show.com. have we'll have another great tv show next week and inhe good evening, everybody. thank you for beiwith us. confessed nsa leak ser edward snowden aftea brief vanishing act is once again speaking and complicating the globalimage of the man who remas in ng kong, he says, andtoday he raised t stakes in his campaign against u.s. agencies and their surveillan. snowden telling the south ina rning post that the united stat is engaged i more tha 60,000 hacking operations worldwide. snowden also said that chi is one of therimary targets an of u.s. intelligence, hacking the mainframes of chinese universities, bunesses, and public officials.

snowden id"i neithe traitor nor hero. i'm an amecan." at was befe he saidhe would puttg his fate in theands of the courts and the people of ng kong instead of americans. and today's statements may explain who snowden is actually working for. and why this spectacle overwhelmed president obam's two-day summit with chinese president xi jinping a what insight do his words suggest as to why the white house still refuses to characterize the statusf the man whoany in connress are now calling a traitor. has the white house not noticed thateneral keith alander the head of the nsa testified on capitol hi as tohat edward snowden has done and the damage that he has caused. has the administration not noced its own department of justice is drawing up charges against the leaker who has

publicly confessedis acts? some might ask, who is leing this country and in what direction. the new fox poll just released an hour ago, when asked about the currt state of leadership in washington, americans said by a margin of 71%, is this best we can do? the me fox pol shows the presidens job performance now underwater. only 44% of those surveyed approve of his rformance. 50% disapprove. my first guest tonight regned from the nsa after a carr spanning more thann three dedes. protesting growing domestic surveillance. bening. us now iswilliam you le the nsa in protest ally over the decision by the governnt to the conduct surveillance seeking out terrorrsts after september 11th,

2001. you have seen, well, the history since. what are your thoughts now about these allegations and the extent, thsweep, if you will, of the surveilnce that is taking place by the u.s. government? >> well, okay. from where i sit and whati've seen and what i've read so far and what i know, they're really attacking twcommunication syem like the publicwitch telephone network that includes land lines, mole phones, satellite phones. that's a worldwide system and al they'reooking athe intern and the world wide web which againis a worldwide system that is ipd addresses, 4 and 6. so those are ike phone numbers, if you will. or you can draw the analogy. and what they're doing is pullin in all the metadatato reconstruct the communities of interest r, if you will, the social networks oevery individual in the world and in

particular, one of t rea i couldn't stay there fo sure was the fact that they we doing it to every u.s. citizen. i mean, my knowledge was that they were taking in about 320 milln records oo long distance calls of u. citizens to other u.s. citizs every day. th started in oober of 2001. and that why i could not be a of that. >>nd the patriot act, which followed the authorization for the government to begin much of that suillance, did that in any way allay your concns? >> no, because ain, you see the issue, lou, is that what th can do, e capability with that metadata is to build the entire counitieslike for example the tea party would you liking to reconstruct the tea party or theoccupy groups and who is central to the tea party and peripheral. anyou can ha the data about

them, including getting their names and if they apply for tax exempt status and you can checkk that list d see if they're on it and t target them if you want to. that theroblblem with it. at's the proemith the governme having so much knowledge abt the citizens of the country. >> the knowledge about the citizens of the country versus the records oftheir communications, be whether weo operation prism andnclude e-mails, video, along with the phhne calls and those voice commications, its what you do with them. the storage in and of self obviously deeply troubles you. othe sayen it is in metadata form, if you will, y don't drill down unless you ve obable cause and reaso and great specicity. i hear you saying that that's an illusion. >> the are tw ways to prove

intelligence about any target in the world. one ito read what they're saying and pay attention to it. that givesou intelligence. the other tobuild the metadata see how they interact with one another. when y do that and time line that over aeriod of time, you can see who's doing whatat with whom and infer from just the interactions some of the activities that theye inteing to do. for example, if you had a drug smuggler in colombia that wanted to smuggle drugs into the united states, he would have to communicate with someone in the united states in some fm to arrange the sell and b relationship. en you'd ha t to arrange with somebody to transport it. then he' ve to transfer the money. and transfer the drugs. so those things he to haen. they show up as interactions in the metadata and once you see em, you can inr thathat's in fact wh they're doing. so there's a lot ofthings you can do. you can look andsee y're havi medalpblem yocan se th meca docrs thatou'rvisingnd makng

