>> the irs targeted tea partners but those groups that were mistreated they get a consolation prize? not a washer or dryer but a check for $1,000. i am charles payne. the irs has a new plan to grow with the scandal a watchdog calls for the irs to give targeted groups $1,000 in a and apology pavement. the cheap party perhaps say it is an insult and your group was targeted by the irs so i can imagine you are pretty happy? >> that is what they don't

get. it is not about the many and has nothing to do with the many. end to be audited are they trying to bribe us into silence? it's not about money but the overreach of the federal government for those that have the right to express the views just like anybody else. >> at least this is a step to it that is reprehensible may be more than $1,000 but a step in the right direction. >> it just seems silly they will give us $1,000 a barrel in many? that is our own money. they abused their authority and honestly i would take

this could be resolved with all those on taxpayer funded vacations or administrative leave. to go further let's abolish the irs and let the states allocate the money and that would be an excellent way to say we are sorry. >> but after major disasters they have to be so sycophantic so to your point* i do want to say you do have a lawsuit you have filed a lawsuit and i imagine if you try a to have financial gave as well? >> it is not just a lawsuit of the tea party battle conservative groupsstargeted byythe irs. it is a class-action lawsuit that will represent all the groups. many of the group's folded

after this day and could not do any fund-raising. they lost income and just to make light -- make right the wrongs the iras did so it was filed in cincinnati and represents the little people the groups that could not survive for the burden of information and that was demanded in not even within the free -- a framework or constitutionallyy charles: on cnn he may have the allied with the person who made the offer. running the national taxpayer advocate they came up with the apology a pavement they saw where things were not right she went to the irs may be this

is a way with the vague structure and then we are a million miles away but just to hear the word apology and knowledge is something wrong was done. >> i wiil refuse to excepted i travel all of them the country meeting with different organizers talking about actual free speech suppression and groups that oll town of st. louis to put on a liability policy and porta-potti is an extract securities that is a lot to have the irs to

squelch the free speech is intervening that is a huge problem i just wanted to be abolished but nextel i think everybody should plead the fifth. >> are you happy with the direction in capitol hill? do you feel like we are chipping away behind the veil of the i don't know? will we get some answers? >> it is difficult to say because it is great congress has come to the party but remember it was started by the irs and overseen by the irs so i just wonder how far they will go and i dd believe if it is up to we the people that justice is

served it is an overreaching unconstitutional piece of the federal government any way. this sad day in is that so many people from our group contacted me i cannot donate any more and cannot go to any more meetings because i am afraid the irs will come after me. >> that is probably the ultimate goal this is only supposed to be temporary. >> about 100 years past the due date for your both fantastic and keep up the fight. for the second time officials pleading the fifth >> mr. chairman on the advice of calves i respectfully decline to answer and then broke with

his amendment to remain silent. charles: with that half a million dollar contract awarded to the irs it was given to a good friend now refusing to talk. apparently he learned to from ms. lerner refusing comment. >> i have decided to follow my council's advice and not questions today. charles: now the judge says they should talk did we should know exactly what they have done. >> it is very, very frustrating to the american people in those of us to watch from a financial point* of view or me from the legal point* of view, we are there employees they are our emppoyees. and they are privileged and not to reassert our questions. if roger ailes who took me into his office to ask me questions about my job and i refuse to answer he could fire we have every right to do so.

he is not the government. and it allows them to remain silent before congress and the american people. >>. charles: but in other words, maybe they don't work for me and the boss at 1600 pennsylvania avenue? >> that don't think that is any question in. eye injury with everything your to previous guests have said. those who have said there is a culture in the irs that we work for them. there is a culture in the irs that the property is there's. a perfectly lawful way to

get the people to speak but they will lose there fifth amendment protection but that involves the executive branch that congress does the prosecutor don't think we will see the day where a federal prosecutor working for the bombings administration decides to charge of these people the first and they can do is remove the personal immunity paid $1,000 per organization coming from taxpayer dollars, if they came from the personal assets of the irs agents and the management who abuse their authority that you would see that stopover night. charles: if you gave them one they would dieoptions taken all. maybe grabbing immunity but

