censative. people have to keep eating no tter what. >> ben, what do you like? >> if you are on the same team sign up. >> he's been writing and freedom continues f a place for business. that is always right, fox. >> y help us and we'll help you. head of the national security agency asked in congress to give legal immuneitty to private companies. should angry cusmers like you be able to sue those companies if they are wrongfully targeted. >> hi, everybody. welcome to forbes on fox. we'll go with steve and rick and rich and elizabeth and sabrina and john. john, should customers like be able to sue in >> yes, we should be. companies shouldot be helping the federal government to snoop on us. we have to ask ourselves how much liberty we are willing to

give up in order to create the false illusion of security. to live in a fro society, ris are involved. the risks are worth too have what we have. >> steve, if i am buying a service and i don't want them to share the service with the government should i be able to sue them if they do it against my will? >> companies for a impossible position. ifhey help out the government they are snooping on privacy. if they don't help out the government they are helping terrorist. the focus should be on the government and labuses, don bring companies that are doing the best and caught in an impossible position. >> sabrina,he government made some of the companies their partners. >> we are tang a giant step to tional socialism if our companies claim immuneitty. the government doesn't need to own the means of production for us to be in a precarious

position. before we are in a bad position in the society. >> rich, what do you think? >> well, look, i would remind my good friend john and sabrinawho a are, terrorism is real. we did this and the telecoms got immuneitty in the bush administration. this is not new and it is needed. companies are put in a impossible position. nemac, isn't it time to rethink this? >> yes. >> now we know the extent? >> i agree with scombraup here's why. the government stinks bause you can't sue the governme. but the way the government is writing the law, there is a bill before the senate that if a company passes incorrec information, how do they on on they can be begin immuneiy

from lawsuits. how do you define that information. the nsa can store that information five years that you think might be important. india and the middle east and asia and countries putting the onus on gooble and facebook to give over information. how will you stop thatf you stop lawsuits from stopping the practices. >> rick, none of us like the collusion between the government and private sector, isn't suing and giving the customers the right to sue one of the only ways out? >> maybe, but there is something everybody is missing here, it is not just the companies deciding to go along with the govement. they e acting pursua to a court order. they have to it because they are orded byhe court to do so. that being the case by the w, we are overstating the immuneitty thing. i suspect they are following the order of the urt they will not

lose a lawsuit anyway. it dissuades the you are talking like a lawyer. are u in favor or n of giving customers a chance for suing. >> it is not a happy answer for you. in some cases is in favor and in cases i am not. >> john, i think rich said the most provokative thing here, you shouldn't be in favor of a suicide in protecting our individual rights and that shouldn't allow us to draw the government. how do you respond to that? >> i think when we accept security we get paralysis from the government. we have lot was federal entities telling us that stimulus and it makes the economy groechlt they

say we are safer here. i continuing is an embarrassment and sends a message around the worl that the champion of liberty is move nothing the wrong direction and a bad step for the united states. >> steve, isn't there a dger of sitting back and letting the government decide >> one of the legitimate functions of government is protectings from external enemies and e constitutiowas written by framers who unrstood that governments that protect you can abuse you. take it out on the government. rich hit on something. if the company has in writing certain ord or request and the statute is cited, the company is obligged to do it. if you don't like the law change the law. >> we want to stop thead guy companies can stop the government saying we are getting a ton of lawsuits on our doorsteps and in india, they are allowing tax officials with access to google d facebook

data. >> the irs is different. >> india is pressuring to have government officials on-site at research in motion. >> by the way, hold on a second sabrina. why is the irs different? >> it is internal tax collection and how much money we owe the government and the abuses of the irs. this is about our security. again, this is an issue with the government. >> i understand that. we havefocused on how all of the irs scandals are. but sabra, the fact is, even though it is national security we are entrusting the same people with sensitive information andthat gives me the willies. >> it should give you the willies. i have seen no evident that all of the big data is keeping us safer. in poi the haystack gets so big we'll not find the needle. it is all of the megadata that is keeping us safer.

