listen live show. we're on every week day from 3:00 to 6:00. we'llave another great tv show are next week, in thanks for being withus. one nation prevailed in asserting its interest in the summit in northe ireland and it was not the unitedstates. tw days ofalks at the g 8 in bellfast and a one hour discussi between presidents obama and putin on ria turned out to be an 'em brament for the president. the call was for assad to step down and a condemn nation of assad after putin incestsisted e

is no chemical regime as the obama white house claims. president obama's foreign policy looks increasinglyuddled and confused particularly and most urgely on the issue of syria. on the eve of that summit the obama said it would be sending small arms to the rebels some of whom have danrous tieso al qaedbut in an interview which was taped last sunday president obama denied h his policy on sya had changed at all. with a penchant for e inconsistent, he ward about a deeper involvement in the syrian civil war. >> it is veryasy to slip slide your way into deeper and ddeper commment because if it's not working immediately,hen what ends upappeni isix months from now people say, well, you

gave the heavy ar tilry and now what we needis x and now what we nned is y. becae until assad is defeated in this view, it's never going to be ough, all right? >> so for now the president seems content to offer aid an that aid by eway is benning to add up. president obama plging anotr $300 million in humanitarian assistance, half of whiill be st to syria and half will be divided between refugees and native country. ich means the total to more than $800 million, most of the money committed over the pa two months and any resolution in syria will have to wait until peace talks which have been scheduled for next month in geneva are to be held before august. the president still hasn'tgiven a clear defense of the nsa and

survllance programs and for that matter neither has congress. my fir guest, general alexander said -- andrew mccarthy is the author of the best sellers, jihad and the grand fever. nice to have you with us. general alexder was forth right it seemed. he made a compelling case and even since in that committee with thehearing room the committee was growing up a little. i didn't hear what congressman ship started giving thh general valuable advice i'm sure but seemed moreatu than it's been. >> y have a real adult who was in complete command of the facts and i thi mde the most comppllingefense of this progm. now, i don't think it will be

enough because there's nothing like the bully pulpit and as effective as general alexander is, he's not the president. these programs really need the defensof the oval office and specifically president obama. >> the president's defense of his administration, this agency, rose to this level. he thought it was pretty transparent, the prism program. what does he need to be effective the defen of nsa and his own administration? >> anything but transparent but i think afte five years with the oh, passty of this administration transpent is the butt of a joke that will be effective in the discourse. he needs to expla much like general alexander did why we need tse programs and what the structural civil liberties protections are in them because the run away freight train here is that people who are opposed to the programnd saw the issue

as a way to relitigate everything they lost when the patriot act was authorized, have stolen the narrative her and basically have people thinking that the itelligence community is actively spying on americans. >> i think today -- if i correct in sensing some highe level of maturity on the part of the committee. perhaps it's about to e. they of courlways have the reinforcing value of the national mia given the politics of the maer. but hopefully we'll see more attention id to the chine cyber attacks in this country than o trying to take up the ti of those who are leang the effort to protect the couny and its infrastructure. let me turn to the g summit in bellfast the president talked away basically slapped around by putin. it was an abysmal performance

for the united states. >> how could it be anything but though. you have ideological progress sifs who thinkhat th way to conduct e reign policy is not to be guided by theom of our own vital interestsut to be part of a community in which we rruit countriethat are hostile to the united states, very much included russia and give us a veto and that isargely because we're living inarack obama'sorld and which is the result of it. >> and we will be doing so for some te and in the matter of days we'll be taking up direct talks, t united states will, with the taliban, on a resolution in afghanistan. i mean, this turns our histor our foreign policy for decades

its head and leads where? sense takes you which is that a war has a winnernd aoser and if you don't stay in it to win it, you lose. a lot of whatas gone on from the preside's speech about how he's's basically declaringhat the war is over without having to do the hard work to end it in a posive way, they're trying to dress this up int something other than a humiliating defeat r the united states. >> andrew mccarth good to have you with us. thank you. >> what should edward snoen with treated with? with treated with? our analyst judge andrew