appoen wit so yknw, etadais re pret danrous >> etdgero. its al ubiitou iis acceible >> y. >>ot on by certainly government, which we're talking out that balce between surveillance and civil rights. and certainly the impoance of our law, but we're also talking providers, whether they be lar vast tecology and telecommunications company, all them sharing the very formation that you've described in addition to. >> yes. >> -- the agency of the government tt we rely upon top provide that surveillance and bestossible knowledge and understanding of what i happening,t leastn the world of the internet you said in switch communications, as well. it becomes a very difficult, if you will, bramable a thicket

tonavigate. >> there's another real danger. youha to -- talks about trust. you have to ust the government. but you also ve to trust al the people in the gvernment because they can ge o a rminal to go into the systems and look at any data base and anyone they nt to. then you have to trust ahe contractors maintainingthe database and the query routines and insuri that the whole systemorks. you have torust all them not to go into that database to look for things from other companies or something our competitors or to ook, if you wanted to see if your wife is cheating on you, you could go and do that. it in that atabase. you could see relationships your wife may have and you could infer a relationship there. so you know, there's so many pitfalls andangers at asseling all thisinformation about individuals. >> inferring relationships also seeking out with great specificity connections from whicto draw. >> yep.

>> -- intelligent analysis and conclusions which is wt we want the nsa to do, whichs what we want our intelligence agencies to do. and i'm left then with the trust, as you talked about famously, ronaldeagan trust but verify, and my god, i think the nsa to verify, verify, verify irrespective ofwho the employ mighte or the posiiion he or she might hold. but at the other end of this, in government whoo we trus do w trust thepresident, th most recen ratings suggest not. do we trust conngress? hardly. their ratings are so low, we can't right now in the midst o scandal really say that the ate department, the internal revenue service, the justice department merit our trust. can we? >> no. no, you can't. d tre's another myth that they're really circulating

around washington and they'r claiming that it's the truth. and that is tt youave to collect althis data get the terrorists. at's aoly false. >> how so? principles they have to use in collection of ta and analysis to do that. one is, i call it the two-degree prciple. if you have a terrorist ca somebody in the united states that's the first degree. the second degree is who that person in the united states then calls. that forms a zone ofsuspicion, and you take that collectively along with amonitoring the jihadi advocatg sites and those who advocate violence against the wst and see who's accessg those. that aggregate th is your zone of suspicion. we would have gotten the ft. hood shooter and the boston bombers. they were a part of that. in fact, i do not know o anyone that won't have fallen into that category that was the principle i was using. ppus -- >> you bring up the boston

bombing. that seems tome to be clearly a failure of human intelligence. that is, clearcounication between the cia and the russian agenciesclear communicatn between e russiangencies and the fbi. i presumthen communication between the cia and fbi, perhap% even local. we're just speculating. but that's human itelligence that was an abjct failure, don'tyou think? >> wel i also caed it the intellen failure was also the sicken part of it. because all of those connectis shed up in the call records and ev >> corroborating intelligence. >> the x fbi agent, tim clemente when he was interviewed on cnn about a week and a half ago he werere safe and that they will d way etting back to the the bombers and his wife.of >> you knoww an is we have --

and it's been fascinating liening to you ta us through this. and try best we can to comprehend part at least of what yore talkin about in the architecture of the of the agency and intelligence, signal intelligence. let me ask you this. do you not -- and you wer talking out these nodes that arereated by a series of connections whether they be communication between a jihad dist and someone in this country, whether they be subsequent communication. wh do you make of an event in ich the president of the united states complaining might liabout cyber attacks ends up in the cap, the soutrn california desert with president xi jinping for a two-day summit, cyber attas against the united states to be a large agenda item, tough talk from the president, his admistration, and suddenly that twday summit

is vaporized by someone by the name of edward snowden. and his revelations and his forthcoming details. inhat -- tel me iyou find a node, aoincidence or just randomircumstance in intelligence terms. >> well, it could be simply random. i ouldn't be able to say. butheentire gogornment cou have avoided all ofis if they'd have been a little more honest with everything that they're doing with the publ and if they would have done a proper job, a legal job, a constutionally acceptable job. >> no question. i was asking really for e intelligence conclusion given ur almt 40 years in the nsa. becae i nd myself you know as the host of this broadcast just scratchin my head at the -- and marvelg at the coincidence. >> well, there is, in fact, a probability of association.

