another 1. >> john, quickly. >> faceok finds a way on monetize. video will help hem. >> bull or bear? >> too much of a run up. i'm a bear. never let a scandal go to waste. and when it comes to the nsa, don't do millions knoit. hello, everyone. this guy is proof we need more government workers. according to a new report, they're ready for a new fight against hiring outside contractors while pushing for are more federal workers and security jobs. that have you feeling a little insecure? gary, what do you think? >> there is no proof that contractors do a badjob for us with our security. this is an outlier event, one that should be arrested. i not want any union

employees put down our throatses in the security business. that will affects going forward. i want gooople runni the show. >> there is also a report out friday that says even though the nsa has rule order how to handle our communications, there are so many gray areas or wiggle room, if you will, that it's all kind of spooky anyway. >> it is. and i will borrow something i know adam might very well say. of course t unions will try and increase their ranks. whichtheoretically if you had more government workers versus private coractors, that would happen. actually i totally agree with gary this is a oneoff. you can have people who leak confidenal information even if they work for the governmt. you call him a whistleblower, i say private bradley. >> i've done a lot of reporting about the whistleblowers.

they're all insane to a rtain extent, so we should eect that ch different from this guy. i do have a little bit of a problem, though, farming this sort of essential stuff out to to contractors. think we don't fa out the police department. we don't farm out t fire department. why should we be farming out surveillance. there is a degree of extra control -- >> if they were federal workers, we could all sep well at night? >> i'm not saying that. i'm sayi we have more control in-house. there is more control of the police and fire departments because it's ihouse. >> be, hn, how do you feel? >> i could not agree more. the guy that these guys outside contractors have access phone records of every single person in ameca if not the entire world is insane. d i think they shou at a minimum be government employees and subject to whatever laws, including laws of -- >> all i was saying is whether

they're within the government or outside contractor, if they're not properly naged, th they're going to leak anyway. >> let jump in there. >> ere's one more level between the government supervision and the coractor than there is if they were correct government employ direct government employees. >> adam, you have me momentum i your favor. >> i could not agree more with the last two. first of all, this this is of course as everybody kno has nothing to do with unions. might rename the program bash unions weekl because that's the set up for this segment. >> no, adam, hold one second. this is a play book of the tsa. in otherords, it's big body, it starts out independently, but you go after it and we've seen

this playbook working before. >> let me just speak to that. because that's exactly what you would expect in an organizations leadership to do. the point here is what we can make aeneralization about in this country is that we have let this idea that you should farm erything out t contractors run amuck. it i not always the best tng to let the market decide how ese things should be done. a key function of the governnt should be done by government employees. that's te point here. >> wre talking about things running amuck. what's running amuck is not that they aren't unionized, but the abuse of you power and all the gray areas that the nsaeems to have these days. >> it that has nothing to do with unions or nonunions. >> all i'm interested in is the best people in this job. our security is the number one most important thing this country needs at this point in

time. m saying -- listen, i'm not saying they're not. if it's from there, fine, give me the best ople. my issue i wen they use this as a wedge to get in there and get more of their employees in to the nsa and these other places. >> and tohat point, the irs, all these scandals goi on, 0 million in bonuses. this is what happens. so maybe you have less layer of accountability with respect to management, but certainly when the unions take over, you can't fire anybody. and they always get paid. $70 million in the midst of this crisis for the irs. >> you don't need to -- basically you can be screw up and be managed byhe government, witness this irs. and i would argue that when you put somebody's profits and you put their business at sk, those companies moving forward that are private contractors by the government, if the government bearsown on them, you betteramn well be sure

that they are going toprevent people from -- >> just the opposite. >> the anti-union sentiment is such thin read. it's a straw man. the fact is the unions will benefit from this, there will be more uon workers if it they move it in-house. that is a consequence. >> it's not reason why we're doing this. >> and byhe way, we should point out when you farm out a lot of stuff, farm out prisons, which they have done, a lot of abuse occurs because there is a dividi line between government and private buness. >> i'm just saying that you have about a third of topecret -- top security clear answers that are ouide contractors ght now. i don't see the harm in that despite this oneerk who is in hong kong. >> outside contractors also do lousy jobs atat background they're among the worstarund. >> go ahead, ben. >> do you not see that tre is