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♪ joining us now fox news senior judicial analyst judge andrew napolitano. judge, edwardnowden has broughth world down arnol his head by steing out on this. some people describe him as a hero, hers as a traitor. where are you? >> i have described him an american hero when i first learned of this and i continue totand by th position. if he did what he said he did, if he is the person w realed all the government's unconstitttional behavio he's confronted with the folwing. an oath to keep secret the information he w given, on oath to uphold the constitution and a clash between t two. so what do you do? which is higher? his oath to keep secret or his

oath to follow the constitution. the constitution ithe sup law of the land. he has a moral and constitutional obligation to reveal it. >> y used the hypothetical, if. there are a lotof hypotheticals in this. right now i don't know specifically what he's charged. i haven't heard it from him. >> i don't think any -- what he's charged or been charged with? >> what he is charging. represents a violation of the constitution or law. it's unclear. as you step forward and others have to call him a hero, does it give you some trepidation the timing because we are in a speculative era, the timi of his revelations wch wiped away a two day summit between the president of the united states and the president of china. s presence in hong kong and hicharges that the united stat was hacking chinese locationand facilies, does

that all give you any dis quiet? >> it doesn't trouble me at all. the timing of the revelation was set by the reporters to whom he spoke. he been speaking to them for a long time. secondly, ireject the idea that we should dwell him, his background or his motivatio we should ell on what the government has done to us in our name. you used an interesting phrase, whether this is legal or constitutional. they're different. >> i used both of them. >> you did. i'd like to dwell on thator a moment. the congress thinks it can write any lawnd regulate any behavior andax any event. in congress's mind whatever it says is legal is legal. but because the constitution restraints them, prohibits a search warrant for 113 million american when they are looking for two or three, it's unconstitutional. when the governmentas done is legal because the patriot act authorizest but unconstitutional because the

congress has aempted to disregard the constitution. >> it will be interesting to see ere you come down whenll the facts are known. >> we learn more facts every day. >> we do and i can't imagin why one uldn't be s quieted but you're a a man of courage and intellect. >> you mean it takes courage to t here? >> not a all. >> i'd like to come back when we learn morrbout it. >> you've got a deal d we will make it frequently. thwhite house overloaded with scandals. we'll show you why the alec, for this mission i upgrad your smart phone. ♪ right. but the most important feature of all is... the capital one puhase eraser. i can reem the double miles i earned with my venre card to erase recent travel purchases. d with few clicks, this mission never happened. uh, what's this button do? [ electricity zaps ] ♪

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>> there's a while during the president's first term it seemed he could do no wrong in theyes of his supporters, at least the national media as well. now e obama white house scandals are coming at such a furious pace nearly everyone seems to have a problem with at least one of those controversies and scandals. take a look at jst some of these. one, the internal revee service, if you pay taxes you miiht be a little upset with them whether it'sbecause they

targeted conservative groups or spend millions of dollars on conferences. the liberal national media is over this scandal by the way. the big tee networks have gone omaving 96 stories about the irs in thirst two weeks when the scandal broke to one story this week. we have a little problem with the way they approach things as yo might guess. if you happen toelve congress has the right indeed the obllgation to know what our government is doing at home and abro abroad, you may be offended by the administration's mine month stone wall on benghazi and roger ails put it ell wh he said, quote, i've come to the concluon that i don't even re what the president of the ited states was doing that night but i would like to know what the commander in chief was doing that night. if you believe in the first amendment, the freedom of the

pres the white house's sweeping record seizure o documents,hould cause your blood tooil over along with the associated press intrusion. fourth, if you are one of those actually believe in the second amendment and your rights, you might be upseto learn vice-president biden is rebooting his push for gun control next week so you can look forward to that. if you believe in the national interest and plain spokenness from the president's administration, you may be curious as to why this white hoe won't characterize snowden as an outright trait. perhaps at the hang on to the idea thatt's just coincidence that nsa leaks came at the same time the presint was holding summit with the chinese coter par on chinese cyber attacking. you haven't seen a sto about it at all in the wake of these

