saa. i can i get itut of my head. il: i get you thinking and i think you get -- i think get excited. no laws mrophone was removed, thht is coming tomorrow. gobyy. ♪ >> still cing across t hundreds and thousands john: iilegalmmigration is down, but people still sneak and plexuses a pretty good-sized told i am dissing this. >> it does n matter howigh offenses. john: we need seal o our borders. >> god our borders, protectg the homeland. >> illegals steal american jobs. john: if iigrants are such up probem what is cada's immigration by billboards in america. >> we wi take it. >> the fight of the american dream. that is our show tonight. ♪

>>nd now john stossel. john: my parents were born in germany and could not find work in europe,,so ttey came here to america, people around the world america is the dream. as a libertarian say, let people come, let thean. there should be free trade and bor as wells goods and services because that leas evyooe more free and rich. except how can you let everyone and if some of the want to murder arrest? and since america is a welfare state, someone to come here. america's answer has been, well, we wl let some people in legally, but we should se the bordero keep undesirables out we recently spe bons to put up the giant offense on the xican border. how is that working out? specialorporation -- special correspondent just went to the southern border with califoonia assemblyman. a former member of the minutemen

, one of the volunteer groups that started their own border patrol's to try to hlp stop illegalmmigration. >> caught between two govements. so many politians pontificate. john: theorder fence to not cover the old border. as smart smuggler is not going to go to where the security is. he will take the weak spot. john: lots of weak spots lik this and guarded tunnel that led him what t mexico. >> you are in mexico now. youe in violation. jo: even where the was fans, people vetiver. theyring ladders like this one we found lying right next to the fans', they cut holes inhe fence. this one has been passed, but it does not matter how high fencecs if you can cut holes in it. john: many ials are caught

sneaking through, they are sent ba to mexo, many media the snk back tomerica. its where the jobs are, is man says. >> ne, two, three, four, five times. jo: fourears later, fewer cross illegally bause t mexin economymy has done better. we build bigger, stronr fences. john: a the border patrol now are here? >> oh, yes. john: an hour later they showed up. >> filmi a segment. i intend donald -- tenonnelly. john: afte that the left them alone. once more fences. >> is this your idealans? >> this is good. it forces people who want to smuggle something to go to a high point where law-enforcement border prol agnts can easy see they have been interdicted. we ought to secure it. hn: a problem with the current fans. >> here is this biggeffective

miti dce. impervious, scalable. then all the sudden it just hands. this right here is aurd. >> despite the billions we have spent, there are sti lots of balls in the fence. especially the older part. >> this looks like a pretty good-sized already you. >> this is an area th we have volunteers who came down wh a weing track and well that up these holes. i mean, it is pchwork. >> i'm touching mexico. john: not that hard to get over the fence. drug dealers build ramps. this car happens to get stuck. kennedy found it was pretty easy to climb the fence. >> you could totally get over this. john: in fact, there were >> pointy. >> easiir to cross from the otr side.

jjhn: thank you for goingre and clearly there are problems with both sounds. but proponents of the wall say, hey, this deters people. theeps a lot of people out. >> not really because there are only3 rcent of the border that is actually protected by some kind of fencing. as you saw, -- john: suspect atowntown every 2,000 miles in the mexic border. >> just the souther borr. john: the other part is harder get to, mountainous. >> it is mouaino, boris. there were holes all o over the part of the fence that we saw. arona, texas, you're going to see the same thing. it is t -- cin is only as strong as its weakest link. the chain is only effective a pistol. john: this is the age of cool, amazing technology. i would think with drones,he cames,resident bush fou it a virtual fans. >> he did pmise a virtual

fans, but it w costly, still requires a lot of border patrol manpower john: they give up on it. >> they did. it w costing billions of dollars. the gao, a general accounting office issued several skating reports abo thetual fans because it was a boondoggle, too expensive and it was enough time to work and still ruire just as much if not more manpower. john: theyouldpend mor but most of the people who sneak in the country now, 40%. >> forty to 50%. forty to 50 percent of the people like him intohis country and stayed illegally are here on student visas. john: illegal visas and then just she was the already in the country. >> they hang out and stay past their visa stamp date. john: all wl does not sol the problem. thank you. currently congress is working on an immigration reform bill. many people are optimtic that there ll comup and it but an agreement and an easie path to citizenship.