i agree about civil liberties. >> let me go back to rich. return on investment, there a proof that it is safer? >> i give the benefit to the doubt to the people in the trenches looking at terrorist threats that are coming through. here is another factor, the u.s. is a letiggous society. no.for initiating lawsuit an companies like google has tens of biions onhe balance. it is a magnet for frivolous lawsuits if people sue google. >> i think that is right. but look, we have to be carel here. sabrina said it is no proof it did good. can you say that if you want to disbelieve what the nsa is saying. i am not teing you you are wrong calling then liars but you know what, mbe it has ved. >> steve, let me ask you this

though. if a guy like snowden can get access to a lot of sensitive information, isn't that a problem? >> we have fraud in election and so get rid of election. you deal with specific problems and abuse asasks that's what e congressional hearings are for and find out if this thing is work and this changes we make. don't put companies in the grinneder because of it. >> last thought from the boss. and subsidies interest tes. and subsidies interest tes. >> and one percent rate hike

at a dry cleaner, and subsidies interest tes. >> and one percent rate hike we replaced people with a machine. what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it? hello? hello?! if your bank doesn't let u t, you need an ally. hello? ly bank. your mey needs an ally. [ slap! [ slap! slap! slap! slap! ] ow! ow! [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? ght back fast with tums. calcium-rich tums starts working so fast you'll forget you had heartburn. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums

back to forbesn business. ndouble trouble. less than ten days interest rates on student loans may go to 2 to 6 percent. law makers a rushing to strike a deal to keep the subsidy going. andn the flip side rich said let the rates double, why, rich? >> well, look. we are looking at trillion in student loan default 6.8 percent is probably way too low. college costs a lot. i went and was able to go to stanfo university, but only after i spent two years in a community college three blocks from my home and while i lved at home.

i spent nothing my first two ars and have a degree from a nice college. there are so many wa today to cut the costs of education without causing taxpayers to do the loans. >> it isa subsidy and interest rates are based onck. and student loans have a lot o risks. >> i don't want to get to be all bleeding heart. i disagree with rich. it is about thi to me, if you create a situation where only people with a lot o money go to the better schools andlet's face it they are the most ebs pensive schools. ivleague schools costs a lot of money. na what does it do to the cotry if only people who can afford it go there. >> it is hard toet in. >> steve forbes, i hate to be personal about it and i got in colombia in graduate and i went to northwestern and did well.

i had to make a choice based on how much i cod afford, isn't that natural, steve? >> it is, david and people have to make the tradeoffs in terms of ivy's. and tuititions are sky rcketing is itutions feel charges $60,000. we have to charg that or people don't think we provide good information. >> penny-wise and dollar flush. this is what it is about where student loans are concerned. two reasons not to let interest rates rise. we are only talking out subsidized staffer loans. it is paid for by the government. they are essentially raising the rates on taxpayers and more ending by taxpayers and the second reason, unsubsidized d private loans. th are already at 6.8 percent interest rates and not making a difference on the colle. >> sabrina, we are not talking

about pennies, we are talking about millions and billions of doars. the entire student loan program could lead to debt for taxpayers. >> it is the entire student loan problem we are talking about it is government interntion that allows them to drive up the tuition costs to obscene levels that push out on kids that afford them. and we have people who owe more in student loan debt than in credit card debt. this is interesting the job market today. we have a 1 trillion worth of student loan debt. that is unheard of for a country like this. >> ll, sometimes the subsidized governmen loans leverage up the price for everybody? >> yes, you don't have to sucker punch the udents. it is another way t get taxpayers f of the hook. you have the colleges guarantee the debts. they wil be more careful about

burying people with graduation debts. and they give not valuable degries like anthropology. >> what about putting the onus on the colleges tha the taxpayers. >> yeah, i think thats a prtty good idea. bill finds a bank shot to make a good argument. i would go back to the point with on li opportunities and e underused community college resources in this country. so many ways for people to bring down costs and have a first-class edation. >> morgan, you want to get in? >> seen the republicans proposed tying interest rates to the treasuries which we do withll of the other types ofoan interest rates. >> but the problem with tt, steve. as w mentioned before they are risky loans and very often for

