>> conservativesace a similar tension today, how do you deal with the complaining lector at and stay relevant. >> we're going to see that answered. neil: well, who sayshe white house doesn't talk about stuff that's illegal. that's not so. the president's been talking 5 lot about illegal immigrants ad finally making them legal and russia holding edward snoden stilsaying, well, that's illegal, but when it cooes to a certain irs scandal or justice department scandal or a pattern of health care dpartment related scandals, not only does the word "illegal" come up, not a one scandal comes up, not ever. be careful about a president who picks and chooses what he finds illegal. history suggests the real events ultimately determines what is. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto, and as we end this wek, this just seems weak, a pivot that,well, makes me

vomit. a president decidg when a legal issue is so big he'll talk about it, yes, it's the supreme court ruling on gay marriage, s, if it's the same ruling on voting rights, and, yes, if it's ting on illegal immigration bill. all illegalities have to be addressed in society, but not the others bubbling in his own administration. now, good lawyers now how to deflect, and ts president is a good lawyer, but tha doesn't mean he doesn't have a good ny scandals. now, some tat look awfully ilgal to me, but then again, i'm no lawye slicing wors, i'm just a voter wanting answers. to larry on whether this ivot is indeed a pivot, and if we should be worried about it, or just an example of yet another president choosing to talk about the legalssues that matter to him and not the legal issues that coull be clearly damaging him. lay, whatdo you make of all

this? >> neil, you hit on it when you said you were a voter because ultimately it's a political judgment by the voters, but the next election's a year and a half away. presidents don't talk about things -- unhappy things unless they are forcedto, and he can only be orced in two ways full-blown ress conference, that he rarely has, and even in those cases, call on friendly reporters who don't ask the questions or ask them in a nice way, and an election. the election is noember 2014 for the senate and houue. neil: just running out the clock to see if it loses steam? >> of course. presidents always run out the clock on bad news. that'sart ofthe trick of the job. neil: you told me as a great historian you are, you rub it in my face when i getyou ice cream when i'm wrong, that history rewards those presidents who get in front of something, even if they are notresponsible for it. john kennedy comes to mind after

the bay of pigs disaster, he was willing to take the blame, his poll numbers shot up. history rewards presidents who try to get ahead of something, doesn't it? >> yeah, assuming you have the answers, neil. look, the voters, people generally love nothing better than a president or a politician who's willing to admit they were ong or to take responsibility for something whether they personally did it or not. you know the people, nemo. they ae pretty big egoed and they don't o that often. neil: i have it with the big egoea, and that's what i love about myself, but, anyway,o you feelel this is going to come back to bite him, though? by singling out, playing tongue-in-cheek to say, all right, the illties the supreme court's addressing, the senate's addressing, they matter to me.

th her clear illegalitiesdo not. -eople at home just don't say, wait a minte, you're picking and choosing here. >> well, if they pay attention, they might do that, neil, but, look, you're talking about hypocrisy, and we've had the nversation before. hypocrisy is th life blood of politics. neil: tuche my friend. good to see you. >> thank you, neil, take care of yourself. neil: you too. ignore the man behind the curtain. the great oz. was n old dude pulling a crank. remeer that? whether the president is doing the same thing and 's getting old, and melissa francis o investors who say we got it wrong. he's not the real crank and he's nots the real oz, and someone else is, and if he screws u, we go down. mary kaherine, the pivot, way do you thinkf it in >> i agree with larry hat this is self-preservation of liticians, and the pesident's

particularly good at running ot the clock, i think. that's why you didn't get the obamacare regulations until three years after the bill was passed because he kw if they did that, people react before the electn. he's good at this thing. he also has a way of lecturing the rest of us how we should not jump to cop collusions unless he wants to jump to conclusions, and if it's trayvon matin, what have yo, he's happy to act poetic about whatever it is and jump to plenty of conclusions, but we are not allowed to if there's a bunch of political terms for conservates to target pple from the irs. neil: looking at the markets generally, melissa, they re ot interested in what he's doing, but what the real as is doing. >> that's federal reserve chairman, ben bernanke, focused on everything he does nd says, and we saw as he hinted that maybe, maybe the punch bowl might be going awayt the enof the year if things continue to be okay, which th a not, by the way, if you look to gdp, it's smaller, and the economy

