neil: it keeps on coming. welcome, i am neil cavuto. don't say that i didn't warn you. we learned that they were bigger and far more widespread. the reports now showing that american and british delegations were eavesdrops in one world most of these guys were spying on things at this meeting. a kind of makes you wonder what is going on in ireland at this latest meeting. we are going to be speaking with

two individuals about this in just a moment. going up to anyone and everyone who might know the most remote thing. even if they might not, please refer to the latest "washington post" story about how states now have the faces of more than 120 million people that, my friends, is a lot of faces. forget for the moment the latest prominent leaker of the stuff coming dick cheney thinks that ed snowden is this. focus more on the stuff that he has leaked. an agency collecting millions of phone records and e-mail records. other government agencies chasing down personnel records all in the guise of keeping us safe. sometimes of the court order, and a lot of times on what we were told was a mutual

understanding. it is weird. that is what happens when these scandals break. they just keep breaking. and they just keep on coming. this is precisely the drama they saw playing out. >> i think we are in a very dangerous time. the government is spying on half of americans. but this is for our own good and the government is arguing. give us some of your liberty, and we will keep the state. it doesn't keep us safe in the back. in world war i, there was an act of the espionage act which prohibited saying nice things about the enemy. that is still a lot today. the government hasn't used it, but it's there if they want to indict somebody on the basis of their word. that is very dangerous.

>> the american public cannot become complacent about this. we are moving down a slippery slope. it will never happen, yet we are what we are. >> joe lieberman, the former homeland security chairman of the senate, he was telling me that that kind of thing has stopped. of course, that is like wondering what the point was. that there is some good. what do you say to that? >> i say the value is an analysis after costs. so what cost are we getting value. neil: what if entering upon a

condo talked about this. >> i don't give up the liberties that have made america america. i'm willing to live with some toys are you at some point, enough is enough. this is too much. the government is spying on half the country. the whole purpose of the fourth amendment was to make sure that we didn't have fishing expeditions and dragnets and to give the government what it means. but the government has to show a target. it has to show suspicion. neil: but what about looking for a proverbial needle in a haystack? >> it simply can't always do that. he called the bolsheviks and he said that he would look at everybody. neil: that was a total bolshevik >> the purpose is to prevent the government from doing it in large numbers what it is doing to us. you have a greater chance of dying by being shot by the police or phone in your bathtub at home than you do being shot by a terrorist. you would not give up privacy in

their homm. why would you give up privacy in your e-mail. it doesn't keep us safe. does that make their jobs easier? >> yes, it does. putting obstacles in front of the government is what we did intentionally. if we don't control the government, the government will control us. so who is in charge now? >> over the other fearsome words? >> the nine most dangerous words in the english language. >> for whatever reason he comes back more enraged. [laughter] neil: i think you guys very much. in the meanwhile,, dick cheney says edward snowden is no hero. we thought it was a good play on words. but some see this as his greatest problem.

those who snitch on power for whatever good intentions as the problem. all right, over to you first. i think that dick cheney was saying that snowden is a tom. >> he is doing a great public service here. he's exposing the government, basically. that is something they have to testify to the people and they can't do that because it's not necessary. neil: you encountered the same frustration. they compromise a lot of things, getting this out, and here we are trying to make people aware of something pretty heinous going on. i don't know the case with edward snowden. i don't know whether to say that

he has followed in your more noble footsteps. but i worry about how he immediately label someone the way that we have. >> i agreee neil. we need to move cautiously here. but i do share the concerns when the guy runs off to china and now he's talking about this. neil: that is what bothers me. the fact that you did that. does that indicate who is to be trusted or what? neil: as you go to china, basically under china's control, presumably you have more stuff

available. but you are not sticking around here and going to is expected order, and immediate higher up, something that concerns or alarms here. now in both of your cases, you did try to go through the proper channels. neil: maybe you should explain what happened you. >> we went to congress, we went to the inspector general and the united states department of defense. a report was issued. it was classified and it was essentially buried from public view.

one thing that occurs to me that maybe build he looks at the treatment that you guys bought. >> he is not a scoundrel. i'm not sure that makes him a hero, but it's not as bad as we made an observation for. neil: a lot of people are there

too many? >> absolutely. what the snowden experience tells you is that the government has no real way of monitoring who is doing what on the network. they only find out after the fact that somebody took it out and is doing something with it to expose it. they really don't -- they don't have an online check of things in the files that are being interrogated. neil: so i am looking at this as the way things are going down. so i'm not always going to go to my authority. i am listening here to what you guys went through. by the same token, i don't know if i will run down what is calm. maybe i will stumble upon something.

