tion where applied, increased reblood cell count headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in ps ask your doctor about e ly uerarm low t treaent, axiron. neil: not just nsa, when it comes to touching your junk, it seems everybody wants to cop a feel. >> two times in the back, two times in the back. >> we can do it here, if you touch my junk i'm going to have you arrested. neil: web, i am neil cavutt, he may miss the day he could see agents missin mismessing with h, yahoo! saying that u.s. law enforcement agents made up to 13,000 requesty for personal -- in last 6 months this time it was the not nsa as much as national and regional and local law enforcement officials investigating fraud and

homicide, to kidnappings and burglaries, how they assembled ddtabase they did and target the folks they for various crimes, is anyone's guess, but they made thousands requests over 6 months it appears that yahoo! complied and gave to to them, makes you wonder and think, just how many are in on this high-tech phishing? do they jump in any time they want? on any bogus charge they want? fbi to etellinfbi telling congr. is that really it? because it is one thing to say you were collecting data on every day americans. quite another to go after the guy who might not have paid his traffic ticket. in a moment, more on how the fbi is justifying these up instructions.

first. nick gillespie, why so many instructions, it is over the top. >> i think it will south aimous, unfortunately it is -- it is out raioutrageous. one thing that we know about law enforcement besides that most cops and prosecutors are good people, they do follow the law, we know it is always subject, police pour o power of the state is subject to abuse, history tells us, that. we need to make sure we don't allow them to go on phishing expeditions, that is why we have @%urts, that is why we have warns and civil liberties. neil: you know, what is a common pattern whether local level or medium or rejannal or national

level, how often, companies just agree, here, you got it. >> well, i can understand that. i am not condoning it but you can understann it. if you are yahoo!, you know you will be doing some merger activity down the line or looking to build or build out a plant facility, you are like, i'm going to go along to get along, that is part of the problem. this is one of the reasons why law enforcement is so quick to shroud these things in secrecy, saying if we let everyone know the data will not be that useful, they are doing it when it stuff comes to life, people are outraged, we have a right, it guaranteed in constitution, the bill of rights to be secure in our personal effects and our houses and presumptions of privacy that are iron clad, we need to report that -- report,

ttorespectthat people are outrae not going to take it you know sitttng down. a couple years ago, tea party got in congressmen's grill, they refused to talk about what was important to common every day people. the same thing now on the privacy issue. it is a good thing, this is long overdue. neil: thank you, nick. to man at center of nsa ssandal, ed snowden, dismissing dick cheeey's charge he is nothing more than a trade i, calling that -- trader, calls that, and a quote, the highest honor for an ameriian. the up hill battle of this self proclaimed whistle-blower faces just to clear his good name. a whistle-blower in 2006, and

indicted on espionage act, and faced 35 years in prison before federal felony charges were dropped. but not before exhausting all of his retirement savings, mr. drake is joining me now anything at vice for. any advice for ed snowden. >> i believe he is a whistle-blower, i believe he disclosed critical information in the public's interest. it is revealing contures of a systemic surveillance state. neil: you know, here is the difference, i study your case, and certainly for snowden's case, you didn't run anywhere, you stayed in the u.s. and dealt with the harsh fallout, ridiculous fallout. he goes to hong kong. and it has been raising a question even among those who want to believe he is a whistle-blower, doing that

personal freedom thing, he is not, he is doing his thing. >> i think he has legitimate concerns based on my history and others this administration has gone after whistle-blowers, with a heavy hand, utilizing espiage act. given the harsh treatment we received and i faced all decades in prison, i am certainly realized if he remained in u.s. his abum to stay free would -- his ability to stay free would be short. >> you are saying he looked at your case, and others like you, who blew the whistle. and might have lived to regret it. you did itthe looked at your case, said that not going to be me, there were channels were there not at nsa, where he could have done that? it is like he didn't attempt that.