grows sower than we thoug. that's bad news for regular people. neil: what do the markets think then, to that point, if it turns out whatever selective memory the president has about illegal acts, they really fester and they reay comeacc to bite him, and that it gets to be a real worry, then what? do they start aying attention? melissa: maybe they pay attention, but it could be a good thing. one thing that hapened is it distracted the president more or less from oing more damage to business. he came out making the speech about the environment, and that destroyed coal stocks for that day, but as long as he's distracted in doing something else, i mean, i had a banker say recently every time they stick their ad up, they are pistol whipped by washington. they try to do as lttle as possible. that's not good for the economy, not good nor growth, busness, or regular people who need jobs. neil: ary katherine, what do you think of the argument, though, there's a sort of strategy to it, that might not

be too stupd, and that is deflect, wait it out, deflect, wait it out, and before you know it, we're through the summer, through the worst of it and we still got a year to go to the midterms >> yeah, i mean, it works well for him sometimes,and i think sometimes, unfortunatelily, because the media is happy to let him play out the clock here. you know, i think -- neil: explainthat. i didn't want to jump on you, mary, i apologize. >> no, go ahead. neil: you mentioned a profound point. the media dropped this irs thing very quickly when they got word or appeared to get word, and melissa's point of facit was not whatt appears to be, libel groups were included in the witch hunt, and that gave them a cover to drop it. what do you think tt? >> yeah, i think it did. the irs comes out again saying, well, okay, there's six -- t actual data shows six liberal groups in hundreds and hundreds of conservative groups. it doesn't fly. they are happy to let him swi

ong and avoid things. on benghaz for instance, would we have gotten questions answwred unless republicans and a few reporters had ket asking question, and they were, of course, trashed by other people in the media. i think asking these questions key, and part of the key is fixing these problems so that people have some trust, maybe occasionally, in the federal government making all systems work better. at this point, a lot -- neil: no, no, that's interesting because to your point, melis, that what scares me the most is ho uch the media tires of these vaious scandals, and doesn't really want to dig that much in it because it's just -- i almost see them draggingthem, oh, i got to uncover this, and when you got word of the liberal things, oh, good, we can drop it. without doing what youid to find -- >> no, look to the bott. it was a small number, and their names were just put on the lookout list. it as not --

their application for the tax exempt status was not held up. thhy didn't actually receive the same abu -- il: the media takes that and says, oh. >> they are tired of the story because it's not playing the way they want to. they feel there's balance in there. both sides get it, which was not theecase, and it's okay to drop it and move on to something else. neil: mary katherine final word. >> yeah, thank they don't want a story that makes the administration looks like they fulfil worst nightmares ofhe tea partimt they want to act as if it's pair know ya, but it's not what they get you, and that's whathe story shows, and in order to fix it, you hav to figure out thatthat's the problem, and you have to shine a spotlight on it. whhn he's ab to run out the clock, we don't get solutions to the problem. itan happen in the future. neil: ladies, thank you both. it knows who youall and e-mailing, and when you thought the nsa snooping scandal couldn't get worse, ha, it gets

couldn't get worse, ha, it gets worse. there is a pursuit we all share. a better life for your family, a better opportunity for your business, a better legacy to leave the world. we have always believed in this pursuit, striving to bring insight and integrity to every plan. we are morgantanley. and we're ready to work for you.