>> the government needs to create a path for the whistleblowers in the intelligence community so we don't create these pressure cooker situations are we have an explosion of classified information. neil: that mean for the government has to be open to that sort of criticism. >> that is really the problem. the government can't face their problems. that is why they continue to have the save problems. they can't face their problems. they always try to cover it up at. neil: you guys are goofy to live to tell about it. cooing up next, leaks are no

leaks a better opportunity foyour business, a better legacy to leave the world. striving to bring inght to every investment, and integrity every plan. we are morgan stanley. and we're ready toork for you.

neil: the man ronald reagan said

famously remarked about this being total bull. david stockman says the scandals are bad. david spells it all out in his bestseller. the great information, the corruption, the capitalism in america. you don't mind focusing on the scandals, because some are pretty egregious. >> i think we are in a complete fantasy land. the short run blip -- neil: what have you heard? >> oh, the one-time factors. like fannie mae and freddie mac. if you look at the longer term of the next 10 years, and economic forecast you are getting trillions of dollars of deficits on top of what we have.

neil: do you estimate it is going to go higher? >> dramatically over forecasting the economy. fourteen years, the last one ended and there's never been 14 years like that. we are going to have wage growth of 5.3% a year. so if you adjust real world super economics, you're looking at this. neil: sometimes you cannot not so sober and surprises. like 14 years ago you could have argued this. you could have pleasant surprises. neil: what you think about this? only bring you an internet boom? >> well, edge was a technological development and a great thing. neil: we are not always sold by3

this. >> the fed clearly is. we have a decade packed with zero interest rates and we are not always intervening in this way. >> well, they ought to stop right now. but the market is totally hooked on this monetary heroism. then they will begin to taper back or reduce the 85 billion. neil: so they should resist the hissy fit and moveon? >> yes, that is what they have been unwilling to do ever since greenspan punted in 1998 at the long-term capital time. time after time they have been doing the same thing. neil: how much higher do you think the interest rates would

be? >> we are afraid of the bogeyman that might not be there. i don't think there is any saving this economy. i think they easily could be two or 300 basis points, definitely higher. neil: that is not bad in the scheme of things. at the time, that seemed great. but that three or 4%, i don't dismiss it. >> i was 15 or 20 years ago. >> look at the housing market. we have a tepid recovery here. they drove the 30 year mortgage rate down to 3.2%.

neil: it is still continuing. >> no, i think what you have is a mini bubble in the housing market. neil: you do not buy this housing recovery? >> no, i do not. [laughter] i mean, obviously i haae owned a home for a long time. but the point i am making is that a recovery that you are seeing is due to low interest rates and some speculators. small timers and big hedge fund people. it isn't a real, sustainable healthy recovery. neil: what would david stockman do right now? the irs overreach, et cetera. what is your fear cometh you had to intervene right now. >> i would tell the public the truth. number one that the fed is nnt

designed to hold interest rates way below economic levels. to manage and manipulate the entire bond market. it has created a bubble. it will be a painful aajustment, but it has to happen. >> we are going to have to face up to the music on our fissal circumstance and we are going to have to reform entitlement. we will have to tax consumption. >> of course it should slow down the economy. >> in the short run, we need to get ourselves healthy economically or we're we are just going to have one bubble after another. then all the panic that occurs afterwards as we desperately try to dig out the deficit stimulus and all the rest of it. we are now in a dead end. we have been receiving us over

and over. obviously it does not work. it only works temporarily. neil: coming up next, david talks to us again [ lorenzo ] i'm renzo. work for 47 different companie well, technically i work for one. that cpanythe unitedtates postal service® works for thousands of home businesses. because usps.com® you can y, print and have your packages picked up for free. i can even drop off free boxes. wear a l of hats. we, technically i wear one. e u.s. postal service®, no business too small. how old is the oldest person u've known? we ge peopleticker and had them show us.

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neil: in 48 hours, we will know whether this bull market is running out or getting ratcheted out. the dow jones giving back some gains early on, likely to signal its rolling back the stimulus. whatever the case, ben bernanke and company really pulling out the production.

michael, what do you have? >> you really don't need much more proof than that. every time they talk about tapering this market just classes. the market is down 10% from the recent highs. that is exactly what we need. we need to market to be infused into the interest rate. the supply of money, the cost of money should be determined by the supply and demand. not by 12 unelected and on accountable officials. neil: those officials have been doing pretty much the market bidding. so the fear is that now they are telling the market but that is the way the fed does and get off of our apron strings. >> i disagree with that. but basically, comparing the united statee with europe. europe has had six connecutive quarters of declining income.

the unemployment rate increase is 25% or greater. >> so what is the downside to spending all this money? well, it is ultimately bad it is inflation. neil: the downside is a bubble. >> inflationary bubble, whatever you want to call it, it is basically inflation. let me give you one fact. it is one of the most surprising things that i have learned in the last 24 months. and i am ashamed that i didn't know it before. we all know about this. that is why germany will not let anybody do anything in europe because they have this hyperinflation. neil: you are losing me here. [laughter] >> hyperinflation lasted for two years. two years. after that, germany segued into a great economy.