>> i did that myself, that is part of the history that has been published, they were to no avail. i was sensored and suppressed simply for bringing truth about these you know wrong doing and illegal programs and masssve fraud, wait and abuse, i want to congress, and department of defense. all of this history of suppressed, even final report that came out from department of defense office of inspector general that was after my case collapsed under the weight of truth it was redacted. >> you could not even vindicate yourself in public. it does prompt a lot of americans to look at this, how many had or have access to the kind of stuff you did and snowden did, and maybe too many

do. maybb others notice that the phone ecords were being collected, and did not think much of it. and others may be like you, like more snowden, thought that is weird, given snowden the benefit of the doubt on that, jury is still out on that, but, how many do you think just see and hear and look and examine outrageous stuff, and shrug their shoulders and say, well, whatever, and %-go pass the computer databases and do their job? >> that is a long to go a long. they are not going ta raise their voices they recognize if they do, the interral bureaucracy and administration will come down hard on them. this is clear, this administration is extraordinarrly harsh. neil: isn't it ironic, many argue it bowl b.

it would be a complete counter to bush administration, and less intrusive, and much less incline to take patriot act to level its dwhat happened. >> i think that president became enamored by secrecy, and %-his dispos disposal. had at one of the big elephants in the room is, what is this big information being used? is it for monitoring those you don't like. we're seeing that with the irs. neil: it has stopped and thwarted a number of terror attacks, does that give you a more sanguine view of this. >> not atll, t i the o in tyan h behin now i w cllge them, and

many tseereased solel on t progr. ne can i ask you, when and how do you act on something? s 42 proof. all right. they have all of these records, what do they do with records ofn in the nsa or ordered from the nsa, what happens to them? >> they have them, and they keep them as long as possible. this is what is happening we're storing visit amounts of information and extra ordinary secrecy the real issue is potential or actual abuse. talking about largest suspect list surveillance system in

human history. just from verizon alone, about what about the other their numbers this is 100 million plus. neil: you think there are many mooe not just verizon. >> oh, yes, it stretches the bounds of incred allty. like taking white pages, youtiof business names and residential names and sayinggmore the names you see on all of these pages. neil: interesting point, thomas thank you very much. >> your particular. neil: all right -- you're welcome. neil: all right then, big brother or big explosion. these guys, you see on trading floor of new york stock exchange, they are breathing. you are buying? ur fily,

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we help you shine every day of the week. neil: you make the call on this, fbi deputy director, telling congress today that thanks too surveillance programs capitalism is alive and well, literally. among incident thwarted with this snooping, a terrorist attack on no less than new york

stock exchange, one of more than 50 bad things stopped by goodspies doing their job. to terror expert, robert -- and co-chair of new york state teristerrorism task force, all s terror. do you think that all of these that deputy director cited today, were stopped by surveillance programs like this? like collecting over 100 million americans' phone records. >> i think many more were, terrorists look at united states of america, and they say, that i'm going to take a huge risk if i plan to do an attack on u.s. on soil, if we were not as aggressive. if we did not have the aggressive programs in place to identify potential plots, think aboot how easy's soft targ net uus. would be -- soft target

would become. neil: boston was hit. >> it was hit, it was from a local level. you have to remember this is like a 3-legged stool. enforcement operations and drones and surges, and yemen and afghanistan and places, and you are also dealing with intelligence information, which is gathering not only from street level and local communities whether in michigan or new york city. neil: did you envision in those days, we got homeland security going. that par part of the strategy wd be collecting you know tens of millions of americans phone records and sitting on them just in case. >> i knew the program was in place, people in law enforcement knew to some degree, not u.s., they were focusing on target location oversea, they knewal al qaeda oop rahtives were. how do you pick out who is involved here without looking at

numbers in a big way, you are not identifying anybody, you are not going into a wiretap. neil: but you don't need more than a judge to okay collecting records, what bothers me as a someone just's to hang on to some semblence of privacy, how easy i it is to invade it. >> we have to understand that to invade someone's privacy, someone goes into neil cavuto e-mail, and neil cavuto's personal telephone calls, you really need to show probable cause to a u.s. magistrate to get those. neil: you cannot blame people in light of justice deputy targeting reporters and irs targeting conservative groups, there is a pat ern of behavior, each not related to the other, but systematically where privacy are invaded and government does leverage its girth to be big brother. >> i do not disagree, but i am in security business, how do we