the studentloans, we don't have a credit history like we do for other loans and that's why they are so ricky. nsabrina is right, we have to see it as the whole thing. the govnment is driving up lleg cos and has kids leaving school like a pion servant that are working for the government instetead of having a great career. they start the morage without a house. >> i think it gives total proof for my argument. two peopleittin here and very successful and smart and both anthropology majors and both of whom had student loans. >> wait a minute, rick. >> had to go to the cheaper school i made the decision and i ended up doing pretty well. >> yes, you had to get a student loan to do it. >> rick pointed out two years in the community college and got a good education a didn't spent xroo 50 or hundred

thousand dollars. >> i think any american would say something is wrong here. >> what has sarah pallen all fired up. you are ying to soak up the sun and congress is looking to sock it to you by taxing all of the airline fees. get ready to be

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talk about a fe for all. as if the extra charges were not enough now the government wants to tax aax on top of the fees. airline fees get hit with taxes and apparently that is not enough for the gretax man. ste, you say enough already >> absolutely, there used to be a restaurant that said too much is not enough which is the motto for the federal government. they are noting the money for upgrading air track controller. its enough to feed the feeding binge. this idea needs to ash. >> we pay too much taxes as it is. >> steve, this one will make your life easier. uniform tax on all airline services, they would have the

sense to have high ticket pris and free checked bags and then we wouldn't have a half an hour agony w they try to stuff steamer trunks in the overhead. nemac, we are paying a fee, shld we pay a tax on top of the fee? >> talking about uniform taxes and uniform and blankets. >> and trips to the bathroom. and listen, talking about flying the unfriely skies. we have to get ready for a small military battle. steve is right. but th ga o and congress blasts the transportation administration for padded budget and waste and a bows. stop raising taxes and put your own house in order. what we get a return for. long lines. >> and rick unger, youare always railing against greed on the part of the government and wanting to tax one more thing. >> i don't understand why they wouldn't.

there is no fees where i can charge and the government doesn't tax me. airs are making ney on the extra charges now. why wouldn't they be taxed on it. >> john, you go through any of your bills, whether it is a phone bill or bill for your airle ticket and you can see all of the taxes here and there. enough, right? >> yeah, that is the problem, e federal government doesn't ve a problem wh revenues, what it has a problem of doing too much and if we give them more revenue twill grow more and more and suffocate the economy. let's cut the taxes and not raise the burden on the american people. >> you know where this money is going tnsportation government workers and doing union work full- time. that is going in the airport and gornment. >> once you tack a tax on. the tax will return. ntaxes always remain and in terms of profit for te airline,

you ha to put it in a museum, it is so rare. >> final wd? >> i am with bill on this. solve the problem and t rid of the charges on baggage fees. i couldn't agree more and if it stops peoplerom buying tickets, goo >> you heard it before. >> exactly, john, you never get rid of the taxes. they always stay forever. >> stable stks to buy in an unstable market. the is a pursuit a better life for your family, a better opportuty for your business,

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going on now at your authorized mercedes-bendealer. >> we are back, a crazy ride in the stock market. and now stocks that are thriving in all of the volatileitty. morg, google? >> they have a fantastic balance sheet and bulletproof. >> bill, you like google? >> unfortunately the european authorities are going after the company. >> what is idecks. if you are in a mood for a uid company this is go to company. >> i what the heck is. >> i am not a mood for that. i wouldn't touch it until it comes down >> oil and gas and rigging company and largest on shore rigs and balance sheet. >> morgan, you like it? >> i think the competitor are

better. >> and that's it for forbes on fox. have a wonderful weekend,eep right here. number one business block cashin in and my buddy eric boler. >> sarah palin i here governor and i fired up with distrust of the goverent. now we are learning irs is giving themselves cent million dollars in bonus and what does sarah think about that? >> and does the fbi own or currently use dron a so, for what purpose? >> yes, and for surveillance. >> talk about shock and a we. fbi using drones to spy on americans. now the governor weighs in and reaction from my shocking in