have for yu today. have a great weekend and happy happy father's day. "the willis report" is coming u. no laws microphon was removed, thht is coming tomorrow. goody. ♪ >> still coming across by the hundreds and thousands. john: iilegal immigration is down, but people still sneak and plexuses a pretty good-sized told. i am dissing this. >> it does not matter how high offenses. johnwe need to seal our borders. >> god our borders, protecting the meland. >> illegals steal american jobs. john: if immigrants are such up problem what is canada's immigration by blboards in america. >> we will take it. >> the fight o the american dream. that is our show tonight. ♪

>> andow john stossel john: my parents we bor in germy and could not find work in europe,,so ttey came here to america, people around the world america is the dream. as a libertarian i say, let people come, let the man. there shoulde free trade and lar as well as goods and services because that leaves everoe more free and rich. except how can you let everyone anand if some of them want to rder arrt? and sin america is a welfa state,omeoneo come here. america's answ has been, well, we will let some people in legay, but we should seal the border to keep undesirles out. we rectly snt billions to put up the giants' offense on the xican border. how is that working out? special corporation -- special corresndent just went tohe uthe border with califoonia assemblyman. a former memb of the minutemen

, one of the volunteer groups tt started their own border patrol's to try to help stop illegalmmigration. >> caught between two government so many politicians pontifite. john: the border fence to not cover the oldorder. >> a smart smuggler is not going to go to where the security is. he will take the wk spot. john: lots of weak sts like this and grded tnel that led him what mexico. >> you are in mexico now. y're in violation. hn: even where there was fans, people vetiver. they bring laddersik this one we found lying rhtex to the fans', they cut holes in the fence. this one has been passed, but it does not matter how high fences if you can cut holes in it. john: many illegals are cght

sneakiking through, the are sent back to mexico, many mia the sneak back to america. it is where the jobs are, this maays. >> ne, two, three, four, five times. john: four years ler, fewer cross illegally bause the mexin economy has done better. we build bigger, stronger fences. john: as the border patrol now we are here? >> oh, yes. john: an hr later they showed up. >>ilming a sment. i iend donald -- ten donnelly. john: after that the lef them alone. once more fces. is this your ideal fans? >> this is good. it forces peopleho want to uggle something too t to a highoint where law-enforcemement border patrol agents can easily see ey have been interdicted. we oug to secure it. john: a problem with t current fans. >> here is this biggeffective

mitidce. impervious, scalable. then all the sudden it just has. this right here is absurd. >> d despite the billions we hae spent, there are still lots of balls in theence. especially the older pt. >> this looks like a prett good-sed already your. >> this is an area that we have volunteers who ce down with a weldg track and wl that u these holes. i mean, it is patchwork. >> i'm touching mexico. john: not thatard to get or the fence. drug dealers build ramps. this car happens to get stuck. kennedy found it was pretty easy to climb the fence. >> you could totally get over this. john: in fact, there were >> pointy. >> easiir to cross from the other side.

jjhn: thank y for going there and clearly there are problems with bothounds. but proponents of the wall say, hey, this deters people. this keeps a lotf people out. >> not really because there are only 33 percent of the borde that is actually protected by so kind ofencing. as you saw, -- john: suspe atowntown every 2,000 miles in the mexican bord. >> just the southern border. john: the other part i harder to get to, mountainous. >> it is mountainous, boris. there were holes allver the part of t fence that we saw. arizona, texas, you're going to see the same thing. it is the -- chain is only as strong as its weakest link. the chain i only effective as piol. john: ts is the age of cool, azing technology. i would think wh drones, the cameras, president bush foundt a virtual fans. >> he did promise a virtual

fans, but it was costly, still requires a lot of bder patrol maower. john: they give up on it. they did. it was costing blions of dollars. the gao, a general accounting office issued several skating reports abouthe virtu fans because it was a boondoge, pensive and it wasnough time to work andtill require just as much if n not more manwer. jo: they cld spend more, but mostf theeople who sneak in the country now, 40%. >> forty to 50%. forty to 50 percent of the people like him into this country and stayed illegally are here on student vis. jo: illegal visas and then just she was thereeady in the country. >> they hang o and stay past their visa stamp date. john: all wall does not solve the problem. than you. currently congress is working on an immigration reform bill. many people are optimistic that there will come and it , but agreent and an easier path to citizenship.

