >> you know, first of all, you

wouldn't see it in terms of the government, based on polls, that might change, have you not seen it all these years from private sector it has been going on, maybe the price is coming down, that may bother everyone. >> you are right about that. >> but it has gone going on since the at vend of the internet. >> that is bad, we don't know about it, a secret society. >> we knew about it. neil: he sat on homeland securrty committee, he was privy to thinks we were not but he knew about, that and those in power knew, i will ask, liz, you this on this notion, will it change? if you are of the opinion that is pleating and our fixing a and feuer over this is fleeting it is only going to get worse right? only moments away from next scandal or deluge of data from

records. >> i think it will be hard too getting any done without treasure, businesses do need to be careful, in consumers do get realed up about this. hey. they could stop pa patronizing those businesses. >> people are getting realed up, a lot of people are upset with the nsa. >> have you signed off of facebook. >> no, i should. >> are you off of google. >> rick, are you a big facebooker. neil: i am going to defriend rick. >> you would never defriend me. >> we need more security, this is big brother police state bad, we need more pra privacy. >> could we just cut ring you thinunger's microphone.

>> how did this guy get the authority to spy on us guys? he is half a world away now, focus on 1.4 million americans with his same security clear answer, they are here and doing their job, now. alshare. but who can help you fi your own path? who can build you a an, not just a pie chart? who help keep your investments on course, whatev lies ahead? that someone is a morg stanley financial advisor. and we're ready to work for you.

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neil: snowden, ed snowden. doesn't have quite the same ridge as, bond, james bond. it makes me wonder how a guy with view few credentials got to snoop on our credentials.

so too does senator feinstein wonder. which guys get this insight? oversight. how would you window it down? >> basically, it is one of those situation you look at the person's background. you see if that background fits with the job thigh are applying for -- with the job they are applying for, sometime they don't know what they are applying for, in terms of a clearance, you look at a person's conduct in the past, you determine whether or not you think they will be a risk in the future, that including financial issues bankruptcies. neil: he did not have any of that. he was a high school drop out, not that it should be bad. he was a real computer wiz, very smart. adept at math. those are skill sets would be appreciated at nsa, but having

said that, is there another means where you say, it is possible this guy, or thii woman, could just go battie on us? what do you aboutdo as far as psychological or ties that you look at? >> well, that is actually a great point, because sometimes people pass their initial clearance check with flying colors, but when they are in the job force for years they happen. they start getting access to information, they think james bond, or other people like that. and if they do, that then it is -- something that is apart from reality. in a case like that, they look at them every 5 years, there is a 5 year periodic update for securitsecurity clearance. neil: right there, i think we have truncate that down, a lot can happen in 5 years. >> absolutely, i agree,

especially day and age, have you temptations and ability to check on people more quickly, people at clearance bureaus will tell you, we're indicated with work, we cannot keep up but we have to find a better way to look at how we select people for this, i would start with how they change in the job, young people, because young people are subject to so many different things out there so many different not only temptations but also aways of doing things. in this particular case, becomes really important to look at how they are interacting with the workforce, and going about doing certain things, a big red flag, if they are requesting early time off as soon as they get there, he was in this position about 4 months,y and he already requested a leave of absence, that would be a red flag to me if i were supervising that. neil: interesting, i remember a perssn i interviewed years ago for a job.

and he said, how much vacation time do i get? i thought, you know this is not going well for you. but, that is among kind of stuff, not to be silly, you look for and at that would raise eyebrow or should, and they are not doing enough of that? >> right, that is right. other thing is unexplained av afluence. a spy for cia had a lot of things a normal cia employee would not have, a jaguar, and nice house, a wife dressed to the niies in furs, a lot of people do inherit money, but it is rare, you drive fancy cars or you start hanging out in fancy places, if you on a government salary or a contractor working these issues, you have to think, okay where are they getting this money from? when are they doing? what are their motivations. neil: good practical advice.