but i think it feels like there is one set of people trying to get the answer and another set but the democrats are playing on defense to block and tackle jimmy ever escaped to find the truth the way it is right now? >> no. not elicit the executive branch in the attorney general indicts someone or unless congress has both houses and parties or the president unleashes his minions to unlock their silence we will never find out what is happening. not just a republican is good and democrats are bad. both parties to this the reason the irs has the broad discretion that it has to loosen the screws is because

you ever uses this as a personal tool of tear am both presidents have done it charles: perhaps a woman who is watching should remember that when a different political party gets the next time because it seems the stakes are raised. >> and our property and assets and harder and dollars. charles: want to keep going? [laughter] you have been preaching this from day never won almost every time i pick up the paper i think of you first. i appreciate you take the time. >> is a pleasure. >> you are expecting? a new question raising questions about the health@ care law a and eight words

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charles: the good dues you got a raise but the bad news it pays for your health care and it could be true. but many companies are turning to a salary based system that the more you make the we pay in premiums. one of the many surprises? >> i don't take their are raises i think a lot of people will have jobs after obamacare because they are being crushed of the burden but guess what? they get rid of jobs and also make part-time jobs other is a health care were getting rid of businesses altogether so there you go. a total failure. >> we do know they make adjustments casillas them prices go up and somehow they find a way to make the employees pay for it or the

general public and certainly this is not different. >> did has happened i have a lot of young people that work there that have to find their own health care policies and the premiums are through the roof. that is the great irony these voters that supported obama are now paying a very high price for government mandated health care but on the other hand imasco board member in the gave teachers a raise because they deserved it. we're doing great and improving drastically but guess where all the money went to pay for higher health care premiums. right to. the raises are gone now going to the government run health care. >> i guess that is shared sacrifice. when we talk about a new health care law it is with something of economic benefits and is not about economics but fairness in

people getting coverage settle a complaint. >> it is still about economics and from where i said i looked at health care costs that have slowed in terms of gross recede as specifically with medicare that has improved dramatically. charles: is that for people on medicaid? >> not really. to talk about the overall health care spending going down and back to the other issue. people have not been getting raises over the last 10 years going into health care spending so obamacare did not add new dynamics but employers rather spend money on health care than they would grow in wages. >> did have the choice? the consequences could be severe for employers and a half to figure out a way to find the money.

>> one of the big problems is obamacare doesn't address the real issues we have. i am sitting in the health care fraud capital of the united states. my home town. our premiums keep rising because there is so much pride and obamacare does little if anything to address these issues. into those authenticating visits but none of that is happening so there is more fraud so that is the raw deal we get with obamacare. >> part of the agency to implement the irs? these are the folks who put the "star trek" training video and implementing this? great. charles: it feels like every

day there is something new new, a new cost. i know nancy pelosi said we had to wait but i did not think we would open a pandora's box. >> democrats are unhappy either. people are getting it now the pages are stacked this high and push through and people realize it is not so good for republicans or democrats. >> in every pllce where health care change has been set up we see the health care premiums offered lower than they were prior to the implementation of the exchange's. so this is actually producing lower cost. charles: we're running a lot of time. i know you are a proponent in do love the president but argue worried or concerned how it has got none of the

starting gate? >> absolutely to believe the affordable care act will solve everything absolutely not but to deny it is a positive step forward over status quo does not make sense. >> is making it worse on the teachers and the young people. >> they are part of the flatt3 earth society. [laughter] the government is junking the junk food. it could cost your kids a good education.