an the question would be, di snowde know about the visit from the chinese premier and if he did, then -- and he could have connected it with thatso yeah. >> well, and lots of possibilities remain f us. an will uil we actually kno william binny, we thank you for being re to expand our knowledge. i asre you the fault lies with me, not y. we appreciate it so much. >> thank you. >> up next, the senate passes the first vote on the gang of 8's immigration reform legislation. buwill weak border secity requirements doom the legislation? immigration eert my mother madehe best toffee in t world.

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the naonal immigration forum, kris kobach, the co-author of numerous anti-immigration laws, the seary oftate of kansas and both men have been eegaged in these battles ov lo these many years. gentlemen, good to have you both with us. al let me turn to you first. we heard thepresent imploring passage a at the same tim there is no amendment on border security, even marco rubio says it won't happen without -- if the left continues to game the issue. >> well, i mean, up to this point, lou, we've h an open transparent process. you look back at the judiciary committee process. i mean, 13-5 bipartisan vote. anumber of amendments support both republica and democrats. that's the best part whe we are right now.

we're about to star a thoughtful intentional debate on the senate floor how to f our nati's immigration sysm and republicans will put amendments on the table and docrats are, too. all of us will able to see exactly how this bill is going to come together. do think we're going to see additional enrcing measures, additional measures to make sure people are protected, as well. but that's what we want congres to do. there'no otherissue right now, lou, that has thisind of bipartisan momentum like immigration. i think it's going to be a really, really intesting and great summer. >> kris, this may shock you, but i'm going to agree withhali noani and i tell you i think right now they've had the beest shot ty've ever had, that is those seeking a w immration law if they have the sense a the judgment and the humility to actually secure the border. if they talk nonsense about numbers and metrics rather than an acal border thats secured by u.s. law enforcement, border

patrol especially, you kno if they game that, i thiour side wins. if ty don't, i think they prevail. what do you think? >>ell, i think that's a big if, lou. thbills itteasirtlly nothg th wilhelpde force forcent. is bl wi guthe forcent havin t statusquo. it ds all kinds of things to weaken border enforcement. what will they do when the amendments comup and the amendments in the committee that were serious amendmentso increase border enforment were rejected. for example, there w an amendment offered to finish the 700 miles of fence on the southern border that w promised w back in oober o 2006. that was rejected..o cf1 o there was an a illegal aliens from getting ened income tax credits that amendment wasrejecte if the samepattern occurs in the senate and all of these -preasonable amendments are rejected, you're going to see the vast majority of republicans vote against this bill. we'll have to see what appens.

>> and senator sessions is posing the qstion posed to you before. whywon't somebody hwill us homany illegal immigrants wi be given legal status projected with this legislation or with the course of theext decade? >> why won't somebody give us a number? as he put it, is it because they don't know the or they won't say? >>. >> this why this is such a good piece of legislation is because wh will happen for the undocumented, they'll g through a criminal background check. >> i know the process. i'm asking for a number, ali. come on. >> after y meet the criteria, o then you get to a numbe giving au esmate now is speculation. that's why this process has been set up so that people are goi rough i >> so any umber isfine? is there a limit? >> in a reasonable way. at this point -- at thi point we have -- >> kris, go ahead >> eventually bringing in their relatives. we could be talking about 30 million over time.

