ht is coming tomorrow. goodbyy. ♪ >> still coming across by the hundreds and thoands. john: iilal immigration is down, but people still sneak and plexuses a pretty good-sized told. i am dissing this. >> it does not matter how high offenses. john: need to seal our borders. >> god our borders, protecting the homeland. >> iegals steal american jobs. john: if immigrants are such up problem what is canada's immigratio by billboards in america. >> we will take it. the fight of the arican dream. that is our show tonight. ♪

>>nd now john stossel. john: my paren wereorn in germany andld not find work in europe,,so ty cme here to america, people around the world amica is the dream. as a libertaan i say, let people cme, let the man. there should be free trade and labor as wel as goods and services because that leaves everoe more freend rich. except how can you let everyone and if some of them want to murder arrest? andince america is a welfare state, someone to come here. america's answer has been, well, we will let some people i legally, but we should seal the border to keep undesirables out. we recently spent billions to put up the giants' offense on the mexican border. how is that working out? special corporation -- special correspondent just went to the southern border with califnia assemblyman. a former member of the minutemen

, one of the volunteer groups that started their own border patrol's to try to help stop illegal immigration. >> caught betwn two gornments. so many politicians ptificate. john: the border fence to not coverhe old border. >> as smart smuggler is not going to go to wre the security is. he will takehe weak spot. john: lots of weak spots like this and guarded tunnel that led him wha to mexico. >> you are in mexico now. you're in violation. john: even where there was fans, people vetiver. they bring ladders like this one we found lying right next to the fans', they cut holes i the fence. this one has been passed, but it do not matter how high fences if you cut holes in it. john: many illegals are caught

sneaking through, they are sent back to mexico, man med the sneaback to america. it is where the jobs are, this man says. >> ne, two, three, four, five times. john: four years later, fewer cross illegally because the mexican economy has done better. we build bigger, stronger fences. john: as the border patrol now we are here? >> oh, yes. john: an hour later they showed up. >> filming a segment. i intend donald -- ten donnelly. john: after that the left them one. once more fences. >> is this your ideal fans? >> ts is good. it forces people w wantt to smuggle something to go to a high point where law-enforcement border patrol ents can easil see they have been interdicted. we ought t secure it. john: a problem with the current fans. >> here is this biggeffective

miti dance. impervious, scalable. then all the suddenn it just hands. is right here is absurd. >> despite the billions we have spent, there are still lots of balls in the fen. especially the older part. >> ts looks like a pretty good-sized already your. >> this is an area that we have volunteers who came down with welding track and well that up these holes. i mean, it is patchwo. >> i'm touching mexico. john: not that hard to get over the fence. drug dealers build ramps. this carappens to get stuck. kennedy found it was pretty easy to climb the fence. >>ou could totally get over this. john: in fact, there were >> pointy. >> easiir to cross from the other side.

jjhn: thank you for going there and clely there are problems with both sounds. but proponents of the wall say, hey, this deters people.e. this keeps a lot of people out. only 33 percent of the borderre that is actuayrotected by some kind of fencing. as you saw, -- john: suspect at downtown every 2,000 miles in the mexican border. >> just the southern border. john: the other part is harder to get to, mountainous. >> it is mountainous, bor. there were holes all or the part of theence that we saw. arizona, texas, you're going to see the same thing. it is the -- chains only as strong as its weakest link. the chain is only effective as pistol. john: this is the age of cool, amazing technology. i would think wh drones, the cameras, presint bush fnd it a viral fans. >> he did promise a virtual

fans, but it was costly, still requires a lot of border patrol manpower. john: they givep on it. >> they did. it was costing billions of dollars. the gao, a general accounting office issued several skating reports about the virtual fans because it was a boondoggle, too expensive andt was enough time to work and still require jus as much i not more mpower. john: they could spend more, but most o the people who sneak in the country now, 40% >> forty to 50%. forty to 50 percent of the pele like him into this country and stayed illegally are here on student visas. john: illegal visas and then just she was there already in th country. >> they hang out and stay past their visa stamp date. john: all wall does not solve the problem. thank you. currently congress is working on an immigration reform bill. many people are optimistic that there will come up and it , but an agrment and an easier path to citizenship.

