they say they're snoopio protect us. but as the lawsuits pile up, ll this nsa mess end up hurting one of the strongest parts of our struggling economy? hi, everne, i'm brenda butner. the bulls and bears this week. gary b. it eben smith, jonas, john layfield along with susan ox. welcome to verybody. okay, garyb., you say all this snoopincould shock the one part of the economy that's actuay growing? how s >> ablutely,brenda. look, i'm going to call this the nsa tax, if you will. you know, we have the e-commerce segment of o gdp is about $269 illion.

it's growing the fastest o any retail segment that have out there. in fact,t's probably, if you look back over the last few years, really supplied the bulk of the jobs and growth and innovation in the retail sector. if people now are afraid togo online, and they are, i mean, th've been afraid in the past. you know, cred cards and stuff like at. this is only going toxacerbate it. ifat industry starts to shrink, oh,boy, the economy is really going to suffer. >> jonas, you say consumers are goingo get used to it after a lile while. >> i don't think it's going to change shoppi behavior. the other day, you can save 3% on something and go through an unsecured internet connection versus going a store, you're going to take that deal. thataid, there are other parts of the internet which could be burdened by overreach of the government lking out for our security. you know, the whole e-mail, if you stop sending e-mails or do less because you think you' being tched and you sta making phone calls, using faxes -- a lotof companies i have to unfortunately do faxes in many cases becausof security issues with e-mail and

sending applications. it slows down productivity. there's errors, it's blurry. it creates needless use of labor. so you can sow do th efficiency th we get from the interneby leading to a state of paranoia where you think everything is insecure because ome nsa agent is redirecting traffic into their supercomputer somewhere. >> it's not really american consumers you're worried about. you think it may be globally there's going to be this paranoia. >> well,as gary says, absolutely, brenda. the big issue here is that 90% of all the clients, all the customers of facebook or aol or a of these sites, google, are outside the united states. you know, particularly in europe, they have a whole differt ideaabout what personal privacy is. and their idea is a lot more privacy than our united states. if you look at the business growth of those comnies, and remember, every dollar that they create over in, you know, let's say germanyrees $2 or $ of inme over here because of

managent, because of, you know, data centers, et cetera. so i think the biggest iue here is that we've totally disrarded the fact that the internet businesses whicho gary's point are one ofhe fastest growing and high-paying jobs in the country are really a threat tside the nited stes, much more than inside the united states. >> well, susan, you actually think this could be a benefit to theconomy. >> i do. you know, i think we have lost a t of the privacy around rchasing dataalready. and people are comfortable with that. you know, you y something on the internet jonas buys a dog toy on the intern, and th all of a sudden he's saying ads for kibbl pop up. that's because th're comg through your purchasing data and they're suggestingads to you. we've already gotten mfortable with some level of losing that privacy there. when you thinkbou encryption, i think there could be a really strong boom in the crtion services. there are a lot of companies already starting to do this. this is wha americ ingenui looks like. we see a oblem,e find a way

to fix it. >> john, do you think this will impact e economy for the good or bad? >> i don't tnk it's going to be negligible either way. facebook had a lot of problem with beacon. thatas sharing users' data with advertisers so they could target certain users. that really hurt them for a time being. they got over that. look, cloud-sed computing in the united states, you're going to have a fallback. you're already having some of that from corporations overseas and governments overseas. but facebook wasn't going to get into china anyway. and the consumer here -- look, this is li saying the phone companies are going to die because there was wiretapping in watergate. it didn happen then. and pele n realize, look, our gogovernment's been snoong since they first had horses and tin with a stringied betwn it. this is nothing new. i think people realize that. >> we're no talkig about yur college education, john. come on. >> leave thatut of this. >> i want t know how they did that snooping when there was two

cans o either end. was ther a trd can we didn't see in the middle of that line? but in any even you know, jonas ma a good point about the productity. but you know, what he didn't mention is that shopping over e internet -- iwant to come back to this e-commerce point - is a way of improving our productivity. 10% of th people out there id you know what? i'm sick of the spying stuff. i don't trust the internet any longer. i'm not going to buy something on ebay or on amazon i'm going to have to get in my car and drive to the mall. , my gosh. how many people are avoidi the hours you spend doing that, avoid spending the gasoli? i think this could hav a significant impact. > but gary, what is somody doing online when they're buying something that has anything to do with spying or anything to do with terrorism? if you' afraid o th, i'd be much re afraid of going to a restaurant with my credit card d having the waiter or waitress swipe my credit card. it's only happed about ten times. >> i agree with, toby, but do

you think the comm man or woman isable toake that distinction? >> yes, io, as a matter of fact. come on. americans arsmarter th that. >> i'll be honest with you. i don't. i think that they're looki at all the data, all the transactions out there. >> okay. jonas. >> i think you're confusing the ther risk of, like,redit card security when you're shopping with wholesa storage of our data bythe government. now, for example, right now anher thing going on is this cloud computing whicich means you're trying to put all these files and documents and transactions onto the internet. that's a hug wave going on in business. and it could get slowed down. if you thi, well, if i put everybody's file online and en the governmenthas access to it whenever they want, they really can't do that on your own hard drive withoutarrants as easily. whether that's true ornot, it cod lead to that kind of behavior where you slow down the movement of paperwork. talking about the health industry, moving documents online, getting health records online out of paper files. you could get in the way where consumers wouldn't want that necessarily because they perceive the government is creati a honey pot of data