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neil: you know, i thought this one through, the best spin i can put on latest irs scandal,

maybe, maybe they were trying to beat the rush before they takeover the whole health care law. seizing health care records without americans knowing, ron meyer, what is going on? how did it happen? >> i didn't believe it seems about 60 million medical records, 10 million people's medical records have been seized in california. %-alleged at this point, part oa court case that is being invested. it seems to be real, 10 million americans it 3 and a hundred. 3% of all americans whose medical records were seized. neil: to what end? there seems to be weight to it. but, to what end? what are they looking for? the irs agents in those records outside of saying, irs will

takeover health care, this stuff will be under their pervue. but explain. >> well, frustrating to me, they have general warrants, that tramples the fourth amendment, a warrant is supposed to be specific, and have prob call probable cause, this is unconstitutional, but i think they are looking for one guy. i wish if they were looking for just one guy they would go in and ir extract one record this seems like a te terrible aubus f privacy and the fourth amendment, that is what is so aggravating. neil: it does follow a pattern. consumer financial protect board is taking a lot of data like credit record, mortgage

information and payment history, they say just to get this stuff together, so it is an arsenal they have if the companies are screwing you over, why do yyu need this too? it is a pile on? >> it is a pile on. i think americans are getting frustrated, young people, you know talking about nsa, talking about phones healthy records that is more personal. and so you know, bridge this back to business side. you know companies, they loss tons of -- lose tons of stuck with security breaches, records are looked into, now irs is doing that looking into people's records they have force of law behind them that is scary. you know we've seen companies tank because their records have been leaked. and companies lose stock that way, but government is now coming in getting those records, we don't know how secure they are, and they have the power of law behind them, this is a terrible precedent, businesses are not comfortable with, and i

am not comfort with ii as a private citizen. neil: this was a test case to see how they could assimilate this information is thigh theor -- is my theory, i will say this, much like verizon phone record situation, it is indicative of the power of government has to get a lot of stuff, quickly and easily. >> does not matter, if it is sinister, it is unconstitutional, they use aid used a warrant to get this. neil: i think what should be more alarming is why. just why. and we're not even asking that question, saying trust us, when someone says trust us, i get worried. >> american people are losing it, absolutely. neil: ron thank you very much. ron meyer. >> thank you, neil. neil: this just in, apple just gave up. says it no longer innovating, it

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neil: now reports that apple's next iphone, might look a lot like samsungs, what is going on? all the buzz, and it rightly leads our biz blitz, jonathan hoenig and gary b smith. gary b, now a phone that

resembles one that samsung has been putting out for years. >> i guess, the mouse is now chasing the cat or positions have been reversed. apple has been the innovate or, now they are forced to lay catch up, this is great for american consumer. apple needs to innovate or reinnovate to cash up, maybe they will get theer act in gear, this is a win-win. neil: what do you think jonathon. >> there is no monopoly in a free market even for apple. it has more money in the bank than a lot of small countries in their treasury. gary b's point, they are following but also responding to customer demand, a lot of customer said that iphone 5 screen is too small. and they are rolling out an iphone that is $99 is remarkable. today original mac would cost

6500. >> i am an apple shareholder, full disclosure, there was a time when apple did not hava to wade into the low price pool, it might be a welcome development you might berate it will be advantageous longer term, but gary b it is an ego adjustment for apple? >> absolutely, but you know, in in case, i think subtling shareholders have spoken. apple needs to keep you know making revenue, keep making profit. they are usiig this low entry get into market that have been kind of restricted to them because of the price point. so who benefits here? the shareholders and those buying the $99 phone. neil: a good point. >> a lot is not at home, but over seas, an emerging market u$99 for a phone could be a leg up for company. neil: we'll see, issue two.

this is probably a question. do you love white castle? but closest one is a long drive for you? how about twice castle drive to you. taking to the highway, launching what white castle called crave mobiles for big evens like weddings, for the couple that saying, sliders and step on it. gary b, will this work? >> absolutely, why -- why are we just discovery food trucks for all foods we love. we this them, we grew up with ice cream trucks. nnil: i hijacked these ice cream trucks. >> this is a great idea, there is a demand, wrote mobile food business is soaring, i applaud white cas ill. neil: this is just special events but it could expand jonathan? >> well, it has come along way