i, foror one, up they do. many conservatives are nervous. for years they wanted more done about thht stream of people crossing the border. >> we cannot shut that off unless we build a fence and a wall. i want to put all wall in. i designed. >> a little bit of wire on top to provide. put a letterhere. @% can also elerify this wire. the kind of current that would not kill someby the simpl be a discouraging for them to be fooling around. livestock all the time. john: immigrationroblem should improve, he says. >> you can take it back now. if somehow ty got their economy working and got the laws working and in mexico we coulpull this back and just as easily as reported i. john:: former presidential candidate in colorado congressman, more security and wants other measures to deter ilgal immigration. congressman, tnk you for joining espirito would you do? we showed the holes in the wall3

that does not look like the answer to me. >> it isn't. andhe reporter is absolutely correct when she says is only as good as its weakest lk. there are some places where there are not at all. is almost a joke. for the most part it is done for the purse offand cing to thh congress and themerican people and saying, we spent hundreds of miions of dollars on the border. it i now secure. the facts, youan spend hundreds of millions of dollars on the border and is still not ll be secure. here is what can be done. all you have to do his mandate and then enforce e-rarefy. the mandated for eey single emoyee. they have to simply take social security. adelle on line and it takes two minutes of the most. d.c. the person wanting a job let they're social security number and put it and because bat-to-bat.

i don't know what's wrong with it. the number is bad. if you do that, if youandate and un force to important things , e-verify. most of this oblem goes ay. you say enforce. john: meaning th somebody would punish the business that hires someone witho using e-verify. >> correct. or ith use it, even if they use it and still hire a person whos coming back with the wrong social security number, that could be a violation and after enforce it. john: this sounds very appealing. just one computer database where you can check. but youre a conservative. you don't trust the government. why would you trust them to run e-verify correctly? >> well, right now about 250,000 businesses use it. they use it on a voluntary basis. it is a relively easy thing to do.

we require businesses to do all kinds of tngs in terms of hiring practices. this is probably the easiest step in the process. a simplentry into a database. right now is like 98 percent accute or better. jo: think about that, 98 percent. 98 percent accurate sous pretty good. and it a gao audit into dozen 11 fod it was even better. 99 percent accuracy. but that means abo 450,000 people who are legitet flagged as illegal. that is awful. >> first of all, they don't get th job is t issue. you know what, this is not 100 percent. its not00 percent.

but it just depends. you want an answer? that is my questio. u actually want to do something about it all wld you rather have, as youaid, labor rce that is affected only b markets? demand. people come. the wwge rates and lowered because they're is a lot of demand. be it. john: what'srong with that? >> well, what is wrong with it? okay. how about the millions of americans whose wage rates are depressed and/or the people who are dislaced. the emplor like that d a lot of conmers would like it,ut the workers are oing to be negative affected. john: what about the americans to dhave just because their work for glori who werehese businesses created by emigrants.

>> let them keep wororking. immigrants, we are not trying to stop every immigrant from coming into the country. why not takin that we need desperately, people coming in with capital to actually do exactly what you said, invest in business. pele coming in with skills3 that we need. right now we don't need a lot of people with low skills and low wage rates they are just not necessary. john: i'm going to talk later in the sw about age one be visas which is for skilled workers. you called them fraudulent. >> they are. john: h1 be visas were originally designed for the person that has unique underlying -- unique qualifications nowhere else in the world can we find thaterson. that i -- that is what it was designed for. john: nowhere else in the world? >> yes. i'm sorry. no one in the united states defined person with that

qualification. what it has turned into unfortunatel again, lot of the oddest that you referred to earlier have identified the problem. they're now being used to bring people in who have skills but will worfor les than people who a presently employed in the united states. john: people in america are just as skilled and could take the people from india, the computer engineers are not bette >> in t of the institutions of higher education. are you really not turning out anybody that has these particular slls? it will tell you all the time that they are, but they are in direct up -- competition. john: a lot of the graauate students are from china and india. they are skill, but they're not americans. we bring them over and give em a college education and then put them out. >> that's right.

if we need a particular skill immigrtion policy should reflect that. >> of demand. let them work. john: the outside of the ecomy. thank you. coming up, the debate on whether immigration is given a bad for america. more on that. and ren social networking.