i, or one, u they do. many conservatives a nervous. for yrs they wand more done about thht stream of peopl crossing t border. >> wcannot shut that off unless wbuild a fence and a wall i want to put all wall in. i designed one. >> a little bit of wire on top to provide. put a letter there. @% can ao electrify this wire. the kind of current that would no kill somebody the simply be a discouraging for theto be fooling aroun. livestock all t time. hn: immigration problem should improve,e says. >> you can take it back now. if somehow they got their economy working and got their laws working and in mexico we could pull this backnd just as ealy as reported in. hn: former psidential candidate in colado coressman, more security and wants other measus to deter illegal immigration. congressman, thank you for joining espirito woulyou do? we showed the holes the wall..3

that does not look ke the answer to me. >> i isn't. and the repter is absolutely rrect when she says it is only as good as its weakest link. there are some places where therare not at all. its almost a joke. for the most part i is done for the purpose offand coming to thh congress and the american people and sing, we snt hundreds o millions of dollars on the border. itsow secure. the fact is, you can spend hundredsf millions of dollars on the border and is still not will be secure. he is what cane done. all you have to do his mandate and then enforce e-rarefy. the mandated for eveey sine employee. they have to simply take social security. adelle on line and it tas two minutes of the most. d.c. the person wanting a job, let they're social security number and put it and because bat-to-bat.

i don't know what's wrong with it. the number is bad. if you do that, if you mandate and un force to iortant things , e-verify. most of this problem goes away. you say enfce. jo: meaning that somebody would punish the business that hires someoneithout using e-verify. >> correct. or if they use it,ven if they use it and still hire a person who is coming back with the wrong social security number, that could be a violation and after enforce it. john: this sounds very appealin just one computer database where you can check. but you are a cservative. you don trust the government. whyould yourust them to run e-verify correctly? >> well, right now about 250,000 businesses use it. they use it on a vuntary basis. it is a relatively easy thing to do.

we require businesses to do all kinds of things in terms of hiring practices. this is probably the easiest step in the process. a simple ery into a database. righ now is like 98 percent curate or better. john: think about that, 98 percent. 98 percent accurate sounds pretty good. and it a gao audit into dozen 11 found it was even better. 99 percent accuracy. but that means about 450,000 people who are legit get flagged as illegal. that is aul. >> first of all, ey d't get the job is the issue. u know what, this is not 100 percent. it is n 100 percent.

@%t it jt depen. you want an answer? thats my question. you actually want to do mething about it all wld you rather have, as you said, labor force that is affected only by rkets? demand. people come. the wwge rates and lowered becaususe they're is a t of demand. be it. john what's wrong with tt? >> well, what is wrong with i okay. how about the millions of americans w wage rates are pressed andr the people who are displaced. the empyer like that and a lot of consumers would liket, but the wkers are oing to be negavelyffected. john: what about the americans to do have just because their work for gloria who were the businesses created by emigrants.

>> let tm keep working. imgrants, we are not trying to stop every immigrant from coming into the country. why not take in that we need desperaty people comingn with capital to actuall do exactly what y said, invest in business. people coming in with skills that we need. right now we don't need a lot of people with low skills and low wage rates. they a just not necessary. john: i'm going to talk later in the show about age one be visas whic is for skilled workers. you callethem fraudulent. >> they are. john: h1 be visas were originally designed for the person thatas unique undering -- unique qualifications nowhere else in theorld can we find that person. that it -- that is what it was degned for. john: nowhere else in the wor? >> yes. i'm sorry. no one in thunited states defined person with that qualification.

what it has turn into unfortunately,gain, lot of the oddest that you referred to earlier have identified the problem. they're now beinus to bring people in o have skills but will work foresshan people who are presentlymployed in the united states. john: people in america are jt as skilled and could take the people from india, the computer engineerarnot better. >> in the of the institutions of higher eduation. are you really not turni out anybody that has these particular skills? it will tell you all the time thathey are but they are in direct up -- competition. john: a lot of the graauate students are from chinand india. they are skilled, but they're not americans. we bri them over and give them a collegducation and then t them out. >> that's right.

if we need a particular sll immigration policy should reflect that. >> of demand. let them work. john: the oside of the economy. thank you. coming up,he debate on whether immigration is given a bad for americ more on that. and more on socl networking.

