censative. people have to keep eating no matter what. >> ben, what do you like? >> if you are on the same team sign up >> he's been w writing and freedom continuesor a place for business. that is alys right, fox. >> you help us and we'll help you. head of the national security agency asked in congress to give legal immuneitty to pivate companies. should angry customers like you able to sue those companies if they are wrongfully targeted. >> h everybobody. welcome to forbes on fox. we'll go with steve and rick and rich and elizabeth and sabrina and john. john, ould customers like us be able to sue in >> yes, we should be. companies should not be helping the federal government to snoop on us. we have to ask ourselves how much liberty we are willing to

give up in order to create the false ilsion of security. to live in a fro society, rsks arvolved. the risks e worth to to have what we have. >> steve, if i am buying a service and i don't wnt them to share the service th the vernment should i be able to sue them if they do against my will? >> companies for a impossible positi. if they help out the governme they are snooping on privacy. if they don't help out the government they are helping terrorist. the focushould be on the government and labuses,on't brg in compies that are doing the bt and caught in an impossible position. >> sabrina, the government made some of the companies their partners. >> we are takingant step to national socialism if our mpanies claim immuneitty. the vernment doesn't need to own the means of production for uso be in a precarious

posion. before we are in a bad position in thesociety. >> rich, what do you think? >> well, look, i would remind my good friend john and sabrina who a are, terrorism i is rl. we did ts d the telecoms got immuneitty in the bush administration. this is not new and it is needed. companies are putin a impossible position. nemac, i't it time to rethink this? >> yes. >> now we know the extent? >> i agree with scombraup here's why. the governnt stinks because you can't sue e government. but theay the government is writing the law, there is a bill beforehe senate thatf a company passes incorrect information, how do they on on they can be begin muneitty

from lawsuits. how do you define that information. the nsa can stor that information five years that you think might be important. india and the middle east and asia and countries putting the onus on gooble and facebook to give or information. how will you stop that if you stop lawsuits from stping the practices. >> rick, none of us like the collusion between the government and private sector, ist suing and giving the customers the right to sue one of the only ways out? >> maybe, but there is something erody is missinghere, its not just the companies deciding to go along with the government. they e actg pursuanto a urt order. they have to do it because they are ordered by the court to do so. that being the case by the way, we are overstating the immuitty thing. i suspect they are following the order of the court theywill not

lose a lawsuit anyway. it dissdes the >> you are talking like a lawyer. are you in favor orot of giving customers a chance for suing. >> it is not a happy answer fo you. in some cases it is in favornd in cases iam not. >>jn, i tnk rich said the most provokative thing here, you shouldn't be in favor of a suicide in protecting our individual rightand that ouldn't allow us to draw the government. how do you respond to that? >> i think when we accept security we get paralysis fr thgovernment. we have lot was federal entities telling us that stimulus and i makes the economy groechlt they

say we are safer here. i continuing is an embarrassment and sends a messageround the worl that the championof lirty is moveothing t wrong direction and a bad step for the united states. >> steve, isn't there a danger of sitting back and letting the government decide? >> one of the legitimate functis of government is protecting us from external enemies and e constution was written by framers who understood that governments that protect you can abuse you. take it out on th government. rich hit on something. if the company has in writing a certain order or request, and the stute is cited, the company is bligged to do it. ifou don't like the w chae the law. >> we want to stop the bad guy companies can stop the government saying we are getting a ton of lawsuits on our doorsteps and in india, they are allowing tax officials with access to google and facebook

data. >> the irs is different. >> india is pressuring to have government officials on-site at research in motion. >> by e way, hold on a second sabrina. why is the irs different? >> it is internal tax collection and how much money we owe the govement and the abuses of the irs. this is about our security. again, this is an issue with the government. >> i understand that. we ha focused on how all of the irs scandadals are. but sabrina, the fact is, even though it is national security we are entrusting the same people with sensive information and that gives me the willies. >> it should give you the willies. i have seen no evidt that all ofhe big data is keeping us safer. in point the haystack gets so big we'll not fnd the needle. it is all of the megadata tat is keeping us fer.