♪ john: feeling one of these? cleaning our studio floor. the company that made it was started by an immigrant, one of thousands. we allowed some skilled entrepreneurs in. and that is why we need to let more foreigners into the u.s. the consumer electronics association. so, your group runs this masve @%ow i las veg were all of the tech entrepreneurs show off this stuff. you can really see the emigrant? >> absolutely. 3,000 comnies that are extendg to 150,000 people from around the world. many are pursuing the american

dream. they have idea and now they can get funding to partnerships, retail a media coverage. john: they come here because they want to network in silicon valley and stuff happens. >> absolutely. i go around the world and every one step the like america because we're the best in the world. detracted st and brightest. every countryhould have a strategy nd immigtion we lost ours. we set up our borders, and it's hurting . john: what do you mean we shot of our borders? >> we are discouraging people from coming here. very difficult. when ty become students they get their s and we keep them out. is a crime. john: kicking them out as the ird part. we pay for their education. help them pay f it. and then i know we have these h1b visas where we let high-skied people and, 85,000 year. >> we need me because that allocation buildup in a few

days john: a few days. >> if you das. in the longun is a specialized jobs that cannot be filled by americans which is why companies are looking for thousands of people wch is wh they go invest overseas between the tax laws and the immigration laws. forcing o best companies higher overseas. john: weave american engineers to could do these jobs. >> we have some, but not all engines and software people of the same. this is li the deficit in the nba and high-school basketball. america is a landhere exhibitionism stands out. we want the best and brightest. we want t from around the world. the rest of the world use to come here. australia, canada, new zealand, europe, they're all saying we will go after the best and brightest. $7 billion per year to research and american univeities. a lot of that is don by foreign students in science,echnology, engineering, mat.

jimmy kick them out when they get a ph.d. john: on that note, give u some of these. these quotas limit the numbe so complex, so much so tt canada is paying for billboards like this one. have a h1b problems? pivot to canada. the immigration, even went to california jury chris meyer workers. >> ty need immigration lawyers to figure out how to keep their status wl they're tryi to start a buness and create jobs we give you a green card to tak a few months to process that. john: something called the start of the s with the alicant, 200,000 from a cnadian venture-capital list. 75,000 from a canadian angel investor group. if he canpeak french or english you can go to canada. >> these are immigrants better job creators. that is an immortant thing to remember. we are the most heterogeneous company in he boroughs, our diversity, different points of

view that give us that edge. compared to asian countries were everyone agrees. they lack innovation. the chinese have goal. but they are not -- that ispart ofheir plan. that is what they're tryingo do, andt is something which does not make any sense because what it really takes is a culture which is why there are over 200. john: an argument? >> i tell you, 200,000 chinese students increasingly tenr ages because ty don't know how to teach kids. wes their kids, they start. jo: in america. >> right. in chinese they do our culture is right and no laws are wrong. john: 200,000 from venture-capital is, 75 from an angel. >> easier to get venture-cital probly a picwhere you don't want people coming year. it requires a significant invement. john: and it is harder now than they used to be for an immigrant to start a busins.

>> charter becauseo my people want to. we made it much more difficult. we don treat people as well they used to. we have competion and wee higher corporate tes. a lot of things are working agnst this in the long term and we have to change as a country of one to succeed because other countries now are doing will we're doing. we are not gting the best and brightest. have seen harvard ph.d. to tears in their eyes being kicked out of the country. they want to stay here and hire people and get jobs and start. john: thank you. gary shapiro. you can learn more about what he says from this book, t come back,ow innovion will restorthe american dream. i sure hope the american dream is still there and doe not need total restoring, wha wall mit to avoid arica's bureaucracy and immigration restriction might be to start e your own countr right off of america's

coas on may be a cruise ship like this one. my next guest plans to do that. ♪

♪ john my last guest complains it is too hard for skilled immigrants t legay work here. so if politicia won't allow engineers and physicists then, here is another approach, start your own business. 12 miles off the coast of california outside the reach of american immigration control. that is actually the plan of a grp calledluesy, founders are max marty and dario. so what are you going to d >> we are creating a community 12 miles off the coast of the san francisco bay area to allow entrepreneurs from all around the world to come there, live and work on their start-ups, brand new early stage companies. john: on a cruise ship.