that's open to hackers or whatever by taking it all essentially. >> t horse has left the barn there. >> exactly. corporations already have the honey pot of data. they'relready collecti all f is information on us anyway. don't think consumers will really see an impact. >> to your pont, that's like ps doing local police wrk and there's going to be a boom in burglar detector business. that's probably not a good way to run the country either. i'm trying to make lemonade ut of lemons here. >> remember also they're getting the data rightut of the pipe. it doesn't matter whether y store it on your hard drive or anybody else's. th're getti it right out of the internet. so jonas, i'm sorry. it's been happening. the internet has not slowed down here. over in europe -- >> wait, wait. just to be clr, if i store files on my hard dri on a computer in my office, for example, that's different than on the cloud because now you're talking abut sending it somewherehere it can be interjected by theconsumer's p.r.i.s.m. >> i nderstand. your phone calland your e-mail is the only thing the goment

cares about. they d't care about that weird stuff on your hard drive. >> we'll see where this goes. >> all right, john. >> look, there's reason that toby loses his crit card in restaurant. he drinks a lot of ne and flat leaves it on the table. >> that's another problem, though. how does that build on your point sf >> we don't have to get personal here. oka >> they spy on their people. appareny we spy ours, too. that's not going affec not in my opinion.ks or not, >> thanks, guys. secret meetings over nsa's secret snooping. neil's gang knocking on closed ors and demandg answers. th that'at the bottom of the hour. first, unions blitzi to airwaves and storming d.c. in a major push for migration reform. >> every day that we wait is a daysted and a day that we've lost, a day that the economy won't ow. >> growing the economy or a ploy

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you're watching the most powerful name in news. fox news channel. we need immigration reform now to help the economy. unions launching an ad blitz calling for it. and labor bosses at the white house demanding it. >> it will be good for not only newcomers or immigrants, but it will be good for every worker here. it will be good for business.

it will be good for the economy. and that's why all of us have come together to try to push and get this thing done this year because every day that we wait isis a day wasted and a d that we've lost, a day that the economy won't grow. >> but tom you say the econo has nothing to do with this. >> that clip was an absolute crock. that was one of the most disingenuous things i have ever heard in my life. unions are dying. and that's the reason for this. they were at 40% of the public work force about 30 years ago. they're now at 6.%. there's 7.3 million people accordingo bls in 2012, end of to 1 2012 in unions. you'rere talking about people coming from countries where unions are prevalent. this is 100% political. there's no other way to spin this. this is a matterf survival for these unions. >> susan, you agree with that? is th about growing the enomy or growing the union

base in >> this is absolutely about growing the econom if you look at who else was there at that press conference and at that white house event, it was the head of the u.s. chamber of commerce, tom donahue. if you look at who's been supporting immigration reform, it's all the high-tech companies. businesses are crying out for this reform. they want it because they roh it's going to helphem and the economy. >> there is a big difference in reform for the right reass and what the unions are doing. immigration reform should be done. lot of political leaders do it. to assoate them with unions i think is wrong. >> how can you say your organization whose sole puose is to protect the rights of workerand notimmigratio reform? >> jimmy hoffa. how about that? >> okay, toby. we have some video of unions protesting at may day. they've been doing this for a while. this is a big deal for them. >> well, absolutely. and with all due respect to my dear susan, the high-tech industry is talking about high-tech job qualified immigration where peoples have

high levels of skills, and we need them desperately for our economy. that's not t whathe union's talking about. the union has a poduct to sell. and that product is the promise, thellusion that they're going to help working-class people get higher wages nd more bs. so they now have a whle new group to sell that product to. unfortunately,as mr. laield alludes to, the product doesn't work. you know, yeah, they're looking at a chance to have, you know, new opportunity, new market. but the fact ofhe matte is, it's not going to work any better for them tha the 23 million people who dropped out of unions in the last 30 years. >> jonas, what do you think of at? >> the economy also needs unskilled tech workers that are imgrants. if you saw what happened if they could magically remove all immigrants who were here will leely, you would see how important they are t the economy, too. unionare dying, and they need to grow. most importantly, theyneed to grow it with people in jobs that are not outsourceable to other states like mechanics who-- and

people that can move to another statehere there's no unions. that's why they're also going after fast food woers becaus fast food jobs and farm pickers, they can't move the avocados to alaska or somecheaper place. it has to be where it is. it's th perfect growth area for unions. they can move wages back above minimum wage and ge them in the union. the bosses can't relocate into a no-union area, be it china or the soth. it has a huge growth potential for union membership. >> gary b.? >> well, i think, john, basically summed it up when he said thepeech is a crock. how do we know it's a crock? because just short while ago, unions were against this immigration law. they didn't want the imgrants coming in and taking the jobs until, as a few people have pointed out, they said, huh. wait a second. we have 11 million undomented immigrants that wld be subject to u.s. labor laws including the