keep safe? this is one of the way. neil: looking back to phone records they have them. they are not throwing them out? what are they doing? to me next step circumstance -- step is they will cull people who they want to tap. >> yes, if they find a consistent pattern from new york to yemen for example, they will say what happened? how long have they been going on? a year 6 months, they have to put a case to go, there is no legitimate business, no family relationship. based on phone calls and other intelligence information, they go to a magistrate to listen in. neil: a guy like yoo, you are

trusted and admired on both sides. i would say, that i'm worried about the errant ego-manut, who goes on a witch-hunt out of tte blue, you must have worked with some crazies? >> i look at it this way, i grew up in the government, i understand how it works, there are checks and plans, we heard -- checks and balances, we heard crazy things for last 6 months to a year, for most part, you will get people like that and go outdo something wrong every once in a while. neil: did snowed don't something wrong? >> in my view, he took an oath as an employee. >> what do you make of former

whistle-blowers? they pay for pulling the whistle, he ran off to hong kong to not repeat the same thing. >> look, when you talk with most whistle-blowers, they agree they would have done it a different way, had to do over in terms of career, and personal finances, every one has been hurt, really when you think about it. if they had to do it over, they would have gone it a different way this is the same thing, i am doing it out in the open, i am not going to hire a lawyer, not going to a secret meeting with u.s. congress, i am going to blow this wide open. neil: you don't think he is a hero? >> no, i do not. neil: you think he is a traitor? >> he violated his oath as an agent with a clearance with the government, he was not an agent, he was a contractor with the government, that is essentially the same, he is taking this job, taking the clear answer, and saying he -- clear an, saying he will maintain confidentiality.

they are acting like agents like government officials, they need to honor their clearance, he did not do that. neil: all right. robert good to see you. >> thank you, neil. neil: in meantime, sorry, nsa there is maybe more bad news, proof you were more out of control, than some offyour critics thought. there is some good news, you got company, that want to do what you did. with the s srk miles cd from cital one,

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neil: here s the good news on all these nsa snoopers, they are all but grounds at nsa. now could be bad news, they are setting up shop elsewhere, reports that department of homeland security will stick up the spying baton, for all we know already has, they want in on this listening in. specifically calling for same

sweeping powers that got nsa into so much trouble. with caveat, they won't get into so much trouble. jedediah bila and julie and brad blakeman. what do you make of this. >> well, the homeland security has power to arrest people, this department has become politicized under janet napolitano, they have identified in past certain groups as extremist. people who have a problem with big government is potentially problematic, who is to say, they won't abuse this, right now the public a patience for this stuff, is decreasing. i think that department of homeland security should maybe worry about some border security, if they want to focus on something. >> i just think they should

watch how they treat me, when i go through security minds, not that i mind on some days i'm loney, it is over the top to give them same power that dhs lawyer took. >> it is way over the top, we have enough intelligence services. nsa, cia, fbi, pentagon has their own operation. and but it is very territorial, this is what bush saw, and put to effect director of national intelligence to share intelligence, to make it unnecessary for departments to have their own fiefdoms of intel, we should do more sharing, sharing on a need to know as far as want to know, we have enough intelligence this creates moreover site for congress, they have been distinguish in oversight. having -- deputy i deficient inr oversight. neil: another agency thatments a lot of the same stop, that nsa

had, which others -- so, it is all kind of redundant? >> wasn't homeland security put in place by george w. bush to avoid redundancy, it was created to oversee the agents. neil: you give them all that. >> no, no, you are talking to person that opposed patriot act from the start, i don't think they should do any of this stuff, but it is interesting and ironic that same people who beat the drum, when patriot act when george w. bush was president all of a sudden now are screaming civil liberties. neil: now is it not patriot act it steroids. >> what did they think it was going to be? >> it is out of control. issue is she is right, when you@ start with a -- neil: what do you mean? >> well she is right.

just because you arr comfortable with one administration doing something does not mean you will become -- comfortable with other administrations, you factor that in it can become scary, this was initiated then, the people who supported pay theded paed patrid explain why it has changed. neil: you know, i notice that, we're only one incident away from people forgetting about freedom of speech stuff, and privacy stuff. if we have another boston-type incident this takes to a back burner, i don't know if that is@ right or fair but it is. we'll get back there again if we have another terrorist incident. >> but idea is we should be as thinking about government is

they should be prevents harm, not responding, when it visits us, it is no secret, no formula that we've not been attacked since 9/11 other than we've done things smart. neil: you don't know this is overreach? >> absolutely not, barack obama would like nothing more than to have dismantelled patriot act, but he took the ocea oath of of. neil: you take this as a badge of honor. >> he is doing what a president must do, that is keep america safe. >> i am glad is consistent and i am too,. neil: you would say, when it comes to gathering stuff on morning don'tiver ? >> nope, you to do it but in -- >> where do you draw the line. >> in a blanket way the way that administrations have done it.