>> is on a cruise ship that will be essentially stationery 12 miles off the coast. john: off the coast of san francio because that is where the yacht to prters wanto be >> this is the place where silicon valley is, san francisco bay. this ione of the best locations anywhere in th world to start and grow businesses in the high-tech sector especially. so this is the mecca for entrepreneurs, and many have hard time coming to this awesome place that silicon valleyy is because of the restrictions that the place -- face. they're entrepreneurs of one to create jobs and paradoxically they have hard ti comin in. john: 12 miles off theoast you're free to do wh you want independent of the government? >> you are outside -- legal the outside of the u.s. regulatory regime to mouse o of the federal government, things like the sec, regulations, things like that. john: lots of companies have

expressed interest. >> me than 414 companies exessed -- expect interest so the demd is clearly n a problem because so many companies are frustrated with eir current regulatory regime that they're faced with the. john: and peoplere already giving you money? what would cost? >> you have to rent the cruise ship, paper tings that the crew on board, moving provisions back-and-forth. it's a pretty big operation tt will cost about 27 million to be dealt a certain operations. so far we have raised a small seed fund and a silicon valley, of 400 have another 9 million reserved for investo in silicon valley, looking for the remaining 18. and we are looking f the remaining 18 sets get going. hn: originally you planned to

us look at the picture here, build the whole city held in the ocean. that would have been with piling. whyid you drop that? >> the current solutn is much more cost-effective. one version of this. we would like to start with some more lean can achieve version that will get the job done. john: you are anmmigigrant. >> i am myself. john: youent through the process. was a torture? >> actually myseli came here out of politic asylum, so the process -- john: year from bosnia. >> number bosnia. gracious enough to extend leases to me and my family. and as an immigrant and i can tell you from personal perspective that ii made a huge difference being here, having an opportunity this. and it cane seen as my way of paying back that opportunity that i have been given.

basically alike ften lead to others. many of them are as ambitious or more so than i am. smarter than i am. so this notion of the american dream is definitely sothing that on a personal level i believe in because that's it. john: and a your parents were immigrants. >> they came out -- came over when castro took power in cuba. now they themselves entrepreneurs. th have a small medical business in miami. john: something that is different. >> think they are a self selected bunch pson who is actually willing to leave everything that they have, their fams, go somewhere else, they want to change their lives. there are more likely to be a person who is polk -- p-active out creating aeatu for the families and lives lost to get . t is important to mention that this oat cntry was founded by emigrants. the american dna, not jus the recent ones. thehole country has this and

enepreneurial d because of the fact that people moved. they had to leave their countries across the oceans. so i think this story has -- it is an old one. so iee myself as just a part of it come a continuation of the same story. john:hank you. coming up,,a debate on whether immigration takes jobs for amerrcans. we touched on tt earlier. next, she is one of ameca's coest young entrepreneur is. she says being anmmigrant is part of what ade her an entrepreneur. ♪

♪ hn: before we return to the debate over immigration, let's celebrate the success story. 40 percent of america's biggest companies were founded by immigrants or thr children.

apple, budweiser colgate,bm, mcdonald's. in the high-tech field it is 60%. well, a new company may be the next monster success. i don't know, but she is already earning millions commanding a magazine called one of america's coolest young entreprenrs. >> i don't know why one caught but i believe that i work hard and. i le making tngs happen. john: your company is this and marketing group. you advise companies. >> the marketing, full-service marketing firm. john: and you went to school. you came here when you were a years old. >> ninyearsld. jo: nine years old. your father drove a cab and your mom or to attract any shop. >> my parents left very -- a very successful family business beckham.

it worked very hard. i went from having lots of family surrounding me andeing gutted on to being a latchkey d. i was responsible for my and your sister. i had to make sure she was fed, ve, got off from school locate . my parents worked fultime. so whenever, as long as she was okay. that's it. john: issue alive? >> successful, driving, so i did something right. -ohn: and were you aware of your parents wook ethic as a kid? there were may b different from the parents andhe other kids in the school. >> definitely. my parents worked much harder thanome of the parents. there would wake up early, come on leaded night. they were grateful to be he that they were willing to work hard, and i never saw the compin. my dad worked ridiculously long hours, b i never s him say this is too tough.