this ia huge number. one thing we also heard finally from rubio, he admitted yeah the amnesty comes first. there's no trger at the beginning that says you haveo enforce nything. they get leg status on dayone virtually on day one as soon as is the department of homeland security submits some pape o coress. that means this is an amnesty first and the promise of enforcement later. but we have seen tis admiministration shatter its promises and basically unilaterally disarm in terms of enforcement. i don't think we can trust tis government and we certainly can't trust this bill. we can't trust this adnistration i should say. >> let me ask you. >> aone who thinks this bill is aood idea hasn't read it. >> theastord vy quickly if you will, ali. does youride in this believe they can game it and get away with it this time? >> our side, the side that includes faith, law enforcement business as well as the immigrant community across the political spectrum wants a

transparent process that creates a 21st century immigration system. the status quo is unsustainable. only the crooked employers are winning. we are wasting billions of dollars in tax money. >> i think you will win ifou oose not to game it. i'm askingyouu can y sitere and say you're going to be honest and straightforward and not try to game it? >> we do not wantgames. we wt alaw. >> so you will. >> we'll s what happens. >> you will not in any way try to game this system? >> u, i feel like you're setting me up for something here. >> you what? >> i feel like you're leading me >> i'm not. i'm just asking the question seeking a straightforward answer. >> we want a transparentocess that results in smart legislation. >> okay. i got it. transparent and smart. >> reasonable amendments, watch his reasonab amendments are voted down one after another and you'll see what's going to happen >>ris kobach, ali noorani. thank you. much more on the ospectsoff

the gangf 8 immigration bill throughout tonit's broadcast. stay with us. edward snowden, the nsa leaker, hero or traito a lot of people are making up their minds early and it depends upon whom you ask. with the spark miles card from capital one, orn earns unmited rewass for his small business take theseags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjors small busi earns double miles on every purchase everday. produce delivery. [ bjorn just putt on my spark card. [ garth why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses derve limited reward here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ]

now where's the snooze button?

you know, we really don't know very much at all about 29-year-old edward swden, the leaker of the nationalsecurity agency's surveillance programs. but over the past few days, we've heard him described as hero, traitor, a whistleblower, a public servant, a fugitive, a criminal, even by some might call him a bad boyfrien nominally you can tell whe someone stands on an issue by the "r" or "d" llowing thr name in washington, d.c. but that certainly hasn't been the case with snowden and we nted to go through it here very quickly. first the case for labeling him

a traitor. let's lead off first by the speaker of the house, john boehner. boehner came out toda saying flat out snowden is a traitor for showing our enemies what our cabilities are in surveiance. boehner by the way is a republican, but senator dianne feinstein, i mean,he has, well, she shares his view. she's the chair of t senate intelligence commtee. she says snowden committed an act of trea the same goes for house homeland security committee member and former chairman, republican congressman peter king who says snowden is a danger to the nation. and president obama, here is, 2013, president obama hasn't weighed in on snowden. but his justice departmt is preparg crimin charges againssnowden. and friday, t president defended the nsa's surveillce program sayi they make a difference in prevting terrorist attacks on this country and americans. and now the case for leling

snowdeand his actio heic if you can imagine that has happened. and none other than glenn beck and michael moore. these men couldn't be more opposite inheir political views. typically. but beck tweeted out tt snowden has the, as he p it, the earmarks of a real hero and moore, moore called him the hero of the year. i mean, i have to sit here and just kind of look. by the way, we wan to say thanks again as always to glenn for lng mey chalk board. th wasery ce. we want to say thank you no matter some of hisviews. senators mike lee and al franken. i'm going to say that again. senators mike lee and al franken. they've come gether to say, well, that they're kind of behind this thing. legal aea party favorite, fra pminent lefty. they haven't attached a label to snowden but are backing legisliothat would require our government to be more

transparent in its surveillance. now,thin about ts. th wan to force theustice department to the declaify court opinions in tis instance, cour opinions operating under the foreign intelligence act or fisa the foreign intelligence surveillance cou, well, that meure probably won't passbut it was worth drti justo see this odd pairinenators leann franken. don't you think? prident obama, well, herehe is lookie there. lookthere. the difference between senator obama in 2007nd president obama, 2003. do you think this job doesn't carry with it a little weight and burd? nator, well, then senate candidate barack oma accused the sh administrationack then of putting forward a "false choice" between national security and our civil liberties. heas very red up about it. but i think it's a etty safe

bet that t president obama now would not make the same argument because he isscaught as are we all in a very real choice between national security and civil liberties. and snowden, well, snowden right now is still very much a questi mark. house speaker jhn boehner says he's confidentthe house wll pake up immigration reform this year. house judiciary committee house judiciary committee chairman bob good law an gives there is pursuit we all share. a better life for your family, a better oppornity for your business, a better legacy to leave the world. we have always believed in this pursuit, striving to bring insight d integrity to every plan.