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what they are doing is worse than what i did at your house being a couch potato, listening in on your calls, and even learn, well, what your e-mails are about, read every single one of them. that'shat the irs is charged with doing atensa more to the point mining millions of them to see who sent what and whhen. ooping that's getting exhausting. liz? >> here's the problem. i mean, americans really want to cah terrorists. they support the government, saying, yeah, catch terrorists, it's great, let's do it, but when you do it without really indicating to congress what you're doing, and then going after the fact to get congressiol review of what you're doing and when it's e-mails, e-mails bother m because they show your location, alsowhat about what you write in the subject line of your e-mail because t nsa says we didn't view the content of the e-mail. they use bject lines a the time, and what bothers me about the story too is senator wyden asked thedirector of

intelligence, mes clapper, are you collecting data on millions of americans, and he flatly said no, and now wehave an e-mail controversy popping up. neil: they say there's n news here. >> no. neil: what do you think, james? >> i'm flattered they are reading my e-mails. you know, most of the time, i send them, nobody responds bac. when i make a list of, like, the top 50 thingshat are, like, on my mind today, myroblems, nemo, you know, i mean, you know, problems with a specific cuomer today, i have a big softballgame sunday, worries -- playing on the softball eam, and whatever the government is reading in my e-mail, believe me, read whatever they want. if it'shelping them protect us and provide that security, it's just not on my lst of the 50 things i'm worrying about, and it has not been. neil: okay. adam, is it on your list of worries? >> well, no -- well, yes andno. first of all, it's a joke to say it's fin if they read my

e-mails. should be clear if what we know so far they are not reading our e-mails or listening to our phonca, but looking at the data and trying to mine something with it using algorithms to try -- neil: you're right, you're very right. you know once you have all that stuff, the next step would be eavesdropping, the next step is reading all of the above, and by the way, just collecting the e-mails leads me to believe they are not just sort of sitting on a desk or on a coputer. >> well, mo, the next step you raise is the least troublesome of all because the next step would be, u know, old-fashioned gointo the judge and asking for -- neil: i don't think it do. the history of the government, i don't think they bother with the judge, and liz's point, it's after e fact for this stuff, it concerns me. that's the concern. >> that's where i said i'm concerned, neil. i completely support that we, you know, we invesgate this, write e about it, make sure that they've got permission.

>> the thing, too, is who has security clearance to do this? the thing is, they can say they are making -- that they are not reading e males, but -- -- neil: i don't believe a word i'm hearing. >> it violat the fourth amendment. neil: exact limit it's only a few consertive groups turned toto be hundreds. we never wentafter individuals, but it was several big donors. everything you've told me, government, irs, is a lie. when we first up covered the ap reporter targeted, that was it, only a few, but it extende to a fox news reporter and executives. i don't beleve anything you say. i'm never confident that anything you say ended. that's the point. >> i understand that, neil, but when you -- neil: yore too busy playing softball, and you're willing to let the government continue to play hardball. >> i've not been hitting well recently, and it's on my mind. neil: keep playing, running around the bases, and they are running and destroying the country.

>> when i think about security, does the government have the resources to read my and liz's -- >> sure they do. neil: ye they do! >> you're a nice person. >> you're a nice person. >> don't take it the wrong way. they don't care what's in your e-mail. neil: oh really? how did james rosen get caught up? >> it depends on who the perso is, and, look, there 3 # 30 million -- >> she's one of the most celebrated reporters in america. no, serious. m just saying, and adam, this worries me. when somuch -- neil, come dawn, don't be worried, i mentioned on the sho the twilight zone episode where all the guys from planet earth run into an alien spaceship, and it's a cook book and they get the ingredients in someone's salad. your answer. well, what i'm saying is, neil, don't calm down, go ahead, be worried, but that we want to workith the government to do this well. >> seems worse ater the fact.

neil: very understanding. >> i'm understanding, bu i'm trying to >> understanding to a degree. i don't like tha it's worse after the fact. the news comes out, and it's worse. neil: next's week's team is blaming the irs also. >> no fly balls, hit it on the ground. neil: in the meantime, gobble up, pay up. how washington wants a bitefrom how washington wants a bitefrom your wallet for every bite you at od, whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in with premiumerce like one of the best on-time delivery records and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business. od. helpg the world keep promises.

