listen live show. we're on every week day from 3:00 to 6:00. we'll have another great tv show are next week, in the meantime, i do hope to hear you on the radio. thanks for being with . e nation prevailed in asserting its interest in the summit in northern ireland and it w not the united states. two days of talks at the g 8in bellfast and a one hour discussion between presidents obama and putin on syria turned out to be an 'em brrsment for the president. the call was for assad to step down and a condem nation of assad after putin incestsisted e

is nohemical regime as the obama white house claims. present obama's foreign pli looks ineasingly muddled and confus particularly and most urgely on the issue syria. on t eve of that summit the obama said it would be sending smallrms tothe rebels so of whom have dgerous ties to al qaeda but in an interview which was taped lt sunday president obama denied his policy on syria had changed at all. with a penchant for e inconsiste, he warned about a deeper involvement in the syrian civil war. >> isery easyo slip slide your way into deeper and ddeper commitment because if it's not workin immediately, then what ends up happening is s months from now people say, well, you

gave the heavy ar tilry and now what we need is x a now what we nned is y. cause until assad is defd in this view, it's never going to be enough, all right? >> so for now the president ses ctent to offer aid d that aid by the way is beginning to add up. president obama pledging another $300 million in humanitaan assistance, half of which will be sent to syria and half will be divided between refugees and native country. which means thee total to re than $800 mion, mst of the money committed over the p past two months and any resolutionn syria will have to wait until peace tas wch have been scheduled for next month in geneva are to be held before augu. the president still hasn't given a clear defense of thesa and

surveillance programs and for that matter neither has congress my firstguest, general alexander said -- arew mccarthy is the author of the best sellers, jihnd the grand fever. nice to have you with us. general alexander w forth right it seemed. ade a compelling case and even since in that committee th the heing room the commite was growing up a little. i didn't hear what congresan ship started giving thh general valuable advice i'm sure but it seemed more mature than it's been >>ou have a real adult who was in complete command of the facts and ihink made the most compplling defense of this program. now, i don't think it will be enough because there's nothing

lilike the bully pulpit and as effective as general alexander is, he's not the president. these programs rely need the defense of theval office and specifically psidentbama. >> the president's defense of his admintrion, this agency, roseo this level. he tought it was pretty transparent, the prism program. what does heneed to be effecte in the defense of nsa and his own adminisatio >> anything but transparent but i think after five years with the , passty of this administraon transparent is the butt o a joke thatwill be fective in the dicourse. he nee to explain mu like general alender did why we need these programs and what the structural civilliberties protections are in them because the run away freight train re is that people who are opposed to the program and saw the issue

as a way to religate everything they lost wn the patriot act was authorized, have stolen the narrative here and basilly have people thinking at the inlligence community is actively spying o americans. >> i think today -- iff i'm corrt in sensing some higher level of maturity on the part of the committee. perhaps it's about to ebb. they of urse alws have the reinforcing value of the national mediaiven the politics of the maer. but hopefully we'll see more attention paid to the chinese cyber attks inhis cotry than on tryi to take up the time of those who are lding the effort to protect the country and its infrastructure. let me turn to the g 8 summit in bellfast. the president talked awa sically slapped around by putin. it was an abysmal performance

r the united states. >> how could it be anything but though. you have ideological progress sifs who think that the way to condt thforeign policy is not to be guided by the compass of our own vital interests but to be part of a cunity which we recruit countries that are hostile to the united states verch included russia and give us a veto and that is largely because we're living in barack obama's world and which is the result of it. >> andwe wilbe doingo for some time d in the matter days we'll be taking up direct talks, the united states will, with the taliban, o a resotion in afghanistan. i me, this turns our history, our foreignolicy for decades

on its head and leads where? >> it leads to where common sense takes you which is that a war has a winner and a loser and if you don't stay in it to win it, you lose. a lot of wha has gone on from the president's speech about how he's's basically declaring that the war is over without having to dohe hard work to end it in a positive way, they're trying to dre this up into something other than a humilting defeat for the united states. >> andrew mccarthy, good to have you with us. >> thank you. >> what should edward snowden with treated with? ♪ur analyst judge andrewgógógógó