i, for one, up they do. many cservatives areervous. for years they wted me done about thht stream people crossi the border. >> wcannot shut tha off unless we build a fence and a wall. i want to put all wa in. i desned one. >> aittle bit of wire on top to provide. put a letter there. @% can also electrify this wire. the kind of current that would not kill somebody the simply be a discouraging for them to be fooling around. liveststock al the time. john: immigration pblem should improve, he says. > you can take it bacow. if somehow they got tir economy working and got tir lawsorking and in mexico we could pull this back and jusas easily as reported in. john: former presidential candidate in colorado congressman, more security and wants other measures to deter illegal immigration. congressman, thank you for joining espirito would you do? we showed thholes in the wall..3

that does not look like the answer to me >> it isn't. and theeporter is absolutely correct when she says it is only as good as its weakest link. there are some places where there are not at all. it is almost a joke. fo the most par it is don for the purpose offand coming to thh congress and the american people an saying, we spent hundreds of millions of dollars on the border it is now secure. the fact is, y can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on the border and is still not will be sece. here is what can be don all you have to do his mandate and then enforce e-rarefy. the mandated for eveey single employee. they have to simpl take socia security. adelle on line and it takes two minutes of the most. d.c. the person wanting a job, let th're soal security number and put it and because bat-to-bat.

don't know what wrong wh it. the number is bad. if you dohat, if you mandate and un force to important things , e-very. most of thiproblem goes away. youay eorce. john: meaning g that somebody woulpunish the business that hires someone whout using e-verify. >> correct. or if they use it, even if the use it and still hire a person whos coming back with the wrong social security number, that could be a violation and after enforce it. john: this sounds very appealin just oneomputer database whe you can check. but you are a conservative. you don't trust the government. why would you trust them to run e-verify correctly? >> well, right now about 250,0 busisses use it. th use it on a voluntary basis. it is a relively easy thing to do.

we require businesses to do all kinds of things in terms of hiring practic. this is probably the easiest step in the process. a simple entry inta database. right now is like 98 percent accurate or betr. john: thi about 98 percent. 98 percent accure sounds pretty good. and it a gao aududit into dozen1 found it was even better 99 percent accuracy. but that means about 450,000 people who a lit get flagged as illegal. that is awful. >> first of all, they don't get theob is the iss. you know what, this is not 10percent. it is not 100 percent.

@%t it just depends. you want an answer? that is my question. you actually want to do someing about it all would you rather have, as you said, lab rce that is affected only by maets? demand. people come. e wwge ratesnd lowered because they're is a lot of demand. so be it. john: what's wrong with that? >> well, what is wrong with i okay. how abobout the millionof amicans whose wage rat are depressed and/or the people who are dislaced. the employer like that and a lot of consumers would like it, but the worrs are oing to be netively affected. john: what a the america to do have just because their work for gloria who were these businees created by emigrts.

>> l let them keep working. immigrants, we are not trying to stop every immignt from coming into the country. why not take in that we need desperately, people coming in with capital to actually do exactly what you said, invest in business. people coming in witkills3 that we nd. right now we don't need a lot of people wit low skills and low wage rates. ey are just not necesry. john: i'm going to talk ter in the sw about age e be visas which iss for skilled workers. youald them fraudulent. >> they are. john h1 be visas were originally designed fo t person that has unique underlying -- unique qualifications nowhere else in the world can we find that person. that it -- that is what was designed for. john: nowhere else i the world? >> yes. i'm sorry. no onen the unite states defined person wit that qualification.

what it has turned into unfortunaty, again, lot of the oddest that you referred to earlier have identified the problem. they're now being used to brg pele in who have skills but will work for less than people who aresent employed in the united states. john: peoplen america are just as skilled and could take the people from iia, th computer engineers are not better. >> in the of the institutions of higher education. are you really not turning out anybody that has these rticular skills? it will tell you all the time that they are, but they are in directp --ompetition. john: a lot of the graauat students are from china and india. they are skill, but they're not americanans. we bring them over and give them a colleg edution and then put them out. >> that'sig.

if wee need a particular skill immigraon policy should reflect that. >> of demand. le them work. john: the outsi of the economy. thank you. cong up, the debate on whether migration i given a bad for america. more on th. and more on social networking.