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neil: that's going to cost him because in washington, taxes on

home or loan pay down the entire national debt. a new government sponsored study showing a calorie tax helps cure the obesity crisis to resolve our financial crisis. now, an agriculture departme official is agreeing. they are calling this a fat tax. the attorney says fat chance. ashely, what do you think? if you tax food based on its calories or by some extent how bad it is for you, you make a killing, and you can stop bad behavior, make the government so money, just lik cigarettes, what do you think? >> right. well, the last thing we need is more taxes so this is just a bad idea all around. you can't tax someone to force them into good behavior. it didn't work with cigarettes or alcohol. neil: they argue with cigarettes it did. i agree with you, but they argue that, you know, smoking is ay down, and we've madd it so

prohibitive for smokers hat look at how life has changed. >> you know, though, i don't agree with that because if you look at the socioeconomic classes of smokers, it's ot the rich people necessarily the majority ofsmokers, and so i disagree that te tax has anything to do with that. i think education had something to do with that educating the people how horrible cigarettes were for us, nd we sort of had public osarrizin of mokers not allowed to smoke in airpts or eating establishments with food served, things like that kneel noel i didn't think of that. good point. be careful what you start with here because what goes with forbidding smoking or making it more costly leads to prohilting in establishments. i could actually be arrested for ti a twinkie at the corner of 48th and 6th, which i've done many times, by the way. that'sn interesting extension of that. >> right. it's free choice. i think it's free choic what

you decide to put into your body is your free choice in the il: the smoking thing is different in this casse, that that could, secondhan smoke is dangerous, all that, and'm not hurting anyone outside of my myselfeating all of this bad stuff. they might be offended by how i eat. i te to be a sloppy eater, but that's not compromising hair health. what do you think of that? >> right, definitely. there's a flp side. if we tax calories, we hurt people who a doing the right things, some athletes, i run some distance races in the past, and i had to consu more calories. why should the people doing a healthy activy be punished with t calorie tax? neil: the problem as well is what you start taxing, you don't stop taxing, and cigarette smokers found out when fewer of them appeared, the tax all the more on those still smoking so

it's, you know, it has an unending nature to it. where's all this going? >> i think it starts at home what we should do is there should be more education and parents should teach children how to eat healthy because the study was based on childhood obesy, a horrible epidemic, but the more education we have, then the better off we're going to be and able to make beter food choice, and maybe we ought to help the farmers so that fresh fruits and vegetablee are easily available, readily available, and less expensive than taing oth types of food that we don't want people to eat. encucialg good eating, but discourage bad eatng, but not with taxes. neil: very good. thank you very much. >> tha you. neil: short, sweet, and ends silent. silent for now, why lois lerner may break her silence soon beuse of this. ♪ ♪ >> i have not with fidelity's options platform, wee completely integrated every step of the process,

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brushing for two minut, can save your child from severe tooth pain later. two minutes twice a day. they have the time. ♪ neil: lo iring's s, please see us. still not talking, but use republiians want tobe sure she does dragging her back to capitol hill again to get her to talk a little longer, again. the house ove voting today to do just that. congresswoman, many of your colleagues argue, some of your democratic ones as well, tat she did leave herself open to this because with that introduion statement of her, she took all that pleding the

5th onsense away. is that your take as well? >> that is my take. she said she broke no laws, didn't do anything wrong, that shdidn't violate irs rules and regulations,and that sh did not provide false testimony to congress, and thn she invoked her 5th amendment ight. we have believe she waived her fifth amendment right against self-incrimination when she made those assertions. it's to the extempt of what the did say. we have the right to cross-examine her. neil: have you heard back from her? >> we have not, but we did pass a resolution today saying that we believe that she waived her rights, and now-- neil: what if she sa no? >> if she says no and, again, comes in and invokes her riht against self-incrimination, then we'll have to make a decisi about wheeher to hold her in contempt or not. neil: what if she says she's not coming at all to invoke the right, been there, done that,

not doing it again. >> well, then i believe we have the option to explore whether or not to hold her in con temperature. if held in contempt by the committee, it goes to the vote in the hous of representatives, then a u.s. attorney who then takesmatters to a grand jury. plenty of legal rights still to come. neil: n you update me on the lab rail groups targeted as well? hearing there's not that many group, and they might not have been trgeted to the dgree certainly conservative one wrs. what do you know about it? how g was it? >> we don't know the extent of hog it was yet, and at's why we want to talk to more people from the irs who were involved in making the decision about these be on the lookout memos that were sent around within the agency saying, hey, be on the lookout for people who have tea party or patrot -- neil: way about th liberal ones