leaks. six, if you get fired up over women's rights and abuse of power, this administrati in general will bet you're revoeltd by accusation that t state department cered up acsations intoexual consult and prostitution. 7, if you believe the obama's administtion claims that they wld be the most transparent in history, it probably tis you off that political appointees and head of agencies have been using secret e-mail accounts to conduct offial government business. we'll find out more surely. so the president has all these scandals going on and he doesn't even have a nickname like tricky dick nixon or slick willie clinton. this president does itseems need a nickname given all this. we thought it would be interesting to invite you to are ideas as to at that

nickname would be. e-mail me at lou at loudobbs.com. by the way, ju to get you started, our executive producer came up with the first ide we've alreadyiscounted it. his offering was thebamboozler. pretty good, right. let's hear your ideas. president obama and putin agreeing to disagree on syria. what's next for the co announcer: where can an investor be a name and not a number? scottrade. ron: i'm never alone with scottrade. i can always call or stop by my local office. they're arby and ready to help. so when i have questions, i can talk to someone who knows exacy how i trade. because i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. at's why i'm with scottrade. announcer: scottrade- proud to be ranked "best overall client experience."

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>> for more now on the different rspectes on syria from the president's putin and obama, we lcome now fonews mide east dr. waleed and fox news military contributor. we thankou for being with us.

is meeting amounteto what as they declared they had different persctives and basicly agreeded to disagree? >> well, that's what they've done in northern ireland. the reality on the ground is different. on the ground you hhvhve a very aggressive syrian regime as we ard in the introduion ashe irans across syria. on the other hand an unstoppable al qaeda penetration of the opposition. so the only group with whom we can partner is no being weaked. that's the ee syrian army and the secular people the free syria army and we don'tave a syria plan. we he a syria step after sp but we d't have a comphensive strategic plan so far. >> general, we're listening to senar mccin senatorgraham and a handful of others but primarily from the republican party saying that we've got to get involve there has to be a

no fly zoe. we have to start arminghese rebels. it is a peculiar thing in washington that is erupting for support for another conflict in the middle east. your thoughts? i don't think they kno what they're talking about. they're talking about supporting general e dress and ease not the one that we just talked about. dr. paul, a former fox military analyst has met on two occasions and ththey are secular. ey are the ones we need to help but we're talking about arming the wrong people. as far as a no fly zonegoes, lou, the only no fly zones are in the united states over our air basis where we' grounded one third of our tactical air d nowthey want to crank it up. we aren't readiness-wise prepared to do this. could we do it, sure but it

would be a great cost to us. it's not going to happen with this administration because they do not have a serious strategy on what too with ria and what our goals are. that's the very worrisome thing. >> it's all about unconceivable that the united states with the very same leadership that has led us to the result in iraq and afghanistan that the american people a even a wouldthink of those strategies in command. >> we don't have a stomach for it, the public dsn't have a stomach forit. >> let me be clr. i wasn'talking about having the stomach for it but the good judgments and the intelligence, i'm referring to the americ

people, to tell failed leaders dot both. >> you have a point. were not yet talking to the right people. if we want to do anything about it, the admintration maximum goal at this point in time is to bring back some sort of balance of power between the opposition in general whout defining what is the opposition and the ass regime in the hope to take everybody to geneva wher the russians areaiting there not to help us a give us a veto. that road not going to be a solution. the other critique coming from inside washington, from some mbers ofongress is that wee going do an all outno fly zone over syria. the general was right when they said there are commanders of the fsa who are secular. they should be invited to

washington, not istanbul, but to congress and clarifyat syria wwe going to see after assad if at all >> talking with the chief of staff in the united states air force some years ago he pointed t to me that we have had our air power engaged, at that time it was some years ago, but now it's 22 years that we have haha our air power engaged and noly zones, in combat whether it's now in afghanistan. this habeen an unprecedented persistent use of air power and an air force that has been taken to its limits. has it not? >> absolutely. in those 22 years we've rn lot of the equipment out. we have not modernized the f 22 which would be absolutely required in syria ifhe ruians put in the 300 service missile. you haveo be steth if you are