iff-- if you are going to tap my phone, go before a judge, explain why. don't just tap it. >> you have to go to the court. >> i'm sorry, the court gave them a blanket permission. not to tap but get my phone records. >> if you don't have reasonable suspicion. >> you are assuming criminality. neil: what is done is done. >> er.everyone soon. neil: is it worth travelling thousands of miles to snap this picture? if you have any doubts wire in a cold war, maybe this photo alone would snap you out of it. we learned a lot of us have known someone who's lived well into their 90s.

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and president of the almost bewildered. -utin just stuffed him, there is no way he is going to negotiate. it was not good. neil: you don't know why they have do this stuff? they are powerful men, they say, we do you mine? @%would have said, i am nnt going to do that? do they have do this stuff? >> they didn't. i would have said, what you said,. neil: that wof was -- enough of, that where do they go? clear they don't flip over each other, clear that putin does not much like idea we'll be arming rebels, he is arms assad government. clear we're opposed on middle east policy, it would be clear to me that this is going o

escalate. >> what do you think? >> well, you are right. it is not bothering putin if we do arm the rebels, we're arming the wrong rebels, we said we would arm general -- who was supported by saudi arabia and qataris that mean they will arm muslim brotherhood equivlength, free syrian passenge army people more secular, they did not pick those, they were give than information. so, putin is going to crush them. and he is put a billion dollars in there, he is not letting this go to waste. they are turning the tide now unfortunately. and we are two years too late, and they put a billion dollars in, our 250 to 500 million is not going to turn the tide. >> you know, general, there are a lot of americans say that after iraq, has so sowerred

americans to -- soured americans on notion of getting involved in other country struggles, they wannopart of it, that is real te that president is swimming up against, not what computer since doing. >> that is my position. so we put resources in there, we're able to make it successful. if we're backing the wrong people, we get what we have nerc in egypt, and in libya. neil: we will never know the right people, so why bother. >> that is a good point, i think we know the right people, but your point, even if you do get the right people, what do you get? look at iraq and afghanistan. we take down iraq. and then we walk out, we give it to iran. what is going to happen now, you and i know that by 2014, we're going to be out of there and for whatever reason, so real leave it where we -- we'll leave it where we found it, this is

bewildering the american people, none of these countries' our democracy, that is very frustrating. neil: you cannot force it down their throats, general thank you. >> thank you, neil. neil: google, walmart, together. even weirder than it sounds. after this. ... to easily move my money when i need to. plus, when i call my localscota, i can talk to someone who knows how i trade. becausi don't trade like everi'm with scorade.ke me. (announcer) scottrade. awarded fivetars from smartmonagazine. vo: ta friend under water isnd something completely different. i met a turtle friend today so,

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i need help selling art. [ malannouncer ] from broadband to web hosting to bile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the securi you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you dohat you do... even better. ♪ neil: you ready to blitz, first you have to decide whether you want to buy, google is teaming up with walmart, other big retailers for chrome book laptops, these machines run on google's operating system, that will take some getting used to, but at $199 a pop, "the price is right." , is the environment right? the customers bite? lori, a good idea for google? >> why not, the pc is on a date march, you -- a death march, you

have laptop. you always have to be logged on and on the internee. they are going low-end retail, listen not everyone can afford to walk into a apple store, pick up a product, case and all extra doo-dahs, why not go low end carve out that market share. neil: do you think that google doing the hardware thing is a smart thing? >> it is genius, it is what microsoft wishes they would have done in 90s, the cheap chrome books are great an entries for the avvrage individual into the world, i call this everything becomes chrome, on your smartphone, you are used to, that now they see the same infer days t -- interface on their

laptop, the makers like samsung, and htc, all those companies, if hardware is issue they will get most of the blame, google does not make all of these laptops. neil: all right from google to giggle? when it comes to frazzled flyer, less frazzled passengers giving mayor u.s. airlines higher satisfaction scores for a second consecutive year. lori, we should point out that sector remains, near bottom of this list, i think internet provider, tv services and maybe financial anchors, that is not a club i want to be in. >> are we travelers or investors? in travelers, the survey went up to 69 this is still a d-grade.