>> we keep printing a trillion dollars, $20 billion, by the way, $25 a barrel for oil in the middle of the last decade. >> when the feds buy the bonds, the interest rates go down. that includes distortion in the cost of money. >> it is sort of like keeping us out of a depression. neil: wait, wait. >> the money supply growth rates are out of whack. because debt levels are out of

whack. >> we went through the '90s. >> is that tapers down a little bit and eventually we stopped it, i mean, you would be healthy longer term. is that right? >> absolutely, we should start right away. >> it risks the rise.

[laughter] >> but really. if you have 25% unemployment in this country. we are not prepared for that. we cannot deal where the unemployment is at. >> you know, that could happen. neil: okay, guys. most of you are great guests. i want you guys to just calm down. remember when russia was the greatest threat to this world? vladimir putin just proved that mitt romney was dead on. we will have that next vo: traveling you definitely end meeting a lotore people but

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neil: all right, never mind that vladimir putin funds assad's murderous route of his peal people. russian leader is concerned, his words about american led effort to fund syrian rebels against government attacks that russia is find funding, is that code

for this thing gets out of hand, if you lend a hand. what is going on here? >> well, vladimir putin understands that obama is weak, and poll driven, he is pulling all of the strings, and assad and syrian regime are for importance to russia, it is the last arab allie. and frankly, you know they are defending their client. all that said, i got to till you, one thing putin said is true, that is he said, well, if assad falls, islamists come to power, that is true, i look at what we're doing to syria, sending weapons much too late now that the extremists, the islamist fanatics have taken over the insurgents, it is between the devil and the deep

blue sea, both sides are evil, neither side is our friend, i don't think that obama administration has done serious analysis, they do not have a strategic plan, not a end state after assad falls, who will protect if islamist insurgents takeover, make no mistake, no matter what anyone on capitol hill tells, any u.s. arms that go to insurgency at this point will wind up in the hands of islamistic treatment ofs and al qaeda allies if we move to a no-fly zone, you will have u.s. pilot flying air coverage missions for al qaeda allies, and cronies, we have not thought this threw. neil: the time to intervene for this -- >> two years ago. neil: a long time ago, let them disintegrate on their own, best case is that assad cannot stand

even with whatever help he gets this something big, and either he is toppled or country is fractured into pieces. >> well, we are dealing wwth so many layers of problems, sir why was created for -- syria was created for french. because british got iraq and versailles, the borders do not work. so there is -- it is a sick area, the bloody horrible struggles with which i have no simp say thasympathy are effortf correct, you see a sunni-shia divide, i have no sympathy for assad regime, or hezbollah or iranian allies, they are scum of the earth, however, do you really' as an alternative to support an insurgentsy is tied

to islamic extremist, for all weeping aning nashing of teeth,y are doing, why don't they do it? why do we have to pay the bills for everything. neil: a good point, you know everything, every creek -- >> geography is fate. neil: thank you. >> who knew th the man of steele is zetsche, look at -- stretch, look at that uup, up and away. the only uerarm low t treatment. axiron can restoret levels l in aut 2 weeks in most men.

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neil: latest superman is back. after plunging down $125 million this last week, citizens are

impressed. no won wonder warren brothers ad dc comics are planning for a "man of steel" sequel. and you buying, we're blitzing. ggry, up, up and away? >> smart move on movie people's part. when things go good, they jump all over it, i remember it started back to future many years ago. it went so well for first movie, they did second and third together just to get them out quickly. the same thing is happening here. anddthere -- people love men and capes that save the world. neil: you know, can't you over do this? we have so many super heroes hitting the big screen, the most useless, mo offense to you -- no offense on you fans, thor, the

stupid hammer that is it. i stopped at thor . where is this going? >> i don't know. neil, i don't know if thor talks, and he could still make money in this environment. neil: he is british, i know that. >> there you go, we have continued to his accent, that takes half of the time of the movie, you had batman series do well. ironman 3 was untouch ale untouchable numbers, you are riding this streak, this economy is improving slightly, people like to get their wallets out in this economy. neil: i think you are right, it is good fun entertainment. and speaking of all things movie, dreamworks animation, and netflix, two are planning to produce more than 300 hours of them, dipping into a rich library of franchises from "shrek" and madagascar to cap per the friendly coast -- kasper