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charles: millions of dollars kidding poured into public-school starting next year but it will not go to education.

the governor forces schools to get rid of junk food so your kids and a kiss been new books could buy at the same time. elisabeth mackenzie to says that the overreaches getting a little bit scary. what about overreach? >> when you look at how far they wanted to take the regulations come and they even considered regulating the fund-raisers in a stock shhrtage is the same problem itself to take this one-size-fits-all approach this needs localize attention one lady testified we have healthy options because of certain usda standards you cannot have more than two slices of whole grain bread for damages we cannot offer those.

so this overreach hurts the children were if you take a localized approach things can be more effective. charles: this comes from the federal government that they have to implement than they have small budgets better suffering and continuing to suffer but i know you talk about the cost. it is more expensive than something has got to go. babies something to have a longer lasting impact? >> was a lady on capitol hill said for the schools she represented the food costs went from 37% above 43% as they implemented the regulations spending over $43,000 to train employees on the new standards. a set of trying to micromanage wouldn't they be better served if they created a stronger economic environment so healthier

foods are more affordable to spend the money on education? >> we're not talking about a vending machine without a candy bar is in that goofy? >> ppople don't read labels? you know, it is still full of artificial things. and then you expect the problem to go away. charles: then you go on the world to work. but a lot of important decisions from the supreme court but boiling down with states' rights and is this another example where local governments are states are not allowed to determine what is best to? they have to take marching orders from washington d.c. but with our children that is the top of the pecking order and the local

government should have more of our role of the decisionmaking process to than a bureaucrat in washington d.c.? >> i do applaud some regulations to the states but one lady said popular help alternative that they could not implement because it did not meet weekly patricians standards. that is ridiculous. 1k cries because he could not have his pick of bbtter and jelly sandwich on the first day of school. there is no need for that. in the federal government needs to go back and consider are they the best people for the job? charles: when i don't get my pena butter and jelly you should see me. [laughter] that is the best one. >> who would have thought? >> but then they switched

from white bread to whole wheat. >> it is still a healthy with this situation they will come after year. [laughter] >> edward snowden still on the run into was the president talking to? everybody but china and russia. we will report. you will make a decision.

>> i have not called the president personally or president to attend personally and the reason is because number one, i should not have to. charles: the president says he is not a friend tried to speak to the speaker edward snowden. let's start with the lieutenant colonel, the president has been astonishing. >> they have been. we have a president who doesn't want to be bothered in fact, he recognizes he will not get anything amount of either because of what he has done in the past. and title -- trying to scuttle our economy in the chinese and the russians know they have the upper

hand it is an american problem. it is like trying to do squealing soon do we show any kind of backbone? from the international point* of view. >> i think it is and i agree 100 percent we have had a lot of flocked internationally reform policy but there is nothing he can do. free had spies every thought you'd be executed we would keep him. charles: are you say that edward snowden will be executed? >> no known no. but the perception is if we had a russian spy if we send him back he would be executed or tortured.

if the shoe was on the other flight aad he comes back we will prosecute not execute but put him in jail and russia is not willing to give up this by just as like we are not willing to give them up if they receive king asylum from us. >> bellies we put on a better show? he said he will not scramble jets but to stab a better range of decisions i scramble jets or do nothing is and there's something in between from a the public-relations aspect? >>:there are plenty of options. he could have said i had this under control looking presidential but he looked very weak and petition is in your fares -- face i was on

the other side of the iron curtain in they would kill anyone we send back and he knows full well this stretches out to make obama look bad and of course, they're doing a great job but of course, he helps the process by basically fumbling and everybody knows they can get that done. charles: that is the case but which fed different approach to foreign policy doesn't work and it seems to embolden those who don't take it seriously to begin life. >> i agree completely the president didn't as many options but if you ask who will bring -- blink first? nobody will say peru to end. he is a very tough leader and i was in russia last

week you'll be surprised how little america matters to russia they do their own thing when they sent missiles to syria they said they have already been sold we will just deliver them they don't caracol with the americans are doing and the attitude to is just laughing at this. let's look at what has their own interest in the middle east is imploding again and in iraq the death rate is through the roof where we headed? >> iran takes a bit to chavis and in spite of what jordan is doing with the implosion we side according to you to one of the coomanders of the serious troubles is a cannibal it is said real we would come to the rescue after 27 months of a disaster scenario even

with the encouragement of our israeli friends the yen obama doesn't seem to have the wherewithal he estimate tough decisions even north korea we have a lot of problems in the foreign policy is bankrupt. >> makes it that much harder for your expertise for i appreciate it the home builders are building a buyers are buying so it sounds as if everything is going great but not what it seems. [ larry ] younow througut history,