we have usual inconvenients of travelers, but as an investor, have you consolidation. jet fuel has been down. overall it has been down, they are cost-cutting it will help the bottom line, economy showing some life. if you have been on a plane they are jam-packed. neil: how can that be pleasant? jared, i know you don't know what commercial flying is, but how can it be pleasant? >> i am just not, i am a new pilot. i fly privately. neil: listen to you. >> no, no, i wish i could live the life captain of a major airline 30 years ago. you get on a plane now, it is like a cattle ride, we have gotten okay with that, but i don't think that buying an

airline is a good investment, they are bound by the price of oil, they are cutting costs yes, they are making planes more fuel efficient, but again this is predicattd on oil, and communication that changes. neil: but, do you buy that people are happier with this experience, i do not. >> no. neil: i think they are interviewing zombies. >> the plane is full. neil: you could have a blaine full of zombies. >> no matter what you carry, buy the stock, demand it there. >> okay. >> housing starts? you have who to wonder -- you have to wonder with latest housing data. they are still up, 7% over last year, and certainly confidence among homebuilders is strongest in plane years, jared, what about you? betting on a houssng recovery that is sustained? >> okay, tough, there is a lot of unknowns, the biggest is

interests. one thing i found interesting before that building permits they give us a further look out. they showed more strength in single famiiy houses than in big boom -- >> you are saying -- go ahead. neil: i just talk a lot. >> point and i think that this some of the homebuilders, i like companies, they have been beaten down, they had cheaper valuations, i would look at those, it is overcrowded right now, and lumber, a lot of the homebuilders complain, they look at a company like warehouser. i -- weyerhaeuser i would stick to basic. >> part of the reason that prices are rising because inventory is dun is down, thereo

many hooes that should have gone into foreclosure, that have not. i think there is a lot of problems, i think that fed all eyes on fed tomorrow, in bernanke himself will be quick to point out how much improvement we've seen in the home industry, i think this is one everbrigh of -- one of the t spots in our slow recovering economy. but we have a long ways to go. it is regionalized. neil: would he bursts what many would think is a bond market bubble. >> a big point. we're in midst of a housing bubble, interest rate creeping up, maybe they are balancing that out. neil: all right lori, final word, jared thank ou. very much. >> thank you. neil: maybe they heard about how

much goldman sachs back interns were making because some inpaid interns are suing.

neil: let's say not music to warner and atlantic executive's ears. interning suing they were not getting paid. do they have a case? >> what. irwaemployer was doing isusing g as employees, working 40 plus hours a week doing things that work to benefit of a company. the

student benefits and learns somethinn in an educational environment, accords to lawsuit, atlantic and warner brothers actually have a pattern in practice, where they are trying to save money. by using these interns. >> that is for ever employers hire interns, they other then these, love the having a unpaid internship, they get contacts, and information, and inside newsroom or wherever it is. neil: you think if they were to win all these free internships. >> they will begun. every -- they will be, gone. >> a lot of times, a lot of bosses put a lot on the interns it is cheap labor. >> it is unpaid labor, but they get to be able to go to that boss, at end of their summer say, write me a reference, do have you connects in the industry. put it on their resume, better than sitting at home, eating

potato chips. >> i agree to a certain extent. but they are not getting benefits but answering phones. neil: they get out of it when they put into it. what i got coffee for people, i made the best damn coffee. >> that is right, i am sure they always will remember that coffee. >> you were not required to stay there over 40 hours a week? neil: do you believe that. >> she is a lawyer. neil: let's say they have a case. then all of the other unpaid internships that provide these opportunities to young kids, go. they are gone. >> i think what the employer has to do legally is just create a document or attempt let that says -- template that says this is value what you will receive. neil: no one does, that we have a very good internship program