the friendly ghost, a stupid movie by the way, and rocky and bullwinkle, scott? >> they are doing nicely, they had house of cards and arrested development, netflix stock has been on fire, and down food chain, bringing on cartoon stuff, a smart move on net glick a part and dreamworks, this seems to be the new allure, single issue distribution that is hitting the -- growth. neil: and it will boost interest to whatever net glick does. >> there is a double win, dreamworks wants distribution, and net glick wants programs, netflix cut off their deal with viacom, which was spongebob and all them, they need more stuff. dreamworks has always come out with great animation, this is going big, good movie on both parts. neil: did you see years bag,

kasper the movie, not the character from animated series, which was wonderful, but the movie -- no. >> i'm afraid of ghosts. >> i straw with my kids. neil: kasper was week, come on. >> taking on twitter, by taking ideas from twitter, facebook to announce a video service for instinstagram, that sounds like vine, by twitter. that leads facebook users use hash tags, i have no idea what any of that meant or means but you do, what does it mean. >> here is funny thing, if you are not going to buy them, not be able to beat them, you do what they do. that is what facebook is doing with twitter, a lot of other apps the kids are getting into the big mobile push part of face fact future. -- facebook future. sca that is what i think that stock needs, that has been

trapped in the low 20s for some time, this actually might do it copies the vine service. neil: i am wondering it is about keeping people there a while, so they can be registered as folks who stick around, right? is that it? that that be appealing down the ready to advertisers? >> first law of business, somebody is doing something right, mimic them, that is a good move on facebook's part, they do not want to go by the way side, there are a lot of application that younger people are going after, and ignoring facebook, this gives them a route there and you know quick video, it is work on twitter. >> what do you think of facebo facebook? >facebook? many of these deals and strategies? it off its lows, a long way from debut high, where is it going. >> as far as spot they came out

ridiiulous prices, it is still overvalued here, earnings year-over-year have been flat, the stock will go nowhere, they will have to grow the earnings big not just revenues. neil: scott? >> neil, i think you have to find a way to get money out of the users, they get it ought of ads, but you need get it out of 57 that is connects, they can't do that yet. neil: all right, we shall watch, thank you. >> thank you. neil: rogue agents in cincinnati going after tear tea party thin, lie, today, proof. the boys used double miles from their capital one venture card to fly home for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mothe mother! traveling is easy with the venture card becase you can fly airline anytime. two words. double miles! this guy can act. wanna py doe rock? oh, yoguys!

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neil: well good golly, miss holly, this is a doozy, congressional sources confirming

that holly pass, formally a top deputy in irs division, reviewed up to 30 of those applications herself. not from cincinnati where we're told originally that rogue agencies were doing this but from washington d.c. where miss paz herself was doing this. mystery, getting more misterrous, but it should not be a shocker. that examinations were done at a local office. >> that is ridiculous claim they made in first place. it sounds like holly is now also trying to say she how i thoughty were working on it in cincinnati, cincinnati people thought they were waiting for direct in dc. but it was really just a miscommunication, i spoke with a couple forler fedeeacup former s

last night, they said that is not the way they work. neil: an earning o agency can on do stuff without checking with mother ship. which is washington. >> rigand we know that there are systems, that if something is late it flags it couldsumer advisers see it, it goes up the chain, there are reminders if something is later on overdue, there is no way there was a year and a half long miscommunication or 3 yearser where everybody thought everyone else was working on it. >> you know, when your group was fingered in all of that. asking all sorts of added questions, and forms and delays, how was it presented to you.

when that was going on, how was it explained? >> well, for a large number of groups, nothing was explained. there was no contact. and when people had their attorneys contact the irs, they never heard back from the irs. as far as tea party patriots, my group is concerned that was a big part, not getting a response, when you did. it was with -- something asking you more questions, more invasive questions. neil: at that point, that sets an important point, when they asked more questions, was it at that time you and your colleagues and friends started to say this is not coming from a field offers. this -- office this has more substance? >> theee is no way there you know, tea party movement is so connectioned on line, that is where we were born, we stayed a

lot of times, wire connected. -- we're connected. we knew this was happening on the groups, this weird invasive questions were happening, there was no way that it could have been done on that scale with those type of questions, coming from a couple of people in cincinnati that just thought, we'll ask the tea party movement, what books they read, and what -- you pro life scripps what prayers they say. neil: with miss paz and others, saying there was not a target the conservative group, they thought it could have been liberal groups, not going after an agenda or point of view, this was going after. groups that were abusing -- in eyes of irs, potentially abusing tax exempt status that was handed out like candy? >> it is ludicrous, and obvious they are lying about, that no liberal groups have come forward to say they had the same treatment that tea party and