♪ john: feeling one of these? cleanining our studio floor. the company that t made it was stted by a immigrant, one of thousands. we allowed some skied entrepreneurs in. and that is why we need to let more feigners into the u.s. the consumer electronics association. so, your gup runs this masve show in las vegas were allf these tech entrepreneurs show off thistuff. you canan really see the emigra? >> absolutely. 000 companies that are extending to 150,000 people from around the world. many are pursuing the american

dream. they have an idea and now ey can get funding to partnerships, retail and media coverage. john: they come re because theyant to network in silicon valley and stuff happens. >> absolely. i go around the world and every one step th like america because we're thebest in the world. detracted be and brightest. every country should have a strategy nd immigration. we lost ours. we set upur borders, and it's hurting as. john: what do you mean we shot of our borders? >> we are discouraging people from coming here. very difficult. wh they become students they get their pcs and we keep tm out. is a crime. john: kicng them out as the weird part. we pay for their education. help them pay for it. and tn i know w have thse h1b visas where we let high-skilled people and, 85,000 year. >> we need more because that allocation buildup in a few

days. john: a few days. >> if you days. in the long run is a specialized jobs that cannot be filled by americans which is why companies are looking for thousands of ople which is why they go invest overseas between the tax laws a the immigra laws. forcing our best companies higher overseas. john: we have amerin engineers to could do these jobs. >> we he some, but not all engineers and software people of the same. this is like the deficit inhe nband high-school basketball. america is a land where we want the best and brightest we want top from around the world. the rest of the world use to come here. australia, canada, new zealand, europe, they're all saying we will go after the best and brightest. $7 billion per year to research and american universities. a lot of that is done by foreign students in science, technology, engineering, math.

jimmy kick them out when they get a p hn: on that note, give us some of these. these quotas limit the number. so complex, so much so that canada is paying for billboards like this one have a h1b problems? pivot to canada. themmigration, even went to california jyhris meyer workers. >> they need immigrationawyers to figure out how to keep their status will they're trying to stara business and create jobs we give you green card to take a few months to ocess that. hn: something called the start of the sow with the applicant, 200,000 from a canadian venture-capitalist. 75,000 from a canadian angel investor group. if he c speak french or english you c go to canada. >> these are immigrants better job creators that i an immor thing to remember. we are the most heterogeneous company in t boroughs, our diversity, different points of

view that give us that edge. compared to asian countries were everyone agrees. theyack innovation. the chinese have a goal. but they are not -- that is part of their pln. that is what they're trying to do, and it is something which does not make any sense because what it really takes is a culture which is why there are over 200. john: an argument? >> i tell you200,000 chinese stents increasingly tender ages because they don't know how to teach kids. we atheir kids, they start. john: in america. >> right. in chinese they do our culture is rig and no laws are wrong. john: 200,0 from venture-capital is, 75 from an angel. >> easier to get venture-capitau don't want people coming year. it requires a significant investnt. john: and it is harder now than they used to be for an immigrant totart a business.

>> charter because so many people want to. weade it much more difficult. we don't treat people as well as they used to. we have comtition ande have gher corporate taxes. a lot of things are working agaist this in the long term and we have to change as a countr of one to succeed because other countries now are doing will we're doi. we are notetting the best and brightest. i have seen harvard ph.d. to tears in their eyes being kicke out of the country. they want to stay here and hire people and get jobs and start. john: thank you. gary shapiro. you can learn more about what he says from this book, the come back, how innation will restore the american dream. i sure hope the american dream is still there and does not need total restoring, what wall might to avoid america's beaucracy and immigration restrictions might be to start eat your own country right off of america's

coast on may be a cruise ship this one. my nextuest plans to do that. ♪

♪ john: my last guestomplains it is too hard for skilled immigrants to illegally work he. so if politicians won't allow engineers and physicists then, here is another aroach, start your own business. 12 mes off the coast of california outside the reach of american immigration control. that is actually the plan of a group called bluesy, founders are max mart and dario. so what are you going to do? >> we are creating a community 12 miles off the coast of the san francisco bay area to allow entrepreneurs from all around the world to com there, live and work on their start-ups, brand new early stage companies. john: on a cruise ship.