♪ jo: feeling one of these? cleaning our studio floor. the company that made it was started by an immigrant, one of thousands. we allowed some skilled entrepreneurs in. and that is why we need to let more foreigners io the u.s. th csumer electronics association. so, your group runs this massive @%ow in las vas were all of these tech entrepreurs show off this stuff. you can really see the emigrant? >> absolutely. 3,000 companies that are extending to 150,000 pple from around the world. my are pursuing the american

dream. they have an idea d now they can get funding to partnerships, retail and media coverage. john: they come here becse they want to network in silicon valley and stuff happens. > absolutely. i go around theorld and every one sp the like america because we're the best in the world. detracted best and brightest. y cnt should have a strategy immigration. we los ours. we set up our borders, and it's hurting as. john: whato you mean we shot of our borders? >> we are disuraging peop from coming here. very difficult. wh they become students they get their pcs and we keephem out. is a crime. john: kicking them out as the weird part. we pay for their education help them pay for it. and tn i know we have these h1b vashere we let high-skilled people and, 85,000 year. >> we need more bau that allocation buildup in few

days. john: a w days. >> if you days. in the long run is a specialized jobs that cannot be filled by amicans which is why comnies are looking for thousands of people which is why they go invest overseas between the tax laws and the immigration laws. forcing our best companies higher overseas. john: we have american neers to could do these js. >> we have some, but not a engineers and software peoe of the me. th is like the deficit i the nba and high-school basketball. america is a land where exhibitionismtands out. we want the best and brightest. we want top from around the world. the rest of the world use to me here. australia, canada, new zealand, europe, they're all saying we will go after the best and brightest. $7 billion per year to research and american universities. t of that is done by foreign udents in science, technology, engineering, math.

jimmy ck them out when they get ah.d. john: on that note, give us some these. these quotas limit e number. so complex,o mh so that canada is paying for billboards like this one. have a h1broblems? pivot to canada. the immration, even went califoia jury chris meyer workers. >> they need immigration lawyers to figure out how to keep their status will they're trying to start a business and create jobs we give a green card to take a few months to process that. john: something called the start of the sow with the applicant, 200,000 from a canadian venture-capital list. 75,000 from a canadian angel investor group. if hean speak french or english you can go to canada. >> these are immigrants better job creators. that is anmmortant thing to remember. we are the most heterogeneous coany in the boroughs, our diversity, different points of

view that give us that edge. compared to asian countries were eryone agrees. they lack innovation. the chine have a goal. but they a not -- that is par o their plan. th is what they're trying to do, and it is something which does not make any sse because what it really takes is a culture which is why there a over 200. john an argument? >> i tell you, 200,000 chinese students increasingly tender agesecause they don't know ho to teach kids. we as thei kids, they start. john: in america. >> rht. in chinese they do our culture right and no laws are wrong. john: 200,000 from venture-capital is, 75 fm an angel. >> easier to get venture-capital probably a policy where you don't want peoe coming year. it requires significant investment. john: and it is harder now than they used to be for an immigrant to start a business.

>> charter because so many people want to. we made it much more difficult. we don't treat people as well as they used to. we have competition and we have higher corporate taxes. lot of things are working against this in the long term and we have to change as a country of one to succeed because other countries now are doing will we're doing. we are not gettinghe bt and brigesest. i he seen harvard ph.d. to tears in their eyes being kicke out of the coury. they want to stay here and hire people and getobs and start. john: thank you. gary shapiro. you can learn more about what he says from this book, the come back, how innovation will restore e american dream. i sure hop the american dream is still there and does not nd total restoring, wha walmight to avoid america's bureaucracy and immigration restrictions might be to start e your own country right o o america's

coast on may be a cruise ship like this one. my next guest plans to do that. ♪

♪ john: my last gue complains it is too hard for skilled immiants to illegally work here. so if politicians won't allow engineers and physicists then, here is another approach, start your own business. 12 miles off the coast of california outside the reach american immigration control. that is actually the plan of a group called bluy, founders are max marty dario. so what are you going to do? >> we are creating a community 12 miles off the coast ofhe sa francisco bay area to allow entrepreneurs from all around the world to come the, live and work on their srt-ups, brd new early age companies. john: on a cruis ship.