from old days old roach coaches as food trucks were once called, they are hits, and they are go may, and low cost, for a company like white castle, a test market for new products and allows them to scout out new locations, if a particular food truck has a success perhaps they will open a stand alone franchise, a win for white castle, and you may seen more bricks and mortar restaurants opening food trucks has 92 this could be a -- >> this could be a cheap food option for my daughter's wedding. finally, i don't know if consumers will go for burgers on the go, but i know more are getting their buns in a car going to stores, retail sales picked up last month, cars are a

big part, but shoppers are back if you take them out. jonathan for how long? >> well, watch the market for that. you know. the dow has been up for 7 straight months, i don't think it is too surprising, you see a little bit of that wealth effect come out, people file richer, they are more inclined to shop at mall or buy real estate, we've seen rising values, i like to see not so much people shopping but people investing. i like to see more people starting new businesses and putting money into the economy rather than spend it oo the at mall. neil: gary. >> well, i guess weed to to add consumers to the list of inevitabilities with death and taxes, they do not go away. no matter what is going on, you can count on the consumer, i do worry we'll see the creator debt go up -- credit card debt go up, i know margin low was was at an all tile high, i am worried

that people are spending beyond their means, i'm not sure that under lying economy justifies it you know still high unemployment rate. neil: but you are a cheapskate. >> i am. neil: that white castle truck is as shrex re sheehsheeas you get. >> a better legacy unity foto leave the world. we have ways believed this rsui striving to brininsight to every investment, and inintegrity to every plan.

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neil: when it comes to big three networking waning coverage on

what has been could panding irs scandal -- expanning irs scandal, you have to wonder if they are borrow worried, either they i have have all but dropped story from 52 stories in first week, to just one story, that is so far this week. media watcher brent, has been crunching these numbers. what happened? >> well, maybe it is, because i think that the media, the networks are complicit in a cover-up, how in the world can they say, in a two weee period, from may -- from may 10 to may 23, we should do 96 stories, then next two weeks 31, then now down to 1. they say, well nothing is happened. let me ask you this you tell me, if you think it is news that the inspector general report how come out, said that 1,000 irs agencies were abusing their

credit cards, meaning that instead of taxpayer abusing government, now the government is is a bussinsing abusing -- abusing the taxpayer. >> you are right, i am so glad do you this stuff, of day we have new development that show how controversial it is getting, as a talked -- >> how about this. how about this. neil: his is bigger than just cincinnati, and he is mad at washington for blaming cincinnati. >> how about this, you think that american people have a right to know, terry jeffrey broke the story that irs of investing in spying come. hidden camera in plants in clocks in ashtrays to spy on tax payers. by the way today, they cancelled that contract. ight to know that american that? how about today, just today, jim jordan, in a house hearing, asked the head of the fbi, who

is in charge of the investigation? the head of fbi said, he does not know. how is this not news. neil: you know, i always think, even if you take sinister intentions aside, which i doubt. we have all scandals going on at say same time, the one with the bipartisan ickiness is you know nsa, getting people's phone records. but i found it a convenient different distraction from irs thing that is more damaging but it is provide an opportunity. >> in the initial stages this was a bipartisan outrage. andrea mitchell calling this greatest outrage, it was bipartisan, but this should like so many other scandals. neil: what do you think happened. >> they never get to the bottom@

of it. i think that the trail, because they lied and said it came out of cincinnati, why were they lying? why did this woman take the fifth. the woman in charge of it. neil: the talked to cincinnati auditor,ly is say democrat he said, not so. why are they jumping on cincinnati? >> in never makes sense. neil: people higher up in washington had to be calls the shots, we in cincinnati don't have the power to do this stuff. >> you don't need to have the brain of a cocoa now th coconuts no one will say, let's investigate 500 tea party groups that makes no sense, it is coming out of washington. the public deserves to know who called shot, and why they were called and what they did, we do not know the answers, how can sesay this is no longer worthy of being covered.

neil: brent i apologize to all coconuts who may have been offended by your coconut statement, good to see you. >> thank you, neil. neil: you thought the tan mom was ticked. she just found out that tanning taxes are here to stay. she better keep our pants on and better not curse. we are all so getting bad. the capital one purchaserase i can redeem the double miles i earned wh my venture card to erase rece travel purcses. d th a few clicks, this mission never happened. uh, what'shis buon do? [ electricitity zaps ] ♪ you requested bacp? yes. yes i did. at's i your wallet? yes i did. it's en that wa ysince e day you met. but your erectile dysfunction -