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let me firstsk you for your evaluaon. you are -- you've already moved forward four elements stand alone bills. phe ag act which is the agricultural guest worker program, the legal workforce act, which is e verify employer verification othose hired, the ills act for high skilled migration which isn't being discussed on the her si of the hill, and the safe act. how confident are you that we're going to see sensible reform emerge from the house and the senate this ar? >> i feel very good about the safe act that yo mentioned last deals with somethinghat is not being dealt th in the senate in any significant way, and that is interior enforcement. 35 to 40% of the people who are lawfully present in the countrentered legally. so fixing theorder is certaiy part of our agenda in the house, but that doesn't

cover the problem because once you're in a student visa, visitor vsa, business visa, visa waiver and you don't have the interior enforcement volving state and local government, involving other meases that prohibit the preeenfrom basically flipping a switch aot even enforcing aspes of our immigration loss as happens today, you're not addressing the problem. so senar cruzade some good points in the remarks you just broadcast. and we are attempting to goin a very different direction in the house where we fix all of the problems as we address the overall immigration situation. >> your incremental approach and i should point o that you and congressman troy gowdy are leading theay on th s.a.f.e. act is taking on the issues that maer the most. they are the elemental, the foundationssues if you will of illegal immigration into this country and at this point, how confident are you that you're

going to have the leadership support and the support ofhe house? >> wthink that we have gotten a very good response from our rank and file members in the step by step apprch that we're taking. and i feel very good about producing good,olid legislation that addresses these problems before we jp to the conclusionsbout what kind of lega status should be given to peopleho are not legally present in the united ates. we're going to start that of process in terms of markups. we'll have an announcement on that very soon, and we're going to pursue it aggressively but dot feel we're boundby a timetable but by getting it right. >>ne of the nundrums that surely faces you and all of those leading investigations and seeking to understand and to vern this massive organization we call the federal government,

there has to be an understanding that we -- the agencies we trust most in this countryre t united states military and thos who are, if you will, at the point of the spear in intelligence and covert operations and then there' the ress of governnt right now. and it's a stnge time. we don't trus coress. every pollhowsso. we trust our troop we trustheir leaders. we don't trust the president, the polls say so. we're talking about a president who's underwater with his approval ratings now. we don't trust o leadership. 71% accordi t the latest fox news pl, 71% says this is the best we can do? and in the midst of this, we have the folks, whethert's the state department, whher it is the justice department whom we rely on f so much and you'll be talking one of the principal leaders othe justice department, the head of the fbi.

i meanwe're caught in a difful conundrum right noo, and it seems to me a treacherous time, and it's not a play on wos, i assure you. a treacherous t time for all of you who are in char o governing this great countryy. >> tt's absolutely tr. when you look at the nghazi scandal, you look at the ir subpoena investigaon of various conservative groups, tea parties d we find far, far more array of groups th were targeted for special instigation by the irs, when you look at the use o i would argue, extra attention for repoers who are reporting the news, a.p., the fox news reporter who is the chief washington correspondent and yet treated like a common criminal in the warrant that was sought to get his e-mail >> we should point out he

treated thatay by an fbi agent. rember the justice department and a federal judge. >> approved by the attorney general. absolutely. >> theederal judge actually apologiz a few weeks ago right after the attorney general testified because he realized that what he had apoved and sealed, he had kept sealed for an additional 1 months longer than he had agreed to, and i think he probably realized when all of these scandalsroke that head forgotten to do that. so that actually heed us to advance our iestigation considerably. it's the job of the congress and the judiciary committee to take the necessary steps to look into this newest matter and the others, of course, but this newest matter to find out what weeed to do to increase the trust of the american pele in eir militar intheir intellence gathing, in th fbi because they do have to do their jo but they have to do them right. if the rul need to be changed and the oversight needs to be changed, wshould be prared