>> is on a cruise sh that will be essentially stationery 12 miles off the coast. john: off the coast of san francisco because that is where e yacht to printers wanto be >> this is the place where silicon valley is, san francis bay. this is onef theest locations anywhere in the world to start and grow businesses in the high-tech secr espially. so thiis the mecca for entrepreneurs, and man have hard time coming to this asome place that silicon valley is because of the restrictions that the p -- face. they're entrepreneurs of one to eate jobs and padoxically they have hard time coming in. john: 12 miles off the cst yore free to do what you want independent of thehe government? >> you are outside --egal the ouide ofhe.s. regulatory regime to mouse out ofhe deral government, things like the sec, regulations, things like that. john: lotof companies have

expresd interes. >> more than 414 companies exessed -- expect interest. so theemand is clearly not a problem because so many mpanies are frustrated with their current regulatory regime at they're faced with the. john: and people are already ging you money? what would cost? >> you have to rent e cruise ship, paper things th the crew on board, moving provisions back-and-forth. it's a ptty big operationthat will cost about 27 million to be dealt and certain operations. so far we have raised a small seed fund and a silicon valley, of 400,000 have another 9 million reserved for investors in silicon valley, looking for the remaining 18. and we are looking for the remaining8 sets get going. john: originally you planned to

us look at the picture here, ild the whole cy heldn the ocean. that would have been with pilings. why did you drop thaha >> the current solution is much more cost-effective. one versi of this. we wou like to start with some more lean can achieveersion that will get thehe job done. john: you are an immigrant. >> i am myself. john: you went through the process. was a torture? >> actually myself i came here out of political asylum, so the process -- john: year from bosnia. >> number bosnia. aciousnough to extend leases to me and my family. and as an immigrant and i can tell you from a personal perspective that ii me a huge difference being here, havg an opportunity this. and it can be seen as my way of ying back that opportunity that i have been given.

basically alike ften lead to others. many of them are as ambitious or more so than i am. smarter than i am. this notion of the amerin dream is definitely someing that on a personal level i believe in bause that's it. john: and a your parents were immigran. >> they came out - came over when castro took power in cuba. now they themselves entrepreneurs. they have a small medic business in miami. john: something that is different. >> i think they are a sel selected bunch. a person who is actually willing to leave everything that they have, their families, go somewhere else, theyt to change their lives. there are more likely to be a person who is polk --ro-active about creating a feature for the families and lives lost to get your. >> it i important to menention that this oh count was founded by emigrants. the american dna, not just t recent ones. thehole country has this and

entrepreneurial dna becse of the fact that people moved ey had to leave their countries across the oceans. so i tnk this story has --t is an old one. so i see mysf as just a part oft come a continuation of the same story. john: thank you. comingp,,a debate on whether immigration takes jobs for amerrcans. we touched on that earli. next, she is one of america's coolest young entrepreneur is she says beingn immigrant is part of wha e han entrepreneur. ♪ hi, i'm terr and i have diabetinerve pain.

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♪ john: before we return to the debate over immigration, let's celebrate the success story. 40 perce of america's biggest companies were founded by immigrants or their children.

apple, budweiser, colgate, ibm, mcdonald's. in the high-tech field its 60%. well, a new company may be the next monster success. i don't kno but she is already earning millions commanding a magazine cled one of america's coolest young erepreneurs. >> don't know why one caught but i believe that i work hard and. i le making things happen. john: your company is this and maeting group. yo advise companies. >> t marketing, full-serve marketing firm. john: and you went to school. you came her when you were a years old. >> nine years old. john: nine years old. your father drove a cab and your moor to attract any shop >> my parents left very -- a ry successful family business beckham.

it worked very hard. i went from having lots of family surrounding me and being gutted on to being a latchkey kid. i was responsible for my and your sister. i had to make sure she was fed, save, got off from school locate . my parents worked full-time. so whenever, as long as she was okay. that's it. john: issue alive? >> successful, driving, so i did something right. -ohn and were y aware of you parent wook ethic as a kid? there were may be different from the parents and the other kids in the school. >> definitely. my parents worked much harder than somof the parenents. there would wake up early, come on lead night. they were grateful to be here that they ere willing t work hard, and i neveraw them complain. my dad worked ridiculously long hours, but i never saw him say this is too tough.