with the words "occupy" o "keystone" in the name? were they -- >> occupy? neil: was that any of tm or justa ruse, what? >> wedon't know yet, but there's taeting of conservative group, and whether or not there was targeting of liberal groups we have to know because as you know, neil, the page is turned on this. you can have a conservative administration go after a liberal group or vice versa if we allow the irs to run amuck. neil: that's the bigger point, isn't it? whether this turns out to be truer not, that liberals were targeted even to the degree, it's not what the irs should be doing. >> targeting is targeting. liberals, conservatives or somes other way out group. that's not the point. the point is do they deserve tax exempt status and whe do they deserve it? in a timely manner, at least a

decision when they deserve it should be made in the timely manner so they can appeal that decision. neilcongresswoman, thank you. >> you're welcome. neil: skinny jeans, fat controversy, the war over slim jeans that could change my weekend wear forever.

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ne: the drama over den anyone. the european union dramatically increasing a tariff on american skinny jeans. i'm not talking big baggy mom jeans up to your chin, my weekend wear, by the way, but ans tapered so tight they look lick denim stockings. the california manufacturers behind them are scrambling to deal with that figuring the european forms are perfect for their stuff, other than the french. to the business blitzer on

europe piling on on the blist against america. what do you think? >> it's great as long as you have less competitive industries abroad, but what they are signaling is we want to protect our own industries. skinny jans, if they are catch shes there, they pay whatever it takes to loo good. neil: al, i didn't know about skinny jeans, i wonder why, but i -- i wonder as well what the europeans have gainst them, assuming ty make plenty of the same. >> well, this is a retaliatory rike. we raised ariffs, the are raising them back. the whle world is engineered by banks from dropping money from helicopters. the strong dollar makes it harder raising tariffs, this is what happens. it's one thing leads t another. frankly, i'm surprised they fit in them after eating our mcdonald's hamburgers. neil: what's outrageous is the

video bringing me up to date on this issue. i think we have to keep rolling this, guus, extremely slowly, frame by frame to get to he bottom of it, but you say, keith, we're not going to make progress? it goes on and on and on and away for the europeans to nsure they never get there? >> we'veseen this time and time again from the 1920s, 30s, and s. it doesn't matter, agriculture or jeans, doesn't matter. there's high unmployment in europe, costs out of control, and we know from history that protectionism hurts the consumers they try to protect. the arguuent is a very socialist one is who you are informing. are we protecting the manufacturers or the consumers? i don't know the answer to that, but it will continue. neil: i don't know who put this together either, but i'llfind them. in the meantime, nike just doing it in the u.s., but just in the u.s.. anywhere else, not so much the sneaker make r out with good numbers here, nd it'snot exact hippeading out there.

alis the rest of the world nike's achilles heel? what's going on? >> it's hardfor american compans to grow if europe is slowing. well, we got used to that story, but china is slowing. where are they going to sell? well, the answer is in the u.s., there's a boom going on here, and hopefully that lats. i don't know how long the american economy can continue to, you know, turn out healthy consumers whe you know, the company's can't grow, so i don't know. i think nike had a pretty good report, but, you know, i think the stock is reacting to the fact that there's a lot of uncertainty. neil: always the same old thing wiwith the companies. they got cautionary warnings; right? nike's to be taken seriously with great reserve, what? >> you know, i think nike gets a big fat timeout here. u know, the fact of the matter is that they've en there, they've done that, not just doing it anymore, and the coetition in china, i think, is the real issue, it's not that

sales are slowing, but chinese brands make serious imacts into otherwise fickle consumer base, and i think it's only natural, unfortunately, they are caught in the middle of this. neil: hated the advertising campaign, "just do it," i will, i will when i feel like it. as we get to our third issue here, no need to walk to the bank when the bank is in your pocket. go bank is the first one designed to be used on mobile devices. here's the twist, only mobile devices, no such physical structure to gto. it's a bank game changer,is it? >> i hate the word "game changer" because then yyu wder what the game s. neil: sodo i. >> me too. neil: do you think it's a game changer? >> i remember the first internet bank. i don't know what it was, but -- neil: ing; right? >> it was a game changer. if they succeed, everybody knocks them off, and it's not a game changer, but a new game. i like the company.