th missing layer of accountability? surely a woman as brilliant as you sees this missing layer of accountability. these guys are partanimals. i know these private contractors. they're party animals. >> but i'm not a believer that we will do better j at surveillance, at fighting terrorism if you basically make l of these workers 100% within the government. >> why is it such a foregone colusion th by aegd the bureaucracy of government that it's actually going to make the program better? because i have lost so much faith and i think the viewers share the sent niment in government-run things. >> i understand, but w we're in the realm of opinion. so shed if you hire a contractor, you cahold their feet to the fire.

i uld say you hold a contractor, they'reotivated to make the besrofit they can as they should by the way. they will cut costs in order to do that. >> unless you lose all government revenues because you screw up. >> does the police department did a great job? they do a great job here in new york. this is an essenal service. >> the army doe a good job and private manning leaked classified information. >> what is the argument that an essential service just because it's a government, just because it might happen to be wi a union, will do a lousy job? >> gary, you have the last word on this. >> the argument is simple. we just want the best people whether it's from the unions or not. the issue is using the political side of it, gng after one guy whwe alrdy called him a few names and using them toget more of your people in there. i don't want that. iant things done rit. i want the best people for the job.

>> all right. and i think we all agree on that. we'll agree to disagreeith respect to whether unions bring accountability. we'lsee. hey, how about this? a free pass for companies ssing out your private informatation to the government. that's what the nchsa wants. up here next, when it costs to the new immigration bill, critics are saying don't believe we went out and askedeople a simple question:

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now back to cavuto on business. while a key government report says it would rede the deficit over the next ten year, it's also say wages would actually decline for all workers. ben. >> well, of course wages will cline. influx of lower waged workers. historically the purpose of loosermmigrationaws has been exactly that, to put pressure on wages downward. and that will do that this time, too. but let's remember that a lot of the jobs these guys will b taking are jobs that americans don't want to have in the first place. so it really wouldn't matter what you want to pay. not many harvard chickens will want to pull the lungs out of chickens. so although i imagine that's how they feel abt a lot of their professions.

but the whole purpose is to lower wages. >> i find it interesting because we've established a society where americans don't have to do those jobs because they can sit at hope and collect checks. that's the alternative. if they didn't havehat alternative, they would be out there catfish farms and doing whatever job they could. it's a luxury in this country not to have to work. >> the longer you stay home, the more you get checks. it's amazing to watch and w've seen the newapers the checks that are being sent. as far as the wages go, you add a ton ever people to the pie and you have certain amount of money, fixed amount ofmoney, wages are e most certainly goin to go down. and this is ging to be the outcome. got another big bill with the immigration thing. and i'm not against it, but th way they're doing it, i have a big worry about how it will affect the economy. and to hear the cbo which i call the congressional bull crap office with theieir numbers sayt will help the economy and they say it will help the economy and

help the deficit, i don't think so. >> hard for me to believe that, too, charlie. every time the cbo scores something and all of these things where we spend trillions of dollar, somehow we save money at the end, just baffles me. >> like obamacare. >> exactly. >> i trying to think of an anti-union angle here. i mean, i want to correctt ben n e thing. he made the point before that immigration is basically to to meet demand for b. not to drive down the cost of labor. so -- >> amo other things. >> what's odd about this is tt we don't he dend for hard labor. and they're still thinking about bringing people in. and this is what i don't get from t left. they say they're for the poor and everything, to give benefits out. and basally hel the poor. this doesn't help the poor, this hurts the poor. it dres down the base wage rate. >> it actually if you look at the cbo report, it says that

wages will drop slightly for lower income americans and higher iome -- i's t middle group that will not have a gative. and i have the union argument. if y unionize like mcdold's, your prices will go up if the wages go up. if you keep wages flat or lower, thatmeans prices at restaurants and retailers that we all go to will remain steady. >> the went into hard labor. but the way, that was this 1920s when there was a need. we don't have the need now. >> we will also bring in more skilled hier -- >> let's bring in the guy who is in silicon valley right now.