he just kind of brace of that was the meaning of life. john: how are you different from our american beers? @% the general sense o enttilement that my generation often gets blamed goods. a little dferent than that because i saw wha i didn't have. compared to what i do have. a much morore gratel thing that some of my peers i that it not expect anythinto be handed to me. errant when the recession hit riyadh gduated a there were no jobs in the market. certainly my industry did exist. it took me sometime, but i went out there and started my own thing. i ave a lot of peers w graduated with me here still don'tave jobs who are livg withheir parents. john: they went to companies in return down. you, instead, started your own thing. you tried. went to companies and said, expand this thing called twitter. they said -- >> they said you're crazy.

this isocial media is a fad. it did not get. very early. so we decided you really ddn't have much toose. and as some of parents in skynyrd facile nothing and blt sothing substantial. i knew it cld be done. john: 30 people worng for you. americans. >> yes. john: a book theen of social media marking. that's right. john: zen about the constant tweeting >> is out to work with social media. the essence is people want have conversations. they're looking for quality information. they're looking for customer servic. looking connect. if you work with that rher than against it with -- which is th traditional way to market. draw message out there. stead, if you reay work with sociallmedia, kind of lk a why theseools are created and go with the flow,t's a much more is in like experience. john: good luck. have you become a billion dollar

company. >> thank you. john: thank you. next, ppleike ct, emigrants, steal our jobs. sevel ad campaign say that they do. >> mass emigration

♪

john: polls show most americans en't -- thank arrogce te away american jobs and then some cases ey do. and we see ads like this. >> and other american has lost his job. another breadwinner going home with the bad news. last yea to a half million erica's lost jobs. high-th nstruction and auto workers. withilons of jless, our government is still bringing in a million have borne worrs a year to ke american jobs. john: that sound terrible, it is just intuive. that means there are fer js left for americansand i really e ople who did found standing in line and an unemploymentffice >> is going to make it worse than it already is. i'm about making i over your first before we take care of

someone else. john: interviewing as people for a domentary he has made called they come to america. denn says too much immigratn harmsmerican. studying immigration at the cato institute and said that prevailing wisdom is crazy. the mor immigration the better. why? it is logical that they'reake on america's jobs. >> not a fed number of jobsn the economy. the more people that we have come to an area, attractedo an area for job opportunities. wathere are they create jobs by beingonmerist among being entrepreneurs, having different skills than ericans. they work together for americans and e jo marke what we see an alarmingly, and minister of american hisry, they come when the a jobs, n'tt there aren't . john: they create jobs. shaking your hd and leaning away fm them.

>>ou will see. those people areot actors. and there are 20, maybe 30 million more peopl like them to grab my hand and say pleas tossup what you are doing because i cannot judge job because ey're bng given to people with tempora visas. not onceid you mention the unemployment rate in this country. amicans are hurting, john. they're hurting. people re taking their jobs. >> but are they hurting because of immigration? we into the people waiting in the unployment line there are no jobs of there. john: we even -- he me out. we went arnd and found within two hou, within a few blos of this on a point of this 40 jobs, 28 for beginners. i think themigrants try harder >> try harder athat?

wrote t hideout think he crossed the rio grande. you watch my films and see hundreds of guy standing in the corner waiting to g picked up to build their roofs or to put in windows were to paint the home. meanwhile, good r them. well, the last time i checked lot of americans, construction workers, who want to do those jobs. >> the last line of argument only makes sense if you thi people are a lbility in an asset. every single point he made could be made against having more americans. is man, and i don't begrudge him,ut he is part of the think tank. weave enough thinkers. if i had it taken away cal it do tank. i am outhere doing. i am meeting withhese people. i am gng down to the border. if you saw what i saw coming across the border, little segment the youad t frrnt was nice. it was cute, but that is our people are coming. i have seen m with machine

guns crossing over into the united states of americaith 60 people at a clip. @%u to the right and s a guy from the middle et. i find science. i could give you the picture off. signs written in chinese. >> every argument he is making is an argument for ireasing legal immigraton in allooing peop to come in through the legal system so they can get back projectsnd get on welfare. >> that's not te. >> i studied. >> you can study all you want. there's a difference. >> you don't know what you're talking about? , i don' okay i ve had businesses, many of th. n'tant to here about amicans will work hard. >> first of all, let me finish this point. very important. john: finish your point. >> and not again immigration. i love immigration. i hire people through vises. but they're is a difference.