i get press releases from them and there's research and surveys, and they are a clever bank the idea people pay what they want, 0-9, see lounge that lasts, you know. they say, yeah, we work for tips. i don't know what banker works for tips. [laughter] neil: keith, to the point that you can offer people aybe even jeans you can order online, but that you can really drastically reduce your costs if you don't have much of a physical structure that costs >> right? >> well, you know, that's a great idea -- sorry, al. there's a great idea in here making people pay what they want to pay, but this remind me an awful lot of what happened in napster whn it was legit. it's a consumer base, free banking clients are not the multimillion dollar clients banks want. it's easy to move from one free offering to the next. i wonder if it's ver

profitable. neil: the mobile device botching a blackberry come back. shares falling as much as 26% today after the company's first quarter earnings really missed the mark. al, what do you think of this? >> a big disappointment. you kno i have a column bck in february about how they are coming out with new phones, a cool phone, but it was way late to the markets, and then, you know, after they announced it, and, you know, sent it off, they were not sending it off here, you ow, basically, they are getting clocked. they were clocked byaple, now apple clcked by samsung, and improvements seen in the technology are so incrental, nobody has to run out, wait in line, you know, for a new phone so this doesn't surprise me at all. i think blackberry's they are going to be in trouble. neil: what i do noticein the cas, keith, is how quickly the leads changes like the american league east in baseball, boston, baltimore, the yankees, but it's

th tight. don't assume it's your birthright to stay on top. blackberry used to own it. apple came in, and now, y kn, samsung with the array of phone products is a reat. my point is that, you know, blink, like the wether, this too shall change. >> well, this s like eastern airlines, palm cmputing. remember those? the first end of the market doesn't necessarily survive. it's easier to become number one than to stay number one. blackberry's extension, and th are the only ones who don't know it. neil: really? you think this is it? >> i do. it's a company in te death throes controlling less than 5% of the market, droid took over the market. ifou don't see guys controlling the toys and stereos withnything else with a blackberry, but apple and samsungs. that's the center of the universe and existence for 20-30 years, and blackberry's not there. neil: guys, thank you both very much. >> thank you, neil. neil: from the nba t jay-z,

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neil: could i see that graphic agai guys? ♪ neil: says it all. the g.o.p. pressing the nba and nfl to think twice on promoting the health care law. so bad nw we have special graphs assigned to itthat are

expaing. the digital health records, huge and expensive part of the law, found to be ridled with errors, ann in the rush to conform to the law, the errors have absolutely resulted now in the death of some patients. that is the reason amon many for everyone to run away from this, including those famous athletes. doctor, it's ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. >> run and run faster. i can't believe, neil, they are trying to recruit the nba and the nfl to put their names against something that's comptely hollow. what do they want them to sell? there's no insurance exchanges up, nd people have o clue in terms of what they are going to sign up for, and i find it hard toelieve they are trying to recruit such famous people orto. it's a ridiculous effort to --

neil: i see the method in the madness. you want to seek out young people, and young people watch football, young people watch basketbbllect., so youe see if by seeing wonderfulceand things about the health care law,hey sign up. we need young people to sign up, you know, to pay for the older americans who are leaving the work foce and rally responsible for much of the costs of health care. >> well, if any of the basketball players like ob, kobe bryant understands the health insurance law to sell it to somebody, i want them to sign up too. neil: i think he's not awarof it, but he'll say, for all i know, there's a health care law insignia they might have patcd on to the sures, whatever, and that's it. kobe lis it, i should like i, i should sign up for it. >> that's the target audience they got to go after. you're right. they have to focus on the younger audience betting on the

fact the younger folks will sign up for the insurance, and they probably don't need, probably can't afford, to make up for the losses that are going to be incurredded because the insurance copanies need to cover everybody else. neil: all right, if they can do that, they have -- the simple math works against them in the hope they had by now to cover everne with preexng conditions and cover all americans, period, you need young people signing up to support this. >>yeah. neil: and they are not. furtrmore studies show they are not eager to, and add to that the fact tt a lot of poor ericans don't think they ca and won't and the or ensuredded coletely don't think this is worth their while. what the hell did we have the health care sysm to do this? >> with the hope we get to a single payer system because this fails, i think. kneel they'll there was a goal to do just that?