he just kind of embrace of that was the meaning of life. john: how are you different from our america beers? @% the general sense of ttemen that my generation often get blamed goods. a little different than that because i saw what i didn't have. compared to what i do have. a much more grateful thing that some of my peers in that it not expect anything to be handed t me. errant when the recession hit riyadh graduated and there were no jobs in t market. certnly my industry did not exist. it took me sometime, but i went out there and started m own ing. i ave a lot of peers who graduated with me here still don't have jobs who are living with their parents. john: they went to companies in return down. you, instead, started your own thing. you tried. went to companies and said, expand this thing called twitter. they said -- >> they said you're crazy.

this is social media is a fad. it did not get. very early. so we deced you really ddn't have much to lose. and as some ofarents in skynyrd facile nothing and built something substantial. i knew it could beone. john: 30 peoeopl working for yo. americans. >> yes. john: a book, t zen of socl media marketing. >> that's right. john: zen about the constant tweeting. >> is out to work with social media. so the essence is people want have conversations. they're looking for quality informatn. they're looking for customer service. looking to connect. if you work with that rather than again it with -- which is the traditional way to market. draw message out there. instd, if you really work wit sociallmedia, kind of look at why these tools are created and go with the flow, it's a much more is inike experience. john: good luck. have y become a billion ll

company. >> thank you. john: thank you. next, people like curt, emigrants, steal ourobs. several a campaign say that they do. >> mass emigration

♪

john:olls show most americans aren't -- thank arrogance take away american jobs and then some cases they d and we see ads likehis. >> and other arican has lost his job. anothe breadwinner going home with t bad news. last year to a halfillion erica's lost jobs. high-tech construction and auto workers. with millions of jobless, our government i still bringing in a million have borne workers a year to ta american jobs. john: that sounds terrible, and it is just intuitive. that means there are fewer jobs left for americans. and it really bothers these people who did found standing in line andn unemploent office >> is going to make it worse than it already is. >> i'm about making it over your

first befor we take care of someone else. john: interviewing as people for a documentary he has made called they come to america. dennis says too much immigration harms american. studying immigration at the co institute and said that prevailing wisdom is crazy. the more immigraon the better. why? it is logical that they're take on america's jobs. >> not aixed number of jobs in the economy. the more people that we have come to an area, attracted to an area for opportunities. was there are they create jobs by being consumerist among being entrepreneurs, having different skills than americans. they work together for americans and the job market. what we see an alarmingly, and minister of american history, they come when there areobs, don'tt there aren't . john: they create jobs. shakg your head and leaning

away from them. >> you will see. those people are not actors. and there are 20, maybe 30 million more people like them to grab my hand and say please totossup what you are doing because i cannot judge job because they're being given to people with tempora visas. not once did you mention the unemployment rate in this country. americans are hurting, john. they're hurting. ople re taking their jobs. >> but are they hurting becse of immigration? we into the people waiting in the unemployment line. there are no jobs of there. john:e even -- hear me out. we went around and found within two hours, within a few blocks of this on a point of this 40 jobs, 28 for beginners. i think the emigrants try harder >>ry harder at what?

wrote the hideout think he crossed the rio grande. yo watch my films and see hundre of guy standing in the corner waiting to get pickedp to build their roofs or to put indows were to paint the home. meanwhil good for them. well, the last time i checked a lot of americans, construction workers, who w want to do those jobs. >> the last line of argument only makes sense if you think people are a liability in an asset. every single point he made could be made against having more americans. this man, and i don't begrudge him, but he is part of the think tank. we have enough thinkers. i had it taken away call it do tank. i am out there doing. i am meeting with these people. i am going downo the border. if you saw what i saw coming across the border, little segment the you had the frrnt was ni. it was cute, but that is our people are coming. i have seen men with machine

guns crossg over into the united states of america with 60 people at a clip. @%u to the right andee guy from theiddle east. i find science. i could give you the pictures off. signs written in chinese. >> every argument he is making is an aument for increasing legal immigration in allooing people to come in through the legal system so they can get back projects and get on welfare. >> that's not true. >> i studied. >> you c study all you want. there's a difference. >> you don't know what you're talkingbout? oh, i don't? okay. i have had businesses, my of th. don't want to here about americans will wor hard. >> first of all, let me finish this point. very important. john: finish your point. >> and not ainst immigration. i love immigration. i hir people through vises. but there is a difference.