adam, her intellect will all answer went over my head. so straighten me u >> at the high end, boo-hoo for the wealthy who will face new competition. there actually is -- >> what competition are you talking about? >> that's not what this argument is about. there is a labor shortage. this argument not abouthe high end labor. there is plenty of jobs out there for technicians and -- >> let adam finish. g guys, ho on. >> the two things that the report adesse it would depress ges at the high end. we've ascertained, agreed, we don't care about that smuch. >> so what do we care about? the impact would be tiny. i mean, statiscally irrelevant. >> that makes no sens >> and it won't really drive downwages. it will drive down -- >> finish, adam. >> it will drive down recorded wages. because right now these 11

million people are not ing recorded because they're not offial. >> here is the thing, though. how could you be socavalier to say whe wages should go down and whe shouldn't? you're talking about americans. and you're like i don't care if this guy's wages go do because he or she makes x amount of money. isn't that crazy way of looking at it? >> he asked me at the high end this is good competition. silicon valley companies need more people. >> nobody cares about the high end. this is t an argunt about the high end. >> that was my point. the way, the latest news on the immigration bills that the republicans want more security, military-like serity on the border. that what it will take to get their votes. that going to cost a lot more money. >> that's not what we're arguing here. if you havan influx of low skilled workers will that depress wages for poor peop. yes, it will. it has to. >> the bottom line is it will. i think everyone h to agree that it will. and we should all care about

that. by the way, i care about all americans' wages going down and i also care about t fact that they don't have toake these jobs and that's why we're in this debate in the first place. up next, let's call it electric sticker shock. why the latest from the white house could have you payinmore green for energy bills. >> looks likeomorrow i'll be oveling ten feet of global warming. >> it can cause both extremes, hoand cold. >> so you're saying warming >> so you're saying warming makes it co

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♪ >> green and turning red. the white house seto announce a new global warming push targeting power plants with stricter limits on emissions. criticsay will hit consumer with higher energy costs. monty bills up 40ercent in the past ten years, can we afford it? >> we couldn't. look, i can give you an exale look at the chart of the coal stocks after they put regulations on these companies. electric companies will raise prices on the consumer and our costs will go up. that will affect theeconomy. it is a big cost to the consumer. >> ben, it seems tough that we are ask to pay so much higher

in electricity costs in a time when the country is trying to stggle out of the abyss that it is in. >> there is no cost to high to save the earth. the really problem is do we know it is hurting the earth. the scientist are not 100 percent unanimous. despite what they tell us. the signs are not clear on this. just don't think we should go all out on this. >> adam, getting rid of 43,000 mewataugas of power and reace it with what? >> just having come back fro china where the air is disgusting, i am glad to live where the air is cleaner, we have not had a increase in electricity demand for five years. it is more about the economy. >> but prices are up and you mentioned we haven't haddemand. imagine what hapns, adam, what happens when we take 280 coal

fire plants off line. wh happens tourbills? >> our bills will go up if we don't put anything else on line. >> that is the natural gas droppi it down. our emissions are in the lowest levels in 20 years. you want to know why the market went town 5 or 600 points. it is tough like. this obama economy and minus the monetary crack. regulation and higher taxes and nonsense like this. >> every time ben bernanke speaks,it is this. dagen, now doub there is a better way. the way it is going through is ms iffed. nnatural gas promote the exmroration and that will drive down the co2 emission. >> my thanks to charlie and dagen. big ben may be saying good bye

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censative. people have to keep eating no tter what. >> ben, what do you like? >> if you are on the same team sign up. >> he's been writing and freedom continues f a place for business. that is always right, fox. >> y help us and we'll help you. head of the national security agency asked in congress to give legal immuneitty to private companies. should angry cusmers like you be able to sue those companies if they are wrongfully targeted. >> hi, everybody. welcome to forbes on fox. we'll go with steve and rick and rich and elizabeth and sabrina and john. john, should customers like be able to sue in >> yes, we should be. companies shouldot be helping the federal government to snoop on us. we have to ask ourselves