>> congressman, we appreciate it so much. the wounds of r inspired a ucla surgeon to help america's wounded heroes. we'll introduce you to t doctor o started operationn mee. and the former marine who became patient zero after taing on television with me. (announcer) scottrade ows our clnts ade nd invest their own way. with scottrade's smart text, i can qukly understand my charts, and spend more time trading. their quick trade bar lets mya i can react in realime. plus, my local scottrade office there to help. because they knoi dot trade like everybody. plus, my local scottrade office thei trade like me. i'm with scottrade. (announcer) scottrade. voted "best vestment services company." you will lose 3 sets of keys 4 cell phones 7 soc nd 6 weeks of slp but one thing you dot want to lose is any more teeth. if you wear a partial, you are most twice as likely to lose your supporting teeth.

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lou: turninnow to our wound warriors an aaazing program that provides reconstructive surgery to severely injured service members inspired in part by a conversation between a marine corporal and i talking othe air some seven years ago. it's caed operation end. and the program h treated more than 80 of our wounded warriors since 2007. joining us now is marine corporal aaron mankin, iraq war veteran, wounded in 2005, the first opation mend patient. is great to see you, aar.

good to have you with us on the broadcas >> good evening, mr. dobbs. than for having me ba on the show. >>nd ronald katz, the under of operation men aember of the ucla mecal center board. this is great to have you with us, ronald i've goto sayhat the whene heard that you had gotten e idea for this watching aaron and me talking, you ow, i just sa here and sort o scratched my head and thought what a -- he was such a great spokesman for the brooke my medical center in san antonio where we met for all of our wounded veterans. i couldn't be more delighted that you fou him so inspiring. >> well, i rlly did. he was eceptiona and sing him on your program. >> what is the program, operation mend, aaron, meant to you? you have traveled sofar.

i said you were wounded in an attack. we can - as sit here looking at you across the way, you know, you look amazing. yo know you're back to that gged marine look that you represented throughout your life. it's been hell of a journey though, hasn't it? >> you know, half ofwhatwe learn is from the journey gettggfrom here to there. that wasust on day in my life in iraq. severely wounded as i was. coming from that point now having ended near 60 surgeries in the past eight years and having a program like operation mend behe for me as a resour just havingerve myountry and come home and have my country want to serve me in such a unique way to provide such speclized care is to give me back a sense of my humanity,

to give me my normal back to o i was. it's invaluable. i can't thank ron or ucla medical systems or brooke army medical center, everyone who is touched my life along the way, i cat thank them enough, including you, sir. >> i didnothing. you know, i had the honor of reporting your story and getting to know you and it's a t treasud honor, i assure you. ronald, let me ask you this. u've been ei money, various fundg, govnment the work, i've got t believe that people when they heard me say 80 paents they thought, well, that isn't very many ople but until they meet the fos who need the help and the -- you know, that's a huge number. te us what we can do to lp you. >> well, as you recognize we al with very severely injured patits, and it's not singl

surgery that takes paceebut basically aaron's case, it's a lae number of surgeries. and you have to rely pay attentn to these folks. the serviceat w provide are completely free. eryone that participates gets come to ucla, and we bring their family too because we think the family component is crical. d to be able to care for people like aaron and their families and give them this experience along with all of the people in loangeles that have kind of gravited to the young men and women, it's a very exciting community experience really. >> well, weant to put up on the screen where our viewers can help out if they are so -- if they so want. i hope th you o. operation mend.ucla.edu. aaron, partner, it's great t see you. i'm delighted that you're doing

so well, and know theids of yours, your daughters mean the world to you. i wish you all t very best anand look forward to seeing y soon. >> thank you. >> aaron, thank you very much. ronald, thank you for all you've done. we will help. you continue your good work. thank you. >> up next, in his new sook american gun," we'll be tlking with william doyle andabout, well, a fascinating study with chrikyle, t allen marine sniper. william doyle next. the boys used double miles from their capital one venture card to fly home for theig family reunion. ou must be gar's father? hello. mother. mother! traveling is easy with the venture card because you can fly airline ytime. two words. double miles! this guy c act. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys! and with double miles you canctuay use, you never miss the fun. beard growing conte and go!