i agree about civil liberties. >> let me go back to rich. return on investment, is there a proof that it is safer? >> i give theenefit to the doubt to the people in the trenches looking at terroris threats that are coming through. here is another factor, the u.s. is a letiggous socie. noor initiating a lawsuit and compans like google h tens of billions on the balance. it is a magnet for frivolous lawsuits if people sue google. >> i think that is right. but look, we have to be careful here. sabrina said it is no proof it did good. can you say that if you want to disbelievehat the nsa is saying. i am not telling you you are wrong calling then liars, but you know what, maybe it has saved. >> steve, let me ask you this

though. if a gu like snowden can get access to a lot of sensitive information, isn't that a problem? >> we have faud election and so get rid of election. you deal with specific problems and abuse asks that's what the congressional hearings are for and find out if this thing is work and this changes we ake. don't put companies in the grnede because of it. >> last thought from the boss. and subsidies interest ras. >> and one percent rate hike ou

back to rbes on business. ndouble trouble. less than ten days interest rates on student loans may go to 2 to 6 pcent. law makers are rushing to strike a al to keep the subsidy going. and on t flip side rich said let the rates double, why, rich? >> well, look. we are looking at trillion in student loan default 6.8 percent probably way too low. college costs a lot. i went and was able to go to stanrd uversity, but only after i spt two years in a community college three blocks from my homeand while i live at home.

i spent nothing myirst two years anhave a degree from a nice college. there are so many ways today to cut the costs of education without causing taxpayerso do the loans. >> it is a subsidy and interest rates are based on ck. and student loans have a lot of risks. >> i don't want to get to be all bleeding heart. i disagree with rich. it is about this to me, if you create a situation whe only people with a lot of money go to the tter schools and let's face it they are the most ebs pensiv schools. ivy league school costs a lot of money. what does it do to the country only people who can affo it gothere. >> it is hard to get in. >> steve orbes, i hate tobe personal about it and i got in colombia in graduate and i went to northweern and i did well.

i had to make a choice based on how much i could afford, ist that tural, steve? >> it is, david and people have to make the tradeoffs in terms of ivy's. tuititions are sky rg is institutions feel charges $60,000. we have to crge that or people don't ink we provi good information. >> penny-wise and dollar flush. this is what it is about where student loans are concerned. two reasons not to let interest rates rise. we are only talking about subsidized staffer loans. it is pd for by the government. they are essentially raising the rates on taxpayers and more spending by taxpayer and the second reason, unsubsidized an private loans. they arealready at 6.8 percent terest rates and not making a difference on the college. >> sabrin we are not talking

about pennies, we are talking abt millions and billions of dollars. the entiretudent loan program could lead to debt f taxpayers. >> it is the entire student loan problem we are talking about. it is govnment intervention that allows them to drivup the tuition costs to obscene levels that push out on kids that afford them. anwe have people whowe more in student loanebt than in credit card debt. this is interesting the job market today. we have a 1 trillion worth of student loan debt. that is unheard of for a country like this. >> bill, sometimes the subsidized government loans leverage up the price for everybody? >> yes, you don't have toucker punch the students. it is anher way to get taxpayers f of thehook. you have the colleges guarantee the debts. they will be more careful about

burying peopleith graduation debts. and they give not valuable degries like anthropology. >> wt about putting the onus on the colleges than the taxpayers. >> yeah, i think that is a pretty good idea. bill finds a bank shot to make a good argumen i would go back to the point with on line opportunities and the underused community college resources in this country. so many ways for people to bring down cos and have a first-classeducation. >> morgan, youant to get in? >> seen the republics propose tying interest rates to the treasuries which we do with all of the other types of loan interest rates. >> but the problem with that, steve. as we mentioned before, they are risky loans and very often for