we are taking into many people right now, throwing amerins under the bus. john: the same as saying i'm against the people being born. it is an anti person argument. >> it is not an anti person argument. >> having peoolee. he's making it a anti welfare argument. 's gat if heade an an-immigrant argument, but every argument he s usingis one is the welre state, and i am in fav. we like reality in data. agassi's 42% less. >> then make the same arguments you did. [inaudible conversations you need to know more aut your history. john: too much at the same time.

in the 20's people saidhe irish were drunks. the italians were stupid. jews were obnoxious. we have oldds, no irish need apply. >> whas the point? >> people have always said these immigrants are going to take welfare. >> pointed out iri and italian. i have not pointed outnd that the city since i have been sitting here hn: there has alwayseen an ti-immrant attitudes. >> she works for an organization where people donate money, lot andots of money. a very rich people. but i and a stand that americans right now are hurting. they are hurting because they cannot find jobs. i'm not saying stop all immigrion. and sank in a slowdown. catch r breath, get americans baak to work let's make sure that george ne does not have to save you from building. >> one of the main arguments

made by the founders against king george is that he and the illegal immigration to the country. americans founders sought emigration as a promise that yone could come here. john: holding the declaration of independence. you get them freed. thank you. with that in mind i should say that i would not be here today. today's immigration laws are in effect when my paents came here. that is next. ♪

♪ john: i sure hope that congress is new emigration proposal will do some good because whenever you think the rules should be, it is not good for america when millions of people live here ii secret. that means they don't report crimes to police, often don't pay taxes. the neighborhoods where lots of people have no papers, it's easier for criminalso hide their let's bring the illegals out of the shadows. in saying that, though, i contradict one of my heroes, the great economist, milton friedman who once said of mexican immigration, it is better if it is illegal because as long a it is illlgal for people to come, they don't qualify for welfare and social security. they migrate to jobshich raises a conadiction that we libertarians face. i believe in open borders when products and ideas and people e free to move every where.

the whole world benefits. dung america's first hundred years open immigration hped make america rich. now american is a welfare state. some people do come here just a free love which is a big problem 7 billion people on earth and most of very poor. in some emigrants want to kill us which is a bigger problem. we need rules, an border corol. but policing illegal immigration would be much easier if we did not have so many laws and such restrictive laws. if ten or 12 million people are here illegally, how could authorities possibly cus on the ones we should worry about? t'lighten up on the rules, he's t immigration quotas. my father was an immigrant to me here from germann because he anted to work and did wor he eventuallyuilt a tell-all factory that employs 100 people making tls lik these. he was good for america. odds are he would not be able to

come here today. the rules are much more complex and difficult. people say foreigners should just get ine and come here legally, but that line is btal reason magazine caron tries to illustrated. my father only had to pass a literacy ttst. now a computer programmer from india will have to wait an average 11 years to get a v. for others the rules are even more complex and the wait longer. th website asks you qstions to determine if your answers would be allowed to america today. i answer them from my father and learned there is no pass for people like him, except the lottery where the odds are rely bad. no wonder so many people sneak into america. but creating a blackkmarket in people makes pblems wor. peopleant to come here to work. we ought to let them.3 immiants are people with the ambition to my guts toeave their homes, to pursue the american dream.

ther are special people, and we should let most of them in. that is our show. thank you for watching. ♪ e'e'e'e'e'e'e'e'e'e'e'e'e'e'e'. they say they're snooping to protect us. but as the lawsuits pile up, will this nsa mess end up hurting one of the strongest parts of our struggling economy? hi, eryone, i'm brenda butner. the bulls and bears this week. gary b. ith, toeben smith, jonas, john layfield along with susan ox. welcome to everybody. okay, gary b., you say all this snooping could shock the one part of the economy that's actually growing? how so? >> absolutely, brenda. look, i'm going to call this the nsa tax, if you will. you know, we have the e-commerce segment o our gdp is about