right to unionize. nd that's even before they seek permant citizenship. so trumka is saying, wait a second. this is really actually good for us because it inflates our dying le. that's why we know it's a crock. >> okay, susan. >> ok, you know, as i said before, this is an organization who is supposed to be onthe sidef workers. we have a 11 million undocumented workers in this countrtry. because, you know, historically, there haveeen two sides in the labor movement, and thereave been some who have been against t, and there have been some for it. the afl before they merged with the cio hadee pro-immigrtion for a lo time. >> that's got to be the last word. when a car, abike, an ipad, even a concert all r just showing up at school? it's happening. it's happening. and guess

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how much for a certificate? schools a now handing ou for perfect attendance. the l angeles unified school district whichhappenso get money based on attendance is rewarding kids with everything from ipads to cvy sonics just for showing up. and toby, you think it's a a smt idea? >> yes, it's a smart idea. y the way, all schools get paid on attendance, but that's not the issue. the issue is the kids with the best attendance, they have the best graduation rate. if it works, we should do it.

a better idea, in many regions, they say this. if your child does not have a very good attendance record, 98% or higher, then we're going to take your welfare away. it's amazing how well kids attend school whenom and dad welfare check is on the hook. say lt's do it all. >> gary b., they're being rewarded fortaying on their butts in the classroom, not for performance. >> exactly, brenda. look, tobs right. there is a reward, you know, system here going on. and i suppose it does work. here's the problem with it. it's coming out of the taxyers' pocket. i'd rather see a privateystem where the schos have to fail or cceed on their own. why not a voher system? o you think the kids attending sidwell friends get paid by the state for kids' attendance? no. they he a -- exactly. they have a great attendance record, though, becae the parents kick their butt to go there bcause they have to p

to gothere. and they give the kids a quality education. if the los angeles school district doesn't give quality education, they shouldn't have to pay for that to get the kids show up. >> gary b., this is actually cominfrom private money. this is not taxpayer money. >> this is from private money, yes. nenever mind. >> it might at some point. john, take this on. >> look, i help run a kids program here in bermua. we have problems with a huge dropout rate. i would love to have an iphone or id to reward these young men or wome bad upon their performance. i gree on attendance, buttst also got to be measured to graduation race and so're not gtting in trouble you're passing. it's got to be some kind of type of metric. nojust attendance. what happened in los angeles, they get about $32 per kid per day. and they were losing funding because of it. that's a big reason behind this. >> that money. and where's that money coming from, though?

th$32 a day? that's not private money. thatomrom the taxpayer. >> okay. sus. >> we should be taking this extra money and improving the actual experience of education. we're losing progart programs, c programs. absolutely. there's so much deteriorating in our public school system. we should be putting more money into improving education, not giving them ids. >> more money? susan -- >> first ofall, i went to one of those private schools with taxpayer money a i had the worst attendance record at the school. good idea is because in what i call the gameification of schoolwhich is incentivize, we're already spending the money on the school. that's a su cost at this point for taxpayers. asoody all said, 80% is just showing up. en you've got to use other gameliktricks. >> all rig. gary b., you've got the last word. >> we'reixing something that's

broken. public education has not moved e needle one inch in the last 50 years. let's move ono a ne model. how about a vcher system and privte education? >> okay. that's got to be the last word. thanks, guys. anthanks to susan for joining us. he says he's a hero for revealing nsa snooping. he may have just revealed the one stock you may need to own now. how old is the oldest person you' known? we gavpeople a sticker and had them show us. welearned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is how do you make sure you have the money you need

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prediions.

gary b., youe up. >> brenda, booz allen has been getting bashed lately because of all this snooping stuff. i like the stk. i think it's going to be up 20% by thend of the year. >> jonas? >> too early in the scandal. >> have to wait while. john, yourprediction. >> aol is being forced to get in the byout gameby yahoo! and google. i think the stock's up 30% in a year. >> gary? >> seriously, john, aol come on. >> okay. toby. what do you like? >> forget about aol. we've got new game consoles. that means game stop will sell a bunch more games. i think it's up 30%by the end of the year. >> toby knows all about that. john, what do you tn toby should be a video game character. unt he is, i'm a bear. >> i think he is out there. >> you're still on aol. come on. >>onas, your prediction. >>detroit is now so broke, they're missing debt payments.

lend your money to states that ha the tax pay. california muni bonds. >> tob >> i'm a total bear. if you read meredith whitney's great book, you wldn't put a penny into california muni bonds. cavuto is next. >> well, tey might be watching you. is it time to start watching them? hi, everyone. glad to have you. i'm neil cavuto. and watchut because apparently washington does not want you finding out much at all about this nsa snooping. senators closinghe door on another sure briefing this week. let me say thats what's pretty weak. doesn't the public deserve better? who's going to save them? not this man of steelho might be smashing box fice records this weekend. yeah, this man of steel wants to smash down thosdoors of taxpayers everhere. why are they laughin