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a iend under wer is something completelyifferent. i met a turt f friend today. av whatever you're oking for, expedia has mo ways to hp yofind yours. neil: one jersey shore town is fighting people up to $200 for wearing baggy pants that having a bit too low. lots of towns are coming up with creative ways to get folks to copy of -- cough up, including an interesting case where you get fined $20 each time. what the hell?

you have a problem? tell it to the judge, but you better not swear. >> thank you, thank you. but. >> i would use different words, creative ones. if i did find, it's ridiculous. freedom of speech is my constitutional right. neil: whht about that think? >> well, why don't we have a scale. you get audited way too much, you can't get in. where does it end? >> that would kill two-thirds of americans. i know what to do that. what do you think of that? are we -- i know they are hard up for cash, but they're getting to see. and i am a big fan of cracking down. but i don't know if i was start assigning financial penalties. >> look. i know if we went to middleton we would end up like sign tells last episode, and a jail cell. new have to be a little careful

on this. you have to be a little careful. one of the things that there has been some legislation, local legislation, now, i live in santa monica for many years in california. and we have a leaf blower prohibition where you can get in big trouble if your gardener was using it because of the sound pollution. neil: the removal. >> i don't know if it is different. neil: out that they remove leaves? >> rates. you had to reagan. neil: and remember those days. >> here is my question. is it okay to buy that kind of sound pollution but allows sound pollution be as wearing? >> you know what i think this is all about, however expensive these are on a personal level i think they're all about money. elizabeth, they want money aad they have to find ways to do it. is the equivalent of airlines with the fees for where you sit and the blanket. and theyyjust nickel and dime

you every which way like i was telling us over the break. you can tell it is getting to be crunch time and a talented star ticketing everybody and his uncle. ammine him ann that is all this is. >> it is interesting to look at the money angle, but also looking at it from the other angle. they're people riding in saying, we will not vacation here anymore because the clothing is÷ so and decent. it is a consumer-driven changed. neil: you ever go to the boardwalk. the thing you find most offensive is the clothing? [laughter] let me -- >> during the policing for these kids. kids are walking out with baggy pants. the parents take care of that. >> the fashion police. if you wanted dress badly, you know what to look at it cannot turn away. neil: don't need to do anything. >> that's right.

what i'm wearing, the boots, a hair. give me a break. get out of my life. we cannot even address the way that we want to. neil: all right. our resident liberal year is perfectly fine with all of this big brother isn't. during the bush years. explain your hypocrisy, if you will? >> my blatant hypocrisy. somebody cut me a break. look. i mean, this is hard one for me to defend. i will be honest. finding people for wearing baggies. if they had done that earlier we never would have had jersey shore. neil: we should just find that tanned for living. >> actually, i am okay with that. if you have enough money to waste going to a tanning salon, they should tax you on it.

@% what the people that tanning? >> a lot of people do. a lot of people do. but we are in this sort of politically correct environment where we tried to the -- language. and, you know, maybe whether it is more money or not, we want to enforce it. what do you think of that? >> it is risky when you allow the government is regulating. to a certain extent there is precedent in the local government enforcing public decency standards. you can't walk around lot of places. [laughter] >> joke about that. >> it people are hot and newt, no one will complain. neil: i had that bill clinton answer. explain what the meaning of knew this. you're saying, we have to be careful. we don't overdo it. >> obviously, you fried my

brain, i don't know what i would saa. i can i get it out of my head. neil: i get you thinking and i think you get -- i think i get you all excited. no laws microphone was removed, thht is coming tomorrow. goodbyy. ♪ >> still coming across by the hundreds and thousands. john: iilegal immigration is down, but people still sneak and plexuses a pretty good-sized told. i am dissing this. >> it does not matter how high offenses. john: we need to seal our borders. >> god our borders, protecting the homeland. >> illegals steal american jobs. john: if immigrants are such up problem what is canada's immigration by billboards in america. >> we will take it. >> the fight of the american dream. that is our show tonight. ♪