we might get that? >>e might by defaault, and we have talked about this. remember even sitting on, y know, the rooftop of the museum as the law was eing passed. neil: i remember. >> and, yeah, hat may ultimately be ere it's going, but you mentioned, u know, the whole failure with the electronic medical records, and look at the undreds of millis oo dollars that have been spent. hhs just releed a report to congress this month about the adoption. the adoptionrates look promising in terms of the number of doctors and hositals that are complying, but when you look at the numbers you just talked about on theflip side of the disasters that are happening, either because the syst are clunking, because peple don't derstand the technology and they are making mistas, and within the report, and i'vgot props here, the biger problem is that right now, the obama administration is implemented a

system that sort of looks like this. it's a mihmash of sstems that came together that don't connect. neil: what is that? >> it's legos that sack upon each other that don't connect. the i want system we goat to is this. remember the tinker toys? they don't make them anymore i don't thinkbut we create a connected system where information flows and information's accessible, but guess what? the epics of the world have made a killing in terms of selling their systems, b the problem is nobody'swilling to give up the data. every -- we built the thiefdomshere the don communicate. neil: i don't know what concerns me more, the health care law or the toys you brought ith you. good seeing you, very well plained. >> thank you very much, neil, good to see you. neil: from hacking back to lawyering up, still laughing, china? with the spark mes card fromapital one,

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neil: i just show the graphic we're not forgetting health care because we move on to another segment. show that one more time to show you -- ♪ the end of the health care isis, and if it gets morehan that and a le and death thing, it moves on. just so you know. anyway, this is what i call fighting fire with fire, bringing out the lawyers and filing suit after suit, and it is true, and china's going to find out fast and the hard way. you keep hacking, we keep suing. i find all this tif for taft refreshing because a week after we vowed to hack back, we are lawyering up. wh do you think? >>how amcan can you get? if we don't get our wa we su the pants off them. neil: what are they going to do? >> my opinion is you got as much

chance collecting as many chinese companies as you do from tony soprano. you can sue and sue and sue, good lucwith the money. neil: especially now. liz? >> i agree. ththing is, we can't sue them. the government -- nobody in congress has the wherewithall or gumption to do it because they are sitting foreign reserve equal to the size of germany. we are panicked about the fact they own so much of our debt and angering them over hagging. yeahthat's a problem. you know, th hacking issue is a probm. 250 billion loss in intellectual property out of the u.s., 5 lot stolen by china because china has no soft economic power, no name brands they are interested in. that's why they are stealing ur stuff. neil: adam, the only alternative is if they wte time witthe lawyers, just continue to hack, hack back, iothe words, do what you do, ut in space, what do you think? >> it's rare, but idisagree with rare, but icompletely disagreeith what shesaid. we suld su, hack back, w

should pursue deploam sigh, we should per sue military, you know, mac hcking options, everything we have to defend ourself. i'm not the least be concerned or feel that we should be concerned about goingafter the chinese. i mean, we've got thir moey, not the other way around. you know, if -- are we cocerned they will repatriot every investment in our money? i don't think so. neil: they can do what they've been doing, stop additional buying, and we seem to survive at well. you might have a point. >> well, ann on thecontrary, someone did a story this week about how the cinese are buying trophy properties in thenited states the same way the japanese did in the 1980s. this is just thehe beginning. they want to invest in the united states, and we're going to tell the essentially, if you invest in the united states, we have the legal system here, and if you break our laws, we e you. >> i ear th. i he your poits. listen, i'm not saying no to