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since 1987 in having pending wholesales tipping the scales so it is confusing we have gary smith to says this is not a coincidence people are trying to get in before the rates jump higher. >> i think this is an interest-rate deeision but nobody is talking about putting a large amount of money on a house they can afford to have seen the price is flat line so unfortunately we knew someone else's money you have to pay the interest rate it is like a tax on homes and they said i thought i could get the low rate now i will rethink my decision. >> since then bernanke spoke with some other rates go up there and people are worried if it continues. are you? >> rates will not choke

demand because it is pent-up demand pyye in -- buyers have been sitting on the sidelines with inventory depleting so there are fundamentals to show better bringing buyers to the table by in 2002 we were at the @%icenter. we have room to run. charles: that people get spoiled the things that i want the rate that we had two weeks ago. >> i think they shed a accelerate but these are historic leave low rates to put into perspective. >> market specific it depends. >> privacy advocates taken issue with kugel as it offers web site owners a

free way to collect feedback from visitors. missing is the way to help websites but it is another way to get more information? has it been worried about its overreach? >> we talk about it but i wonder andy think people will stop using google's or go online? when we talk about this segment i did not stop using google's today. i know they are accessing way information but stuff like that is so convenient i just wonder how much of the worry is is for everyone out there. i don't think it is. >> not every ready has a squeaky clean lifelike kim. [laughter] >> then there are people who like the idea offliberty and

freedom. are you concerned? it does seem that google's has a green light to gather information in the need to know where that will go. >> there should not be in the expectation of privacy we're all the kardashian online because tracking information is google's business and on and marketers get many when they get to you in that only happens when they know a lot of values which is fundamental so it is not realistic to thank you can shop at home and not have a cost but there is a cost to the internet privacy is a cost. charles: instead of waiting for those that are heavy and features bag jumping on and the consul light is a new system selling for $99 and

is already sold out everywhere. is this a good sign or a bad sign for the future of gaming? it is capitalism at its finest still hold the whole internet tv industry has not been touched by the government can you imagine what we would do with health care? we would have the $99 solutions when the previous solution was $500 per i am glad companies are doing this to show what can happen in the market is allowed to work. >> there is a wal-mart of health care out there but whenever this is called you can tell i grew up with the commodore 16. [laughter] at $99? the big guys may be nervous. >> we talk knight in day it

is for the phone gamer it is for so many people with their self comes. charles: you look like you are the person who plays with the stored best says to stop. i am married to a gamer but i make fun of him. so the person who is the hard-core waiting in line for the next big release spin being 20 hours mastery as head -- hard-core shooter gave t is for someone to set a home and it is night and day they will not drive a torrey area if you want a ferrari. charles: my son will one those. in now to bring somebody with a past here is a tip

think this survey ike so much because they might get the whole step and they are ticked. there is a pursuit we allhare. a better le for youramily, a better opportunity for ur busins, a better legacy to leave the world we have always beld in this pursuit, striving to bring sight to every investment, and integrity to every plan. ware morgan stanley. and we're ready to work foyou.

charles: end to night sharing is caring but arista's not to care to share their tips but new york disagrees the supervisors too much as the same work in deserved a share of the tip. now to the lawyers with opposing views. you say in this case they get roasted? >> absolutely. this is terrible. they go to work and their job is a specific job. they serve people and their work very hard and it is an

individual thing. lot of people going to coffee restaurants for a particular ashbery step now when they go to give them there ninth step now they will not get the entire chip but to be shared amongst other people. now if you have another supervisor who wws not doing anything they can pull down everybody else's tips and it is a horrible horrible decision. charles: i consider myself a good tip turbidite tip before actual service in personality not just as said knee-jerk reaction to it does feel a little unfair. >> it is not just about the persons serving you directly but there are other people behind the sir that makes the whole experience better. that is why i like this decision to give certainty ann clarity. longer do they have to think of food do i have to share my tips with?