joining us now fox news senior judicial analy judge andre napolitano. judge, edwardnowden has brought the world down arnold his head by stepping out on this. some people deribe him as a hero, others as a trait. where are you? >> i have described him as an american hero when i first learned this and i continue to stand by that position. if he did what he said hedid, if he is the person who revealed althe government's constitttional behavior, he's confronted with the follong. an oath to keep secret the informationhe was given, on oath to uphold the constitution and a clash between the tw so what do you do? which is higher? his oath to keep sret or his oath to follow the constitution.

the constitution is the supreme laof the land. he has a moral and constituonal obligation to reveal it. >> you used the pothetical, if. there ar a lot of hypothetils in this. righnow i don't know spifically what he's charged. i haven't heard it from m. >> i don't think any -- what he's charged or been charged with? >> what he is charging. represents a violation of th constitution or law. it's unclear. as you step forward and others have to call him a hero, does it give you some trepidation the timing because we are in a eculative era, the timing of his revelations which wiped away a two y summit between the president of the united stat and the president of china. his presence in hong kong and his arges that thenited states was hacking chinese locatis and facilities, does

that a give you any s quiet? >> it doest trouble me at all. the timing of the revelation was set by the reporters to whom he spoke. he's been speing to them for long time. secondly, i reject the idea that we should dwell on him,is background or his motivation. we should dwell on what the government has done to us in our name. you used interesting phrase, whether this is legal or constitutional. they're different. >> i used both of them. >> you did. i'd likeke to dwell on that for moment. the congress thinks it can write any law and regulate any behavior and tax any event in congress's mind whatever it says is legal is legal. but because the constitution restrain them, prohibits a search warrant for 113 million americanhen they are looking for two or three, it's unconstitutional. when thegovernment has done legal because the patriot act auorizes it but unconstitutional because the congress has attempted to

disregard the constution. >> it will be interesting to se wheryou come down when all the facts are known. >> we learn me facts every day. e do and i can't imagin why one wouldn't be dis quieted but you're a man of courage and intellect. >> you mean it takes courage to hit here? >> not a all. >> i'd like tome back when we learn morr about it. >> you've got a dealand we will make it frequently the white house overloaded with scandals. we'll show you why the alec, for this mission i upgraded your smart phone. ♪ right. but the most important feature of all is... the capital one purchase eraser. i can reem the double miles i earned with my venture card to ase recent travel purchases. d wi a w clis, this missioneve hapened. uh, what's this buttono? [ electricitzaps ] ♪

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>> there's a while during the president's first term it seemed he could do no wrong in the eyes of his suppoers, at least the national media as well. now the obama white house scandals are coming at such a furious pace nearly everyone seems to have a problem with at least one of ose controversies and scandals. take a look at just some of these. one, the internal renue service, if you y taxes you miiht be a little upset with them whether it's because th

targeted conservative groups or spend milons of dolrs on confences. the liberal national media is over this scandal byhe way. the big three networks have go from havg 96 stories about the irs in the first two weeks when the scandal broke to one story this week. we have a little pblemith the y they approach things as you might guess. if you happen to believe congress has the right indeed the obllgation tonow what our government is doing at home and abro abroad, you may be offended the administration's mine month stone wall on benghazi and roger ails put it ell when he said, quote, i've come to the conclusion that i don't even care what the president of the united stas was doingthat night but iould like to know what the commander in chief was doing that night. if you believen the first amenent, thereedom of the

press, the white house's sweeping record seizure of documents, should cause your blood to boil over along with the associated press intrusion. fourth, if u are one of those crazy cstitutionalists a actually belie in the second amendment and yourrights, you might be upset to learn vice-president biden is rebooting his push forun control next week so you can look forward to that. if you believe in the national interest and plain spokenness from the president's administration, you may be curious as to why this white house won' characterize snowden as an outright traitor. perhaps at the h on tthe idea that it's just a coincidence th nsa leaks came at the same time the president was holding summit with the chinese counter part on chinese cyber ttacking. you haven't seen a story about it at all in the wake of these