suits, but wt i said was i don't think anybody in congress would do it. by the way, a lot of foreign investors are running away from the 30-year bond, and so that you see that yields gyrating. china is saying, wait a seco, we may not buy anymore .s. debt. neil: if the are stupid to buy $95 million pent house in central park, have at it. >> do you think the chinese stop haing because of the lawsuits against the? neil: in all ces, the point is, have to get tougher. what we have to ralize, and i know it's like onald trump here without being so blunt. they need us as much if not more than we need them. how do you get the point across whatever they do, continuing to do this is not this their interest? >> you have to ight, instigate lawsui, show dtracted employee my, and talk tough.

do you think the chinese stop hacking? no, they are not. the bi -- neil: we just hack in space. >> biggest defense -- >> i disagree. >> protect wrg and then, you know -- neil: why do you disagree, adam? >> because there's two aspects to this, commercial and military. neil: they hack both. they are hacking both. >> right. that's why you have to -- you use a crude mtaphor. you have to get in their face at every opportunity. neil: wait, white, wait, wait, wait, woah, if issadam saying, "in your ace,"and this is what a gentleman you are, adam. >> i try, neil, you know i try. neil: that's me in the morning, and i elevate from there. >> wetred to get in their face in two decades. they don't respect us. treat it like, you know, get out of here. it's like the same ssue with us saying, hey, opec is a cartel,

and we have not done anything about opec being a cartel and fixing prices in the oil market. i don't think a lawsuit has impact whatsoever. they are just going to break it off. >> they are not breaking laws in the united states. we have a good marketplace here and the chinese clearly want to be a part of it. neil: i don't know. they ar go nowhere. here's what i worry bout because i want you to be aware what a crisis this is ongoing, switching gears back to this. ♪ youknow, the guys here slip in special graphics, and i don't appreciate the hard work they do to get that out there, but we can see that again, time and energy wept into this. ♪ that is the goofyist graphic i've ever seen mocking the crisis that's out of control, but it may be pieces of the said crisis. what do you think of how this is getting out of control? you're hinting at not the graphic, but there's reports of

more abuses, reports hitting up the nba, the nfl, riht after, weeks after hittingup companies, private companies to pay for promoting it. it's out of control. out of control. worse than our graphic. what say you? no further comment on that. neil: are you a lawyer? >> not in the least. neil: good thing. adam, wha do you think? >> if don't have to -- this is the effort to give 220-30 millin more americans access t health insurance, is that what you refer to, neil? neil: many who don't even want it which is odd that we up ended everythinfor them, and they don't wa it. isn't that weird? by the way, that ncessitates the dramatic graphic development. take a look [laughter] ♪ neil: ru a crawl there, people who got it, don't want it. >> health care, the reform, yeah, we wanted help insure what adam is saying, but its about

to explode on the launch pad. ybe the graphic is about to explode too. neil: like a launch pad mobile devices tiff. >> the graphic designers do a fine j. they work hard, it's an excellent graphic. neil: this one, guy, weigh this, look at the graphic again. i'm not a fan. ♪ i don't think it says battle to me. i don't think it says this crisis and on te brink fear that ifer enough. ♪ >> it's just a red asterisk. neil you'll get kicked in the asterisk, good point. time thoughts? >> on thacking the chinese, try to get isurance rather than giving up. neil: getting in everybody's face, getting crude. >> trying. neil: i'm told thatall graphics are being removed from the neil cavuto sow as is any mention of neil cavuto period.

that'll do it. remember if it's a crisis -- now that's a threat. that one's a threat. see that! the flag, end o the worl have a great weekend. more mones of the jobs numbers agree. ♪ melia: i'm melissa francis, and here's whas "money" tonight. a wave of the stes are looking to slap guns and ammo with special taxes. just gun-control in disguise. plusthe first-ever bank that does not have any banks. it turns all mobile banking into reality. will the breakthrough in technology put your money at risk and who me "money" today? investors are gorging on one of the splest foods out there and making a killing on it. keep watching to find that it is even when they say it is not, it is always about "money." ♪