here, they do, they see all facets within a group and where do you want to go into production, it is what they put in to it. >> i have interns that are terrific, i helped them get paying jobs whether they get out of law school. neil: oh, come on, you sue your interns. >> but i have should some that are not so good, it assault they put into it. good ones relish these opportunities. neil: we found, a couple weeks ago goldman sachs paying internses there are certain thousand a month. internses there are -- 7,000 a month, they are thinking some places do pay, we pay a lot. >> just pay something, not paying anything what so ever, and according to what they put into it. neil: they get college credits, in the day, i got credits, and i walked them back from my little

house on the prairie schools, and a showed them my credits. >> they are not getting credits here. neil: back in my day you got credit. >> they are not getting academic credit, they are getting a resume, potential to tap into people they are working for, all people learn about the industry, and get that 9. neil: that means little to you, people who are unpaid at fox, that is not getting paid but just hanging out with me. >> like that intern have you back there just hhnging out. neil: i now know, where imus does not have interns, thank you very much. in detroit, they are digging for jimmy hoffa, and a clue. so far no sign of either. how the money problems in motown are on their way over town. you mt gar's father? hello.

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neil: motor city tightening the investor screws. you see detroit on the brink, a lot of those investors are complaining they are getting will shaft, claiming that city is more interested in zapping bonnholders than union members. bottom line, most think that detroit's take it or shove it offer to debt holders will hole and stand firm and be a signal for other financial basket cases in the future. jedediah, what do you make of this? >> pension issue is out of control. we've seen this in numerous cities, we've seen scott walker try to do something about that. a lot of people want to reform the system. but they don't want it to apply to them, same thing with entitlement reform all of the

time. the philosophy is just don't touch my stuff. whether or not they can infringe upon what people already are accessing we don't know. but for people in the future, and future money, they have to do something,. neil: i see a lot more interest in screwing investors than anything after union pensions and the like. i want to stress they are trying to rein in. >> absolutely, screwing investors who may not be living in your city or state is not proper attitude to take if you -ver are going to come back. neil: you will never get those investors back. >> slight not, but states have a hire interest than federal government in my opinion in backing up their cities, first line of defense is for the state to come, help their city, and if

all else fails then federal government but not without condition, there has to be tough love, which comes with a budgeting that starts at pensions they are unstannible. neil: i worry about be careful who you tick off. i think a way they were screwed i think that what happens is we change contract law, and all of a sudden, people then would be less predisposed to invest in sick cities. >> i tell you, i agree with everything that jedediah and brad said, what you are thinking -- >> who do you agree with more? >> jedediah, it is girl power. but, i will say this, the problem is, you have a contract that you signed with the pension owners, you -- >> kno unsustainable.

>> you are right, contract law is contract law. neil: are you a lawyer? >> no, i play one on tv. >> we have a force that is dejouring us. >> you and i for example, if we got our contract revoked we would expect -- you can't. neil: don't use me. you can go too far with it. >> you look at detroit and constitution it say nas the benefits that are earned, quote shall not be diminished or impaired, these are contracts. >> investors are only ones who stand to lose something, because no one guess into with a guarantee. >> that is investing, isn't it? >> it. but it is sad, if you get capital to go to sick cities or cities in deep trouble, something like this is not going to entice it.

>> you are right, going forward, governors have tried to do something about the pensions going forward. they are unsustainable. i hope there was an acceptance. neil: there is not, not in detroit. but not enough. >> you are right. >> often times, what happens is you raise taxes, and other things that hinder the quick the economy of those cities and states. neil: on local level, state level, national level, we don't ever get the guts to did the thing we need to do. >> we don'', we see that in kicking the can down the road, with 17 trillion in debt, we're unable to get an annual budget, we do not set a good example federal level. but it is up to the local efficients to solve their own -- officials to solve their own problem. if they can't, then the federal government steps in. but there has to be fiscal responsibility. i believe in freedom of contract

but when they are so onerous they can't be honored, there has to be some give and take. neil: a mess, thank you all. we will see you tomorrow. gerr hello, everyone, i am gerri willis tonight on "the willis report", why did it take so long to get tion on n this fire risk of jeep vecles? and y know where your mone is really goingng? and amtk. dishing out lavish m meals and u are taking g up the ab. >> we are watching out for you tonight on "willis report." ♪ ♪