and they will share the people that helped them in their job. shift supervisors are the people who help fund barrista they are paid hourly part-time now the assistant managers have the salary and benefits so all line has been drawn so that anybody who goes to work will know this is who i have to show my tips and this is how i don't take years clarity and certainty. fairness is another. how does new york state have the right to say you will operate your business? no one is forced to work a few new rules and new york state says to operate your business differently. >> i do think it was a bad

decisions and now how far we'll people go to say they have to share the tip? people have specific jobs for a guy getting a. it is inexperienced but the supervisors are paid more money. not the are of a wage that the sir is getting paid. let me finish. and also not only that they're in a better position to get this is to raise so not only are they receiving the benefits from the lower-level employees they're doing 75 for 85 percent of the work they have the ability to be a step above to work for those it is very unfair. >> to different people have different perceptions and this debate shows him those are different in this fits

together case stayed true line between the shift supervisor in the manager because they make more than the supervisors help it is different ways they are entitled so what you think is fair? i think it is fair to give the certainty. charles: something we can all agree is that the barrista seneca pate diana m. people say that isn't fair no matter what side it is a spirited and we'll have -ou back. could they ccuse the next couple? and the trillion dollar debt that could lead to another huge bailout. right. but the most important feature of all is... the capital one purchase eraser. i can rede the double miles i earned with my venture card

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charles: ince unions are cashing in and moody's says 10 states pay of more for

public pensions and total revenues and some spending almost 2.5 times whht they taken with the pension obligations. i am not a mathematician but something doesn't add up. this is just bad? >> unions are a disaster they have destroyed our economy. we have these businesses leaving the country at a national level but they break the bank. $100 billion that day '04 pigeons? aig and we have a surplus with a boost davy kidded said that the unions are breaking the bank. charles: really did you use a and we did some good things stand the tide turn to it doesn't look -- rinaldi made a promise for the pension is too high.

realistically? >> remember that a pension is deferred competition and an employee decideddto take lessons become to benefit so this is that a handout but by a bright the employee ought to get to be fully funded by the employer. >> the only difference particularly with their relationship with the private sector but public workers who made more money than the private sector counterparts who paid fees tensions know they can afford any more. >> also exist in the private sector because people undermine the pages liabilities but because people don't manage issa payments accordingly. >> the private sector is taking care of its issue.

15 percent goes to pensioo obligation here in miami and that it is another yells transfer to yogurt to middle-class to hire income older people it is unsustainable it is the bigger people that are working today because their pay is frozen and there will not have the generous pensions when they retire it is unsustainable. charles: we had dylan space with 100 million and carlos makes a point* if we put it how do the states keep up? how do they have great universities and all the money we've taken is to pay pensions? >> they won't. it is a political pact they take the many of collective bargaining then use it to get their full sslected then

they vote on the tension and ditches inevitable. then they go baker crafted then the people pay the bill but that is not fair. let them go bankrupt. charles: why is it there outrage for the community and businesses? >> because they get the job done. the problem with the union is it. no good use for them anymore >> the good news here in florida for two years ago we had to to give pension reform and public employees pay 3% to their tyree -- but it took a long working and of course, union's strike against a. >> that we explained it was unsustainable the way it was structured and private sector employees, if people can contribute to the

employee sponsored pension in plan why shouldn't those in the public sector? they are good employees but it has to be sustainable i am glad to day contribute to the pension. >> these are valid points. you love to have the it intellectual discussion for quite know how you can justify unions not to say we have to swallow a pill to not only keep the union going but the state going to provide for the future of our states? >> for future employees all bets are on the table pensions are in deferred compensation, a deal was struck late -- legally any to be filled. >> i in this cycle where unions are pressed and the

legislature give them a nice package is ended keeps to go round and round tickets to the point* we be the ultimate sign of greed because nobody could afford it but what about the private sector pension? rick but the private-sector in the business is to to if businesses formed they go under by in the public sector it is on the taxpayers' back is not right if it is not fair. charles: that is a huge difference city will pay for it? >> also what is not fair is that people were getting laid off today just so we can meet the pension obligations. people are unemployed today that government had to lay off just to fill a generous

pension obligations for a man needs to change. it needs to change over the country. charles: one way or the other. we appreciated. thank you for watching.