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at the time of chris kyle's tragic death in februaf this year, he was finishin up a book that defined his passion with

guns. american snip, a runaway best seller. "american gun" tells the ory of how ten unique american firearms shaped the history of this country. kyle reveals how firearms innovation, creativity and industrial genius pushe our history and power here on behalf o chris kyle and co-author of "american gun," is william doyle. >> great to be here, lou, on behalf of ch kyle. % >> i always love authors. you guys never trust me to have a copy of e book. it's a terrific ook. remmend it to you. it is fascining mehat you took this idea, ten guns or weapons, are if you prefer, that areremarkable. you're talking about the long rifle, the repeater, the spencer peater, the colt .45, the peaccmaker, e stuff that we grew u on as kids the winchester rififle, the 73,

the 94,ny number of the lever action rfles that are just terrific parts of american western history d istory. tell us about the rationship betweeguns and america, if you will, broadly. >> chris kylehought that there was an amazing series of stories to be told about how guns have shaped arican history and they have. whethe-- no matter where you are in the political spectrum anthis is a book not about politics but abo great ameran history. auttthought, it's important for us to know, for exple, abraham lioln was a gun buff. and a technology geek. abraham lincoln had a shoong range of his own behind the white house. and he would go bac there and fire off rounds at targets to test new gun tecologies. in fact, one day he was crouched down ooting, and the pice came by because there was rule agait that in washington at the time and they started holleringnd cursing at him and ran over grab the gun from him, and abe

lincoln, the witness described, uniledimse ghhigh, d hier. d esend hselfnd t eyrealed t plice realed, god, that's old abe himself. and they ran away. and lincoln said whoa, they might have stuck around to see the shooting. so presidential gun buffs are intereeting or the involvement of presidents andguns. teddy roosevelt helped creat the springfield 1903 rifle that r troops are sti using a version of around e world today. and john kennedy was intimately involveded in designing the m-1 which we use today. it's a fascinating connection, isn't it. >>. >> absolutely. thm-16 whichupplanted the m-14 and the old m-1 the 30 au magnificent part of our history. many gun buffs still consider to be one of the fint weapo ever designed. >>he m-1 saved theorld because my father and so many members of the greatest generation had that gun by their

side in combat zones in world waii. that gun was better than the japanese version, and it was better than the german standard shoulder rifle. now that counts for history and it counts for savivi american % lives. that's the intereing interplay between technology and move offing our history forward and back, with putting food on the table, eanding t country. you know, we know about the crimes quite well, but i think what we've forgotten is the connection that guns have to our military history and to our freedom in man ways. >> absolutely. when we talk about ns that you know that n the west, we're talking about the peacemaker, we'rtalkinout the spencer, we're talking about the winchester repeating arms. it is a terrific idea, brilliantly executed. you got another big winner on youran, and i' sure that chris kyle would be thrilled with the sult. >> thanks a lot. >> thank you very much. good to have you with us. william doyle, the book is, as i

said "amerin gun." it's on sale. now online or at bookstores everywhere, go to lou dobbs.com for links, as well. we'll see youhere tomorrow. thanks for being with us. good night from w york. my mother ma the best toffee in the wor. it's delicious. so now we've turned hetoffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and rmed my toffee compa through legaoom. never really thought i would make money doing whai love. [ robert ] we cread legalzoom to help ople start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. and make your business dream a reality. with a machine. replacepeope what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks dot? hello? hello?! if your bank doesn't leyo talk to a re person 24/7,

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thht is coming tomrow. odbyy. ♪ >> still coming across by the hundreds and thousands john: iilegal immigration is down but people stl sneak and plexuses a pretty good-sized told. i am dissing this. >> it does not matter how high offenses. john: we need to seal our borders. >> god our borders,rotecting the homeland. >>llegals steal american jobs. john: if immigrants are such up problem what is cada's immigration by billboards in america. >> we willake it. >> the fight of the american dream. that is our show tonight ♪