leaks. six, if you get fired over men's rights and abuse of power, tis administration in general will bet you're revoeltd by acsation thathe state department covered up accusations into sexual consult and prostition. 7, if you believe the obama's administration's claimshat they wou be the most transparent in history, it probably ticks you f that political appointees and head agencies have been using secret e-mail accounts t conduct official government business. we'll find out more surely. so the predent has l these scandals going on and he doesn't even have a nicame like tricky dick nixon or slick willie clinton. this president does it seems need a nicknam given all this. we thought it would be interestinto invite you to share ideas as towhat that

nickname would be. e-mail me lou at loudobbs.com. by the way, just to get you started, our executive producer came up with theirst idea, we've already discounted it. his offeringwas the bamboozler. pretty good, ght. let's hear your ideas. presidt obama and putin agreeing to disagree on syia. agreeing to disagree on syia. what's next for the co there is a pursuit we all share. a better liffor your family, a better opportunity for your business, a better legacy to leave the world. we havalways believed in this puuit, striving to bring insight tovery investment, and integrity to every plan. ware morgan stanley. and we're ready work for you.

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oh, you have any of those ? here we go. thk you. he took my shield, my lady. these e troubling times in the kgdom. more discounts than we knowetwhat to do with. now that's ogressiv >>or mor n on the different pepectives on syria from the prident's putin and obama, we welcome now fox news middle east dr. waleed and fox news litary ntritor. we thank you for being with us.

this meeting amounted to what as they declared they had different perspectives and basically reed to disagree? >> well, that's what they've done in northern ireland. th reality on the ground is different. on t ground you hhve a very gressive syrian regime as we heard in thentroduction the irans across syria. on the other hand an unstoppable al qaeda penetration of the opposition. so the only group with whom we can partner is noweing weakened. that the free syrianan army and the secular people ofhe free syria army and we don't have a syria pla we have a syria step after step but we don't have a comprehensive strategic plan far. >> general, we'reistening to senator mccain, senator graham and a handful of others but primarily from the republican party saying that we've got to get involved, tere haso be a

no fly zone. we have to start arming these rebels. it is a peculiar thing in shingtonhat is erupting for support for another conflict in the middleeast. your thoughts? >> i don't thinkhey know what they're talking about. they're talking about supporting general e dress and ease not the one at we just talked about. dr. paul, a former fox military analyst has met on two occasions and ey are secular. th are the ones we need to help but we're talking about arming the wrong people. as fars a no fly zne goes, lou, the only no fly zones are in the united stes ov our air basiwhere we've gounded one third of our tactical air and now they want to crank it up. we aren't readiness-wise prepared to d this. could we do it, sure but it

would be a great cost to us. it's not going to happen with this administration because ey do not have a serious strategy on what to do with syria and what our goals are. that's the very worrisome thing. >> it's a about unconceivable that thenited states wit the ve same leadership that s led us to the result in iraq and afanista that the ameran people a even a would think of the strategs in command. >> we don't have a stomach for it, the public doesn't have stomach for it. >> let me be clear. i wasn't talking abo having the stomach for it but the good judgments intelligence, i'referring to the american

people, to tell failed leaders don't both. >> you have a point. we are not yet talkingo the right people. if we want to do anything about it, the administration maximum goal at this point in time is to bring back some sorof balanc of power between the oppositi in general without defining what is the oppositionnd the assad regime inhe hope to take everybody to geneva where the ruiansre waiting there not to help us and giv us a veto. that roais not going to be a solution. the other critique coming from inside whington, fm som members of congress is that we're going to do an all outno fly zone over syria. the general was right when they sa there are commders of the fsa who arsecular. they should be invited to