doing to survive in that. so fundamentally we have 00 22shat are capable o operating in this regime. over this time frame we've continued to draw down the number of squadrons that we ha. we've put them in the bone yard throug sequestration and other budget cuts. lou, you are spot on. we have over the last 22 years, we're not the same a force that w were 22 years ago. >> and we're deploying f16s to jordan. i'm not entirely sure wt will be the result of that. we are looking at continued incrementa steps toward ratchetingp at least the potential forr conflict. what would be the outcome if we do engage in russia andnd are w preped for such a colict? is this commander in chief prepared for such a conflict?

>> i don't have an answer to that. what can say is there is no strategiplan. there are thr coions for our success in syria. number one to partner with the right people. we want to see them in washington. numb two, we need to tell quarter and the other arab stops stop funding and three, we need to be prepared for confrontation with he's bu la and iran. >> general, youet the last word as we watch presidents putin and obama come tono conclusion in their meeting. >> president ptin wants to humiliate president obama and if prident obamdon't understand that he going to be miliate humiliated. radical are being unded in this particul ventureo t moderates are not getting the

fundg they need. we've eosesed ourselves to a combination of challenges that if w do something we have to go in big time and the american people have not been explained about why we should go do this and we do not have a strategy that would supportthat structure to go in and try to solve this probm. it is not a very good decision that we've left the american pele. perhaps the israelis are going to have to pull it out themselves. >> gentlemen, thank you very much. the irs scandal targeting conservative groups, delaying applications, playing politics and maybe, maybe committing felonies. in today's markets, a lot can ppen in a second. with fidelity's guaranteed one-second trade execution, weoute your order to up to 75 market centers toook for the best possible price --

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>> my next guest is representing 25 conservative organizations

that are suing the irs claiming their constitutional rights were violated. joining us now is jay sekulow, chief cosel for the american center for law and justice. good to hav you her >> thanks for having >> this is a monumentalf i may say, monumental legal acon to go after the internal revenue service. you're going to have jacob lou, stev miller, holly paas and other unknown irs officials. how did you determine them? >> the reason we listed tse individuals, we based on the formation that we had during the process of examination hen these groups were trying to get tax exempt we knew who we were dealing with. steve miller said he had no idea, he couldn't remember anybody's names. i had the agent's names, the

letters from lois lerner. we named e complaint. those who h knowledge of or actual engagement in the unlawful acts othe irs. we have listed ten or more unknow. until we do the discovery we're not going to know how deep or high up it went. we're going to be amending that complaint ithe next week or ten days, adding another 25 organizations and additional counts in the complaints, some areas that we havs since learned that we're concerned about. it i a monumental uertaking. we filed a complaint that says you unlawfully targeted. normally they would s denied. howre we gog to deny it because we attached the statements where we admitted it.

>> the response from lois lerner in particular, no only an acowledgment and admission of guilt but then an apology which compounds i would think the evidence on your behalf. >> it does. i mean, the fact that she made the admiion and we got the inspector general's report where thcknowledge and uncover the targeting. they keep calling it targeting but targeting is a violation of the consnstitution. you cannot target someone based on their viewpoint. i have doneemultiple ces on that. i said this the other day on your broadcast. i think the irs is instionally incable of self-correcting. this afternoon the irs placed on admisttive leave two more ficials, one in charge of the obama car affordable care act enforcement. the agency in complete melt down in my ew.