>> is on a cruise ship that will be essentially stationery 12 miles off the coast. john: the coast of f san ancisco because that is where the yacht to printers want to be >> this is the place where silicon vaey is, san francisco bay. this is one of the best locations anywhere in the wld to start and grow businesses in the high-tech sector especially. so this is the mec for entrepreneurs, and many have hard time cing to this awesome place that silicon valley is because of the restrictions that the place -- face. they're entrepreneurs of one to create jobs and paradoxically they have hard time coming in. john: 12 miles off the coast you're free to do what you want independent of the government? >> you are outside -- legal the outside of the u.s. regulatory regi to mouse out of the federalovernment, things like the sec, regulations, things like that. john: lots of companies have

expressed interest. >> more than 414 companies expressed -- expec interest. so the demand is clearly not a problem because so many companies are frustrated with their current regulatory regime that they're faced wh t. john: and people are already giving you money? what would cost? >> you have to rt the cruise ship, paper things that the crew on board, moving provisions ck-and-for. it's a pretty big operation that will cost about 27 million to be dealt and certain operations. so far we haveaised a small seed fund and a silicon valley, of 400,000 have another 9 miion reserved for investors in silicon valy, looking f the raining 18. and we are looking for the remaing 18 sets get going. john originallyou planned to

us look athe picture here, build the whole city held in the ocean. that would have been with lings. why did you drop that? >> the current solution is muc more cost-effective. one version of this. we would like to start with some more lean ca achieve version that will g the job done. jo: you are an immigrant. >> i am myself. john: you went rough the process. was a tortu? >> actually myself i came here out of political asylum, so the process -- hn year from bosnia. >> number bosnia. gracious enough to extendeases to me and my family. and as anmmigrant and i can tell you from a personal perspective that ii made a huge difference being here, having an oprtunity this. and it can be seen as my wayf paying back that opportunity that i have been gen.

basically alike ften lead to others. many of them are as ambitious or more so than i am. smarter than i am. so this notion of the american dreais definitely somethin that on a personal lev i believe in becausehat's it. john: and a your parents were immigrants. >> they came out --ame over when castro took power in cuba. now they themselves entrepreneurs. they have a small medical business in miami. john: something that is different. >> i think they are a self select bunch. a pson who is actually willing to leave everything that they have, their families, go somewhere else, they want to change their lives. there are more likely tbe a person who is polk -- pro-active about eating a feature for the families and lives lost get your. >> it is important to mention that this oath country was founded by emigrants. the american dna, not justhe recent ones. the whole country has this and

epreneurial dna because of the fact that people moved. countries across the oces. so i think thi story has -- it is an old one. so i see myself as just a part of it come a continuation of the same story. john: thank you. coming up, debate on whether immigration takes jobs for amerrcans. we touched on that earlier. next, she is one of america's coolest young entrepreneur is. she says bng an immigrant is part of what ade her an entrepreneur. ♪

♪ john: beforee return to the dete over immigration, let's celebrate the success story. 40 perce of america's biggest compans were found by immigrants or their children.

apple, budweiser, colgate, ibm, mcdonald's. in t high-tech field it is 60%. well, a new company may be the next monster success. i don't know, but she is already earning millions commandg a magazine called one of america's coolest young entrepreneurs. >> i don't know why one caught but i believe that i workard and. i like making things happen. john:our company is this and marketing group.. you advise companies. >> t marketing, fl-service marketing firm. john: and you went to school. you came here when you were a years old. >> nine years old. john: ni years old. your fatherrove a cab and your mom or to attractny shop. >> my parents left very -- a very successful family business beckham.