washington, not istanbul, but to congress and clarify what syria ww're going to see after assad if at all. >> taing with the chief of staff in the united states air force some years ago he point out to me that we have had our air powe eaged, at that time it was some years ago, but now it's 22 years that we have had our airpower engaged and no fly zones, inombat whether it's now in afghastan. this has been an unprecedented persistent use of air power and air force that has been taken to itslimits. has it not? >> absolutely. inhose 22 years we' worn a lot of the equipment out. we have not modernized the f 22 which would be ablutely reired in syria if the russians put in the 300 service missile. you have to be steth if you are

doing to survive in that. fdamentally we have 100 f 22s that are capable of operating in this regi. overhis time frame we've continued to draw down the number of squadrons that we have. we've put them in the bone yard through sequestration and other budget uts. lou, you are spot on. weave over the last 22 years, we're not th same air force that weere 22 years ago. >> and we're deploying f16s to jordan. i'm not entirely sure what will the rult of tht. we a looking at continued cremental steps toward ratcheting up at least the potential for conflict. what wld be the outcome if we do engage in russia and are we prepar foruch a conflict? is this commander in chief prepared for such aconict? >> don't have an aner to

that. what i can say is there is no strategic plan. there are three conditions for our suess insyria. number one to partner with the right people. we wt to see them in ington. number two, we ne to tell quarter and the other arab sps stop funding and three, we need to be prepar for confrontation with he's bulla and iran. >> general, u get the last word as we watch presiden putinnd obama me to no conclusion in their meing. >> president putin wants to humiliate president obamand if president obama doesn't understand that he's going to be humilia humiliated. radical are being unded in thi particular venture so the moderates are not getting the

funding they need. we've exposesed ourselves to a combination of challenges that if we do setng we have to go in big time andhe american peoplehave not been explained about why we should go do this and we do not have a strategy that would support that struure to go in and try to resolve this problem. it is not a very goodecision that we've left the american people. perhaps the israel are going to have to pull it out themselves. >> gentlemen, tnk you very much. the irs scandal targeting conservative groups, delaying applications, playing politics and maybe, maybeommitting felonies. jay every parent wants the safest and althiest products for their family. that's why i creed the honest company. i was just a concernedom, with a crazy dream. a wish that there was a company that i could rely on,

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>> my next guest is representing 25 conservative organizations

that are suing the irs claiming their constitutional rights were violated. joining us now is jay sekulow, chief counsel for the american center for law and justice. good to have you here. >> thanks for having me. >> this is a monumental if i may say, monumental lal action to go after thenternal revenue service. you're going to have jacob lou, steven miller, holly paas and other unown irs officials. how did you determine them >> the reason we listed those individuals, we based on the information that whad during the processf examination hen these groups were trying to get tax exempt we knew who we were dealing with. steve miller said he had no idea, he couldn't remember anybody's names. i had the agent's names, the

letters from lois lerner. we named the complaint. those whoad knowledg of or actual engagement in the unlawful acts of the irs. we have listed ten or more unknowns. until we do the discovery we're not going to kn how deep or high up it went. we're going to be amenng that complaint in the next week or ten days, aing another 25 organizations and additional counts in the complaints, some areas that we have's since leard that we're concerned about. it is a monumental undertaking. we filed a complaint that says you unlawfully targeted. normally they would say denied. how are we going to deny it because we attached the statements wheree admitted it.

>> the response from lois lner in particular, not only an acknowledgment and admiion of guilt but then an apology which compounds i wou ink the evidence on your behalf. >> it does. i mean, t fact that she made the admission and we gothe inspector general's report where they acknowledge and uncover the targeting. they keep calling i targeting but targeting is a violation of the constitution. you cannotarget someone based on their viewpoint. i have doneemultiple cases on that. i said this the other day on your broadcast. i think thers is stitutionally inpable self-correcting. this afternoon the irs pled on administrative lea two more offials, one in charge of the obama care, affordable cre act enforcement. the agey in complete meltown in my view. what needs to happen, i think