what needs to happ, i tnk they should scrap the whole internal revenue cord but sht of that we need justice for our clients that these unconstitutional acts op. >> you talked aut changes, damages to claims that have to be satisfied here by an agency of the federal government that under our constitution is supposed to be serving the american pple, not targetg them. it's clr that they wer doing precisely that through their own admission. what damages will you likely succeed or do you want to cceed in recovering from the until revenue service for your client >> they need theirexemptions. a number of these groups before we got iolvedincurred substantl legal fees trying to comply with these questionnaires that were coming from the irs. th need reimbursement and we

have clients that have lost ants. we talked abouttthis before, this particular group that was picked up in this dragnet of the irs. they weren't a tea party group but a conservative organization and they were picked up inhis dragnet and ended up losing a grant of $30,000. thathere's real dames here and then of course there's the getting the government to stop because despite protest to the contrary, jay carney's statements to the contrary, the reality is on may 26 of 2013 we received another letter from one of our clients with ridiculous questions. the procs has not stopped and we need to get the government to correc itself and without a court order they're not capable of doing. >> jay, thanks for joining us. the ranks need to follow the right organization toward some satisfaction or justice against the irs d the federal

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microsoft all now claim that they knew thing about the so called pri surveillance program, but our next guest say we've already given up control of data and platforms to the very companies under discussion. joining us to discuss whether or not we have any control at all over our pvacy and security on the web, bruce mier. he's a security expert and author of liars and outliars.

bruce, it's great to have you with us. i think that as a security expert you probably have the best opportunity to explain to us why yone should not start laughing outloud when google and apple and facebook start talking about they deserve more respect from us becae they have just a few thousand request is from nsa and other agencs when they are the ones taking our personal and private information and dis sem nating it across the web, aren't they? >> we are aef ving it to them. it not that they're taking it. the nsa has to do with them taking it. we're giving ito these companies. way the web works. they need us to trust them with our data, our iends, our photos, but theireal business is betraying that trust to

adveisers. that's their business model. they try to hide it somewhat. they're transparent somewhat but they really rely on us not notici the fact that they had a sideline betraying us the government as well is just one more thing. >> i'm curious abou this cause -- by the way, i didn't say that the companies took the information. i said they dis sem nated it various ways across the web. that is the business model. fabook in particular doesn't care what your privacy preferences are. they're gng to do what they will. i find that utterly maddening that pople are bungat posture almost unquestiod. >> there's a conflict of teresthere. these are the very same types of correlations that you see in prism that facebook and google an others do to better serve

you ads. the difference is going to be the false positives. if google makes a mistake, they

i think it's going to be for a while. that is the way the world works. if you pick a company at rand data is in the i icloud you're trusting tm. you're giving em all yur data. there's a ason you do it but you hope that there are interests align with yours. in a lot of these cases, facebook is an example, google, you're not their customer. you're their product they sell to their customers. so the nrmal customer veer relationship dsn't apply in the sa way. it's the fact that we re increasingly the product, that our data is the product mak us really io search forthese companies producing data that they use to sell to advertise and to the government. >> i thinkou make as i said a fascating point but i think we have to persist

in that point and extend it out as far as we can. you talkbout we make this tradeoff about our privacy, for convenience of the alignment of interest. what could be a greater alignment of interest than the nsa and a governmenthat is acting in our interest to protect us from terrorist, or a greater convenience than to still be alive at the end of day thanks to this broad surveillance program. there's a certai political, if you will, group in this country identifiable, easily identified that really hates the nsa doing precisely what google and in ea are almost analous in bh the alignment as youay of interest anthe convenience, the tradeoff that is not always conscious, not alws underood

by conservatives. >> right. this is what we need to understand. thuestion is what's being done and how effective is it? we are the taxpayers. we are the ones whoayor this, who make that tradeoff. so we need to be told how effective these programs are. there's been a lot of wheezeling. they might have been effected in some things. examples given have turned out to be false. we don't know whether these programs do any good. we don't know how much they cost, is this a good use of our money? they're very unlikely to be effectiv this is y secrecy is bad. need to know what the government is doing, understand what there doing. if they're doing a good job, great. if they're doin a lousy job we need to fix it. this is what snowden did that was so good. he gave us infortion about

what the government is doing in our name with our money. let's find out if is effective. we have never seen a case that's effective or cost effective. >> why aren't people challenging the business models in the aggrate a highly concentrated and powerful group ofompanies that could as easy be called like facebook,icrosoft and -- did i mention cebook? let me dit again. these are disturbing inconsistencieies and contradictions when we starto look at those. we start t lay bare something else everybody should be aware ofnd that is the politi of those who are most excised about, say, the nsa and those beginning to get pretty exercised about corporates who are really driving the virtual world inhich we find great experience and value.