we are taking into many people right now, throwing americans under the bus. john: the sam as saying i'm against the people being born. it is an antierso argument. >> it is not a anti person gument. >>aving peoole ce. he's making it an anti welfare argument. it's great if he me an anti-immigrant argument, but every argument he is using his one is the welfare sta, and i am in favor. we like reality in data. agassi 42% less. >>hen make the same arguments you did. [inaudible conversations] you need to know more about your history. john: too much at e same time. in the 20's people said the

irish were drunks. the italians were stupid. jewsere obnoxio. we have old ads, no irish need apply. >> what's the point? >> people have always said these immigrants are going to take welfare. >> pointed out irish and italian. i have not pointed out and that the city since i have been sitting here. john: there has always been an anti-immigrant attitudes. she works for an organization where people donate money, lots and lots of money. a vy rich people. but i and stand that americans right now are hurng. they are hurting because they cannot find jobs. i'm not saying stop all immigratn. and sank ia slowdown. catch our breath, get americans baak to w work. let's make sure that george kane does not haveo save you from a building. >> o of the main arguments

made by the founders against king george is tt hend the illegal immigration to the country. americans founders sought emigration a aromise tha anyone could come here. john: holding the declarati of inpendce. you can get them freed. than you. th that in mind i should say that i would not be here today. today's immigration laws are in effect when my prents came here. that is next. ♪

♪ john: i sure hope that congress is new emigration proposal will do some good because whenever you think the rules should be, it isot good for america when millions of people live here ii secret. that means they don't report crimes to police, oftenon't pay taxes. the neighborhoods where lots of people have no papers,t's easier for criminals to he their let bring the illegals out of the shadows. in sayg that, though, i coradict onef my heroes,he great ecomist milton friedman who once said of mexican immigration, it is better ift is illegal because as lon as it is illlgal for peoeople oome, they don't qualify for welfare d social security. they migrate to jobs which raises a conadictionhat we libertarians face. i believe in open borders when products and ideasnd people are free to move every where.

the whole world benefs. during america's firstundred years open immigrati helped make arica rich. no american is a welfare state. me people do come here just a free love which is a big problem 7 billion people on eth and most of vy poo. inome emigrants want to kill us which is a biggerroblem. we need rulesand borr control. but policing illegal immigration would much easie if we dd not have so many laws and such restrictive laws. if ten or 12 million people are here illegally, how could authorities possibly focus on the ones we should worry about? let's lighten up on the res, he's the immigration quotas. father was an immigrant to came here from gmann because he ted toork and did work. eventually built a tell-all factory that employs 100 people making tells like these. was good for america. odds are heould notot beble to

come here today. the rules are ch me complex and difficu. people say foreigners should just get in line andome here legally, but that line is brutal reason magazine cartoonries to illustrated. my father onlyad to pass a literacy ttst. now comter pgrammer from india will have to wait an average 11ears to get a vis. for others the rules are even more complex and the wait longer. is webte asks you questions to determine if your answers would be allowed to america today. i answer them fro my father and learned there is no pass for people likeim, except the lottery where the odds are really bad. no wonder so many people sneak into america. but creing a blackkmarket in people mes problems wse. peop want t come here to work. we ought to let them.3 imgrants are people with the ambition to my guts to leave their homes, to psue the american dream.

there are special people, and we should let most of them in. that is ourhow. thank you for watching. ♪ [dave gentry] hello, i'm dave gentry. welcome to "small stocks and big money" [intro music] [intro music] [intro music] [intro music] [dave gentry] for 20 years we've been in the business ofloh companies before they show up on wall street's radar screen. erica is a land of small companies, small businesses. did you know small businesses make up more than 99.7% of all emplers? small business create more th 50% of the non-