they should scrap th whole internal revenue cord but short of that we need stice for our clients that these unconstitutional acts op. you talked about cnges, damages to claims that haveo be satisfied here by an agency of the federal government that under our constitution is supposed to be serving the american people, not targeting them. it's clear that they were doing precisely that through their own admission. what damages will you likely succeed or do you want to succeed inecovering from the until revenue service for yur clients. >> they need theirexetions. a number of these groups before we got involved incurred substantial legal fees trying to comply wh these questionnaires that were comin fromhe irs. they need reimbursement and we

have clients that have lost grants. we talked abouttthis before, this particular grp that was picked up in this dragnet of the irs. they weren't a tea party group but a conservative organization an they were picked u in this dragnet and ended up losing a grant of $30,000. thathere's real damages here and then of course there's the getting the government to stop because despite protests to the contrary, jay carney's statements to the contrary, the reality is on may 26 of 2013 we received another letter from one ofur cents with ridiculous questions. the process has not stopped and we need to get the government to correct itself and without a court order tey're not capable of doing. >> jay, thas for joining us. the ranks need to follow the right organization ward some satisfaction or justice against the irs and the federal

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apple, yahoo! googl and microsoft all nowlaim that they knew nothing about the so called prism surveillance program,ut our next guest says we've already given up control of data and platforms to the very companies under discussion. joining us to discs whether or not we have any control at all over our privacy and security on the web, bruce mier. he's a security expert and author of liars and ouiars.

bruce, it's great to have you th us. i think that as a security expert you probably have the best opportuni to explain to us why anyone should not start laughing outloud when google and ple and facebook start tking about they deserve more respect from us because th have just a fe thsand request is from nsa and other agencies when they are the ones taking our personal ad private information and dis sem nating it across the web, aren't they? >> we araef giving it to them. it's not that they're taking it. the nsa has to dowith them taking it. we're giving it these companies. in some ways that's the way the web works. they need us to trust them with our daa, our friends, our photos, but their real business is betraying that trust to vertisers. that tirusiness model.

they try to hide it someat. they're transparent somewhat but they really rely on us not noticing. the fact that they had a ust one betraying us the more thing. >> i'm curious about this because -- by the way, i didn't say at the companies took the inrmation. i said they dis sem nated it various ways across the web. that is the business model. facebook in particular doesn't care what your privacy preferences are. they'reoing to do what they will. i find that utterly maddening at people are bung that posture most nquestned. >> there's a conflict of interest here. these are the very same types of correlations that you seen prism that facebook and google andothers do to better serve

u ads. the difference is going to be the false positives. if google makes a mistake, they

i think it's going to be for a while. that is the way the world works. if you pick a company at random data is in the icloud y're trusting them. you're giving them all your data. there's a reason you do it but you hope that there are interests aligwith yours. in a lot of these cases, facebook is an example, google, u're not their customer. you're their product they sell to their customers. so the norm customer vender relationship doesn't apply in the same way it's the fact that we are increasingly the product, that our data is the product makes us real into search for these companies prucing data that they use to sell to advtisers and to the government. i think you makas i said a scinating point. bui think we have to persist in tha int an extend it out

as far as we can. you talk about we make this tradeoff about our privacy, for convenience of thealignment of intest. wh could be a greater alignment of interest than e nsa and aoverent that is acting in our interest to protecus from terrorist,or a greater convenience than to still be alive at the end of a y thanks to this broad surveillance program. there's a certain political, if you will, group in this country identifiable, easily ideified that reallhates the nsa ding prisely what gogle and facebook are doing. but in each instance their acts are almost analogousn both the alignment as you say of interest and the convenience, the tradeoffhat is not always consciou not always understood by conservatives.