>> there are two reasons. one i mentioned is ttat the harms are less great. being shown a wrong ad because you're misclassifi is different than being investigated because you're lassified. >> whoa, wait a minute. it's almost ubiquitous privacy isis being invaded by the corporates. there is a very narrow, small nuer w are being investigated by the government. they are not analogous on either size, scale or incident, but we're gog to have to pick this up because, bruce, as you id, weould talk for -- come o back and let's continue the conversation. i think it's a fascinating perspective you brinto it and we appreciate you sharing your inght. me on back. >> thank you. >> bruce nyer. up next we're going to be talking about the brand new book, the fnding

conservatives, troubles at the creation and how our founding fathers dealt with them and the fathers dealt with them and the people who brought ere is a psuit we all share. a better life for your family, a better opportunity for yourusiness, better legacy to leavehe world. we have always believed in this purst, striving to bring insight to every investmt, and integritto every plan. we are morgan stanley. and we're ready to work for you. for their family. that's why i created the honest company. i was just concerned mom, with a crazy dream. a wish that there was a company that i could rely on, that did all of the hard work for me. i'm jessica alba, and the honest company was my dream. [ male announcer ] legalom has helped a million businesses successfully get started,

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♪ lou: new >> a new book sheds light on some lesser knownonservatives who helped secure freedom during the revolutionary war. joining me now is david lefer, professor at nyu ae polytechnic institute. author of this book the foundin conservatives, now a group of unsung heros saved the america revolution. congratulatis on the book. >> thank you. it's an honor to be here. >> we wish you the ery best of this book, be a massive success. i love the subject and your thinking on . let's start with you point out the three main arguments. i'd li to go through them quickly.

the founding conservatives saved the american revolution just as important as you said, but who were these conservativesirst and why hasn't much unl now been made of them? >> it's the remarkable story and the history of the american revolution is itself a fascinatg subject that we go on and on about. they saved the american revolution in multiple ways. robe morris single handedly financed the army. without him the army wod have grounded to a halt. you have james wilsonand governor morris who wrote large parts of the united states constitution. these foundingathers are well known to historians buthey have pretty much been totally leftut of popular histories. >> i find fascinating you say we shouldn't be looking too mucho briton, the united kingdom as the foundation for conservative thought and philosoy but

rather, you say that the first modern conservative was british statesman edmond burke. >> most histories trace the conservativism ba to burke. i discovered that everything burke stood for and said was said a decade and a half earlier by the american founding 3 c1 conservatives. it struck me as strange and fascinating that conservative similar that is l about h heritage doesn't kno its ownn har tank. >> the thinkers, the tellectuals, thomas jefferson, a conservative? >> he was far more radica one of the most surprising things i discovered in the book is john adamswas quite radica throughout the revutn. he changes his thinking ward the end of it. >> conservativism itself giv

us your view today of at statement its in. i have to tell you, i can't always recognize a conservative >> i think these conservatives i write about offer two lessons. the first is that they compromise, they fought tooth and nail for this country, let me emphasize that. they fought tooth and nail for this country. they compromised for the good of the nation. they put patriotism before litics. they were facing a world of changing definite graphics. they were sing voters as free men from the lower classes and the middle classes, the rightto vote. these conservaves started lo their vote. they had to offer e thing to get their vote. that was prosperity. they said we will bring free market capitalism to america. it will make the people strong and rich. >> these mern conservatives as we look around us, prosper us, brilliant, engaged?

>> conservatives face a similar tension today, how do you deal with the complaining lector at and stay relevant. >> we're going to see that anered. you.