conservative groups did, we know they were targeting, they admitted they were targeting, it all points to targeting, so they are trying to say that we -- that the rules were not clear enough, we know they were darn clear enough for liberal groups, they knew what they were doing, and they were clear enough they knew when they were doing to tea party groups this is all, them trying to remain unaccountable, that is what seems to happen across the board. irs is too big, and too powerful as has the rest of the u.s. government, we the people cannot even hole them aconnable with they literally opros and target -- opress and target u.s. citizens because of their political beliefs. neil: thank you, very of issue kelly. >> thank you. neil: congress republicans you got your national i.d. into to immigration law, oops, sorry.

after this.

neil: in arizona, supreme court ruling that state cannot require people to prove they are citizens before voting, senate pushes forward with massive immigration bill, that includes a national i.d. system, a lot of republicans demanded that because they argue it will help screen illegals already in the country or ones trying to get in now a double-edged so sword. to malia and rob. and katie. katy, what o you think? >> well, i think what all nsa information we have now, i don't think it is out of the question to think that federal government does not already have the information they want. on everyone here in america, that is not an excuse to give homeland security their own huge database, but people have not talked about here, and issue i

have circumstance why are they putting -- i have is, why are they putting burden on employers to do the john o job of legal ss fing well status -- legal status, that should be government job. >> i read 7% of american employers are voluntarily using the everify system, this is america, unfortunately, everyone wants their cake and eat it took we want to simplify things in government, we have to simpny things make it easy for for american people, and many people are against it. neil: malia? >> well, yeah, i think it is scarey to think about the u.s. creeting this national database, as far add everify, this is interesting to see how many employers are not opting in. to see if their employee are legal, this may be something we can get behind, and work

together,. neil: i am worried about that. you know, i think that with the scandals coming up, this is scary. we know, what happens when government getting too much of our information. neil: wait you -- someone of your bent saying that government can get too big? >> well, right. i think that -- what was it when glenn beck and aclu get together, you know things are too far. neil: katie, all points here, there is -- be careful what you wish for, i notice with various agency with their own i.d. program, we could have a case, i think unlikely, but you have a multiple agencies demanding communication, and they -- documentation. >> why not share one database. neil: too ease gre they should easy. >> they have to have their own system, but, fbi, already has a

huge database, nsa has a huge database, each state dmv has a huge database. it would be nice if they just use one. >> or another idea how to handle immigration, and finding out whether people are you know, legal in this country or not, i think that is important. this is not going to -- >> in arizona argument of supreme court through them out. >> if you look at arizona, they use everything within their power, to actually create their own environment, so they don't have the problem that they are having. they haveuge immigration issues in arizona, instead of going the legal route, get laws changed at a federal level they use states rights -- >> what do youic march supreme court decision -- do you think of supreme court decision. you cannot force them to prove citizenship, i live in new jersey but they ask me proof of

who i am, i have my license. >> right,ny grandmother -- neil: what wrong with that? >> you know, i know that different states. neil: but why is it wrong? it is a sacred right to vote. >> the thing about voting it should be act' aquilla flood -- accessible. neil: it is not a free pass to abuse it, how is showing an i.d. hurt that. >> it is you could call it a defacto poll tax, rid i.d.es cot money. >> come on. neil: you have to have an i.d. wherever you go. >> in with a wi wisconsin almost 30% -- >> you have to show you are who you are to vote. >> whether you show a gas bill

or whatever. neil: katie, what do you think? the supreme court said, arizona you are going too far. >> being from arizona, and living in arizona for more than two decades, i understand the illegal immigration problemmvery well, idea that you don't have so show an i.d. to vote, means we should not have to show ran rid tani.d.to do ga gag else. -- anything else. neil: maybe they kill the i.d. thing. >> for everything? >> in my mind, arizona on the right track, they are trying to police their own problems, but if we as americans can't get behind this single i.d. situation. neil: nsa thing just killed the environment for this sort of thing. >> absolutely. you know, i don't think that voting on arbitrary.

it needs to be accessible. neil: we need an i.d. on get over the i.d. phobia? we'll see you tomorrow as we continue to try to sort this o %-gerri: hello, everybody, i am gerri willis. tonighon "the willis report", important new information yo need to kn. also, the markets cat stop thinng about the feds. we will have theoney moves before this wek's big meeting. and the new det craze sweeping the nation. we are watching out r you tonight on "the willis report." ♪ ♪ ♪ gerri: our top story tonight is to automakers vehi