>> right. this is what we need to understand. the question is what'seing do and how effective is it? we are the taxpayers. we are the ones who pay for this, o make that tradeoff. soe need to be told how effective these programs are. there's been a lot of wheezeng. they might have been effected in some things. examples given have turned out to be false. we d kow whether these programs do any gd. weon't know how much they cost, is this a good use of our money? they're very unlikely to be effective. this i iwhy seccy is bad. we need to know what the government is doing, understand what they're doing. if they're doing a good job, great. if they're doing lousy job we need to fix it. this is what snowden did that was so good. he gave u information about

what the government is doing in our name with our money. t's find out if it's effective. we have neve seen a case at's effective or cteffective. >> why an't people challenging the businessodels in the aggregate ahigh concentrated and powerful group of companies that could as easy b called like facebook, microsoft and -- did i ntion facebo? let me do it again. ese are disturbing inconsistencies and contradictions when we start to look at those. we start to lay bare something else everybody should aware of and that is the politicsf those who are most exercised about, say, the nsa and those beginning to get etty exercised out corporatesho are really driving the virtual world in which we find great experience and value.

>> there arewo reasons. one i mentioned is ttat the harms are less great. being shown a wrong ad because you're misclassified is different than being investigated because you're misclassified. >> whoa, wait a minute. it'slmost ubiquitous privacy is being invaded by the corporates. there is a very narrow, small number who are being investigated by the government. they are not analogous on either size, scale or incident, but we're ing to have to pick this up because, bruce, as you said, we cou talk for -- come on back and let's continue the conversation. i think it's a fascining perspective you ing to it and we appreciate you sharing your insight. comen back. >> thank you. >> bruce nyer. up next we're going to be talking about the brand new book, the founding

conservatives, troubles at the creation a howur founding fatherdealt with them and the fatherdealt with them and the people who brought this man is about to be the millionth customer. fatherdealt with them and the people who brought would you nd if gohead of you? instead we had someone go ahead of him and win fiy thousand dollars. congratulations yoare our one millionth customer. nobody likes to miss out. that's why ally tats all their customers the same. if your bank doesn't think you're special anymore,h. you need an al. allyank. your money needs an ally. [ slap! ] [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight backast with tums.

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♪ lou: a new >> a newoosheds light on some lesser kno conservates who helped secure freedomuring the revolutionary w. joining me now is david lefer, professor at nyu ae polytechnic stitute. author of this book the foundin conservatives, now group of sung heros saved the american revotion. congratulations on the book. >> thank you it's an honor to be here. >> we wish you the ery best of this book, be a massive success. i love the subject and your thking on it. let's start with you point out the thre main arguments. i'd like to go through them quickly. the founding conservative saved

the american revolution just as important as you said but who were these conservatives first and why hn't much until now been made of them? >> it's the remarkable story and the history of the american revolutions itself a fascinating subject that we go on and on about. they saved the american revolution in multiple ways. robert morris single handedly financed the army. without him tharmyod have grounded to ahalt. you have james wilson and governor morris who wrote large parts of the united states constitution. these founding fathers are well known to historians but they have pretty much been totally left out of popular histories. >> ifind fascinating yoay we shouldn't be looking too much to briton, the united kingdom as the foundation for conservative thought and philosoph but rather, you say thathe fst

modernconservative was british statesman edmond burke. >> most histories trace the conservativism back to burke. i discovered that everying burke stood for and said was said a dade and a half earlier by the american founding 3 c1 conservatives. it struck me as strange and fascinating that conservative similar that is all about heritage doesn't know its ownn har tank. >> the thinkers, the intetuals, thomas jefferson, a conservative? >> he was far more radical. one of the most rprising things i discovered in the book is john adam was quite radical throughout the revolution. he changes his thinking toward the e of it. >> conservativism itself, give

us your viewtoy of what statement its in. i have to tell you, i can't always recognize a conservative. >> i think these conservatives i write about offer two lessons. e first is tt they compromise, they fought tooth and nail for this country, let me emphasize that. they fought tooth a nail for this country. they mpromised for the go of the nation. they put patriotism befe politics. they were facing a world of changing definite aphics. theyey were losing voters as fr men from the lower classes and the middle classes, the right to vote. these conservatives started losing their vote. theyad toffer one thing to get their te. th was prosperity. they said we will bring free market capitalm to america. it will make the people strong and rich. >> tse modern conservatives as we look around us, prososper us brilliant, engaged?

>> conservatives face a simil tension today, how do you deal with the complaining lector at and stay levant. >> we're going to seehat answered. you.