the studen loans, we don't have a credit history like we do for other loans and that's why they are ricky. nsabrina is right, we have to see it as the whole thing. the government is driving up college costsnd has kids leavingchool like a pion servanthat are working for the government instead of having a great career. they start the mortgage witut a house. >> i think it gives total proof for my argument. twpeople sitting here and very ccessful and smart and both anthropology majors and both of whom had student loans. >> wait a nute, rick. >> i had to go to the cheaper scol. i made the decision and i ended up doing prey well. >> yes, you had to get a student lo to do it. >> rick pointed out twoears the community college and got a good education and didn't spent xroo 50 or hundred

thousand dollars. >> i think any american would say something isrong here. >> what has sarah pallen all fired up. you are trying to soak uphe sun and congress is looking to sock it to you by taxing all of the airline fees. the airline fees. get ready to be @í0x;ñt

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ta about afee for all. as if the extra charges were not enough now the gernment wants to tax a tax on top of the fees. airline fees get hit with taxes and apparently that is t enough for the greedy tax man. steve, you say enoug already. >> absolutely, there used to be a restaurant that said too mh is not enough which ishe motto for the federal government. they are not using the money for upgradg air track controller. it is enough to feed the feeding binge. this idea needs tocrash. >> we pay too much taxes as it is. >> steve, this one will make your life easier. uniform tax on all airline rvices, they would have the

sense to he high ticket prices and free checked bags and then we wouldn't have a half an hour agony why they try to stuff steamer trunks in the overhead. nemac, we are paying a fee, should we pay a tax on top of the fee? >> talking about uniform taxes and uniform and blankets. >> and trips to the bathroom. and listen, talking about flying the unfriendly ies. we hav toet ready for a small military battle. steve is right. but the ga o and congresslasts the transportation adminiration for padded budget and waste and a bows. stop raising taxes and put your own house in order. what we get a return for. long lines. >> and rick unger, you are always railing against greed on the part of the government and wanting to tax one more thing. >> idon't understand why they wouldn't.

there is no fees whe i can charge and the government doesn't tax me. airs are making the money on the extra charges now. why wouldn't they be taxed on it. >> john, you go through any of your bills, whether it is a phone bil or bill for your airline tick and you can see all of the taxes here and there. enough, right? >> yeah, that is the problem, the federal government doesn't have a problem with revenues, what it has a problem of doing too much and if we give them more revenue twill grow more and more and suffocate t economy. let's cut the taxes and not raise the burden on the american people. >> y know where this money is going transportation government workers and doing union work full- time. that is going in the airport and government. >> once you tack a ta on. the tax will return. ntaxes always remain and term of profit for the airline,

you have to put it in a museum, it is so rare. >> final word? >> im with bill on this. solve the problem and get rid of the charges on baggage fees. i couldn't agree more and i if stops people fm buying tickets, good. >> you hed it before. >> exactly, john, you never get rid of the taxes. they always stay forever. >> stable stocks to buy in an unstle market.

or a charity case. a trouble maker. worthless. just a stupid mistake.

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>> we are back, a azy ride in the stock market. d now stocks that are thriving in all of the volatileitty. morgan, google? >> they have a fantastic balance sheet and bulletproof. >> bill, you ke google? >> fortunate the eurean authorities are going after the coany. >> what is ecks. >> if you are in a mood for a fluidcompany this is go to company. >> i what the heck is. >> i am not a mood for that. i wouldn't touch it until it comes down. >> oil and gas and rigging company and largest on shore rigs and balance sheet. >> morgan, u like it? >> i think the competitor are

better. >> and that's it for forbes on fox. have wonderful weekend, keep it right here. number one business block cashinin and my buddy eric boler. >> sara palin is here governor and i fired up with distrust of the govnment. now we are learning irs is giving themselves cent million dollars in bonus and what does sah think about that? >> and does the fbi own or currently use drones and if , for what purse? >> yes, and for surveillance. >> talk about shock and a we. fbi using dron to spy on americans. now the governor weighs in and reaction from my shocking