it worked very hard. i went from having lots of amily surrounding me and being gutted on t being a lchkey kid. i was responsible for my and your sisr. i had to make sure she was fed save, got off from school locate . my parents worked full-time.. so whenever, as long as she was okay. that's it. john: issue ave? >> successful, driving, so i did something right. -ohn and were you awa of your parents wook ethic as a kid? there were may be dferent from the parents and the other kids in the school. >> definitely. my parents worked much harder than some of the parents. there would wake up early, come on leaded night. they were grateful to be he that they were willing to work hardand i never saw them complain. my dad worked ridiculously long hours, but i neveraw him s

this is too tough. he just kind of embrace of that was the meaning of life. john: how are you different f fm our american beers? @% the general sense of enttilement that my generation often gets blamed goods. a little different than that because i saw what i didn't have. compared to what i do have. a much more grateful thing that some of my peers in that it not expect anything to be handed to me. errant when the recession h riyadh graduated and there were no jobs in the market. certainly my industry did not exis. it took me sometime, but i went out there and started my own thing. i a a lot of peers who graduated with me here still don't have jobs who are living withheir parents. john: they went to companies in return down. you, instead, started yourwn thing. you tried. went to compies andaid, expand this thing calle twitter. th said -- >> they said you're crazy.

this is social media is aadit d. very early. so w decided you reallydn't have much to lose. and a some of parents in skynyrd facile nothing and built something bstantial. i knew it coulde done. john30 people working for you. americans. >> yes. john: a book, the zen of social media marketing. >> thas right. john: zen about the constant tweeting. >> is out to work with social media. so the essence is people want have conversations. th're loing for quality information. they're looking for customer service. lookintoonnect. if you work with that rather than against it with -- which is the traditional way to market. draw message out there. instead, if you really work with sociallmia, kind of look at whyhese tools are created and go with the flow, it's a mh more is in likexperience. john: good luck.

have you become a billn dollar company. >>hank you. john: thank you. next people like curt, emigrants, steal our jobs. several ad campaign say that they do. >> mass emigration

♪

john: polls show most americans aren't -- thank arrogance take away american jobs and then some cases they do. and we see ads like ts. >> and other american h lost his job. another breadwinner going home with the bad news. last year to a half million erica's lolost jobs. high-tech construction and auto workers. with millions of jobless, o government is still bringing in a million have borne workers a year to take american jobs. john: that sounds terrible, and its just intuitive. that means there are fewer jobs left for americans. and it really bothers ese people who did found standing in line and an unemployment office >> is going to make it worse than it already is. >> i'm about making it over your

firsbefore we te care of someone else. john: interviewing as people for a documentary he has made called they come tomerica. dennis says too much immigration harms american. studying immigration at the cato institutand said that prevailingisdom is crazy. th more immigraon the better. why? it is logical that they're tak on america's jobs. >> t aixed numbe of jobs in the economy. the more people that weave come t an area, attract to an area for job opportunities. was there arey create jobs by being consumerist among being enreneurs, having diffent skills than americans. they work together for amerins and the job market. what we see alaingly, and minister of american hisry, they come when there are jobs, don'tt there aren't john: they create jobs. shaking your head and leaning

away from them. you will see. the people are not actors. and there are 20, maybe 30 million moreeople like them to grab my hand and say please tossup what you are doing because i cannot jud job because they're being given to people with temporary visas. t onc did you mentionhe unemploynt rate in this country. amicans e hurting, john. they're hurting. people re taking their jobs. >> but are they hurting because ofmmigration? we into the people waiting in the unemployment line. there are noobs of there. john: we even -- hear me out. we went around and found within twours, within a few blocks of this on a point of this 40 jobs, 28 for beginners. i think the emigrants try harder >> try harder at what?

ote the hideout think he crossed the rio grande. you watch my films and see hundreds of guy standing in the corner waiting to get picked up to buildheir roofs oro put in windows were to pai the home. meanwhile, good for them. well, the last time i cck a lot of americans, construction workers, who want to do those jobs. >> the last line of argumt only makes sse if youhink people are a liability in an ast. every single point he made could be made against having more americans. this man, and i don't begrudge him, but he is part of the think tank. we have enough thiers. if i had it taken away call it do tank. i am out there doing. i am meeting wit these people. i am going down to the border. if you saw what saw coming across the borr, little seent the you had the frrnt was nice. it was cute,ut thais our people are coming. i he seen men with machine

guns crossing over into the united states o of america with0 people at a cp. @%u to the right and see a guy from the middle eas i findcience. i couldive you the pictures off. signs written in chinese. >> every argument he is making is an argument for increasing legal immigration in allooing people to come in through the legal sysm so thecan get back project and getn welfare. >> that's not true. >> i studied. >> you can study all you want. there's a difference. >> you don't know what you're talking about? oh, i don't? okay. i have had busses, many of them. don't want to here about americans will work hard. >> first of all, let me finish this point. very important. john: finish your point. >> and not against immigration i love immigtion. i hire people through vises. but they're is a difference.

we are takininto many people ght now, throwing americans under the bus. john:he same as saying i'm agains the people beingorn. it is an anti person argument. >> it is not an anti person argument. >> having pele come. he's making it an anti welfare argument. it's great if he made an antimmigrant argument, but every argunt he is using his one is the welfare state, and am in favor. we like reali in data. agassi's 42% less. >> then make the same arguments you d. [inaudible conversations] >> you need to know more about your history. john: too much at the same time.

in the 20's people said the irish were drunks. the italians weretupid. jews were obnoxious. we have old ads, no irish need apply. >> what's e point? >> people have always said these migrants are going to take welfare. pointed out iri and italian. i have not pointed out and that the city since i have been sitting here. john: there has always been an anti-immigrant attitudes >> she works for an organization where pele donate money, lots and lots of money. a very rich people. but i and a sta that americans right now are hurting. they are hurting because they cannot fd jobs. i'm not saying stop all immiation. and sank in a slowdown. catch our breath, get amecans baak to work. let's make sure that george kane does not have to se you from a building. >> one of t main arguments

made by the founders against king george is that he and t illegaimmigration to the country americans foundersought emigration as a promise that anyone could come here. john: holng the declaration of independence. you can get them freed. thank you. with tht in mind i should say that i would not be here today. day's immigration laws are in effect when my parents came here. that is next. ♪

♪ john: i sure hope that congress is new emigration propol will do some good because whenever you thinkhe rules should b, it is not good for america when millions of people live here ii secret. that means they don't report crimes to police, often don't pay taxes. the neighborhoods where lots of people have no paps, it's easier for criminals to hide their let's bring the illegals out of the shadows in saying that, though, i contradict one of my heroes, the great econost, milton friedman who once sa of mexican immigration, it is better if it is illegal because as long as it is illlgal for people to come, they don qualify for welfare and social security. they migrate to jobs which raises a contradiction that we libertarians face. i believe in open borders when products and ideas and people are free to move every where.

the whole world benefits. during america's first hundred years open immigration helped make ameri rich. now american is a welfare sta. some people do come here jt a free love which is a big problem 7 billion people on earth and most of very poor. in some emigrants want to kill us which ia biggerroblem. need rules, and border control. but policing illegal immigration uld be much easier if we did not have so many laws and such restrictive laws. if ten or 12 million people are here illegally, how could authoritie possibly focus on the ones we should worry abo? let's lighten up on the rules, he's the immration quotas. my father was anmmigrant to came here from germann because he anted to work and did work. he eventuay built a tl-l factory that employs 100 people mang tells like these. he was good for america. odds are he would not be able to

come here today. the rules are much more complex and difficult. people say foreigners hould just get in line and ce here legally but that line is brutal reason magazine cartoon tries to illustrated. my father only had to pass a literacy ttst. now a computer programmer from india ll have to wait an average 11 years to get a visa. for others the rules are even more complex and the wait longer. this website asks you questions to deterne if your answers would be allowed to america today. i answer them from my father and learned there is no pass for people like him, exct the lottery where the odds are really bad. no wonder so man people sneak into america. but creating a blackkmarket in people makes problems worse. people want to come here to wo. we ought to let them.3 immigrants are people with the ambiti to my guts to leave their homes, to pursue the american dream.

there are speal people, and we shld let most of them in that is our show. thank you for watching. ♪ next. gerri: thankou for joining us. tonight on "the wiis report." %-veterans waiting for benefits. one of our heroes is here tonight to shae his story. and young americans saying no to cred cards. and new concernssfor yog athletes. we are watching out for you tonight on "the willis report." gerri: we wi have the latest on our